Putting myself on trial - dissecting a failed relationship

[Want2know]

What is my crime?  Ignoring reality and the red flags that were there, and allowing myself to have deeper feelings for someone who was never going to reciprocate.  I have found myself in that situation more than once in my life.  I feel if I don't figure this out soon, I may be facing felony charges. 

The first step any good forensic psychologist would take is to determine what my mental state was when I first got involved.

Lonely, needing companionship and physical intimacy.  There is a term in forensic psychology called 'malingering'.  It is the thought that the person being evaluated may intentionally deceive or exaggerate their mental state.  In my case, I was deceitful, just not intentionally.  Deceitful in thinking I didn't want anything more and could handle what really was a friends with benefits situation, or as my T put it today 'fun and games in a closet'.  Gotta love her.

Last time I saw her was 2 weeks ago.  When she asked me, as she always does, "what do I remember from our last session?" I had to really think hard because it seemed like so much had happened.

Turns out it was just before I truly realized the r/s I had been in for almost a year was over.  It took me about a week to come to that conclusion, however much I hated it.  The last thing I shared with her was my list of expectations that if the r/s were to go on, would need to be met.  I knew when I created that list that he was never going to agree to it.

After catching her up on the past 2 weeks, she started asking me what my intellectual thoughts were about it and what my feelings were about it.  Intellectually, I realize that the r/s went south when I started wanting something more.  I was asking for interaction that he was not willing to give.  He was clear about that up front - I was the one to allow it grow in my heart and mind into something that it was never meant to be, now deceiving myself that he may want more, too.

That makes me angry, frustrated and disappointed on a few levels.

How could I have overlooked what was going on and make it more than what it really was?  I originally came to this site to detach from my previous relationship over 4 years ago, so I focused on the Leaving board primarily.  I dabbled in Personal Inventory, but never really focused on the Building New Relationships board until recently, as I had gone almost 2 years without being in one.  I had read so many posts on the Leaving board over the course of time and thought I had a handle on things, knowing I would recognize the signs and not let myself delve into another situation where I was going to wind up saying 'well, how the heck did I let that happen?'.  Yet, here I am.

My T said that I'm not the same person I was when I first engaged in this last r/s.  That I have learned a lot about what I want and what I don't want.  That's all good, but I am still angry.  Am I really not the same person?  Will I not find myself in this situation again?

She also was trying to point out that I tend to respond emotionally, in the moment, both for good and bad.  I triggered on the thought of having needs being met and I triggered on when I wasn't getting my needs met.  This, of course, made me think of the Wise Mind workshop on the site.  Being able to take what I know intellectually and balance out the emotional reaction to make decisions that will serve me in the long run.  I guess I'm not as good at that as I thought I was.

This is what Wise Mind allows you to do:

• Loosening the grip of habitual responses that cause (additional) suffering.

• Slowing the pace of thoughts/reactions.

• Reducing the intensity of unhelpful habitual responses.

• Increasing the spaciousness of present awareness.

• Noticing, enjoying and cultivating positive experiences and emotions

• Making connections that weren't there before. 

I'm working on it... .it's tough.  Tougher than I thought it was going to be.  :'(

[fromheeltoheal]

If I may W2K, it sounds like you have an anxious attachment style, like me.  We need a lot of assurances in relationships, that the relationship is solid, and being with someone with a secure attainment style can make us more secure, because those assurances come easily from someone with that style, among other things.  The other style, avoidant, is bad news for us, and is exactly what my ex did during the devaluation phase.  BPD is a personality disorder, not an attachment style, but the effect was the same.  And when we are feeling unsure of the bond, our go-to response is protest behavior, which can be a lot of things, but what it's not is open, honest, effective communication of our needs.

The other piece is to get selfish.  If one person in a relationship isn't happy, it's not a happy relationship, bottom line.  We define who we are through relationship with others, we are who we hang out with, and the relationship becomes something other than us, something between two people, that is only strong if both people are getting their needs met, and that only happens if we bring those needs and communicate them, and the other person is willing to meet them, and vice versa.

I know all too well unrequited love, and these days I have no time for it, in either direction.  We can't choose who we fall in love with, but we can choose to not fall in love with someone, and that's the key for me: if the relationship is not reciprocal, I'm out, life is too short.  Have you noticed yourself getting better at knowing early?

[Want2know]

And when we are feeling unsure of the bond, our go-to response is protest behavior, which can be a lot of things, but what it's not is open, honest, effective communication of our needs.

Protest behavior... .can you give me an example of this?  I think I know what you mean, but would like to hear more of your perspective on it.

I know all too well unrequited love, and these days I have no time for it, in either direction.  We can't choose who we fall in love with, but we can choose to not fall in love with someone, and that's the key for me: if the relationship is not reciprocal, I'm out, life is too short.  Have you noticed yourself getting better at knowing early?

This is what I recognized "If one person in a relationship isn't happy, it's not a happy relationship, bottom line."  I did start feeling anxious about the lack of stability, which made me unhappy and lead me back into therapy - finally to the point of realizing I wanted more, and then that was that - he didn't.  It obviously wasn't early enough for me to end it.  He was the one to withdraw completely, which now has me scratching my head in anger.  Anger towards me for allowing it to go too far, and anger at him for his immature withdrawal response.

I've been looking into my piece in this more, as I don't want to waste too much time assessing his personality or why he did what he did.  The aspect of introvert/extrovert personality type, related to what might make for a better r/s is something that intrigues me.

I took the Myers-Briggs personality test recently for work, and we were asked to state what we thought we were on each of the 4 scales before they gave us our results.  I guessed correctly on all of them except for the I/E one.  I thought I was more of an introvert, but the test result said I was more of an extrovert - deriving energy from interacting with people.  That surprised me at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I agreed, and I believe is related to your comments regarding needing assurance in a r/s.  He seemed to be more of an introvert, which made it more difficult to get that assurance.  Seems like in the future, it might be beneficial for me to stay away from introverts, as it poses too much of a challenge for me. 

Just for reference - here are the descriptions from the Myers-Briggs site*:

Extraversion (E)

I like getting my energy from active involvement in events and having a lot of different activities. I'm excited when I'm around people and I like to energize other people. I like moving into action and making things happen. I generally feel at home in the world. I often understand a problem better when I can talk out loud about it and hear what others have to say.


The following statements generally apply to me:

    I am seen as "outgoing" or as a "people person."

    I feel comfortable in groups and like working in them.

    I have a wide range of friends and know lots of people.

    I sometimes jump too quickly into an activity and don't allow enough time to think it over.

    Before I start a project, I sometimes forget to stop and get clear on what I want to do and why.

Introversion (I)

I like getting my energy from dealing with the ideas, pictures, memories, and reactions that are inside my head, in my inner world. I often prefer doing things alone or with one or two people I feel comfortable with. I take time to reflect so that I have a clear idea of what I'll be doing when I decide to act. Ideas are almost solid things for me. Sometimes I like the idea of something better than the real thing.

The following statements generally apply to me:

    I am seen as "reflective" or "reserved."

    I feel comfortable being alone and like things I can do on my own.

    I prefer to know just a few people well.

    I sometimes spend too much time reflecting and don't move into action quickly enough.

    I sometimes forget to check with the outside world to see if my ideas really fit the experience.

*www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/extraversion-or-introversion.htm

[fromheeltoheal]

Attachment theory has really been speaking to me lately, so I'm sort of seeing everything through that lens, and from your description it seems you have an anxious style and he has an avoidant one, a bad combo, since the anxious person needs reassurance and the avoidant one wants distance.

Here's an excerpt from the book 'Attached' on the protest behavior of someone with an anxious style.  I'm somewhere between parroting what I read and integrating it, as the lights come on.

Excessive attempts to reestablish contact:

• Calling , texting, or e-mailing many times, waiting for a phone call, loitering by your partner’s workplace in hopes of running into him/ her.

Withdrawing:

• Sitting silently “engrossed” in the paper, literally turning your back on your partner, not speaking, talking with other people on the phone and ignoring him/ her.

Keeping score:

• Paying attention to how long it took them to return your phone call and waiting just as long to return theirs; waiting for them to make the first “make-up” move and acting distant until such time. When Ryan decided not to leave a message for Shauna after she screened his calls, he was keeping score (“ If she’s not answering my calls, I won’t leave her a message”).

Acting hostile:

• Rolling your eyes when they speak, looking away, getting up and leaving the room while they’re talking (acting hostile can transgress to outright violence at times).

Threatening to leave:

• Making threats—“ We’re not getting along, I don’t think I can do this anymore,” “I knew we weren’t really right for each other,” “I’ll be better off without you”— all the while hoping s/ he will stop you from leaving.

Manipulations:

• Acting busy or unapproachable. Ignoring phone calls, saying you have plans when you don’t.

Making him/ her feel jealous:

• Making plans to get together with an ex for lunch, going out with friends to a singles bar, telling your partner about someone who hit on you today.


There's another side too.  We can fill our heads up with all the technical labels and analysis that psychological professionals use and put ourselves in predefined boxes, which does have some value as we try to make sense of our world.  And that value is limited for me.  There's also the kinesthetic approach; let fly with my truth, which is a whole lot easier and feels a lot better than keeping it in and trying to portray parts of myself that are applicable to a certain situation or relationship, blah, blah, constraining, and then see what I'm getting.  The see what I'm getting part is important: in the past I felt I had no core and would look outside myself for validation, and if people were invalidating I'd assume I was doing it 'wrong'.  So much easier to look inside for answers, because they're all there, everything we need is within us now, and then notice what I'm getting.  If it doesn't feel right and we value the relationship with whomever, bring it up, and if it isn't resolved to our satisfaction, maybe because the other person is avoidant and we need more than that, bail.  Just bail.  Life is too short for this bullsht and we deserve to be happy and content, for no other reason than we say so.  So there.  Take care of you!

[freedom33]

Excessive attempts to reestablish contact:

• Calling , texting, or e-mailing many times, waiting for a phone call, loitering by your partner’s workplace in hopes of running into him/ her.

Withdrawing:

• Sitting silently “engrossed” in the paper, literally turning your back on your partner, not speaking, talking with other people on the phone and ignoring him/ her.

Keeping score:

• Paying attention to how long it took them to return your phone call and waiting just as long to return theirs; waiting for them to make the first “make-up” move and acting distant until such time. When Ryan decided not to leave a message for Shauna after she screened his calls, he was keeping score (“ If she’s not answering my calls, I won’t leave her a message”).

Acting hostile:

• Rolling your eyes when they speak, looking away, getting up and leaving the room while they’re talking (acting hostile can transgress to outright violence at times).

Threatening to leave:

• Making threats—“ We’re not getting along, I don’t think I can do this anymore,” “I knew we weren’t really right for each other,” “I’ll be better off without you”— all the while hoping s/ he will stop you from leaving.

Manipulations:

• Acting busy or unapproachable. Ignoring phone calls, saying you have plans when you don’t.

Making him/ her feel jealous:

• Making plans to get together with an ex for lunch, going out with friends to a singles bar, telling your partner about someone who hit on you today.

I can't help but notice that most of these were symptoms of my xBPDgf. She was a mix of anxious and avoidant - I think Borderlines are in the disorganised attachment category -  that includes the 'best of the two worlds' which makes it the most challenging style of all. Also attachment styles can change over time depending on the person to whom we attach to.

Want2know - you seem to have really good insight and understanding on your situation. I think these experiences can teach us more and more about who we are and how we interact in the world. fromheeltoheal is right in saying between lines (or that's how I read it) that you can have some control on not falling in love with the 'wrong' person. It is difficult to change things we do to something else through action - but easier if we choose to not do these same things at all. Working through the via negativa. If e.g. you have mood swings the best way to manage them is not to control the downs but the ups. Not getting too high will regulate itself not getting too low - if that makes sense.

[Skip]

I've been looking into my piece in this more, as I don't want to waste too much time assessing his personality or why he did what he did.  The aspect of introvert/extrovert personality type, related to what might make for a better r/s is something that intrigues me.

Myers-Briggs is a conflict resolution tool.  Your relationship wasn't really steeped in conflict.  There was not enough passion on the other side for that from what I've read.  Are you thinking introvert/extrovert personality types differences are at the core of your relationship mismatch - that introverts, people on the "Introvert" side of the Myers-Briggs scale, are incompatible with people on the "Extrovert" side of the Myers-Briggs scale?  I don't think Myers-Briggs analysts would support this.  There are low conflict "E" and "I" pairings. There are 16 personality styles and clearly some are more compatible than others and a few are bad mixes. There are compatibility tests that can be done.  www.humanmetrics.com/infomate/infomatedemo.asp

Is the issue more about reading more into a relationship than is there?  Did he send really mixed messages, or did you read more into the relationship, week after week, than was there?

Does any of this list apply?

1. They’re not contacting you or are sporadically contacting you.

2. They may not even bother speaking with you and rely predominantly on emails, text messages, and instant messenger.

3. They treat you like an option.

4. They don’t want to put both of their feet in and commit. They’d like you to ‘go with the flow’ even if there is nothing flowing, and to expect nothing beyond this.

5. The relationship doesn’t progress – it goes in fits and starts, stalls, or goes into reverse.

6. They’re keeping you a secret.

7. They tend to be around/call you up when they want something. It might be money, attention, an ego stroke, sex, an armchair psychologist, but if you think back to all the times when you’ve heard from them, you may notice that it was a preamble to something.

8. They leave it to the last minute/short notice to make plans. They may not even bother to make last minute plans – they might just show up late at night expecting you to be around. Don’t be.

9. They create drama in the hope that you’ll take the hint that they’re not interested and end it, so that they can be let off the hook

10. When you’re broken up with them, they get in touch, often in a lazy manner just to ensure that you still jump to their beat. In fact, take the fact that you’re not in a relationship with them as a major sign of disinterest. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that they got in touch because they want to get back together.

11. They’ll make a lot of noise when you attempt to move on with someone else and then when you ‘reciprocate’, they’re nowhere to be seen.

12. They send text messages, emails, or leave voicemails, and when you no doubt eagerly respond, they either take ages to or don’t bother at all.

13. They don’t break up with their wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend. But they still expect to be with you. Hell, they seem to think you have all the time in the frickin’ world to be waiting around for them.

14. They don’t get that divorce finalised. In fact, they may even pretend they’ve started proceedings!

15. They keep blaming timing, the no 5 bus, work, their ex, their commitment issues, or whatever the excuse du jour is, for why they can’t be or do something. In fact, they keep making excuses.

16. They’re sporadic in their efforts, and you can often pin bursts of efforts to when you either told them to beat it or they felt in danger of losing you.

17. They keep changing their mind about their interest in you. Flip-flapper alert!

18. They talk incessantly about themselves while not really taking an interest in you. OR… they deflect conversations away from details about themselves and try to focus on you.

19. They tell you that they love you but they’re not in love with you, that they’re not ready for a relationship, they’re not the right person for you, that they’re a ‘bad person’, ‘out of your league’, that you’re ‘too good for them’ and other such things that basically say I have limited interest in you.

20. They sleep with other people while sleeping with you.

21. They only have a sexual interest in you.

22. It takes them weeks or even months to call you up after a date or taking your number.

23. You’re hanging out like friends. You may even be friends with benefits.

24. They disappear for periods of time.

25. They’re more interested in having things their way, on their terms, being right, and having the power.

26. They treat you without love, care, trust, and respect. Even if you don’t love one another yet, it shouldn’t stop them from being a respectful person with integrity that cares about their actions and those around them.

27. They treat everyone from the old lady down the street, to the postman, the dog and whoever else has no romantic expectations of them with decency, but when it comes to you, they’re an assclown.

28. They’re either Future Avoiders, afraid to talk about the future or make plans, or they’re Future Fakers, faking a future so they can get what they want in the present, because they know they won’t be around in the future, because they’re not genuinely interested.

29. They are controlling, manipulative, jealous and possessive. These are not signs that they’re actually interested in you – these are signs that they want to control you. This is not the same as love or as a result of love. A person who behaves in this way isn’t the type to have a balanced, respectful relationship, and may not even really want you but won’t want anyone else to have you either.

30. They’re so ‘busy’, they have no time for the relationship. Nobody is that busy and when someone is genuinely interested they find the time.

[fred6]

Skip, what do the items on that list signify?

[Skip]

Skip, what do the items on that list signify?

Possible warning signs that a person may not be that in to the relationship (anymore).

[Bak86]

Skip, what do the items on that list signify?

Possible warning signs that a person may not be that in to the relationship (anymore).

A lot of it applies to my relationship i had with my ex.

[maric]

This list makes me question wheter my ex was really BPD or just not interested in me... .Sometimes I think that maybe I am just trying to find a excuse for the fact that she did not want to be with me anymore.

[Want2know]

I think these experiences can teach us more and more about who we are and how we interact in the world.

Amen to that! 

... .you can have some control on not falling in love with the 'wrong' person.

I think this is where I took a wrong turn.  I didn't anticipate falling in love with him.  I was a bit blind-sided by his advances, and over time it just happened - it was filling a need for me, and he was continuing to want to be together, regardless of his motives (per Skip's long list).  Had I not been feeling so alone in a new city, things might have been different. 

Myers-Briggs is a conflict resolution tool.  Your relationship wasn't really steeped in conflict.  There was not enough passion on the other side for that from what I've read.  Are you thinking introvert/extrovert personality types differences are at the core of your relationship mismatch - that introverts, people on the "Introvert" side of the Myers-Briggs scale, are incompatible with people on the "Extrovert" side of the Myers-Briggs scale?

Per the Myers-Briggs website, "The purpose of the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator® (MBTI®) personality inventory is to make the theory of psychological types described by C. G. Jung understandable and useful in people's lives." 

I'm sure it's used for conflict resolution.  I also see it as a way to better understand myself and others personalities for more general interactive purposes - not necessarily conflict resolution. 

Personally, I'd prefer my partner to be more on the extrovert side.  Not extreme, but who enjoys being around people, is comfortable in groups, etc.  This was not how he was from what I experienced and from what he told me.

Is the issue more about reading more into a relationship than is there?  Did he send really mixed messages, or did you read more into the relationship, week after week, than was there?

I'm sure some of it was reading between the lines incorrectly, and some of it was mixed messages - perhaps more fleeting fantasy comments vs. things he really wanted to commit to.

[Skip]

I'm sure some of it was reading between the lines incorrectly, and some of it was mixed messages - perhaps more fleeting fantasy comments vs. things he really wanted to commit to.

So maybe some was you, but most was him?

What did he do that was in the FWB column and what is in the committed relationship column?

[Want2know]

What did he do that was in the FWB column and what is in the committed relationship column?

I think this is my main issue is that it didn't seem that black and white.  We did primarily hang out in my apartment and not with others, but I saw this as part of his introvert side.  When we did go out together, he was affectionate as a committed partner would be - holding my hand, kissing me without reservation, treating me like his girlfriend.  He even 'forced' me to do a karaoke song with him one night when we were out playing pool, and he chose 'Endless Love' for us to sing.  A very romantic song.  I wouldn't consider a FWB situation to have those elements.

He said he was a loner, and primarily was a homebody - I believe him.  He didn't strike me as someone to lie to get what they wanted or to manipulate my feelings so I would continue to be with him.  He was more of the withdrawal/non-response type when he couldn't bring himself to do something that was uncomfortable, and probably a big reason why he had a drinking problem.  He seemed to be an introvert who felt uncomfortable around people and drank to feel more comfortable.  Unfortunately, he's in a profession (musician) where playing in public is the norm.  He always drank before/during his gigs to muster up the courage.  He preferred to and was/is trying to record his music on his own, at home, and wanted to make money by selling his songs for commercial use.  I got the impression he didn't like playing in public, but because that's what his father does and is the industry norm, he was trying to follow that path, even if it was uncomfortable for him and he drank to get through it.

I said I didn't want to analyze him, but I also am trying to give a better description of why I felt it was more than just FWB.  He had very dysfunctional coping methods and what seemed to be a lot of shame.  He was always apologizing unnecessarily.  His family life was very messy - parents divorced when he was 9, sister who did heroin who is currently in jail, controlling mother, father who abandoned them, etc.  I honestly think that he didn't think he deserved to be in a committed relationship - he even said to me one time when we were first acknowledging our feelings for each other that it scared him and he was so afraid his drinking was going to get in the way of a serious relationship, which is why he said he didn't want to be serious.  He was the one to say I love you first.  It wasn't a 'hey, love ya' - I could tell he meant it and it kind of shocked me.  I didn't say it back to him that time.  Eventually I did when I finally felt it.

He was also the one to start the discussion of living together and how nice that would be after a great weekend we had when it was time for him to finally go home.  I think that was more of a fleeting fantasy thought, and that many of his comments were in the moment vs. thought of when we weren't together.  He was the one to say he wanted me to meet his mother, and that he thought we would like each other.  He said a bunch of things that made me think that he thought more of us than just FWB - again, perhaps a fleeting fantasy for him, as he didn't think he could have a real relationship, and maybe didn't want one.  I don't know.  His statements threw me off, and is why it lead me down the path to finally confront him with being serious, which is when he went to jail, came out and then withdrew completely.  From what I can tell he is holed up at home, working on his music alone.  It's really kind of sad, which defuses the anger I have towards him for withdrawing.

Why I would consider it overall to be friends with benefits is that he just couldn't be serious for whatever reasons.  I let that slide for a long time, as we always had great times together and I really enjoyed him.

I have to say that after my last post, I felt some kind of closure.  It is really apparent to me that he is not what I want for a partner, and that I was in a vulnerable/unstable state when we first started being together.  That rang a bell for me regarding the r/s that originally brought me to this site.  I was super vulnerable when I met him.  The lesson for me being that I do not make wise decisions in relationship partners when I'm feeling vulnerable and that I need to create a fulfilling, stable life for me first before I tackle any serious relationship.  I do feel much more stable in my life now, and probably is a big reason why I was ready to ask him to be more committed.  Like I said before, it just wasn't meant to be.  Lovely times, memories and lessons to get me to the next step.

[myself]

Wondering if part of putting yourself on trial is from feeling rejected? You loved him. His opinion means something. When someone lets go like that, despite their apparent flaws and issues, reasons stated or unspoken, we can tend to take it on and think it was something about us that caused them to let go. Not saying that it is this time, but I think in the area of rejection is where a lot of pain comes from when a r/s ends. Feeling like being abandoned.

[Fluff]

That whole list applies to my ex, but add very intense expressions of "love" from her side. If it wasn't for that, and maybe the self-destructiveness, fear of abandonment and suicide threats, I wouldn't be here I think.

Sorry, I read Skips list and had to write down my thoughts...

[Want2know]

I think in the area of rejection is where a lot of pain comes from when a r/s ends. Feeling like being abandoned.

Yeah, definitely.  That hurts.

I put myself on trial because the feeling is that I did something wrong.  I ignored the warning signs and repeated a pattern.  Basing judgment on the facts is what jurors are told to do in a trial.  He is much younger than I, has a drinking problem, is not financially stable, told me he didn't want to be serious, and had a pattern of withdrawing and not communicating with me outside of when we saw each other.  If someone were to list those facts and ask me if I wanted to be in a r/s with this person I would say 'heck no!'. 

The list for my exNPDbf, the r/s I was in prior to this recent one, had a few similarities (alcohol, withdrawal, not financially stable), but was much more dysfunctional, adding in verbal/physical abuse, suicidal threats/attempts and severe anger issues.  I think because those things were absent with the more recent guy, and when we were together we always had really amazing times, filling some basic needs, I let myself go down a path with him without thinking it through.

As my T said, I tend to act on my emotional needs, in the moment.  I need to get better at not doing that. 

[seeking balance]

Kudos for digging deep and getting really honest  

As my T said, I tend to act on my emotional needs, in the moment.  I need to get better at not doing that.  

Well, the good news is DBT skills work exactly for that - putting these tools into practice daily works in changing reactive behavior.

Do you and your T have a plan to use the DBT workbook?  If not, what is the plan?

[Want2know]

No plan yet, although she has been working with me on some techniques to label and defuse emotions when they do not serve me. 

I started thinking about what the difference or correlation between emotions and instincts are, and how that effects behavior.  I've been doing a little reading about it and have no definitive answer.  There are references to Darwin and DBT, amongst many others, regarding this topic.

My take away, for now, is that instincts are inborn and emotions are learned based upon experience, however, I'm sure it's not that cut and dry and that there is a correlation.  For example, if someone is coming at you with a knife, your instinct to survive should kick in, and the emotion that might surface from that would be anger - anger to fight back - or fear, which might facilitate your instinct to run.

The reason I am wondering about instincts and emotions and their connection, is how do you distinguish when an emotional response may be protecting you (affiliated with a 'valid' survival instinct) and when it might not be serving you (an instinct that has not evolved).

Just some questions to ponder... .