How they miss us...

[Flora73]

So, in my 3 months of RAPID... .education on BPS   I have worked something out... .

So we "Nons" miss someone when things come to an end and then (hopefully) let go over time.

"BPD's" totally forget about you and then over time start to miss you more and more... .

Its the complete opposite to the norm and further illustrates how everything with this illness is upside down.

I know that we are "needs" that sit in boxes on a shelf that they look at from time to time and have a look inside it to see if "we" the contents of the box will fill there need.

However can they... .somehow... .get this the right way around and deal with the sh!te at the end of a relationship and not down the road when we are all starting to cope and move on.

Thoughts? 

[walksoftly]

Hi Flora, where do you get your information? Everything I read relates to object constancy;out of sight out of mind.

Do they really miss us?

[tim_tom]

that is what I am experiencing now, 6 weeks or sheer and utter coldness, a different person. And suddenly today it's like the girl I fell in love with is back

This directly goes against what is published on this site as far as object constancy though, so who knows

[workinprogress]

This makes sense.

They are backward when starting relationships, that is they have sex, then develop a relationship with someone.

So, at the end of the r/s it would make sense for them to discard you, then suddenly want you back.

I think a lot of it has to do with outside influences.

If they are getting attention from someone else, they don't need you.  Once that attention is gone or the other person is devalued, they fall back on you.

[Flora73]

walksoftly

Im getting my info from experience... .

Yes object constancy I agree with, but why do they come back... .

They push us out of there mind in the short term, but the long term is the difficult part... .

Imagine juggling balls for 5 minuets... and then try it for 24 hrs... .the concentration and energy needed to sustain this would be significant.

[willy45]

I think the idea of object constancy is not well understood in these forums. It doesn't mean they forget we exist. From my understanding it has to do more with an emotional understanding of where things are. For example, when you are around and loving, they see that. If you get busy and don't drop everything for them in the moment then they think you don't love them anymore. The object isn't physical. They don't just think we don't exist. Rather, it has to do with the stability of a relationship bond. They don't understand how that bond can still exist unless it is consistently there.  This makes it very difficult to sustain because life means needing to focus on stuff other than a partner. I'm sure we all know how it feels when you aren't there  to meet every single need and how infuriating it is when thy freak out about it. I think that is more what is meant by object constancy. I could be wrong but that is how I read it and why it is so difficult. You have to be willing to put everything in life on hold at all times. And if not, it is met with rage. See how that destroys one's sense of self?

[myself]

We miss them more at first because to us it's a big What the heck and we struggle to make sense of it, while pwBPD run from it/bury it instead of facing it head on. They're more used to the patterns/cycles than we are, too.

I'd tell you how my ex described how she missed me, and also how she made sure she wasn't thinking of me, but her stories changed so much I can't believe them anymore. She missed me in disordered ways.  

If you're scapegoated, you're probably missed the least amount possible.

Or maybe the most. That's a call only the pwBPD can make.

[crookedeuphoria]

I think what willy45 said makes sense. My exbf always thought I "took my love away" (his words) when I was wrapped up with something else or when I was mad at him about something. He couldn't understand that I could be mad (or busy) and still love him.

[Rise]

I think the idea of object constancy is not well understood in these forums. It doesn't mean they forget we exist. From my understanding it has to do more with an emotional understanding of where things are. For example, when you are around and loving, they see that. If you get busy and don't drop everything for them in the moment then they think you don't love them anymore. The object isn't physical. They don't just think we don't exist. Rather, it has to do with the stability of a relationship bond. They don't understand how that bond can still exist unless it is consistently there.  This makes it very difficult to sustain because life means needing to focus on stuff other than a partner. I'm sure we all know how it feels when you aren't there  to meet every single need and how infuriating it is when thy freak out about it. I think that is more what is meant by object constancy. I could be wrong but that is how I read it and why it is so difficult. You have to be willing to put everything in life on hold at all times. And if not, it is met with rage. See how that destroys one's sense of self?

Good points willy. As you said, it's not out of site out of mind. That would be object permanence. Object constancy is recognizing objects (that would be us in this case) under different viewing conditions.

This is a giant simplification (as far as my understanding goes), and as willy pointed out it's pretty complicated, but basically if you get mad at someone you love, you still recognize them as the person you love. A person with BPD struggles with this. They only recognize you as the person causing them to be angry in that moment.

I think this also helps to explain why they don't miss us or our relationship immediately. Their emotions are the driving force in their lives. When things end, they are only experiencing the bad emotions of the moment. So at that time there is nothing good about us (aka we are painted black). They struggle to remember the positive emotions they felt for us. As time passes, so do the negative emotions, and they "forget" the pain of the break up and what led up to it.

[fred6]

walksoftly

Im getting my info from experience... ... .

Yes object constancy I agree with, but why do they come back... ... .

They push us out of there mind in the short term, but the long term is the difficult part... ..

Imagine juggling balls for 5 minuets... and then try it for 24 hrs... .the concentration and energy needed to sustain this would be significant.

This makes sense.

They are backward when starting relationships, that is they have sex, then develop a relationship with someone.

So, at the end of the r/s it would make sense for them to discard you, then suddenly want you back.

I think a lot of it has to do with outside influences.

If they are getting attention from someone else, they don't need you.  Once that attention is gone or the other person is devalued, they fall back on you.

Not all of them come back though. Some of them will always be getting attention from someone else. My exBPDgf for example will probably bounce from guy to guy as a human mattress until she's old and haggard. She actually told me about a month after we started seeing each other, "I'm a Christian and I know what the bible says about sex, but if I want sex I'm going to go to the bar and get sex." Mine never acted like she "needed" attention in the moment, she just seemed like she needed it in the immediate future. If that's the case, she will never be without attention from someone. There is no short supply of horny guys that will give females attention, and attention for my exBPD is sex. Even though according to her during the last half of our relationship, "sex means nothing to her".

[Loveofhislife]

I agree with much of what is in this post. My thinking is we are a "function" not a person. Many talk about how we are "supply." In an NPD context, I believe that. But I have been confounded by pwBPD. Out of sight, out of

mind: yes, not unlike children. For very young children, when we leave, there is separation anxiety--will we ever return? My exbfBPD became angry about his own inability to manage his finances, and I was scapegoated--I, the one who had supported him for a year was no longer willing to perform my "function." When I asked to be repaid, he became angry. I am now synonymous with that angry feeling. And somehow, as their s/O's, we became their triggers. I have seen exbfBPD cut off his oldest child, his father, uncles, and brothers for years. I don't expect an apology, a recycle, or repayment. In every case, with each of those loved ones he cut off; he ranted on about their betrayal of him in light of all he had done for them or all he had given them--especially money: a HUGE trigger for him. Nearly every story was, "And they couldn't even give me a little bit of money." Or with his exw and family, "They only care about money." I'm betting that I'm not the only one he owes a lot of money and a big apology. Instead, it's just easier to go ST and cut us off completely.

[Flora73]

Loveofhislife

Man its a sh!te sandwich no matter how you try and chew it and digest it.

I just worry when the 3yr old gets sick of the new toy and notices DADDY has left the room   

Man I'm angry today... .has taken three fricken months to arrive 

Ps love your posts!

[tim_tom]

re: object constancy. Below is what I was referring too, from this site. Like I said, I do not know what the case is. I know in my experience after 6 weeks, she has momentarily stopped blaming me complete and stop behaving coldly to me. To what end, I do not know. Maybe it's cause I stood my ground on something, or I ignored most of her contact attempts. Maybe she just thinks I hate her and wants to repair that. But something has shifted and it's perplexing as the initial shift, frankly. The only thing I do know is it's about her, and what she's feeling right now. My needs / feelings don't matter anymore today then they did during the relationship

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

We often think that by holding back or depriving our “BPD” partner of “our love” – that they will “see the light”. We base this on all the times our partner expressed how special we were and how incredible the relationship was. Absence may makes the heart grow fonder when a relationship is healthy – but this is often not the case when the relationship is breaking down. People with BPD traits often have object consistency issues – “out of sight is out of mind”. They may feel, after two weeks of separation, the same way you would feel after six. Distancing can also trigger all kinds of abandonment and trust issues for the “BPD” partner (as described in #4). Absence generally makes the heart grow colder.

[Flora73]

Thank you Tim Tom 

Well I spent 3 months validating my exBPDgf trying to break through the thick black tar I had painted on me.

I finally picked myself up off the floor where I lay in front of her door... .where she would wipe her feet.

Now I just project anger at her... .I know not good... .

But I'm finally standing up for myself and not forgiving her behaviour, strangely its causing her to look of the fence and trying re-evaluate her game plan... .

[Skip]

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

We often think that by holding back or depriving our “BPD” partner of “our love” – that they will “see the light”. We base this on all the times our partner expressed how special we were and how incredible the relationship was. Absence may makes the heart grow fonder when a relationship is healthy – but this is often not the case when the relationship is breaking down. People with BPD traits often have object consistency issues – “out of sight is out of mind”. They may feel, after two weeks of separation, the same way you would feel after six. Distancing can also trigger all kinds of abandonment and trust issues for the “BPD” partner (as described in #4). Absence generally makes the heart grow colder.

Our article is actually in error - the correct term is "object permanence".

[willtimeheal]

The whole object constancy confuses me. I understand the part about when I wasn't there and attending to "life" she would get upset. But what about the other part... .When she would disappear and I would not hear from her for weeks. This would happen when I thought things were good.  Like after we had a real nice evening together.

[Flora73]

willtimeheal

This is where I believe everything is opposite... .

Quote: So, in my 3 months of RAPID... .education on BPS  barfy I have worked something out... .

So we "Nons" miss someone when things come to an end and then (hopefully) let go over time.

"BPD's" totally forget about you and then over time start to miss you more and more... .

Its the complete opposite to the norm and further illustrates how everything with this illness is upside down.

[Flora73]

Actually... .

When I finish work in a few hours I'm going to walk home on my "Hands"

Will let you all know if I see things from a different perspective 

Im not going to walk backwards, that would be wrong... .just upside down on my hands

[tim_tom]

But I'm finally standing up for myself and not forgiving her behaviour, strangely its causing her to look of the fence and trying re-evaluate her game plan... .

Yes, it's funny how that works, Although i think rather then harboring resentment, focus on the boundaries on what works for you and what is best for you, and her. Don't allow her to take advantage of you. I told her today, everything has always been on her timetable, at her convenience and on her terms. From the relationship to the breakup to the post breakup communication, I told her no more, now it happens with my convenience in mind. This is not a hard rule, and I will not be purposely difficult, but I can and will tell her no.

as an aside, she told me very early in the relationship she doesn't like hearing the word no and isn't used to it. I thought she was kidding, boy was she not!

[Emelie Emelie]

My T told me, after the first break up, "you are the problem now". The intensity of the rs triggers all their BPD issues and behaviors. Perhaps after some time has passed we are not so threatening to them. With some distance they remember the "good" things about us and their rs with us and start to miss us.

[tim_tom]

Our article is actually in error - the correct term is "object permanence".

Well now, isn't that a fine thing.

You will be hearing from my attorneys 

[Loveofhislife]

Thanks Flora73! Great thread--and let us know about that walking on your hands perspective--should be a welcomed relief after walking on eggshells :-)

[Fluff]

A couple of months before my exbgpgf went ghost on me she expressed that she imagined we would meet again many many years later when we had started separate families. It would be so romantic. So tragic. How beautiful. I told her I don't want to be with someone who weaves sad stories. She didn't understand what I meant. Love truly is a beautiful tragedy for pwBPD it seems. I imagine she hasn't forgotten me, she just has different plans for the two of us. I hope I can stand by what I said about not wanting to be with someone who weaves sad stories when that day comes. Selfish ___ing child. Argh.