It's done. Told him I'm planning to leave

[Depression = 72% of members]

He asked me if I was looking at houses and planning a separation.  Calmly, rationally, and so I told him the truth, that I am.

He admitted that his mistake was believing that I was a stronger person than I am, that he could pour out his anger and frusteration and grief without limit, and since I have already been through so much, that I could take it.  He admitted that he has come to see that I am more fragile than he thought.  Yes... .I am. Also strong enough to stand up for myself, albeit a bit late?

He says he's going to keep trying to show me he's changed until I serve him with papers.  That I should stay in the house because leaving, or moving to a lesser neighbourhood, would be traumatic for our daughter

This is not at all how I expected things to go.  So collected and calm.

Can't shake the feeling of fear and doom, though.  I hope it is, as he claims, just me not knowing him well enough, judging him in the worst possible light?  Ugh.

Doesn't change the fact that there is no going back as far as I'm concerned.  Just... .ugh.  This is hard.

[ciel]

He asked me if I was looking at houses and planning a separation.  Calmly, rationally, and so I told him the truth, that I am.

He admitted that his mistake was believing that I was a stronger person than I am, that he could pour out his anger and frusteration and grief without limit, and since I have already been through so much, that I could take it.  He admitted that he has come to see that I am more fragile than he thought.  Yes... .I am. Also strong enough to stand up for myself, albeit a bit late?

He says he's going to keep trying to show me he's changed until I serve him with papers.  That I should stay in the house because leaving, or moving to a lesser neighbourhood, would be traumatic for our daughter

This is not at all how I expected things to go.  So collected and calm.

Can't shake the feeling of fear and doom, though.  I hope it is, as he claims, just me not knowing him well enough, judging him in the worst possible light?  Ugh.

Doesn't change the fact that there is no going back as far as I'm concerned.  Just... .ugh.  This is hard.

[goateeki]

All I would say is that if you're going to leave, then stick with it.  If you think there is no going back, then you have to believe that your instinct is right and that's all you need to know.

I wish you the best.

[ciel]

So he went to his father this morning to tell him that we're separating.  His anger was mostly directed at his father last night, when we had our initial conversation... .his father should have supported him (financially) more, he shouldn't have been so needy, he shouldn't be stressing his son by dating a "golddigging ___" etc.

He comes home and reports to me that his father and he agree that this is just the result of the fact that I come from a divorced family, that I am damaged... .perhaps irreparably... .and doomed to forever have failed relationships.  My husband is willing to help me to overcome this by going to couple's therapy with me, because he'd hate to see my deep-rooted issues destroy our family.  I've been in therapy on my own for quite some time, and believe I've got a pretty good handle on what my issues are and where they come from... .and that's not it.  Makes me angry to hear him diagnose me and tell me I'm doomed to unhappiness.  It hurts a lot.  But I guess I have to take the blame so long as it helps him detach?

His father also told him he was glad he never felt too attached to our daughter, his only grandchild, since I'm likely to take her and move far, far away back to my family.  And advised him to do the same: don't get too attached to that child, she'll only leave you.  That my husband would be best to just forget about me and go after a woman with lots of money.  My heart breaks for my husband and the absolute lack of empathy his father is showing him... .makes me feel terrible guilt because without me, he will go back to living under his faher's roof.  He is almost 50.

Maybe he's telling me all this precisely to make me feel that way, thus decreasing the chance I'll go through with my plan?  Ugh.   :'(

[Rifka]

So he went to his father this morning to tell him that we're separating.  His anger was mostly directed at his father last night, when we had our initial conversation... .his father should have supported him (financially) more, he shouldn't have been so needy, he shouldn't be stressing his son by dating a "golddigging ___" etc.

He comes home and reports to me that his father and he agree that this is just the result of the fact that I come from a divorced family, that I am damaged... .perhaps irreparably... .and doomed to forever have failed relationships.  My husband is willing to help me to overcome this by going to couple's therapy with me, because he'd hate to see my deep-rooted issues destroy our family.  I've been in therapy on my own for quite some time, and believe I've got a pretty good handle on what my issues are and where they come from... .and that's not it.  Makes me angry to hear him diagnose me and tell me I'm doomed to unhappiness.  It hurts a lot.  But I guess I have to take the blame so long as it helps him detach?

His father also told him he was glad he never felt too attached to our daughter, his only grandchild, since I'm likely to take her and move far, far away back to my family.  And advised him to do the same: don't get too attached to that child, she'll only leave you.  That my husband would be best to just forget about me and go after a woman with lots of money.  My heart breaks for my husband and the absolute lack of empathy his father is showing him... .makes me feel terrible guilt because without me, he will go back to living under his faher's roof.  He is almost 50.

Maybe he's telling me all this precisely to make me feel that way, thus decreasing the chance I'll go through with my plan?  Ugh.   :'(

Yes that is his new attempt to recycle you and break you down to stay.

It is not your responsibility to take care of or worry about if a 50 year old has to move back with his dad or not.

It is his job. You worry about yourself and your child's mental and emotional well being.

Try to keep strong! You are thinking clearly about him trying to trap you again in his last effect to play with your own issues and try to guilt you into staying.

Hugs to you! They will pull out everything you told them and use it against you to get what they want!

[MrConfusedWithItAll]

Today is good day to leave this nonsense behind.  And if not today then tomorrow. You are having to deal with a toxic and unhealthy partner as well as your partner's toxic father.  You are the strong one.  Your partner is still a child seeking counsel from his disturbed father to help with his failure at husbandry.  Be aware your mind is being messed with by very unhealthy people. 

[ciel]

Today is good day to leave this nonsense behind.  And if not today then tomorrow. You are having to deal with a toxic and unhealthy partner as well as your partner's toxic father.  You are the strong one.  Your partner is still a child seeking counsel from his disturbed father to help with his failure at husbandry.  Be aware your mind is being messed with by very unhealthy people. 

Thank you.  Wow.  Yes.  Thank you.

My husband reported that his father also made a bunch of suicide threats in their conversation this morning.  Forgot about that detail.  They are disturbed!  It's not my responsibility to take care of them!  What a relief. 

[Mutt]

He admitted that his mistake was believing that I was a stronger person than I am, that he could pour out his anger and frusteration and grief without limit, and since I have already been through so much, that I could take it.  He admitted that he has come to see that I am more fragile than he thought.  Yes... .I am. Also strong enough to stand up for myself, albeit a bit late?

He is telling you he views you not as a person but as an object.

BPD BEHAVIORS: Objectifying the romantic partner

[Pingo]

He comes home and reports to me that his father and he agree that this is just the result of the fact that I come from a divorced family, that I am damaged... .perhaps irreparably... .and doomed to forever have failed relationships. 

Mine tried this tactic as well, he blamed my 'failure' to stay in the marriage on various things, my being hurt by ex boyfriends, being left at the altar twice (his words, just broken engagements).  My mother gave me the silent treatment a lot when I was growing up so that is why I am oversensitive to when he 'gets quiet'... .Never being able to be accountable for anything.  And loved to come home after talking to family/friends/his counsellor about 'my problems' and reporting to me how they all think I'm nuts, etc. 

Stay strong, sounds like you are seeing through the FOG and seeing a T is so helpful to keep on the right path. 

[ciel]

This past week has been a descent through the many levels of BPD inferno... .

He will not leave me alone, nor stop wanting to talk talk talk about his feelings and his thoughts, which have grown progressively more dysregulated and disturbing.

Yesterday, we went to a (very expensive and experienced therapist) psychologist together, at his insistence, for marital counselling.  The doctor asked how I'd come to this point, so I laid it out clearly: the abuse (without labelling it as such), the alienation, the constant controlling, the depression. 

My husband didn't deny any of it.  Instead, he was bewildered that the things he'd said and done had been so hurtful to me.  He had no idea I was suffering, or that I wasn't ok with that abuse, or so he claims.  And besides he didn't really mean any of the hurtful things he said, he thought I knew that.   

Dissociation?  Denial?  How could he miss the fact that calling me stupid, selfish, irresponsible, lazy, ___, and so on, was causing me tremendous pain and anguish? 

Either he had no empathy, or he's lying about not knowing, and he felt that I deserved that pain.  That's a chilling thought.

The psychologist didn't challenge me at all about the things I said, other than asking what had happened when I'd voiced my feelings about the abusive treatment (rage of course).  In the end, the doctor refused to continue marital therapy with us, since he had already treated my husband (15 years ago) and his family, which I was not aware of.  I said I didn't mind coming back, tha I was glad if he already understood my husband and his family dynamics, but he refused.  Strange? 

Before we left, I asked the doctor if my husband could benefit from individual therapy, to which he replied, with a little smirk, "you know the saying, you can lead a horse to water?"

It felt to me like he was telling me, you've suffered enough, be free, go, be happy!  It actually brought me a great deal of peace.

Which I needed. 

[ciel]

He just came by my work to hand me a printout from the internet on avoidant personality disorder, saying, "I think you need to do more self-criticism.  Don't take it the wrong way."

I think we both know there's only one personality disorder in the room here, and that's not it.   

[Tiepje3]

Ciel82, reading your story I never read a part where he's taking responsibility for his actions or saying sorry to you. Au contraire, he's loading more and more of the failure of the r/s on your shoulders. Beware!

Nobody deserve's to be called names, especially not within a so-called 'loving' r/s. I've been there. I've thought at some point(s) it was me, but I know (and I've been told) that people who love each other, don't do that the their partner.

I'm proud of you for taking a giant step. Stick with it!

I'm in the middle, it hurts like hell, it drives me crazy, it's depressive, but every time I make myself think back to his angry outbursts and the fact that I do NOT deserve that (nor do I deserve to be replaced).

Good luck!

[hope2727]

Wow you are so strong. Good for you. Keep going, my counsellor told me the hardest part of a journey across the desert is the last few miles. She also warned me to be wary of mirages. That lesson has stayed with me. The last few miles of any journey are the hardest and you can get distracted by illusions of safety along the way.

As for the therapist well he sounds better than my fiancees. She counselled him for years including marriage counselling with his ex-wife. But she was happy to see us at $190 an hour when we started to have problems. No bias there at all. Then she proceeded to believe all his lies and manipulations and when I would point out a blatant lie she would act shocked and get all quiet and withdrawn. She went on to tell me how she didn't believe in boundaries or compromise. Yup this from a Phd psychologist. It was an awesome experience let me tell you. I WISH we had been to your psychologist. He sounds much better.

So keep going you are well on your way to whatever future you want to make. I look forward to updates.

[Pingo]

Before we left, I asked the doctor if my husband could benefit from individual therapy, to which he replied, with a little smirk, "you know the saying, you can lead a horse to water?"

I love this! And how fantastic to find a T who validates the pain and suffering you have experienced!

As for the therapist well he sounds better than my fiancees. She counselled him for years including marriage counselling with his ex-wife. But she was happy to see us at $190 an hour when we started to have problems. No bias there at all. Then she proceeded to believe all his lies and manipulations and when I would point out a blatant lie she would act shocked and get all quiet and withdrawn. She went on to tell me how she didn't believe in boundaries or compromise. Yup this from a Phd psychologist. It was an awesome experience let me tell you. I WISH we had been to your psychologist. He sounds much better.

I had a similar experience going to marriage counselling with my ex.  He went in there all innocent and pretending that he had absolutely no idea the pain he was inflicting.  He was 'shocked' that I was afraid of him!  When telling the T about all the ridiculous behaviour, I told her about the days long silent treatment he loved to inflict on me.  I said he is punishing me with it.  Her response?  "Why do you feel punished?"!  No asking him to be accountable for anything!  It was sickening!  She truly made things worse b/c I came out of there every week even more confused and not trusting me feelings.

Keep going, my counsellor told me the hardest part of a journey across the desert is the last few miles. She also warned me to be wary of mirages. That lesson has stayed with me. The last few miles of any journey are the hardest and you can get distracted by illusions of safety along the way.

This is awesome, I love this!

[Gimme Peace]

Sounds like this is where he is in denial and can't accept responsibility. Brought a blamegram to your work? Desperate and creepy.

Kudos for pushing through the FOG and giving yourself your life back.

[ciel]

Keep going, my counsellor told me the hardest part of a journey across the desert is the last few miles. She also warned me to be wary of mirages. That lesson has stayed with me. The last few miles of any journey are the hardest and you can get distracted by illusions of safety along the way.

So true.  We just have to put one foot in front of the other and keep going, while the longing for sweet rest and peace becomes more and more urgent.  One step at a time. 

I'm sorry that you had such an invalidating experience at your therapist.  It's hard enough to cling to your truths without a third, supposedly expert, person, undermining them.  It takes so much strength and belief in yourself, which I certainly didn't have years ago, when I got into this r/s.  We are tough!

It saddens me to see how terrified he is at the prospect of being alone.  He is already taking about how I should be prepared that he will possibly have a new girlfriend in two or three months... .and then when I say, you are welcome to do so, but it doesn't interest me, your private life will be private, as will mine, he goes into a rage--how dare I not care if he dates other women!  How dare I exclude him from my private life!

Oops, I should have known that would be a trigger. 

I hope he doesn't stalk me when I'm gone.

[ciel]

It's done.

Movers came this morning, loaded my hastily packed boxes and bags in their truck, a few pieces of furniture, and took it to my new new house.  My nest for me and my daughter to begin a new chapter of our lives together.

Walking through the old house and seeing what remained was devastating.  No colour, no life, blank walls and empty space.  And yet I took only a couch, a desk and my daughter's furniture, my photographs and silly Mexican art that he's always hated anyways, leaving the house almost intact for him.  But all the life is gone.  I think that's a bit revealing... .we were the vital part of that family.

How is he going to cope?  I have no idea.  It worries me, especially since his thoughts have become more paranoid, his emotions severely dysregulated, these past two weeks.  I could barely sleep these last few nights as I listen to him pacing, going out and coming back, standing outside my bedroom door.  Our couple's therapist, on the third visit, got a glimpse of his disordered emotions and thoughts and suggested he get immediate psychiactric and probably pharmacological help.  I don't know... .how is this going to go?

I guess I have to complete my detachment and let him be responsible for himself.  And just worry about my precious little girl and myself.  I love my new house, love what this new starts offers me... .

I feel guilty to be so relieved, knowing the devastation it will bring to his life.  How selfish.  Just like he's always said of me.

[Pingo]

Ciel, may this be the beginning of your new and beautiful life!  Enjoy putting your own personality in this new home.  Don't feel guilt.  We all are responsible for our own decisions in life.  Take care of yourself and your daughter.

[pallavirajsinghani]

He comes home and reports to me that his father and he agree that this is just the result of the fact that I come from a divorced family, that I am damaged... .perhaps irreparably... .and doomed to forever have failed relationships.  My husband is willing to help me to overcome this by going to couple's therapy with me, because he'd hate to see my deep-rooted issues destroy our family.  I've been in therapy on my own for quite some time, and believe I've got a pretty good handle on what my issues are and where they come from... .and that's not it.  Makes me angry to hear him diagnose me and tell me I'm doomed to unhappiness.  It hurts a lot.  But I guess I have to take the blame so long as it helps him detach?

His father also told him he was glad he never felt too attached to our daughter, his only grandchild, since I'm likely to take her and move far, far away back to my family.  And advised him to do the same: don't get too attached to that child, she'll only leave you.  That my husband would be best to just forget about me and go after a woman with lots of money.  My heart breaks for my husband and the absolute lack of empathy his father is showing him... .makes me feel terrible guilt because without me, he will go back to living under his faher's roof.  He is almost 50.



This is Triangulation 101.  I have witnessed this first hand many times.  This is a classic tactic of putting ones own's thoughts and words into someone else's mouth.  Many spouses come from therapists and engage in similar behavior,  "My therapist said that there is nothing wrong with me.  That I do not need therapy, you do.  My therapist also says that you are xxxxx and zzzz and wwwww and pppppp and that you will never amount to anything and ... .ad nauseaum. 

So, even though the thought will hurt you to the very inner depths of your spirit... .understand that these thoughts and words are his.

Therefore, act accordingly.

[pallavirajsinghani]

As for the therapist well he sounds better than my fiancees. She counselled him for years including marriage counselling with his ex-wife. But she was happy to see us at $190 an hour when we started to have problems. No bias there at all. Then she proceeded to believe all his lies and manipulations and when I would point out a blatant lie she would act shocked and get all quiet and withdrawn. She went on to tell me how she didn't believe in boundaries or compromise. Yup this from a Phd psychologist. It was an awesome experience let me tell you. I WISH we had been to your psychologist. He sounds much better.

Hope:  With apology for hijacking Ciel's thread:  please allow me to comment on this:  I recently discovered that I had been a long term victim of "lazy medicine".  My doctor had continued to prescribe 2 medications for me for 12 + years, which the medical consensus says should last no more than 6 months... .these medicines being crisis intervention medications only.  The revelation occurred when I changed my doctor from a 'Family Practitioner" to an "Internal Medicine" specialist.

So, based on my experience, I have learnt that different medical practitioners... .including different types of counselors and therapists have different specialities.  A marriage counselor is trained to resolve communication issues between the spouses and to teach them how to communicate in a manner that will strengthen their relationship... .the focus in NOT on searching for/diagnosing/treating any personality disorder or organic mental illness like Schizophrenia etc.  A Therapist or an MD is different... .and then there are psychiatrists who specialize in pharmacological management while others specialize in therapies while others conduct both... .

So, one needs to conduct some research as to what one needs and when intuition is not right... .follow it... .you may need professional help which is beyond the parameters of the professional you are seeking it from.

[going places]

www.narcissisticbehavior.net/the-effects-of-gaslighting-in-narcissistic-victim-syndrome/