Do BPD sufferers ever snag an "alpha male"?

[Infern0]

It seems like virtually everyone who gets hoodwinked either has hero complex, nice guy complex, unresolved issues etc.

I can't see a guy who is strong in his core, respects himself,  is self sufficient,  has options etc getting drawn in?

Even in my own case I was snagged on the back of a very bad year which had broken me down.  Oddly meeting her during idealisation gave me my strength back, and when I began upgrading myself from the mess she met,  she flipped out and couldn't handle it.  When she was flaking out on me and I started to get other options she could not handle it, I'd tell her she was number 1, and just had to commit and I'd ditch the orbiters, but obviously that was an issue.

It's weird because I thought she'd be proud of me for getting fitter and looking after myself and looking better etc, but she hated it, when she friendzone me and I slept with one of my new orbiters she found out and went nuclear even though we were "friends" and she was sleeping with the replacement.

People praising me were met with sneers of derision and she tried so hard to rebreak me until I walked away completely.

But just seems to be they can't take it.

[rg1976]

Something very similar to this happened to me. Apparently, the dudes she had in her past were tightly controlled due to their dependence on her financially, etc.

I had plenty of options, but she seemed like a really sweet girl at first, with some problems that I thought I could handle. As it turned out, me having options and women to talk to and go out with when she was giving me the silent was thrown back in my face. She just couldn't handle the fact I wasn't "trapped". I supposed she couldn't believe anyone could ever really want her.

Oh well, I still hope she can deal with her issues. But I'm not holding my breath...

[Infern0]

Something very similar to this happened to me. Apparently, the dudes she had in her past were tightly controlled due to their dependence on her financially, etc.

I had plenty of options, but she seemed like a really sweet girl at first, with some problems that I thought I could handle. As it turned out, me having options and women to talk to and go out with when she was giving me the silent was thrown back in my face. She just couldn't handle the fact I wasn't "trapped". I supposed she couldn't believe anyone could ever really want her.

Oh well, I still hope she can deal with her issues. But I'm not holding my breath...

Same, I think what truly saved my ass was that I had a bit of game, she hadn't committed so I explored other options, gave HER the silent treatment when she flaked on me etc, general stuff that will usually make someone normal think "well if I want him time to stop playing games" She even bought my replacement to see me (I didn't know he was a threat and thought she was just trying to make me jealous) so I just walked up and gave him the vice grip handshake and looked him in his beady eyes with a smile on my face and told them to bugger off because I had someone coming to meet me, they both walked out humiliated.

Looking back there are a few things I can be proud of in how I handled myself during all the chaos. As broken as I was i don't think I ever lost my core, I never begged and I did stand up to her.  I take some strength from that

[Turkish]

It seems like virtually everyone who gets hoodwinked either has hero complex, nice guy complex, unresolved issues etc.

I can't see a guy who is strong in his core, respects himself,  is self sufficient,  has options etc getting drawn in?

I was definitely the other things, except which that I highlighted. I drew my value to women as being that which I could provide for them. Enter enabling, co-dependent behaviors, and covert contracts (I just bought you an expensive SUV, how could you cheat on me, and why aren't you treating me better?).

I've concluded that no one who truly values themselves could stay with her. I stayed with her 3x  longer than any previous bf, and had two kids to boot. That says more about me than her.

A past bf she idealized fit the defintion of an alpha male. Perhaps my replacement, too. Athelete. Bouncer. Both exhibit strong narcissistic traits. I'm not, but on paper, I'm the alpha compared to them, though I don't feel like it.

It's about emotion, not logic. Feelings are facts to a pwBPD.

[Fluff]

I suspect a non-rescuer kind of person could be interesting for them if they themselves can rescue that person. Preferably it would be two people who can try to rescue each other.

[Rise]

I think there's a difference between someone having an "alpha" personality, and someone having healthy personal boundaries, and a strong, positive sense of self. I think that's really what keeps someone from getting so wrapped up in a bad relationship. It's not how you deal with other people (which is what, at least in my mind, being an alpha male is about), it's about your relationship with yourself.

[Blimblam]

The alpha male is a psychopath. Yes they snag psychopaths and get treated like ___ by them. The psychopaths don't end up getting hurt like we do.

[SC91]

Interesting two borderline I met tried to put me on the "I need to be taken care of" position where they seem saw themselves as rescuer. Perhaps they project their ideal child image onto me. I obviously sense something not quite right with their vibes right from the beginning but have to confess the adoration and endless validation were so tempting to resist. Basically my co dependency issues and lack of validation from family trapped me in.

Months into the relationship my intelligence n guts feeling told me this is not a heavy relationship. Becos the BPD endless validation (by talk talk talk) lift up my ego to such a degree that can be a dangerous narcissist mentality. While my ego was boast in dreamland (spirituality?) I found my real daily life quality and career deteriorate. On comparison I found my friends were improving themselves well in real world matters. I wasnt satisfied becos I saw myself wasting time, with little self development. Needless to say, the broke up was difficult and trauma becos the BPD withdraw their validation within a matter of seconds. No self development in the actual BPD relationship, but real growth happens only after the break up.

Yes I agree much to the above poster of "I think there's a difference between someone having an "alpha" personality, and someone having healthy personal boundaries, and a strong, positive sense of self.". A sociopath would care less anyway. A true heavy person would care yet still keeping its core values and strong boundary.

[goldylamont]

It seems like virtually everyone who gets hoodwinked either has hero complex, nice guy complex, unresolved issues etc.

I can't see a guy who is strong in his core, respects himself,  is self sufficient,  has options etc getting drawn in?

i think the person who is independent, with self respect, options and such can get drawn in. i feel i have these qualities, but i got drawn in. i think it was just ignorance on my part. and also projection on my part perhaps... .me thinking that she wasn't lying or capable of leading a double life. also this probably depends on how high functioning the pwBPD is. my ex was high functioning, everyone that meets her is charmed by her in some way (or wants her in some way). she isn't attention seeking at all (at least not around me), just really warm and down to earth. that, plus my perception that she was extremely loyal (quite the opposite it turns out) is what pulled me in. there were many times where i was pushed to my limits in the r/s. and i initiated both breakups (was also the one to initiate being together as well). during our r/s i think i continued to grow in work, my art projects, stayed healthy and such.

all of this is to say i think there's a perception out there that a 'healthy' person as you describe somehow being able to do voodoo and never fall for this type of person. i don't think this is the case. i've dated other women who could have had some sort of PD, and if i stayed long enough i'm sure i would have walked away if they started acting crazy. but really i wasn't that invested in them to begin with. i think i would have drifted off even if they were nice and friendly, i enjoyed their company but wasn't in love.

another thing i notice is simply how most people don't even know what a PD entails or how it can play out. i know some good guys that i think are emotionally healthy. but i think they'd fall for it just like anyone else, for the simple fact that they can't understand or wouldn't believe the stories about someone with BPD. i mean, haven't you all talked to some people about BPD and then are met with a wall of doubt from them? these people could easily be fooled by a BPD, even if they were 'healthy' themselves they're still in the dark to the reality of the situation.

overall i think being healthy doesn't make you immune from finding yourself in these r/s, rather it has a bigger influence of how you behave while in the r/s and how much you put up with before leaving.

[woofhound]

Excellent post.

This was very similar to my experience. I was dealing with issues that she "helped" me with, but after I began to heal she would continually remind me of the problem. It seemed as if she still needed me to be weak so that she could be a "healer". I've noticed this behavior with nearly everyone in her life. All of the people that she has befriended have issues; alcoholism, domestic abuse, drug addiction, etc. All of whom she talks about "helping"... .The thing is though, she isn't helping anyone. She is enabling them, thus helping to perpetuate their issues. She validates peoples incorrect assumptions about themselves. I believe she does this for two reasons: 1.To get validation for her own inadequacies in return AND 2.To allow herself to remain seen as a "healer".

It's weird. At times she has admitted to me that she knows she isn't really trying to help these people. "I know "so and so" can't be helped. She is just f*d up, and there is no fixing f*d up." She said that to me once about her alcoholic friend. Its all part of her ego delusion.

As for the question at hand:

As I learn to improve myself, I also learn to avoid potentially codependent women. I've been on a few dates, and I have come to a state of vigilance concerning red flags. I've come to realize that, since i'm ok being single, there is no reason to ignore red flags. Yes, it is possible for an alpha to be drawn in, but i would imagine it is far less common than our typical "nice guy"/"white knight".

[SC91]

i think the person who is independent, with self respect, options and such can get drawn in. i feel i have these qualities, but i got drawn in. i think it was just ignorance on my part. and also projection on my part perhaps... .me thinking that she wasn't lying or capable of leading a double life. also this probably depends on how high functioning the pwBPD is. my ex was high functioning, everyone that meets her is charmed by her in some way (or wants her in some way). she isn't attention seeking at all (at least not around me), just really warm and down to earth. that, plus my perception that she was extremely loyal (quite the opposite it turns out) is what pulled me in. there were many times where i was pushed to my limits in the r/s. and i initiated both breakups (was also the one to initiate being together as well). during our r/s i think i continued to grow in work, my art projects, stayed healthy and such.

all of this is to say i think there's a perception out there that a 'healthy' person as you describe somehow being able to do voodoo and never fall for this type of person. i don't think this is the case. i've dated other women who could have had some sort of PD, and if i stayed long enough i'm sure i would have walked away if they started acting crazy. but really i wasn't that invested in them to begin with. i think i would have drifted off even if they were nice and friendly, i enjoyed their company but wasn't in love.

another thing i notice is simply how most people don't even know what a PD entails or how it can play out. i know some good guys that i think are emotionally healthy. but i think they'd fall for it just like anyone else, for the simple fact that they can't understand or wouldn't believe the stories about someone with BPD. i mean, haven't you all talked to some people about BPD and then are met with a wall of doubt from them? these people could easily be fooled by a BPD, even if they were 'healthy' themselves they're still in the dark to the reality of the situation.

overall i think being healthy doesn't make you immune from finding yourself in these r/s, rather it has a bigger influence of how you behave while in the r/s and how much you put up with before leaving.

I can relate to this. One of my ex is a very independent, kind, wise person with good heart and strong boundary. There are few people in my life I truly admire, and my ex is one. But hey, I think my ex falls into a BPD now. I met Ex's current partner last year. As an empath I have this intuition and can sense the vibes not quite right. My ex also look tired, lossing energy and spoke less. During dinner my ex current partner showed great interest in me, ignorant me ex, and subtly deliver some flirt message, eye sights to me in front of my ex! The usual triangulation stuff, attempting to provoke some jealousy, making enemy between myself and my ex. Whenever the partner ultimate goal was getting my interest or doing things to prevent me going back to ex (BPD is insecure as everyone knows, but I know my ex is a loyal person). All these stupid game. I observe my ex reaction, who tried to mentally detach from the scene.

Few weeks later, I had phone conversation with my ex. Ex asked some weird questions (something we normally talk about). I have a feeling that the Partner was somewhere around the telephone pushing Ex to ask some weird questions. Nevertheless at the end of conversation I did advise my Ex to keep contact with some good friends (Ex hardly contact friends since their relationship started). I quite worry about Ex, all those red flags are so obvious. Nevertheless as said, Ex is quite good in converting negative emotions into positive. With the wisdom I believe Ex could handle the BPD much better than I do.

[Bak86]

It seems like virtually everyone who gets hoodwinked either has hero complex, nice guy complex, unresolved issues etc.

I can't see a guy who is strong in his core, respects himself,  is self sufficient,  has options etc getting drawn in?

i think the person who is independent, with self respect, options and such can get drawn in. i feel i have these qualities, but i got drawn in. i think it was just ignorance on my part. and also projection on my part perhaps... .me thinking that she wasn't lying or capable of leading a double life. also this probably depends on how high functioning the pwBPD is. my ex was high functioning, everyone that meets her is charmed by her in some way (or wants her in some way). she isn't attention seeking at all (at least not around me), just really warm and down to earth. that, plus my perception that she was extremely loyal (quite the opposite it turns out) is what pulled me in. there were many times where i was pushed to my limits in the r/s. and i initiated both breakups (was also the one to initiate being together as well). during our r/s i think i continued to grow in work, my art projects, stayed healthy and such.

all of this is to say i think there's a perception out there that a 'healthy' person as you describe somehow being able to do voodoo and never fall for this type of person. i don't think this is the case. i've dated other women who could have had some sort of PD, and if i stayed long enough i'm sure i would have walked away if they started acting crazy. but really i wasn't that invested in them to begin with. i think i would have drifted off even if they were nice and friendly, i enjoyed their company but wasn't in love.

another thing i notice is simply how most people don't even know what a PD entails or how it can play out. i know some good guys that i think are emotionally healthy. but i think they'd fall for it just like anyone else, for the simple fact that they can't understand or wouldn't believe the stories about someone with BPD. i mean, haven't you all talked to some people about BPD and then are met with a wall of doubt from them? these people could easily be fooled by a BPD, even if they were 'healthy' themselves they're still in the dark to the reality of the situation.

overall i think being healthy doesn't make you immune from finding yourself in these r/s, rather it has a bigger influence of how you behave while in the r/s and how much you put up with before leaving.

i agree with this. i'm a healthy person myself. i'm very independent and i have a lot of self respect, however you just get sucked in with these kind of relationships. they just feel so good in the beginning, after a while they try to tear down your self esteem and that worked with me. I became a person i didn't know. Now after 3 months i'm slowly beginning to be the person i used to be.

[Dutched]

It seems like virtually everyone who gets hoodwinked either has hero complex, nice guy complex, unresolved issues etc.

I can't see a guy who is strong in his core, respects himself,  is self sufficient,  has options etc getting drawn in?

i think the person who is independent, with self respect, options and such can get drawn in. i feel i have these qualities, but i got drawn in. i think it was just ignorance on my part. and also projection on my part perhaps... .me thinking that she wasn't lying or capable of leading a double life. also this probably depends on how high functioning the pwBPD is. my ex was high functioning, everyone that meets her is charmed by her in some way (or wants her in some way). she isn't attention seeking at all (at least not around me), just really warm and down to earth. that, plus my perception that she was extremely loyal (quite the opposite it turns out) is what pulled me in. there were many times where i was pushed to my limits in the r/s. and i initiated both breakups (was also the one to initiate being together as well). during our r/s i think i continued to grow in work, my art projects, stayed healthy and such.

all of this is to say i think there's a perception out there that a 'healthy' person as you describe somehow being able to do voodoo and never fall for this type of person. i don't think this is the case. i've dated other women who could have had some sort of PD, and if i stayed long enough i'm sure i would have walked away if they started acting crazy. but really i wasn't that invested in them to begin with. i think i would have drifted off even if they were nice and friendly, i enjoyed their company but wasn't in love.

another thing i notice is simply how most people don't even know what a PD entails or how it can play out. i know some good guys that i think are emotionally healthy. but i think they'd fall for it just like anyone else, for the simple fact that they can't understand or wouldn't believe the stories about someone with BPD. i mean, haven't you all talked to some people about BPD and then are met with a wall of doubt from them? these people could easily be fooled by a BPD, even if they were 'healthy' themselves they're still in the dark to the reality of the situation.

overall i think being healthy doesn't make you immune from finding yourself in these r/s, rather it has a bigger influence of how you behave while in the r/s and how much you put up with before leaving.

i agree with this. i'm a healthy person myself. i'm very independent and i have a lot of self respect, however you just get sucked in with these kind of relationships. they just feel so good in the beginning, after a while they try to tear down your self esteem and that worked with me. I became a person i didn't know. Now after 3 months i'm slowly beginning to be the person i used to be.

Yep!

Referring to Rise and Goldylamont I agree it is our relationship with ourselves and what are we willing to accept.

I don’t think we necessarily have issues therefore are snagged in.

I understand the question, the longing for answers, however IMO it is an interaction between 2 people of which 1 has an disorder or traits of an disorder.

That is the unhealthy part in which our willingness is tested (and for some, indeed an inner child awakens).

As Goldylamont mentioned I also agree about the BPD spectrum of the ex partner. As known it can be low/severe up to high and in a way dormant for a long(er) time.

In my younger days… as an 20/21 yr old “psychological ignorant” I got involved with a girl who showed complete normal behaviour. Later, still complete ignorant , I have overseen 1 red flag, her uncontrollable outburst, subsequently leaving her parents and cutting all ties for years.

Ignorant, and sucked in? No.  Some kind of issues then?

I had long discussions about it with my psychologist and wanted a kind of “evidence” backed up by some tests. I am a balanced person, have self respect, clear opinions, expressing my needs / expectations, etc. and with healthy boundaries.

I add my own believes, morality, values, AND responsibility towards kids and to keep the family intact just in an old fashioned way, as one needs to put effort in every relationship to sustain, however ex…  (well history).

About Alpha equals a sociopath.

Certainly not the best explanation I give, just trying.

Alphas can/give love, but chooses (under circumstances) to ignore feelings of others, Sociopaths don’t love or give love, their brains are wired to ignore, the switch is on automatic “no feeling”.

[zenwexler]

Great post. Prior to meeting my ex I would have described myself as alpha. But she broke me down. A lot of our struggles came from me being alpha. Her roommate told me that I was one of her only bfs to actually take a stand. So in a way my alphaness hurt out relationship even though she would say she wants a mans man. It's interesting because when she broke up with me I threw out the alpha and would have pretty much done whatever she wanted. Big lets be honest. Even during the relationship when I would take a stand I would eventually give in to all her demands. I mean when a four year old is freaking out throwing a tantrum you eventually give in and get them Ice cream.

It's funny. Since we broke up she became so smug and condescending. Like I was some fool and she was gods gift. Like she was doing me a favor by blessing me with her presence

[Penumbra66]

I have been referred to as an Alpha, primarily because I have been working out for years and look and sound intimidating. I also do martial arts, more as a form of being in the moment and meditating. My internal reality however, is far, far different. I've been struggling professionally since graduate school a few years back, and I think I've had a low level of depression for the past five years. I might not look like it, but I feel like a really old, tired soul sometimes. I definitely have codependent tendencies, which I think is really the opposite of the typical Alpha.

My uBPD was in heaven, because here's this reasonably tough-looking, smart, academic-type guy that she always referred to as an Alpha, but weak enough to get sucked into her BS and her need to be "saved." And even at my age, naïve enough to not realize how truly manipulative she really was. I'd been taken to the cleaners by another woman 10 or 15 years ago, so I thought I knew better. Apparently not.

Signed,

Alpha-looking Beta Male

[camuse]

I was/am alpha if you like but she picked her moment carefully then broke me down over many months. Its hard now to believe what I ended up standing for. Frightening. In a way I kept it going by standing up to her, and finishing it several times. But she was always able to recycle until ready to leave. We all have weaknesses and they are masters at finding the weak point and attacking it at the right moment. Never again

[AG]

I was/am alpha if you like but she picked her moment carefully then broke me down over many months. Its hard now to believe what I ended up standing for. Frightening. In a way I kept it going by standing up to her, and finishing it several times. But she was always able to recycle until ready to leave. We all have weaknesses and they are masters at finding the weak point and attacking it at the right moment. Never again

I dont like the term Alpha Male we are far more advanced then a wolf is but I get where the person who started the thread is getting at. I consistently had to keep putting my foot down over and over and over. She had many denials over and over again on outrageous demands. I had some

Strong ass boundaries. It does not matter though if you stay with them from my experience they work round the clock to find ways to break you down. No matter how manly or alpha or dominant you are your not going to stand a chance against something like that because it is unatural. Noone is equipped for another person to be working diligently at finding a weak spot to pick at it. Normal peoples thought process dont work like that. Think about it when you love someone do you sit there thinking of ways to take vengence on them or break theyre guard down until they are weakened or cause drama just to test them over and over and over again? No of course not and since your not used to that type of thinking you will be caught off guard and over time they will weaken you. Does not matter what type of person if your with them for extended periods of time they will find a say to break you simply because they are trying to do so and very hard.

[enlighten me]

I would have considered myself fairly Alpha. Ex soldier, into adventure sports, been there seen it done it type. My exgf tore through me without even breaking a sweat. I did have enough wits about me to finish it though.

I think one of the biggest difficulties she had though is Im fairly laid back. Im a take it or leave it type that's very easy going. I think she hated it as she saw it as me not wanting to make any decisions. That left her in the position that anything she decided on she had to like rather than blame me for it being rubbish.

[Blimblam]

It all goes to show that we are not alpha males we are not psychopaths. The psychopath is an ancient archetype. They do not feel love this they do not feel the pain and suffering we do.  They feel no remorse. They are the apex predator.  Rejoice that you can feel this suffering. It means you can find a love within so bright and endless. It is at the bottom of the abyss shrouded in darkness.