Question for the non guys

[RedDove]

This has been bugging me for awhile, so I wanted to ask for input from all of you "non" BPD guys out there... .Two summers ago my ex BPDbf took me to dinner. There was karaoke and the song was "She's just too good to be true, can't take my eyes off of you". My ex BPDbf (bf at the time) serenaded me at the table. I thought it was romantic at the time.

I didn't know he suffered from BPD until I ended the encounter just this past June (4 years in total).

After dinner we then went back to my house to watch a movie. He was laying in my lap. I was holding back the fact for several weeks that I was upset over the fact that we didn't spent enough time together. So I asked him during his (20+) marriage, what types of things he and his ex wife enjoyed doing together. His response was, what kind of question is that! I said, well, like, did you ever run errands together, like on a Saturday? Or, go grocery shopping. To the mall? He said, no, why? I responded that me and my ex husband always did everything together. He sat bolt upright, raged at me and walked out.

It was the only fight we had ober the course of the 4 year encounter. I went after him to apologize (yeah, stupid I know!). When I got to his house he kept raging/yelling at me, saying then go back to your ex husband! I'm tired of hearing what a disappointment I am, I heard it throughout my entire marriage. He started ceying, went into his house and I got the silent treatment for 2 weeks.

My question is, if a girlfriend brought up wanting to spend more time together and referenced an ex husband (divorced 14 years) would a "non" guy have reacted the same way? Just curious! Thanks!

[Bak86]

I don't like when a girlfriend speaks about an ex. It means they are still thinking about them, which is a   

[WhatTheFrank]

I would say it's in how it's phrased.  How you have it above I personally would not have been offended, I would have seen it as you trying to find things for us to mutually do.  Mature adults in a mature relationship can discuss past relationships when/if the need arises, but it is all in how it is presented.  What triggered him was the "I responded that me and my ex husband always did everything together."  I could see that triggering feelings of inadequacy in someone with a shame-based persona.  It probably would have been better if you had just mentioned the things you and your ex-husband used to do and asked him if he would be interested in doing those activities.  If he was a person without BPD, I would categorize his response as an overreaction.

I do have to say in the relationship with exBPDgf if I was not meeting some relationship need instead of approaching me how you did, I would get "well that's what people do in NORMAL relationships" or "well that's what my LAST boyfriend did for me".  Lady, our relationship isn't normal, and I ain't your last boyfriend!

It could also be that you mentioning the ex husband triggered his jealousy.  If I ever brought up something from previous relationships (never to rub in her face, but just as a point of reference), it was usually met with hostility.

[anxiety5]

Absolutely not. How can we know who we are if we don't know where we've been? I hate how people say ex's are off limits. I mean, I get it. If you are infatuated with them and won't stop talking about them, fine. But I think the information about what worked in past relationships vs. what did not is incredibly insightful in understanding what a person expects from me in a relationship as well as what type of person they are in a relationship.

If he had BPD, you understand that it's rarely about context, mostly about emotions. Emotions drive everything. This reaction is text book BPD. Everyone has their own "triggers" It sounds nothing more to me than a classic BPD of perceiving everything to be criticism, which triggers self worth issues, which triggers shame and inadequacy along with their overwhelming fear of engulfment. Keep in mind there is nothing you could do or say that would have had that situation turn out any other way. The only option I found was to give them space and let their emotional equilibrium return to a normal level. I learned early on that no matter what they do or say, it worked out better for me to remind myself this person has problems, not me. And to NEVER bite on their rage behavior. I would simply remove myself and they would always come back feeling kind of dumb and the issue was over. If I reacted though with quite frankly, the What the heck reaction that their behavior deserved, there would be a battle and in the end their whacked sense of reality only focused on my reaction without any accountability for the fact they caused it.

You can't think in logic terms when it comes to someone who is driven off pure emotion. Their emotions hijack their logic and their lack of self, which is the root of their control freak issues means that rarely if ever will they admit fault or apologize. They will simply come back, tail between their legs, and expect things to move on without a word.

[Inside]

I’d experienced the same behavior from my 3.5 year xuBPDgf.  Amazing … or not

We’ll never, and likely never should forget our previous r/s’s, so your question and reference was just fine.  In fact, healthy.  Wish my BPx would have taken ‘the same’ in a sane non-threatened way… 

I’d of course ask her what she’d liked doing ‘before us?’  …I’m not talking bedroom activities, but things she’d enjoyed doing, with anyone.  Strangely, that worked well.  But let me mention something/ somewhere I’d liked doing/ going with my xwife (or any female)... .  My BPgf had this marching, pacing lecturing rant    

Well, it’s another Saturday Night and I ain’t got nobody – but thanks for reminding me what I once ‘had’

[RedDove]

Thanks so much for your honesty, input, and for sharing similar stories. I'm 3+ months out of the encounter with my ex BPDbf. Due to the fact that I didn't know about his BPD until the final confrontation, I find myself re-examining and re-stepping through different things that happened and seeing them with new perspective, through BPD glasses.

Have a food weekend! 

[mywifecrazy]

The OLD immature UNHEALTHY me might have been a little put off by it. But the person I am now... .Healthy, Mature, secure in whom I am would like the idea that you're suggesting we do more things to be together. Yeah... .That was a definite   

MWC... .

[Blimblam]

The way it was you wrote it.  Seems pretty passive aggressive to me and I wouldn't be to happy.

[brokenbutalive]

This has been bugging me for awhile, so I wanted to ask for input from all of you "non" BPD guys out there... .Two summers ago my ex BPDbf took me to dinner. There was karaoke and the song was "She's just too good to be true, can't take my eyes off of you". My ex BPDbf (bf at the time) serenaded me at the table. I thought it was romantic at the time.

I didn't know he suffered from BPD until I ended the encounter just this past June (4 years in total).

After dinner we then went back to my house to watch a movie. He was laying in my lap. I was holding back the fact for several weeks that I was upset over the fact that we didn't spent enough time together. So I asked him during his (20+) marriage, what types of things he and his ex wife enjoyed doing together. His response was, what kind of question is that! I said, well, like, did you ever run errands together, like on a Saturday? Or, go grocery shopping. To the mall? He said, no, why? I responded that me and my ex husband always did everything together. He sat bolt upright, raged at me and walked out.

It was the only fight we had ober the course of the 4 year encounter. I went after him to apologize (yeah, stupid I know!). When I got to his house he kept raging/yelling at me, saying then go back to your ex husband! I'm tired of hearing what a disappointment I am, I heard it throughout my entire marriage. He started ceying, went into his house and I got the silent treatment for 2 weeks.

My question is, if a girlfriend brought up wanting to spend more time together and referenced an ex husband (divorced 14 years) would a "non" guy have reacted the same way? Just curious! Thanks!

You only had one fight in four years?

[enlighten me]

If I had blown up everytime my ex mentioned one of her exs I would have spent half the relationship doing it. She constantly brought up her exs but I was never allowed to have had a past as she got upset.

[rockinne]

This has been bugging me for awhile, so I wanted to ask for input from all of you "non" BPD guys out there... .Two summers ago my ex BPDbf took me to dinner. There was karaoke and the song was "She's just too good to be true, can't take my eyes off of you". My ex BPDbf (bf at the time) serenaded me at the table. I thought it was romantic at the time.

I didn't know he suffered from BPD until I ended the encounter just this past June (4 years in total).

After dinner we then went back to my house to watch a movie. He was laying in my lap. I was holding back the fact for several weeks that I was upset over the fact that we didn't spent enough time together. So I asked him during his (20+) marriage, what types of things he and his ex wife enjoyed doing together. His response was, what kind of question is that! I said, well, like, did you ever run errands together, like on a Saturday? Or, go grocery shopping. To the mall? He said, no, why? I responded that me and my ex husband always did everything together. He sat bolt upright, raged at me and walked out.

It was the only fight we had ober the course of the 4 year encounter. I went after him to apologize (yeah, stupid I know!). When I got to his house he kept raging/yelling at me, saying then go back to your ex husband! I'm tired of hearing what a disappointment I am, I heard it throughout my entire marriage. He started ceying, went into his house and I got the silent treatment for 2 weeks.

My question is, if a girlfriend brought up wanting to spend more time together and referenced an ex husband (divorced 14 years) would a "non" guy have reacted the same way? Just curious! Thanks!

You only had one fight in four years?

I am curious as well.  One fight in 4 years with a BPD person seems pretty fortunate. 

[enlighten me]

My uBPD ex wife and I never fought but all the other BPD stuff was there. She was the waif type and manipulated rather than argue.

[Deeno02]

She always stalked her ex husband on FB, Instagram and Vine. Always b___ed about how he was spending money, where he was eating, who he was with, duh big time   . Then she continued to do so after the divorce, I only spoke up once and that was a dimur, "why do that to yourself". Still did it for the year and a half together. Maybe now with the replacement she stopped, but if not, it wont be me she looks at. I blocked her ass off everything...

[myself]

I was upset over the fact that we didn't spent enough time together.

He sat bolt upright, raged at me and walked out.

I got the silent treatment for 2 weeks.

My question is, if a girlfriend brought up wanting to spend more time together and referenced an ex husband (divorced 14 years) would a "non" guy have reacted the same way? Just curious! Thanks!

No, a person who is not disordered would probably not react that way.

A person who cared about spending time with you would not, either.

(Wanting it all but doing little to nothing/making it worse  =  )

[hope2727]

Just a thought. My ex-husband (from a lifetime ago and truly ancient history) taught me many wonderful things. One of the things that stayed with me was this.

"The relationships we have shape us. They are a part of our history. They have both good and bad. To deny them is to deny a part of ourselves. In some cases the bulk of our adult lives (referring to a long marriage). I would never want you to deny who you are or the stories that shaped the bulk of your life."



I was grateful and always felt comfortable sharing my previous relationships with him as he did with me. My pwBPD not so much. He was more bothered. Not in the beginning years when he was stable but later when he spiralled downward.

When we met he was finalizing a painful divorce. He had married young and been with her over 20 years. I made it VERY clear that he was always welcome to talk about his life with her and I looked forward to hearing his happy stories about his marriage. We were walking along a wind swept street at the time and he became very quiet. He expressed that he felt he would never feel positive about her again. I replied that 20 years had to have had been filled with happy memories as well as sad, and I looked forward to the day that he felt like sharing them. The silence continued awhile and then he told me the most  lovely story of a similar windy walk early in their marriage. I was honoured to share his memory. Over the next several years he did tell me many happy stories of his wife and kids. I was always glad to share them with him. I shared mine too until it became impossible with his reactions.

I would never want to be in a relationship where my life and stories were not allowed to be a part of me. I was with my ex-husband over a decade and my pwBPD 3 years. They both shaped who I am and I am grateful. I am by no means perfect but I am wonderful and I want to share all of me with anyone new. Just like I want them to share all of them.

Food for thought. 

[fromheeltoheal]

I responded that me and my ex husband always did everything together. He sat bolt upright, raged at me and walked out.

Remember the core of the disorder is fear of abandonment, and borderlines have a lot of shame at their core too, the result of abuse or neglect when they were young, the genesis of the disorder.  When you mentioned that you did everything with your ex husband together, he heard you were telling him your ex was better than him, he felt he was about to be abandoned, and he freaked out, since abandonment is the worst thing that could ever happen to a borderline.  That wasn't your intent, clearly, but that's how he interpreted it.

From my perspective, in the past girlfriends have compared me to an ex in a negative light, in an effort to manipulate me into doing whatever, and that is absolutely unacceptable; if she has to stoop to manipulation to get her needs met we have a major problem, and I consider being compared to an ex disrespectful.  Unless of course she's telling me I'm better than him in some way.  See how I am?  Anyway, what I would appreciate is if a woman wants to spend more time with me she says "I want to spend more time together."  What a concept.  And if I care about her, want what's best for her, and am willing to make her needs a priority, then I'll adjust to make her happy (all a man wants, really, for his woman to be happy) for the good of the relationship.  That doesn't mean I'm bending to her every whim, but if it's going well, why wouldn't I want to spend more time with her?

[Blimblam]

It's not about denying past relationships but no one likes being made to feel inadequate then compared to a past lover who did things right. It is passive aggressive and would trigger anyone.

[RedDove]

Thanks so much for all of your input and responses. They were very helpful in allowing me to sort through what might have been going on in my ex BPDbf's mind, or rather with his feelings.

I agree with many here, that our past relationships are a part of who we are and have shaoes us into the people we are today. My ex BPDbf was very open in the beginning (idealization) and wanted to know about my marriage and dating experiences post divorce. This is why I felt open to the reference about my ex husband and spending time together. Also, my ex BPDbf knew my ex husband cheated on me. He also was well aware of the fact that my ex husband has been living with the OW now for 14 years. Almost a common law marriage.

Yes, in four years that was the only time he raged at "me", yelled at me (scared me) we openly verbally fought, and he walked out. He's a high functioning BPD. At the end of the relationship he told me he had been in therapy for 12 years. Perhaps he learned coping tools to deal with his rages. He was very passive/aggressive. I hinestly dont know what to believe because he's a pathological liar.

On other occasions when I would try to approach him on important relationship matters, such as my needs (emotional), he would simply go quiet and give me the silent treatment as punishment. His punishment of choice was always the silent treatment (emotional abuse). He'd come back a few days or a week later acting as if nothing ever happened. He never raised his hand to me or got physical. He came accross as a sweet, innocent, naive little boy who needed to be loved.

So yes, I guess compared to many others here I was very fortunate/lucky in that sense. However, he was incapable of empathy, or understanding I had needs, as well as a pathological liar and cheater.

[mywifecrazy]

This has been bugging me for awhile, so I wanted to ask for input from all of you "non" BPD guys out there... .Two summers ago my ex BPDbf took me to dinner. There was karaoke and the song was "She's just too good to be true, can't take my eyes off of you". My ex BPDbf (bf at the time) serenaded me at the table. I thought it was romantic at the time.

I didn't know he suffered from BPD until I ended the encounter just this past June (4 years in total).

After dinner we then went back to my house to watch a movie. He was laying in my lap. I was holding back the fact for several weeks that I was upset over the fact that we didn't spent enough time together. So I asked him during his (20+) marriage, what types of things he and his ex wife enjoyed doing together. His response was, what kind of question is that! I said, well, like, did you ever run errands together, like on a Saturday? Or, go grocery shopping. To the mall? He said, no, why? I responded that me and my ex husband always did everything together. He sat bolt upright, raged at me and walked out.

It was the only fight we had ober the course of the 4 year encounter. I went after him to apologize (yeah, stupid I know!). When I got to his house he kept raging/yelling at me, saying then go back to your ex husband! I'm tired of hearing what a disappointment I am, I heard it throughout my entire marriage. He started ceying, went into his house and I got the silent treatment for 2 weeks.

My question is, if a girlfriend brought up wanting to spend more time together and referenced an ex husband (divorced 14 years) would a "non" guy have reacted the same way? Just curious! Thanks!

You only had one fight in four years?

I am curious as well.  One fight in 4 years with a BPD person seems pretty fortunate. 

Not that unusual if the person is a waif or hermit pwBPD. My UBPDXW was the waif type. We hardly had any fights or arguments in our 20yrs together. As a matter of fact she was telling me she loved me until the day I caught her in bed with my neighbor. Then after that I found out she was a totally different person (chameleon) when around other people, telling everyone who would listen that I was a mean ogre that beat on her. All to portray herself as a victim.

Don't know what's worse being raged at by a witch/queen or being hypnotized withs lies and manipulation by the chameleon like waif/hermit. Maybe I'll start a new thread?

MWC... .

[Blimblam]

This has been bugging me for awhile, so I wanted to ask for input from all of you "non" BPD guys out there... .Two summers ago my ex BPDbf took me to dinner. There was karaoke and the song was "She's just too good to be true, can't take my eyes off of you". My ex BPDbf (bf at the time) serenaded me at the table. I thought it was romantic at the time.

I didn't know he suffered from BPD until I ended the encounter just this past June (4 years in total).

After dinner we then went back to my house to watch a movie. He was laying in my lap. I was holding back the fact for several weeks that I was upset over the fact that we didn't spent enough time together. So I asked him during his (20+) marriage, what types of things he and his ex wife enjoyed doing together. His response was, what kind of question is that! I said, well, like, did you ever run errands together, like on a Saturday? Or, go grocery shopping. To the mall? He said, no, why? I responded that me and my ex husband always did everything together. He sat bolt upright, raged at me and walked out.

It was the only fight we had ober the course of the 4 year encounter. I went after him to apologize (yeah, stupid I know!). When I got to his house he kept raging/yelling at me, saying then go back to your ex husband! I'm tired of hearing what a disappointment I am, I heard it throughout my entire marriage. He started ceying, went into his house and I got the silent treatment for 2 weeks.

My question is, if a girlfriend brought up wanting to spend more time together and referenced an ex husband (divorced 14 years) would a "non" guy have reacted the same way? Just curious! Thanks!

You only had one fight in four years?

I am curious as well.  One fight in 4 years with a BPD person seems pretty fortunate. 

Not that unusual if the person is a waif or hermit pwBPD. My UBPDXW was the waif type. We hardly had any fights or arguments in our 20yrs together. As a matter of fact she was telling me she loved me until the day I caught her in bed with my neighbor. Then after that I found out she was a totally different person (chameleon) when around other people, telling everyone who would listen that I was a mean ogre that beat on her. All to portray herself as a victim.

Don't know what's worse being raged at by a witch/queen or being hypnotized withs lies and manipulation by the chameleon like waif/hermit. Maybe I'll start a new thread?

MWC... .

Please start that thread.  6 months out and I'm still attempting to untangle my mind on the manipulations from my waif ex.

[enlighten me]

Ex wife was a waif, exgf was a queen.

The waif hurt me more emotionally post break up as I didn't see it coming and we had never argued.

The queen hurt me more in the relationship and had me a down trodden nervous wreck by the end.

Sorry for going off thread there.

[maternal]

My ex was very waif and raged very few times in the four years we were together.  I can remember twice directed at me and once directed at his 4 year old son.  We rarely fought until the last few months together - that "I hate you / don't leave me" took it's toll on me, but when he cried and begged me not to go (for the second time in our relationship - the first time being two years prior), regardless of how unhappy I was at the time, I chose to stay... .for only five months more. 

I spoke very little of my ex's to him.  I didn't need to.  He spoke of his quite frequently, though, and we celebrated most holidays with his ex-wife, which was fine with me, because it's MUCH better for their son when they get along and do things together.  He did triangulate the ex-wife and I quite a bit, too.  On many occasions, he would ask me "are you jealous of my relationship with her?"  I wasn't, but I'm pretty sure that he wanted me to be.

[mywifecrazy]

I'm starting a new thread!

[hurting300]

Mine just manipulated me into anger. SHE rarely argued with me, it was me nailing her.

[Infern0]

No it wouldn't bother me at all.

My ex used to always be complaining about her exes and how mean they were.  It kind of just washed over me.

[shellbent]

Not that unusual if the person is a waif or hermit pwBPD. My UBPDXW was the waif type. We hardly had any fights or arguments in our 20yrs together. As a matter of fact she was telling me she loved me until the day I caught her in bed with my neighbor. Then after that I found out she was a totally different person (chameleon) when around other people, telling everyone who would listen that I was a mean ogre that beat on her. All to portray herself as a victim.

Don't know what's worse being raged at by a witch/queen or being hypnotized withs lies and manipulation by the chameleon like waif/hermit. Maybe I'll start a new thread?

MWC... .

Witch/queen was and intense but not satisfying relationship. Always trying to bring me down. No secrets though whatsoever. Anything on her mind was yelled at to me. It was much easier in the end to detach.

Waif/hermit started off intense, but she was passive-agressive, and pushed my buttons a couple of times. In all this still acted like someone fragile who can do no harm. Only fought once, and that lead to the breakup. Still cannot piece myself together. I guess it also depends on us. I am drawn to the damsel in distress, but I don't like to be controlled or manipulated.

If I could go total NC, I might be over her by now. But it was only a 9 month rs, and it ended almost 5 months ago. I can't just quit my job though.

In retrospect I was probably triggering my waif a lot of times, but it never got as bad as when she was under a lot of stress and I was losing my mind by her passive non-communicative style. A part of me wanted to be done with it, only to fall back into what I felt like I desperately needed.

[StillAlive]

Hi there RedDove.

I do not believe being upset by this kind of dialog is exclusive too any psychiatric disorder. I would feel upset if I were in the receiving end of your words. Our thoughts create our feelings and I think dredging up past relationships is an incredibly tactless decision. My feelings are neither right nor wrong, they simply are. As a non-BPD male, I'm equipped with better tools to deal with my feelings and not explode, rage, or do anything that denotes a person's sense of safety and security. Instead of behaving with borderline characteristic maybe I would handle myself in a mature manner; perhaps reassess my relationship and establish healthy boundaries. Boundaries speak towards what we're going with our own lives, rather than the lives of somebody else. Without these tools, people are liable to not make decisions for themselves and instead degrade or attempt to control the life of another.

That being said, I believe the raging and screaming can sometimes be characteristic of BPD.

[Mutt]

So I asked him during his (20+) marriage, what types of things he and his ex wife enjoyed doing together. His response was, what kind of question is that! I said, well, like, did you ever run errands together, like on a Saturday? Or, go grocery shopping. To the mall? He said, no, why? I responded that me and my ex husband always did everything together. He sat bolt upright, raged at me and walked out.

His ex was a big part of his life 20+ years. A very long history. You can't ignore that.

A BPD rage is an emotional cleansing.

BPD is an emotional based disorder and a lot of it is - intense insecurities, and feelings of low self worth, shame and guilt. The question triggered feelings.

You understand RedDove that she was a part of his life, it shows maturity and you weren't invalidating his ex.

If I were asked this question, it's fair. You got an emotionally immature response - an over-reaction, a tantrum. Emotional arrested development, he has the emotional equivalency of a toddler.

[Pingo]

I am a 'non' woman, not a man, but would like to comment.  I was not 'allowed' to speak of any past r/ss (other than my exh, my son's father, for some reason).  I couldn't even mention they existed!  I can get that the guy doesn't want to hear the dirty details of past r/ss but I wasn't even allowed to acknowledge them!  "The past should stay in the past".  This was somewhat a double standard though, he mentioned his although nothing terribly intimate.  I hated being censored.  Once I mentioned I was with a guy for half a year who's daughter was killed when I was with him.  It was terrible.  The part of the story he focused on?  That the guy was 20+yrs old than me.  He called him "a dirty old man".  Which he was certainly not! 

At the end of our 4 yr r/s (1 yr married) we were lying in bed talking about food poisoning for some reason.  I mentioned how I got food poisoning and was at a bf's house at the time.  I told him the story how my bf left for work and told me to stay as long as I wanted to but I got so sick I wanted to go to the hospital and I couldn't get a hold of him.  His son came home from school and checked in on me.  (This is where I made the mistake telling my story).  My UBPDexh asked me how old this guy was.  I said 39 (I was 22 at the time)... .Well, there began a 3 day ST!  Apparently I am immoral for having r/ss with older men and then how dare I tell him about them!  This was literally the straw that broke the camel's back. We had a big fight about it after the 3-day ST and I told him he was psycho and nuts and then he physically tried to toss me out of the bed.  I threatened to call the police and that was the end of our r/s.  It took me another 3 weeks to tell him I wanted to end it (I wanted to be calm and rational when I made the decision).

So after that experience I will be wary of anyone who tries to censor me again.  I can be respectful and sensitive and still mention my past r/ss.  That is healthy! 

[fromheeltoheal]

I can be respectful and sensitive and still mention my past r/ss.  That is healthy!

Yes, I agree.  A big issue for me is if there's still any emotional energy left.  I've made the mistake of jumping into a new relationship before I got over the last one, and it was obvious that I was still emotionally involved with whomever, and that was unfair to the new woman, the new relationship and to me.  Talking about a past relationship that is emotionally over and done is informational and innocuous, and really isn't an important conversation that takes much time.  But for a borderline, someone focused on attachments, relationships are never over, there's always a hope that all previous attachments are still in place on some level, even without communication for years; my ex would talk fondly of boyfriends from 15 years ago, in a way that would make me uncomfortable, which she enjoyed a little, so it's not a stretch to see how a borderline would assume the same of us and our exes.