Still Can't find closure

[Loveofhislife]

Loved of his life

It was an open ended question it will mean something different to everyone depending on where we are at in ourselves.

My self have been focused on understanding what happened in the devaluation and fog. As that is when I was confused the most.

I will eventually focus on the code of the initial stages. 

It is mind boggling comfusing and painful to reflect in this way for me.  It forces me to confront my denials and narcisism.

Thanks again--is a great question for me to ponder. The devaluation always felt like it was power struggle and control. The Silent Treatment followed by total abandonment has got me doing the why? Why? Why? Like Peioer's T said, I think it started out as a punishment and exbfBPD decided it was giving him the control he wanted/needed. My T says he loves imagining me twirling around on a spit of his making. But the real question is why do I remain so devastated by it? Perhaps it is, in part, some of my own narcissism. OUCH! That hurts. Please keep posting about your own self discoveries on the archetype path. 2010 once wrote that exbfBPD was likely feeling controlled by me; hence the Silent Protector. He also wrote that his ST was causing me pain because my r/s may have been the first time I was heard and that when exbfBPD went silent; I lost my voice. I think that's close, but I'm pretty sequential and feel like I've got to start from the beginning: idealization.

[peiper]

Loved of his life

It was an open ended question it will mean something different to everyone depending on where we are at in ourselves.

My self have been focused on understanding what happened in the devaluation and fog. As that is when I was confused the most.

I will eventually focus on the code of the initial stages. 

It is mind boggling comfusing and painful to reflect in this way for me.  It forces me to confront my denials and narcisism.

Thanks again--is a great question for me to ponder. The devaluation always felt like it was power struggle and control. The Silent Treatment followed by total abandonment has got me doing the why? Why? Why? Like Peioer's T said, I think it started out as a punishment and exbfBPD decided it was giving him the control he wanted/needed. My T says he loves imagining me twirling around on a spit of his making. But the real question is why do I remain so devastated by it? Perhaps it is, in part, some of my own narcissism. OUCH! That hurts. Please keep posting about your own self discoveries on the archetype path. 2010 once wrote that exbfBPD was likely feeling controlled by me; hence the Silent Protector. He also wrote that his ST was causing me pain because my r/s may have been the first time I was heard and that when exbfBPD went silent; I lost my voice. I think that's close, but I'm pretty sequential and feel like I've got to start from the beginning: idealization.

I think that makes perfect sense, that it started out as punishment.

[Blimblam]

Loved of his life

It was an open ended question it will mean something different to everyone depending on where we are at in ourselves.

My self have been focused on understanding what happened in the devaluation and fog. As that is when I was confused the most.

I will eventually focus on the code of the initial stages. 

It is mind boggling comfusing and painful to reflect in this way for me.  It forces me to confront my denials and narcisism.

Thanks again--is a great question for me to ponder. The devaluation always felt like it was power struggle and control. The Silent Treatment followed by total abandonment has got me doing the why? Why? Why? Like Peioer's T said, I think it started out as a punishment and exbfBPD decided it was giving him the control he wanted/needed. My T says he loves imagining me twirling around on a spit of his making. But the real question is why do I remain so devastated by it? Perhaps it is, in part, some of my own narcissism. OUCH! That hurts. Please keep posting about your own self discoveries on the archetype path. 2010 once wrote that exbfBPD was likely feeling controlled by me; hence the Silent Protector. He also wrote that his ST was causing me pain because my r/s may have been the first time I was heard and that when exbfBPD went silent; I lost my voice. I think that's close, but I'm pretty sequential and feel like I've got to start from the beginning: idealization.

Getting to this place where we can begin to self reflect in this way is a pretty huge step. For me at least.  It took a nervous break down about 800 hours of meditation and shooting my own foot over and over. And 4 months of not seeing her.

[Deeno02]

I took all the blame. It was easier that way

[Blimblam]

I took all the blame. It was easier that way

Please try not to beat yourself up though. Hard not to do when you take that route

[Blimblam]

Loved of his life

It was an open ended question it will mean something different to everyone depending on where we are at in ourselves.

My self have been focused on understanding what happened in the devaluation and fog. As that is when I was confused the most.

I will eventually focus on the code of the initial stages. 

It is mind boggling comfusing and painful to reflect in this way for me.  It forces me to confront my denials and narcisism.

Thanks again--is a great question for me to ponder. The devaluation always felt like it was power struggle and control. The Silent Treatment followed by total abandonment has got me doing the why? Why? Why? Like Peioer's T said, I think it started out as a punishment and exbfBPD decided it was giving him the control he wanted/needed. My T says he loves imagining me twirling around on a spit of his making. But the real question is why do I remain so devastated by it? Perhaps it is, in part, some of my own narcissism. OUCH! That hurts. Please keep posting about your own self discoveries on the archetype path. 2010 once wrote that exbfBPD was likely feeling controlled by me; hence the Silent Protector. He also wrote that his ST was causing me pain because my r/s may have been the first time I was heard and that when exbfBPD went silent; I lost my voice. I think that's close, but I'm pretty sequential and feel like I've got to start from the beginning: idealization.

For me my narcisism was linked to my denial durring the devaluing and after the discard. Which was linked to my projecting some bright happy future in the idealization.

[Deeno02]

I know Blimblam. I didn't want to fight with her. I do know after reading and venting here that I don't own it all. Hell, I don't even own most of it. It was just easier to remove myself from the toxic moment.

[peiper]

Loved of his life

It was an open ended question it will mean something different to everyone depending on where we are at in ourselves.

My self have been focused on understanding what happened in the devaluation and fog. As that is when I was confused the most.

I will eventually focus on the code of the initial stages. 

It is mind boggling comfusing and painful to reflect in this way for me.  It forces me to confront my denials and narcisism.

Thanks again--is a great question for me to ponder. The devaluation always felt like it was power struggle and control. The Silent Treatment followed by total abandonment has got me doing the why? Why? Why? Like Peioer's T said, I think it started out as a punishment and exbfBPD decided it was giving him the control he wanted/needed. My T says he loves imagining me twirling around on a spit of his making. But the real question is why do I remain so devastated by it? Perhaps it is, in part, some of my own narcissism. OUCH! That hurts. Please keep posting about your own self discoveries on the archetype path. 2010 once wrote that exbfBPD was likely feeling controlled by me; hence the Silent Protector. He also wrote that his ST was causing me pain because my r/s may have been the first time I was heard and that when exbfBPD went silent; I lost my voice. I think that's close, but I'm pretty sequential and feel like I've got to start from the beginning: idealization.

For me my narcisism was linked to my denial durring the devaluing and after the discard. Which was linked to my projecting some bright happy future in the idealization.

Blim could you go a little deeper please ?

[peiper]

I know Blimblam. I didn't want to fight with her. I do know after reading and venting here that I don't own it all. Hell, I don't even own most of it. It was just easier to remove myself from the toxic moment.

[/quote I know exactly what you mean Deeno !

[Blimblam]

Loved of life

Your very welcome.

Pieper

Ok I'll try. It's not always east for me to get into that state without a trigger.

We'll durring the devalue discard phase. Which is not trully a discard btw. Things were going downhill in the relationship but I clung to the power of love notion and everything I projected onto my ex and she had extracted from me to mirror as a visage of hope things would go back to how they were. Also I began to bend and be more accommodating with the expectation she would reciprocate. When she didn't I became resentful.

By that point I had already became dependent on her for validation and I could feel everything she felt but I bought into her gaslighting because I was in denial.

In the begining I had this idea she would get a sense of my devotion and ability to turn drama into a satirical game to desolve it. This is how I got through her dysregulation early on and them she would reward me by deifying me. This caused me to overlook that those times were actually bad because it activated my vulnerable narcissism to remember the reward at the end. This was actually conditioning me to repress my concerns because "it always works out in then end because I'm such a great guy" line I was telling myself.

So I was basically conditioned to try to find a solution to things durring the devaluing. What I projected as the solution in the begining kept me stuck within that paradigm when she was craving drama later on. She was treating me how she wanted to be treated which was like crap and used.  When I didn't provide that for her it was projected into me and was basically a time bomb waiting to go off.  Yet I kept repressing my emotions to uphold my narcisistic image of how I wanted things to be rather than how they were.

[Blimblam]

I want to add the fact I refused to treat her like crap is a sign of my character. I didn't leave right away because I believed in us which under normal circumstances would be healthy narcisism if a relationship got a little stale. This though was abuse and I was in denial of it trying to get it right this time.

Later on I acted out of desperation wanting us to make amends.  I wanted her to forgive herself. Yet I persisted which was narcisistic of me.

[peiper]

Loved of life

Your very welcome.

Pieper

Ok I'll try. It's not always east for me to get into that state without a trigger.

We'll durring the devalue discard phase. Which is not trully a discard btw. Things were going downhill in the relationship but I clung to the power of love notion and everything I projected onto my ex and she had extracted from me to mirror as a visage of hope things would go back to how they were. Also I began to bend and be more accommodating with the expectation she would reciprocate. When she didn't I became resentful.

By that point I had already became dependent on her for validation and I could feel everything she felt but I bought into her gaslighting because I was in denial.

In the begining I had this idea she would get a sense of my devotion and ability to turn drama into a satirical game to desolve it. This is how I got through her dysregulation early on and them she would reward me by deifying me. This caused me to overlook that those times were actually bad because it activated my vulnerable narcissism to remember the reward at the end. This was actually conditioning me to repress my concerns because "it always works out in then end because I'm such a great guy" line I was telling myself.

So I was basically conditioned to try to find a solution to things durring the devaluing. What I projected as the solution in the begining kept me stuck within that paradigm when she was craving drama later on. She was treating me how she wanted to be treated which was like crap and used.  When I didn't provide that for her it was projected into me and was basically a time bomb waiting to go off.  Yet I kept repressing my emotions to uphold my narcisistic image of how I wanted things to be rather than how they were.

That makes perfect sense Blim, thank you !

[irishmarmot]

Peiper just want to let you know that you are not alone.  My expwBPD also got a bogus restraining order.  It's been 9 months NC and I wanted to hear from her also.  I also want her out of my head permanently!   I am beginning to find closure by realizing that she has a serious mental illness that presents itself with chaotic personal relationships...   That is the hallmark of BPD.  Understanding that point and being a compassionate person i cant help but be filled with empathy for her.  But I have to take care of myself and i am not looking to babysit my partners moods for the rest of my life.

[Loveofhislife]

Absolutely amazing thread--thank you, Peiper, for starting it; Deeno--sometimes we do what we do to survive; I would be in better shape (I think) had I accepted ANY blame for the r/s (which I have not). My anger and blame has continued to be focused on me after the fact. But at least I got out alive: something those closest to me were beginning to worry about. Talks of an "intervention" to get me out of the relationship had ensued by early summer. But I refused to let go--Blim's description of his narcissism sounds familiar. I would add grandiosity to mine, "He would NEVER leave me; he would NEVER betray me; he would NEVER lie, cheat, and steal." He had sabotaged himself and every other relationship (that I knew about) in is life. No one was immune--how could I think I would be different? Therein lies some if my own narcissistic thinking. Yuk  

[peiper]

Absolutely amazing thread--thank you, Peiper, for starting it; Deeno--sometimes we do what we do to survive; I would be in better shape (I think) had I accepted ANY blame for the r/s (which I have not). My anger and blame has continued to be focused on me after the fact. But at least I got out alive: something those closest to me were beginning to worry about. Talks of an "intervention" to get me out of the relationship had ensued by early summer. But I refused to let go--Blim's description of his narcissism sounds familiar. I would add grandiosity to mine, "He would NEVER leave me; he would NEVER betray me; he would NEVER lie, cheat, and steal." He had sabotaged himself and every other relationship (that I knew about) in is life. No one was immune--how could I think I would be different? Therein lies some if my own narcissistic thinking. Yuk   Ditto !

[Rifka]

The thing is that you are not ever going to get it.

Rifka I think you may be projecting here. It

Is possible to be understood but it is an extremely confusing process.  I am begining to decode the projections how I identified them what that triggered in her etc.

Using the tools of the karpman triangle and schema modes and archytpes. Provides a framework for it to be understood. It requires a painfull look at ones self and identifying the different archytipical energies we identify with.

Yes thanks Blimblam,

Some will and some won't, depends on each individual.

It is really a lot of reading and internal work to get there.

[blissful_camper]

Hi Peiper,

Achieving closure doesn't require your ex's participation.   The closure that you seek is within you. 

I received an apology and explanation from my ex, and while it momentarily provided relief, the interaction didn't provide closure.   (It raised more questions)

Closure came when I let go.  The process of letting go began when I redirected my focus (away from him). 

[peiper]

Bliss what type of questions did it raise ? Im trying to get the focus off of her, but she kinda left me a financial wreck so I get reminded frequently.

[2014]

This.

Also, the disorder is your closure. Its the only way.

Hi Peiper,

Achieving closure doesn't require your ex's participation.   The closure that you seek is within you. 

I received an apology and explanation from my ex, and while it momentarily provided relief, the interaction didn't provide closure.   (It raised more questions)

Closure came when I let go.  The process of letting go began when I redirected my focus (away from him). 

[blissful_camper]

Bliss what type of questions did it raise ? Im trying to get the focus off of her, but she kinda left me a financial wreck so I get reminded frequently.

It raised more questions for me about our involvement, and what had occurred between us.  It added another layer of confusion to my confusion.  

Many on this forum have experienced financial loss as a result of their r/s.   I was left a financial wreck too.  I had to take responsibility for that financial loss.  

It was my choice to invest in my r/s, both emotionally and financially.  I made a poor choice when I entered the r/s with my ex.  I've explored why I made that choice, and I've forgiven myself.  (I forgive him too)  It was a difficult but important lesson for me.    

[Loveofhislife]

Peiper and Bliss--the financial wreck is certainly a "tangible" and lasting negative outcome of the relationship on top of the destruction of our emotional and physical plants, children, jobs, friends and family. I think it's been easier to focus on the financial than the damage to my credibility and psyche. As the "lonely child" who strives for understanding, I continue to try to make sense of it all. He certainly used me: for money amidst many other things. It is a sick feeling realizing you were used and likely replaced. Just inconceivable.

[peiper]

We were used on so many levels ! Used and replaced, I think that's what hurts the most.

[blissful_camper]

Yes, it's inconceivable.  

I've let go of all of it.  (Feeling used, financial loss, the list goes on)  It has fallen away.  I'm at peace with it. 

[Waifed]

Well the last time she split for no reason she called up out of the blue after a few months and said her life was crap without me and she loved me. It would be nice to hear something along those lines,

I know that feeling. 

When i feel that way A part of me is saying why? Why? Why?

What is it that you are seeking that is being projected onto the image of her you percieve as outside yourself?

Blim, that I can go from being the most important thing in her life to nothing to her so fast. It hurts. When I married her it was for life to me.

Peiper

Her actions speak volumes to what kind of character she has. She has low morals and probably lacks respect for everyone but the next person she "falls in love with".  I know it is hard to see through the pain and abuse you have suffered but you deserve better than this. She is a damaged soul who can only be saved by herself and the odds are that this will never happen.

You have the opportunity to break free from this trauma and take back your life. The closure will come from within but you can not get their until realize that the shame you feel is unjustified. You loved a person who was not capable of reciprocating. You gave to a person who could only receive and not give back. She probably doesn't want to hurt you but her needs have control over her actions. You deserve much better for yourself. Everyone deserves better. In time these things will be clear to you, but for now you must grieve and let the anger come and pass. It is a process. The process begins when our pain is greater than our love.

Commit yourself to getting over this. Find out why you have low self esteem and work to build it. Nobody in this world is better than anyone else. We are equal and only separated by varying degrees of reality. There is a partner that you wii meet that will bring joy to your life. Your task is to do the work on yourself so that you desire a relationship with a healthier partner. Take life one day at a time. You will transform into a completely different human being if you focus on your needs and do the work on yourself to find out why you would stay in a toxic relationship. It is a liberating experience that will bring joy to your life and give you the confidence to do anything you want. You will learn to like who you are as a person. Once this comes the sky is the limit. Over time the feelings for your ex will dull.

Hang tough.  Be easy on yourself. We will all get through this. Happiness may feel fleeting but it's just around the corner if we focus on ourselves.

[peiper]

Well the last time she split for no reason she called up out of the blue after a few months and said her life was crap without me and she loved me. It would be nice to hear something along those lines,

I know that feeling. 

When i feel that way A part of me is saying why? Why? Why?

What is it that you are seeking that is being projected onto the image of her you percieve as outside yourself?

Blim, that I can go from being the most important thing in her life to nothing to her so fast. It hurts. When I married her it was for life to me.

Peiper

Her actions speak volumes to what kind of character she has. She has low morals and probably lacks respect for everyone but the next person she "falls in love with".  I know it is hard to see through the pain and abuse you have suffered but you deserve better than this. She is a damaged soul who can only be saved by herself and the odds are that this will never happen.

You have the opportunity to break free from this trauma and take back your life. The closure will come from within but you can not get their until realize that the shame you feel is unjustified. You loved a person who was not capable of reciprocating. You gave to a person who could only receive and not give back. She probably doesn't want to hurt you but her needs have control over her actions. You deserve much better for yourself. Everyone deserves better. In time these things will be clear to you, but for now you must grieve and let the anger come and pass. It is a process. The process begins when our pain is greater than our love.

Commit yourself to getting over this. Find out why you have low self esteem and work to build it. Nobody in this world is better than anyone else. We are equal and only separated by varying degrees of reality. There is a partner that you wii meet that will bring joy to your life. Your task is to do the work on yourself so that you desire a relationship with a healthier partner. Take life one day at a time. You will transform into a completely different human being if you focus on your needs and do the work on yourself to find out why you would stay in a toxic relationship. It is a liberating experience that will bring joy to your life and give you the confidence to do anything you want. You will learn to like who you are as a person. Once this comes the sky is the limit. Over time the feelings for your ex will dull.

Hang tough.  Be easy on yourself. We will all get through this. Happiness may feel fleeting but it's just around the corner if we focus on ourselves.

Those are the things that I needed to hear. I've been so close today of picking up the phone and calling or texting her. Thank you

[Waifed]

Well the last time she split for no reason she called up out of the blue after a few months and said her life was crap without me and she loved me. It would be nice to hear something along those lines,

I know that feeling. 

When i feel that way A part of me is saying why? Why? Why?

What is it that you are seeking that is being projected onto the image of her you percieve as outside yourself?

Blim, that I can go from being the most important thing in her life to nothing to her so fast. It hurts. When I married her it was for life to me.

Peiper

Her actions speak volumes to what kind of character she has. She has low morals and probably lacks respect for everyone but the next person she "falls in love with".  I know it is hard to see through the pain and abuse you have suffered but you deserve better than this. She is a damaged soul who can only be saved by herself and the odds are that this will never happen.

You have the opportunity to break free from this trauma and take back your life. The closure will come from within but you can not get their until realize that the shame you feel is unjustified. You loved a person who was not capable of reciprocating. You gave to a person who could only receive and not give back. She probably doesn't want to hurt you but her needs have control over her actions. You deserve much better for yourself. Everyone deserves better. In time these things will be clear to you, but for now you must grieve and let the anger come and pass. It is a process. The process begins when our pain is greater than our love.

Commit yourself to getting over this. Find out why you have low self esteem and work to build it. Nobody in this world is better than anyone else. We are equal and only separated by varying degrees of reality. There is a partner that you wii meet that will bring joy to your life. Your task is to do the work on yourself so that you desire a relationship with a healthier partner. Take life one day at a time. You will transform into a completely different human being if you focus on your needs and do the work on yourself to find out why you would stay in a toxic relationship. It is a liberating experience that will bring joy to your life and give you the confidence to do anything you want. You will learn to like who you are as a person. Once this comes the sky is the limit. Over time the feelings for your ex will dull.

Hang tough.  Be easy on yourself. We will all get through this. Happiness may feel fleeting but it's just around the corner if we focus on ourselves.

Those are the things that I needed to hear. I've been so close today of picking up the phone and calling or texting her. Thank you

We're all in this together stay strong

[peiper]

I don't know why today has been so rough, but its been a real butt kicker to not pick up that phone.

[AwakenedOne]

They walk away because they don't have the values you do.  Some people view marriage as a sacred vow, the ultimate committment.  Sadly other people say yes but are not serious.  It is cruel, it is not fair, the whole thing is a pile of sh't. Good news, you can grow nice flowers with a pile of bovine excrement.

This comment reminds me of my "wife".

[blissful_camper]

I don't know why today has been so rough, but its been a real butt kicker to not pick up that phone.

It's rough because you're still processing what you experienced.  You're traumatized.  Give yourself credit for not picking up the phone.    That takes a lot of strength.  I know it's heartbreaking.  Hang in there.   

[peiper]

Thanks so much Bliss