Getting past the desire to hurt them back or make them understand

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

One of the things that I have struggled with on and off through my 18 years with my husband is the desire to hurt him back. Yes, it is childish. Yes, there have been times when I have actually done stupid or crazy stuff to try to hurt him (emotionally) or get his attention or something, anything. Most days, I am fine and feel detached.

The last day or two we have been having conversations about ending our marriage. I know he is disordered, etc. but that does not mean that I can't want him to understand WHY what he has done all of these years hurts so much. He has no desire to try to do much of anything. When am I going to get it through my thick skull that he is not going to put in the effort to try to keep his family together? H has no desire to do anything that is going to require him to put forth any kind of major effort.

I am not like him, I can't sit back and do things so quietly and passive aggressively. When I lose it, I feel like I turn into a mega b**ch. Sometimes, I catch myself and find healthier ways of venting. How have some of you dealt with the feelings of wanting to hurt them or at least find a way to make them understand how much they have hurt you?

Would anybody be willing to share some of their not so proud moments of when YOU dysregulated? I can share some of mine later. I am trying to deal with my own demons. To heck with his!  

[vortex of confusion]

One of the things that I have struggled with on and off through my 18 years with my husband is the desire to hurt him back. Yes, it is childish. Yes, there have been times when I have actually done stupid or crazy stuff to try to hurt him (emotionally) or get his attention or something, anything. Most days, I am fine and feel detached.

The last day or two we have been having conversations about ending our marriage. I know he is disordered, etc. but that does not mean that I can't want him to understand WHY what he has done all of these years hurts so much. He has no desire to try to do much of anything. When am I going to get it through my thick skull that he is not going to put in the effort to try to keep his family together? H has no desire to do anything that is going to require him to put forth any kind of major effort.

I am not like him, I can't sit back and do things so quietly and passive aggressively. When I lose it, I feel like I turn into a mega b**ch. Sometimes, I catch myself and find healthier ways of venting. How have some of you dealt with the feelings of wanting to hurt them or at least find a way to make them understand how much they have hurt you?

Would anybody be willing to share some of their not so proud moments of when YOU dysregulated? I can share some of mine later. I am trying to deal with my own demons. To heck with his!  

[Bak86]

I actually never wanted to hurt my ex. I only ignored her a couple of times, tried to make her jealous on purpose etc., but never actually want to hurt her like she hurt me. Friends of mine still want to encourage me to play pranks on her, steal stuff from her as a joke etc. but that would make me just as bad as her and i'm not that person.

[vortex of confusion]

I actually never wanted to hurt my ex. I only ignored her a couple of times, tried to make her jealous on purpose etc., but never actually want to hurt her like she hurt me. Friends of mine still want to encourage me to play pranks on her, steal stuff from her as a joke etc. but that would make me just as bad as her and i'm not that person.

Trying to make them jealous fits under trying to hurt them. :-)

Most of my friends and family discourage any kind of bad behavior. I have text bombed him a time or two when I knew he was out at a reunion where I suspected that he was going to try to make a move on a classmate. Another time, I harassed him on FB to the point where he had to block me.

The context of the FB incident is that we were attempting to have an open relationship. He would want to hand pick guys for me even though I did NOT want to have multiple relationships with multiple men. I was looking for friendship but he kept trying to make it into something else. So, he was going through my emails with me and we were discussing things. At one point, he said something along the lines of "I really like that guy. I like that he said he will clean you up before he sends you home." After a whole lot of months of my husband trying to push me off on whatever guy might want to get busy with me, I had enough. I went on FB and posted: "Free wife. All you need to do is clean her up before you send her home. For details, contact Mr. Vortex." I bombed him hard on FB that day. I know that what I did wasn't right but I didn't know how else to deal with the nightmare of my husband not only wanting me to be with other men but getting excited about it. At one point, he was encouraging me to be rather promiscuous. I am not a promiscuous person at all. I will be a slut for my husband but nobody else. I had spent 15 years being completely devoted to him without ever straying. I had spent all of these years supporting him and helping him and here he was trying to give me away to whatever guy would have me.

[clydegriffith]

I used to feel the same way and still do to some regard. I've actually thought that the absolute worst thing i can do to her is get custody my child but i need some time to get my life together before that i can even entertain that possibility. The joy i would get from hurting her in that manner can not be articulated.

[Deeno02]

Not worth my time. One day she will wake up and realize the love she was looking for was right there beside her. It just wasnt good enough... .

[vortex of confusion]

Not worth my time. One day she will wake up and realize the love she was looking for was right there beside her. It just wasnt good enough... .

I have days like that too! I would say that is how I feel on most days. It is the rough days like today that I have to work on keeping those thoughts and feelings at bay.

Frankly, I don't think mine will ever wake up and realize that I was the love he was looking for because I don't think I was what he wanted. I can see that in hindsight but I couldn't see it at the time. He wouldn't even ask me to be his girlfriend all of those years ago. I am the one that said, "Are we boyfriend and girlfriend or what?" If I hadn't been the one to make it official, things probably never would have progressed to us getting married.

[Deeno02]

Not worth my time. One day she will wake up and realize the love she was looking for was right there beside her. It just wasnt good enough... .

I have days like that too! I would say that is how I feel on most days. It is the rough days like today that I have to work on keeping those thoughts and feelings at bay.

Frankly, I don't think mine will ever wake up and realize that I was the love he was looking for because I don't think I was what he wanted. I can see that in hindsight but I couldn't see it at the time. He wouldn't even ask me to be his girlfriend all of those years ago. I am the one that said, "Are we boyfriend and girlfriend or what?" If I hadn't been the one to make it official, things probably never would have progressed to us getting married.

Same here. I had to ask her. Plus, she never changed FB status, or posted a picture of us. Red flag now that Im removed from it all

[Heartbroken Eagle]

When we originally broke up, I was still angry about being cheated on, lied and abused. Hence, everytime she tried to contact me either by phone or by text, I would reply to her in an aggressive manner calling her names. As this was the first time in 12 years I had even said anything remotely nasty to her, I knew she would be shocked and hurt. She was not as emotionally tough as she made out to be. I was also hoping to show her how much her actions almost ruined me... .

However, I know she used this as justfication in her having her affair to her future husband by saying how horrible and nasty I am!

I've now calmed down and regretted this action. I realised now that the best reaction is to try to live a happier, healthier life, which I am aiming to. I can tell that she is jealous of the relationship I have with my son and that he cannot wait for his weekends with me.

And for the 2nd Xmas running, he wants to spend it with me!

[vortex of confusion]

Same here. I had to ask her. Plus, she never changed FB status, or posted a picture of us. Red flag now that Im removed from it all

I friggin' hate social media. Our relationship started well before social media. 

But, I did notice how he rarely posts about me and the kids. I am always posting family pictures and he just shares them. I don't think he ever really posted a picture of me until I noticed it and made the observation to him. Then, he would take cheesy pictures of me and post them with crap like, "Having lunch with my beautiful wife." It seemed so insincere and disingenuous. The funniest part was one of the ladies he had been talking to liked it and commented on it. Oh man, did that make me angry.

[StayOrLeave15]

I've been tempted to put things on social media that might upset her but to me that is technically a violation of NC so I have kept her blocked in every way that I can.

Truly cruel thoughts have crossed my mind, things that I know would hurt her emotionally beyond belief.  But I don't like these thoughts and I would never act on them.  Doing so is morally wrong (no matter how much she has hurt/destroyed me) and would also be a form of breaking NC, which I am committed to not do. 

[antelope]

if you really want to hurt them, do nothing.

for somebody whose value is predicated by the amount and type of attention they receive, nothing can be as devastating as being completely ignored by someone who knows them well.  it reawakens the very foundation of their abandonment fears.

[Deeno02]

if you really want to hurt them, do nothing.

for somebody whose value is predicated by the amount and type of attention they receive, nothing can be as devastating as being completely ignored by someone who knows them well.  it reawakens the very foundation of their abandonment fears.

Hmm, Interesting, Please go on... .

[clydegriffith]

When we originally broke up, I was still angry about being cheated on, lied and abused. Hence, everytime she tried to contact me either by phone or by text, I would reply to her in an aggressive manner calling her names. As this was the first time in 12 years I had even said anything remotely nasty to her, I knew she would be shocked and hurt. She was not as emotionally tough as she made out to be. I was also hoping to show her how much her actions almost ruined me... .

However, I know she used this as justfication in her having her affair to her future husband by saying how horrible and nasty I am!

I've now calmed down and regretted this action. I realised now that the best reaction is to try to live a happier, healthier life, which I am aiming to. I can tell that she is jealous of the relationship I have with my son and that he cannot wait for his weekends with me.

And for the 2nd Xmas running, he wants to spend it with me!

I did this too. I have a child with the BPDx so we have to maintain some sort of contact and the first year or year and half i would get on her really bad if she said the slightest thing and of course that just led to huge fights. I don't do that anymore. I know what she is and calling her names and other stuff does me zero good.

[Mutt]

How have some of you dealt with the feelings of wanting to hurt them or at least find a way to make them understand how much they have hurt you

I can't make a mentally ill person understand. I had to let go.

if you really want to hurt them, do nothing.

for somebody whose value is predicated by the amount and type of attention they receive, nothing can be as devastating as being completely ignored by someone who knows them well.  it reawakens the very foundation of their abandonment fears.

Hmm, Interesting, Please go on... .

A pwBPD live with intolerable pain from their original core wound of abandonment. Knowing that the person in my life with borderline traits has to walk around with this every day, I didn't have feelings of wanting to hurt her. Years of conflict and arguing was enough. I had the need to let go in high conflict situations and people and learn how to deal with it differently. I didn't want to deal with my feelings and someone else's feelings (projections) I knew I could do better and that there is a different way. Let go or be dragged.

I feel better, less anxious, and happier when I take the high road and not get caught up in drama or conflict. I feel like I've discovered the person that I am and not one has the need to engage. If someone feels bad, says something emotionally immature or tries to stir things up, that's on them and it's also on me if I choose to engage. It took time to recognize my triggers and to change my habits and I'm happy that I did.

I feel at peace.

[vortex of confusion]

I can't make a mentally ill person understand. I had to let go.

I know this to be true on an intellectual level.  How long did it take for you to let go? Where there something specific that happened to help you let go? Most days, I am fine. Other days, not so much.

I feel better, less anxious, and happier when I take the high road and not get caught up in drama or conflict. I feel like I've discovered the person that I am and not one has the need to engage. If someone feels bad, says something emotionally immature or tries to stir things up, that's on them and it's also on me if I choose to engage. It took time to recognize my triggers and to change my habits and I'm happy that I did.

I feel at peace.

Is there any specific that you did to help you identify triggers? I think I am feeling triggered today because of some of the things that he said last night as we were discussing the fate of our relationship. It brought up a lot of wounds for me. I am trying to sort through things in a healthy manner and NOT give in and do some of the childish things that I used to do in the past.

[Mutt]

For myself it took several months, while I was in minimal contact. Rome was not built in a day. The first step was minimal contact to detach. I was grieving and I was also detaching. I went through the lessons on the board and worked through my feelings. I will have to give credit to Tara Brach's "Radical Acceptance" as it helped me with acceptance of pain, trauma and letting go.

I'll give you an example with triggers. I read a lot about BPD during detachment and came to understand how the disorder works and that my ex does what she does due to the disorder. That being said, I simply stopped responding to emotionally immature attacks and focused on responding to just the kids. Emotionally immature responses triggered me. It was tough, it took practice and time for the triggers to dissipate. Mindfulness helped me with recentering myself and the anxiety and anger associated with my triggers.

All things learned here on bpdfamily. Things that bothered me before I got here, I don't give a second thought. It is not to say I don't get stressed at times, I feel like I let go of 90% of my stress levels.

[fred6]

I've toyed with the idea. She sort of just got rid of me quietly and swept her lying, cheating, and abusive behavior under the rug. Most people probably don't even know why I'm gone. She tried to keep her "Godly" good person image squeaky clean.

However, I have pictures of her cheating FB and text messages. I have phone recordings of her talking $hit about friends and family members that she acts like she likes when she's around them. I have her text messages she sent me about her saying that she lied and cheated on me. After she cheated on me and dumped me I made sure that I saved most electronic communications in case the question of "what happened" ever came in to question.

I could post all of that to FB. We have 150 mutual friends, and I could set privacy to friends of friends. I know it would make me look like a douche, but it would also make her look like the sick individual that she is. She would probably have to shut down her FB account for a period of time due to shame and embarrassment. I don't do much on FB, so everyone could de-friend me and I wouldn't really care, but she's a facebookaholic

Would I ever do it? Most likely not. But in the event that she gets out of line or something, I wouldn't hesitate to bluff her and let her know that I had all of that info and that I would post it. In the end, I don't even think that I'll ever need any of that stuff. I'm sure that she just wants me and everything else about our relationship to go away forever. That sounds good to me... .

[Mutt]

Hi fred6,

Let's say in the event that you did that with your electronic proof. Sometimes when a pwBPD is under great anxiety and stress they may begin a smear campaign to dissociate their feelings. Who wins?

Getting swept under the rug as if what you had didn't exist is truly painful. You suffered a tremendous loss. Work through those feelings.

A lot of the behaviors from a pwBPD is due to emotional immaturity. They say hurtful things and you raise a good point fred6. Often I find that they're bluffs, to get a reaction, to see if you are still emotionally invested. That being said, it is better to learn how to cope with people that are emotionally immature as to not get caught up with feelings of resentment and anger. They may feel low self worth, low self esteem and badly about themselves and want others to feel as they do. Don't stoop to their level. Take the high road. Learn to depersonalize and become indifferent.

[fred6]

Hi fred6,

Let's say in the event that you did that with your electronic proof. Sometimes when a pwBPD is under great anxiety and stress they may begin a smear campaign to dissociate their feelings. Who wins?

Getting swept under the rug as if what you had didn't exist is truly painful. You suffered a tremendous loss. Work through those feelings.

A lot of the behaviors from a pwBPD is due to emotional immaturity. They say hurtful things and you raise a good point fred6. Often I find that they're bluffs, to get a reaction, to see if you are still emotionally invested. That being said, it is better to learn how to cope with people that are emotionally immature as to not get caught up with feelings of resentment and anger. They may feel low self worth, low self esteem and badly about themselves and want others to feel as they do. Don't stoop to their level. Take the high road. Learn to depersonalize and become indifferent.

Mutt, I'm getting to know you pretty good. I anticipated this response from you while I was typing that post. That's why I bolded "could" in my post above. I hope by now you know me a little better than that, .

This was more of a hypothetical. But like I said, I don't see myself ever doing anything like that, because deep down I don't really want to hurt her, I know she's sick. The most I could ever see myself doing is bluffing her and telling her that I had the information and that I would post it. And it would take a hell of a lot for me to even do that. Before I was really into this whole knowing about "BPD" process I figured with all the deflection and rewriting of the facts, that it was good to have all my bases covered in case the question ever arose as to what really went down between us. Facts are facts. Your posts and insight is always appreciated Mutt.

[Mutt]

Mutt, I'm getting to know you pretty good. I anticipated this response from you while I was typing that post. That's why I bolded "could" in my post above. I hope by now you know me a little better than that, .

I don't really want to hurt her, I know she's sick.

That's the jist of it 

I want you to know fred6 that I can relate when a significant other pulls a vanishing act. It gets better.


Hang in there.


--Mutt

[fred6]

I don't really want to hurt her, I know she's sick.

That's the jist of it  

I said that I don't want to hurt her. I never said anything about making her uncomfortable. I'm NC, but in the event I see her or have contact. I have 4 words for you. "Kill 'em with kindness". I've actually found that works much better. For some reason, it eats them up on the inside. Plus, at the end of the day, I can say that I took the high road

I want you to know fred6 that I can relate when a significant other pulls a vanishing act. It gets better. But you get the picture


Hang in there.


--Mutt

Well, she didn't run off and vanish. She's still where she always was. She just kicked me out and ran me off like a stray animal, haha.

[Mutt]

 

The last day or two we have been having conversations about ending our marriage.

Back on topic.

vortex of confusion,

You and your H live together. Someone has to be first. Have you read this staff article adapated from The High Conflict Couple by Alan E. Fruzzetti, Ph.D? It has information on anticipating our impulses and rehearsing a new emotional response.

Before you can make things better, you have to stop making things worse - Staff Article

[vortex of confusion]

The last day or two we have been having conversations about ending our marriage.

Back on topic.

vortex of confusion,

You and your H live together. Someone has to be first. Have you read this staff article adapated from The High Conflict Couple by Alan E. Fruzzetti, Ph.D? It has information on anticipating our impulses and rehearsing a new emotional response.

Before you can make things better, you have to stop making things worse - Staff Article

I have read several things about stopping the cycle of conflict. I started out on the staying boards because I originally wanted to try to make things work. I have given up on that idea because I do not think I can do that level of work over an extended period of time. I am exhausted after 16.5 years of marriage and 4 kids. I moved over hear after he was gone for a weekend and I saw how much more relaxed and peaceful things are for me and the kids when he is not around.

So far, I feel like I am doing pretty good at keeping things pretty low conflict. When I did the juvenile things that I did in the past, it was a result of frustration and not having any coping skills. I had done everything that I thought I was supposed to do as far as being a good wife. I have been reading up on sex addiction and how to improve our relationship for years. I stayed baffled because nothing I did seemed to work. It wasn't until I found this site that I got information that made sense. It wasn't until I found this site that I found coping tools that actually seemed to lessen the conflict. Prior to finding this site, I held out hope that maybe I could find the right recipe to make things better. Now, my hope is to keep the conflict down and create peace until such time that we can part ways. I am trying to build myself back up and find better ways to cope than I did in the past.

While driving to work today, I was reflecting on this thread and some of the other stuff that I have read here. And I was thinking about how I handled break ups in the past. I don't recall ever resorting to the level of juvenile behavior that I have with my husband. I kept my head about me when the one guy was coming to my work and leaving notes on my car all the time. I did not stoop to that level at all. I am really disappointed in myself for my own behavior. Today's post was prompted by me recognizing how messed up things have gotten. I could feel myself starting to lose touch again. The feelings of rejections, abandonment, frustration, hurt, anger, and a whole bunch of other stuff flooded over me this morning and I needed to talk about them and get them out in a healthy way rather than saying or doing anything that I might regret.

I think one of the things that contributed to me getting so far from who I am is the isolation. I feel like I lost all touch with reality there for a while. It feels really good to feel like I have regained my ability to think more clearly and have a lot more self control.

[Mutt]

I'm happy to hear that the thread made you reflect during your commute. You were married for almost 17 years.

That's a long history vortex of confusion and you were isolated for many years not being able to put your finger on what the issue was in the marriage. There are a lot of moving pieces in relationships and there's no single reason as to why they break down, and there are a series of events. You start to feel contempt for each other. I can relate to this article and it's explanation of the four stages that a relationship breaks down "The Four Horsemen Of the Apocalypse"

Is Your Relationship Breaking Down?

I''m happy to hear that you feel like things are calmer and more peaceful when your H is not around. It must feel like you're at a happier place. Don't be hard on yourself   with the impulses, sometimes our partners know how to push our buttons. You were / are dealing with a difficult personality disorder and were isolated for many years and didn't know.

I think the important thing to recognize is the triggers and take ownership of our actions and learn and grow from these experiences to better ourselves. Find forgiveness for you.

[vortex of confusion]

I'm happy to hear that the thread made you reflect during your commute. You were married for almost 17 years.

Right now, I am not sure how much longer it is going to last. Because of kids and finances and a host of other reasons, there is no way that we either of us can move out right now.

That's a long history vortex of confusion and you were isolated for many years not being able to put your finger on what the issue was in the marriage. There are a lot of moving pieces in relationships and there's no single reason as to why they break down, and there are a series of events. You start to feel contempt for each other. I can relate to this article and it's explanation of the four stages that a relationship breaks down "The Four Horsemen Of the Apocalypse"

I am trying to figure out when the contempt started. I think it may have been bubbling under the surface for years and has only come to a head in the last year or so. I really think I started to have feelings of contempt for him when he had to resign for looking at porn at work. We had only been married 4 or 5 years at the time. He stopped looking at porn but the underlying issues were never directly addressed and festered under the surface. When he got fired/resigned, our oldest was around 2. I think it was at that point that I stepped into the caretaker roll. From there, we went on to have 3 more kids. Having kids was a great distraction so that neither one of us really had to deal with the underlying issues. He wasn't dealing with his addictions/compulsions. Yes, he quit looking at porn but he would still obsess over things and find other ways to distract himself that kept him from checking in.

Is Your Relationship Breaking Down?

Oh my goodness! This article describes very succinctly what has been happening over the years. I think I am slower than most because it took me a really long time to get to a point where I could say "Enough!". The quote from the article that is most meaningful to me is:



Basically compatible partners may demonstrate a whole lot of conflict, but they don't often become contemptuous and angry with their partners, because there are by definition few things that they will disagree upon.

I think a lot of our problems stem from a basic incompatibility. There are things that I value that he simply does not get or does not understand.

I''m happy to hear that you feel like things are calmer and more peaceful when your H is not around. It must feel like you're at a happier place.

I wish I could find a way for him to move out sooner. The girls and I get along so well when he isn't around. There are still conflicts and normal kid stuff but he isn't there getting all anxious and adding to the drama. He has this nervous, anxiousness about him. Our kids don't even like it when he drives. There are times when our oldest will decline going somewhere if he is going to drive because his driving makes her nauseous.

When we went trick or treating for Halloween, he didn't go with us and it was soo much more peaceful even though we had an extra kid with us. I want that peacefulness all of the time.

I think the important thing to recognize is the triggers and take ownership of our actions and learn and grow from these experiences to better ourselves. Find forgiveness for you.

I think the biggest trigger for me is when I say something and he just sits there without responding. Or, if he does respond, his response doesn't seem to fit. I am not sure if I am explaining that quite right. I have never really been able to adequately explain it so I figured it was me nitpicking. I can tell him something super serious and it is like I just said that the sky was blue or that it is raining. I am wondering if I could describe it as him having a flat affect. That drives me insane. And the way he will twist things and do stuff and then say, "I am just doing what you told me to do." Ack! Really, there are times when it feels like any attempt at real give and take communication has been a real source of confusion. I understand why now. Now, it is just finding ways to cope and not react.

[Mutt]

From there, we went on to have 3 more kids. Having kids was a great distraction so that neither one of us really had to deal with the underlying issues.

I can relate with this vortex of confusion. When we look at triangulation, it's not necessarily interpersonal relationships, it can be work and having children as well. In this context, triangulation is because we are having difficulties with coping the primary relationship and we are reliving pressure by shifting our attention of focus elsewhere, with having kids.

I'm with you, with my last 2 kids. It was a distraction and it worked for me for the first year after having them because so much attention was addressed to them by both parents only to find the underlying issues were still there. I'm speaking from my perspective and experience, when things were getting into territory that was very difficult and I didn't know how to function, we would have another child.

Is Your Relationship Breaking Down?

Oh my goodness! This article describes very succinctly what has been happening over the years. I think I am slower than most because it took me a really long time to get to a point where I could say "Enough!". The quote from the article that is most meaningful to me is:



Basically compatible partners may demonstrate a whole lot of conflict, but they don't often become contemptuous and angry with their partners, because there are by definition few things that they will disagree upon.

I think a lot of our problems stem from a basic incompatibility. There are things that I value that he simply does not get or does not understand.

After I grieved my marriage and came to acceptance and peeled back the layers and took personality disorder out of context. I wasn't compatible with my ex wife.

I would like to play devil's advocate here. Do I have the need to be right all of the time with a partner or people in my life? If I'm dealing with my ex and I see it in everyday life, I will use work as an example - emotional immaturity.

Let's say that my ex is critisizing me with parenting on my time (she often does because I'm split black, I can't do anything right  ) and she is being emotionally immature. I know what is fact. I am split black and the good that I do isn't validated, she can't see good or the grey areas. She often dissociates (lies) because it is to change her reality to match her out of place feelings. Now before I understood the disorder, I would disagree and it would escalate and become an argument. A lot of back and forth and neither voices were heard. I wasn't proud of my behaviors as well. I was embarrassed and ashamed. It is what it is. I know better now and I don't have as many impulses.

Do I need to argue my point knowing that my ex is being emotionally immature? Dissociating? No. I know what my reality is and if she believes something different (her reality) fine. Reality is open to debate and it's not a debate that I will take up with my disordered ex.

Our kids don't even like it when he drives. There are times when our oldest will decline going somewhere if he is going to drive because his driving makes her nauseous.

I'm sorry for your kids. Does that trigger your ex that the kids won't go with him because he's making them car sick?

I want that peacefulness all of the time.

A balanced approach, as you are still in your r/s is that it is not peaceful all of the time and many members will attest to this. It's very difficult when a partner leaves someone with a personality disorder as they will aggressively and incessantly try to contact or convince you to come back. They lack a sense of self, this is an attachment disorder. The flip side is that you don't hear from them when they leave you, it's as if you don't exist fred6 and I in this thread are in that camp. It takes time to detach and to work through our feelings and grieve. I will agree that it is more peaceful and more quiet in this process. I rarely hear from my ex presently because she understands my boundaries. It took many times for myself to defend them, and she gets the picture and it's quiet for now.

I'm not sure that I can help you on this board with coping while you are the r/s. These are all lessons that I learned after separation and divorce. Perhaps lessons you can learn from the staying members?

[vortex of confusion]

I'm sorry for your kids. Does that trigger your ex that the kids won't go with him because he's making them car sick?

Not really! It is like the kids can say or do pretty much whatever they want to him. He is so unbelievably apathetic. It is weird because he will be apathetic about the things that seem important yet flip out over the stupid stuff that doesn't make much difference. It makes no sense to me.

I'm not sure that I can help you on this board with coping while you are the r/s. These are all lessons that I learned after separation and divorce. Perhaps lessons you can learn from the staying members?

I have read through the lessons on the staying board and initially started out there. Most of the advice there seems geared towards staying in a relationship for the long term. I want out. I want to find a way to detach and be done with this crap.

[Mutt]

I hear you with leaving. It doesn't make much sense because he has a distorted belief system. As much as I know I can't make sense of the logical thinking because it is illogical. It is really about understanding the behaviors and learning to depersonalize. It's not about us. It is about their core wound. Their trauma.

[vortex of confusion]

I hear you with leaving. It doesn't make much sense because he has a distorted belief system. As much as I know I can't make sense of the logical thinking because it is illogical. It is really about understanding the behaviors and learning to depersonalize. It's not about us. It is about their core wound. Their trauma.

My first gut level reaction to this was a bit sarcastic but is probably more true than I want it to be. My first thought was, ":)amn it! I wanted it to be about me. I wanted to be that important to him." Now, not only was I not important to him in good times but I wasn't important to him with that either. I just want to feel like something is about me. I am tired of it all being about him. LOL. How is that for a visceral, gut level reaction?