The mess of the ending

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I haven't seen my wife... .or glimers of her, for over seven weeks... .

Drugs may be a factor... .her boyfriend described himself as a frequent user of drugs on his dating website... .

Mutt... .I truly share the pain you went through with yours

I understand. It's difficult when the person we knew is not the same person. As you say a glimmer. One that devaluates and has vitriol - rancor.

I'm sorry you're going through this

[Mutt]

I haven't seen my wife... .or glimers of her, for over seven weeks... .

Drugs may be a factor... .her boyfriend described himself as a frequent user of drugs on his dating website... .

Mutt... .I truly share the pain you went through with yours

I understand. It's difficult when the person we knew is not the same person. As you say a glimmer. One that devaluates and has vitriol - rancor.

I'm sorry you're going through this

[whirlpoollife]

SES, you deserve better.  

My npd x2bhb went through everything , long before I caught on, as I connectied the dots. He found an appointment card in my purse for a therapist , for me.   Since that time he spread the rumors to all he can , family, strangers, neighbors, kids, their L (guardian adlium-(GAL) that I was mental.  That I am the crazy one for ending the marriage. It's the extinction burst and projection of themselves.

He pinpoints the day I though out the marriage ... .when I looked up personality disorders on the computer at home, before I knew to delete history or not to use it at all.  

For you as a parent , document what you do as a parent.  It's hard because most of what we do we just do it naturally without thinking.  So who buys the meals, serves it to kids, who makes the medical appts, who helps with homework, who is up in the night when they are sick, who does their laundry, who schedules the after school activities, who takes them there, who gets kids ready for school. Are you involved at the school.  Think of all the little details.   this will help you later .

Living with your wife now is difficult. After I filed for divorce , h lived in the house for some months after.

What you will be going through is emotionally and financially a roller coaster.   For me,  two and a half years into the divorce process, it's back to the extinction burst tactics from h. But now I am a bit stronger and knowledgable on how to handle it .  

Hang in there.

[maxen]

Death threats are... .I hate you so much I could murder you... .If I could get away with it I'd suffocate you in your sleep... .

I went to the police regarding abusive and harassing text messages... .  About her new sex life...

I have been to a domestic violence charity about her threats... .They advised try to record her saying it... .Also discussed with lawyer... .and family,  friends and colleagues... .

all that sounds good. people should know.

my w also sent emails flaunting her infidelity (knowing that i have major depression). it's just beyond words.

She hacked my phone when I was having a shower... .Change my pin every few days... .I don't leave anywhere now... .She tried to break it a few days ago... .Flash drive was in sock drawer, has my thesis on it... .She told me she found my file of lies... .Deleted it... .said she almost deleted my thesis... .

crikey, i'm glad your thesis wasn't erased!

Does she sound bad in the greater scheme of things? 

she does to me. i'm happy to hear you've taken protective steps.

There was violence in the past... .She has hit me... . 

good that the police know that. did they seem to take seriously what you were saying?

[SES]

Thanks for all your support and advice... .

Its helpful to know this is bad... .It is undoubtedly the worst seven weeks of my life... .

The texts about her sex life, and that he enjoyed having her in clothes I bought her, just left me numb, abused, hurt, empty,  cold, devastated... .

This is really hard... .All the time,it's me who is awkward, vindictive,  etc etc etc... .All her stuff

I. Never anticipated this... .

I am grateful for the support... .Lots of colleagues tell me that this is abusive... .I know it is... .If I didn't have kids I'd walk... . I have to stay to fight for right to see them... She is prepared to do anything that hurts... .There are no limits

... Anything is possible... .I feel.a shadow of my former self.  

[david]

My ex did stuff like this towards the end.

The best one was during one of my SS's (her son from her first marriage) graduation party. It was at SS's girlfriends house. Ex came separately because she was angry with me. She avoided me the entire time. When she was ready to leave and she made the rounds to say goodbye. When she came near me she picked the drunkest gut that was standing in front of me by about six feet. She grabbed him and stuck her tongue down his throat. He almost fell because he was so drunk. She quickly left after that. I was sitting on a sofa next to one of my SS's friends. He apologized for my ex's behavior. I told him that I wasn't sure why he was apologizing and that the way I looked at it my ex was the one that should apologize. About a half hour later the drunk guys boyfriend came up to him and helped get him in their car to go home. That was priceless.

[SES]

Yep, it's tough going... .End of a relationship is hard, an affair is hard... .But dealing with all her stuff is hardest... .

Any suggestions about how to play the school and our childminder?   Our childminder is frosty with me now... .I'm aware my wife has said allsorts to her... .I was so awful and cruel recently (being distant and boundaried) my wife told me she cried when she dropped the kuds at out childminder... .And told her how awful I was being. .

I saw the childminder and said that i hoped she realised there was more than one side to this... .I now wonder if I should be direct... .After all I pay this lady to look after our kids when we are at work.  Or, if I should just ignore it? Any good ideas welcome... .

2 days without her... .She went away... .Last I heard from her yesterday was a text saying she was so lucky... .She ad a flat tyre... .  I didn't respond,  and haven't heard from her since.  She is due back tonight, or tomorrow... .Tomorrow would be good for me... .

[david]

I always took the approach as what was best for our kids. If people thought I was the problem then they either figured it out by my actions or they didn't. An advantage I had was that my ex has serious anger issues and can not control them well.

The first two years after she ran away I would be out somewhere and people would approach me to say something. One example, I was food shopping when a woman walked up to me and started talking to me. She was very pleasant and it seemed like she knew me. I had no idea who she was. She quickly realized that and started to try to make me guess. I still had no idea until she started to give me some clues. It turned out it was someone that worked with my ex at the time. My ex worked in a hospital and I used to drop by to say hello or drop something off for her to eat. I used to talk to this woman when ex was not in her office. She remembered me but I didn't remember her. Anyway, she told me that I needed to stay away from my wife (we were still married at that time) and I deserved to be happy. She said that ex is a very angry and unhappy person. She went on telling me that ex would say she wanted to rip my eyes out of my head and stomp on my eyeballs. I just laughed. The woman got kind of serious and tried to help me understand how serious I should take it. I explained that we have two children together and I had no choice but to communicate with ex until they grew up. That is a single incident but I had about a dozen in those first few years. The most I ever said to anyone is that I believed ex had a mental health issue and I hoped she would find what she was looking for.

Ex left in 2007. We currently are going through court ordered co parent counseling. We only had three meetings to date. I learned through ex that I am controlling, trying to micro manage her life, an abuser. I refuse to discuss things with her about the children. I am alienating the children against her. I need to learn how to parent, blah blah blah... .The last session we had the counselor spend the majority of time talking to ex. I just sit there and listen. Ex is still very angry and I suspect always will be. The counselor said several things that went right over ex's head. I heard it loud and clear so I understand he gets ex has some kind of issue.

I am so emotionally attached it doesn't phase me anymore. The only time I fell uncomfortable is when she attempts to be nice to me. Alarms go off whenever that happens. She is the only person, when she attempts to be nice, that does that to me.

[SES]

David... .Thanks. I might let thing lie. My wife says exactly the same things... .I'm controlling,  don't do anything for the kids, micromanaging her... .I really hope that people do see through her eventually... .To me it sounds like her friends are encouraging her... .But really she only has colleagues,  who she doesn't see out of work... .One friend she sees every month or so... .and her boyfriend... Probably not much to worry about really... . 

Have you moved on... .Found love again? 

I think about how she conned the counsellor when we went for couples counselling this year... .Although our counsellor recognised there were powerful attachment issues, an intense relationship,  and was short with my wife a few times... .  Wife also got caught out a couple of times... .

Good luck with your issues... .  I have custody arrangements to face... .changes every time we discuss it... .From shared to I'll see the two days a fortnight.   

I have started to take things out of the house... .My certificates,  and passport and legal documents...    I'll take something ever day and store at work.

Will she ever regret this, or feels sad about it?  I probably know the answer... .She is disordered, and wired up differently... .  Especially in the lengthy period of dysregulation.

[livednlearned]

Does she sound bad in the greater scheme of things?  Colleagues at work think she is unravelling... .Almost paranoid at times... .

There was violence in the past... .She has hit me... .More recently said that she hopes I die of a silent asthma attack...   As a result have written a will... .Told people... . 

It sounds bad. My ex escalated like this too. So much of BPD behavior is about shame, and lashing out instead of dealing with negative feelings in appropriate ways. All of her coping mechanisms for shame - projection, paranoia, verbal abuse -- are primitive, and are designed to prevent her from feeling her own shame. She cannot fully experience the negative feelings, so she bounces them out on you. In my 10 year marriage, I never said anything about my ex's drinking until I did, and then I was split black and things escalated, similar to what you're experiencing. For people with BPD, feelings = facts. If she feels that you are having an affair, it is a fact to her. She must feel that you're the one who is mentally ill, having an affair, because it is intolerable for her to feel that. Mental illness makes no sense, but there is an order to the disorder. It's hard to see it dispassionately when you are in it, especially when the heat is turned up as high as it is now.

It sounds like you might be somewhere other than the US, so maybe it is different where you live. But toward the end of my marriage I was worried about my safety like you are. Like your lawyer, mine said it is always better to stay in the marital home, but if there is threat of violence, then to get out as soon as possible. I had a separate bank account, credit card, had researched apartments, hotels for a few nights if needed, plus moved all important documents and papers to a storage locker, and had a set of clothes, a full safety plan depending on different scenarios. I also kept a secret phone, a separate set of keys, a whole purse outside (my ex often locked me out when he was in a rage). Think your safety plan through very carefully. I also went to the school and told them that my son's home life was very turbulent, and likely there was going to be divorce. I wanted to make sure that they were gentle with him in case he started to exhibit signs of stress from the fighting. It was a really good move -- I talked to the family specialist, that was the best person to talk to. Do what you can in advance. I also bought a phone for my son and could track him if N/BPDx took him out of school, though fortunately I never needed to track him.

You might also want to let law enforcement know in advance that you are concerned about your wife and think she might be getting ready to do something. If your ex is hunting your phone, you might want to have a spare that she doesn't know about. Or a separate device for recording that you have on at all times.

Documentation is so important.

About your child minder -- I would ask your L what is best. And ask your L what to do if/when your wife threatens your life. It could be that it won't be taken seriously if it isn't documented, gender bias being what it is when it comes to female-on-male domestic violence. Did the DV charity counsel you on what to do? Because getting a restraining order (or whatever it's called where you live) might be the best way to protect yourself and the kids (from seeing something violent happen), and prevent her from living in the house while you are trying to sell it.

It is awful that your ex is dysregulating like this, and the affair and abuse sounds horrible. I am so sorry you have to endure this, SES. I know it is probably hard to see it right now, but when pwBPD are in this state, they tend to have a hard time hiding the behavior from the court system, especially if you are documenting it. She will probably try a scorched earth approach, but most BPD sufferers are very impulsive, not rational, and can't problem solve. They trigger easily and have a hard time returning to baseline. All of these things make it difficult for them in the best of times, but when a BPD sufferer is dysregulating like your wife is, she will probably have a hard time following through on many of the things she says to you, at least in terms of what she plans to do legally. Now is not a time to try and reason with her about what is best for the kids in terms of custody. You can do that with the lawyers.

For now, think about your safety and put together several plans. Matt (a long-time member here who was assaulted by his ex wife) recommends having the name of a criminal law attorney to call in case you are falsely accused of domestic violence.

You are a smart person, and understandably feeling a lot of stress, but you can put this plan together and have precautions in place. Once things get this intense, they don't tend to dial back to the good ol' days, is my experience. Better to prepare for the worst and hope for at least somewhere in the ball park of tolerable.

And read Splitting by Bill Eddy -- it's an excellent book. It will give you really good insights into how BPD and the court system mixes. If you aren't in the US, it might be a bit different, but the principles are the same.

And you have friends here. Lots of collective wisdom about this unfortunate stage of BPD relationships, and how to take care of yourself and the kids.

People here understand and genuinely care.

[SES]

Livednlearned... .Thanks, helpful and stark... .She was away for the weekend,  and came back last night... .My anxiety had gone up enormously on her return.   Back to baiting me regarding being unreasonable and not retuning her call when she had a flat tyre... .this morning baiting me about doing fun things with the kids over the weekend... .'they need normality '.   Showering with the bathroom door open.   I avoided arousing her, by being bland, and saying things like... It's tough times for all of us... .  The article Mutt shared was helpful.   I can't go down the route of making out I'm depressed, as she keeps suggesting this is a reason for me not to have the kids.

When she says she hates me so much she could murder me... .Is it fair to say she actually wants to murder me?  I had thought she was being manipulative,  wanting to cause distress... .She has a responsible job, which she is holding down... . She said she would smouther me if she could get away with it.   Then said she was just joking,  and I need a sense of humour.

This is a living hell.   Walking on eggshells... .Worried about her reaction... .  Worried about her anger... .Worried about what spiteful thing she might do next... .Worried about the kids.   

I can't believe I didn't recognise the disorder sooner... .  I think I was in some form of denial.   

[SES]

I wrote the last one whilst at home... .Things were a bit stressful this morning... .  She was angry, and baiting me, following me round our home telling me off for various this, even talking to the kids on her day to look after them... .I went to my room and closed the door... .She stood outside for fifteen minutes,  baiting, berating,  even in silence,  at one point scratching her finger nails over the panels of my door... .  Almost like a tacky horror movie.   

I went to work quickly, to get a text saying ' I miss you as a friend '... .

I know good times lie ahead... .I am grateful for the support i get here... .I cried when I got to work.

[livednlearned]

When she says she hates me so much she could murder me... .Is it fair to say she actually wants to murder me?  I had thought she was being manipulative,  wanting to cause distress... .She has a responsible job, which she is holding down... . She said she would smouther me if she could get away with it.   Then said she was just joking,  and I need a sense of humour.

My ex did this too. His favorite was "maybe you could just drive into a bridge abutment." I don't know why it was always a bridge abutment    Then he became convinced I was trying to poison him with arsenic, and projection being what it was, I thought that meant he was thinking of doing this to me.

There is no way to know what someone's snapping point is, so there is no way to answer the question about how dangerous she is. When we start wondering if our spouse is trying to kill us, I think it's the difference between scalding scorching hot and scorching hot. You're on flames either way and it's time to listen to the fire alarm and get out.

But if you want to think about it in terms of patterns, BPD is more about infidelity, false allegations of domestic violence or child molestation, "accidental" pregnancy, and for some, drug and alcohol abuse and the risk that go with that. There is a Mosaic Threat Assessment tool designed by Gavin de Becker, the author of Gift of Fear. It's a free online questionnaire that will ask questions, and then totals the questions 1 out of 10 to gauge the threat of violence. I think things like owning guns, substance abuse, prior history of abuse, being in the military, etc. all tend to push the risk higher. It's been a while since I took it, but looking back, I don't know why I needed a test to figure out whether N/BPDx was a danger to me. Deep down, I never thought he would actually do anything to me, but then he had a psychotic episode one night while he was home with my son and I felt he went into a more severe form of whatever he is -- there is a family history of bipolar so he has some more manic behaviors.

Looking at your situation from the outside in, with her threats and prior history of physical abuse, filing a restraining order seems the most logical thing to do. If anyone but our spouses did these things to us, chances are we would not hesitate to protect ourselves. But for whatever reason, we allow our intimate partners to say and do things we would never tolerate from anyone else, and then worry about upsetting them when we take care of ourselves. It gets easier to untangle the psychology of it all once you are not intimate and living together anymore, and have a good therapist. I was married 10 years, spent 2 years or so healing, and met someone "normal" and wonderful and have been with him for 2 years. It is possible to recover from these BPD relationships and find something safe and loving, as long as you are willing to do the hard work to understand what led you to be in this relationship and tolerate the abuse.

I wouldn't be too worried about the depression thing -- if that's all she's accusing you of, then rest assured. You won't have your kids taken away just because you're depressed. In fact, if you are open about feeling depressed about your marriage and say that you've been seeing a therapist so you can be a good dad to your kids, most courts see that as a positive sign. Depending on your legal strategy, you might get a custody evaluation in which both of you get a psychological evaluation. I don't know if that's a common tactic where you live, but it's fairly common in the US. Or, based on whatever recording and evidence you have, you might end up filing a domestic violence charge against her, and the courts might assign anger management classes to her. She won't go, and the courts will begin to see that she is defiant and not behaving in compliance with the court orders.

Whatever you do, be sure to take care of yourself and focus on the kids. If you put her first, your kids will suffer, which means you will suffer. And if it's any consolation, at this stage of your relationship, being split black like this, you are absolutely not capable of helping her. She has blown through all of your boundaries and to be effective, you must be someone who has excellent boundaries. She is in a free fall right now.

[ForeverDad]

The level of conflict skyrocketed when I called 911 and the police rushed over.  Neither of us were arrested.  I was asked to step away but son wouldn't go to his mother - actually shrieked and clung tighter to me - and so I believe my son saved me that day.  Apparently they didn't believe what I said.  My recorder's speaker didn't work so after I downloaded it I called, an officer came, listened to it and quickly said, file a report and we'll arrest her for Threat of DV.  Note this, the officer told me not to drop the case, that many did to their regret, if I did then it would just get worse.  I've always remembered that.

Well, she refused to take a plea deal so after a few continuances we had a short trial after all the other cases were done.  The recording was played, she admitted to making the death threats while also claiming "that's how we argue".  (Um, not me!)  Anyway the judge squeezed a round peg into a square hole by using case law to say that without a weapon in her hands then her threats were not "imminent" and therefore he found her Not Guilty.  In effect, she got a green light to make more threats, she just had to be careful not to have weapons in her hands.  I must admit though, this was our first time in court, we weren't revolving door perps, so maybe that's why he dismissed it without even wagging a finger at her and walked out.

[SES]

A dire warning... .What an ordeal... .mine has stopped death threats lucikly.

Well... .Should have remembered how dysregulated she is this morning... .She was back to saying she was sad we weren't friends... .  If only i was nice to her... .Stopped being so awful... .I was stupid for feeing able to say, I'd like it if we could be friends, but can you stop making death threats, and stop saying im too mentally unwell to have my kids... .Well she threw a freshly made mug of tea at me... .I had recorded the incident... .  I showered in cold water quickly... .  Got changed... .She barged into my room being aggressive, telling me what's what... .I decided to put some possessions in my car in preparation for leaving for the childminder... .  She locked me out of the house... .I was outside for 15 mins... .She let me in... Suggested I am trying to take our kids from her... .Followed me round whilst I got my kids ready to leave... .Then we left... .

Follows numerous texts telling me that I am abusive... .   The later texts saying she wanted to die, that she had been thinking about it for a while... .I eventually responded to ski if she was safe, that i was concerned she is suicidal... .  She responded by telling me she had instructed a lawyer... .That recording her conversations breached her human rights. (a European idea) that i should stop recording,  delete all recordings... .Stop talking to her.

Well a domestic violence charity suggested I kept them... .Plus I have evidence of an assault... .

My word... .Back in house tonight... .it is my day for the kids... .Lawyer says keep to my days else will compromise any future case... .  She has tempted kids to her room to play computer games... .

My regret... .Not being bland... .Feeling safe enough to set out a boundary... .  I was foolish... .Now she is extra problem... .

She has tidied the house... .  Sounds ok with kids... .

Hopefully she will settle down...

Given the experience of the last poster... .I don't want to report to the police... .

[SES]

I feel controlled and powerless

This is a living nightmare

[david]

Keep all recordings. I download them on a computer to have copies available.

If my ex sent me a text talking about suicide I would contact the authorities and make sure I have a police report.

The power comes from boundaries. It did for me.

[david]

Also, emotionally detaching (takes time) is a big help. It I very tough in the beginning. It does get better. I fact, after our divorce was final (4 years after she filed and delayed) things really started to improve. It is 7 years now and I can honestly say her divorcing me was the best things she could have done for me. On top of that, our two boys and I have a great relationship. It is much better than I believe  it would have been had ex and I still been together. I also have a great relationship with SS's ( her kids from her first marriage). I would never have believed any of that was possible 7 years ago.

[SES]

David,  thanks... .Your experience is helpful to me... .A reminder that things will improve... .  all the good times are far outweighed by the bad times... .I am painfully aware of the abuse, control,  power,  that she exercises every day... .I can't wait for this to end.

[SES]

I feel ashamed... . I know I shouldn't... . I am a grown man and I have cried two days in a row at work.  My colleagues are so kind... . I am using a women's domestic violence charity for support... .I just feel so ashamed, weak and sad.  

I know this will pass...  Good times are ahead.

[maxen]

I am a grown man and I have cried two days in a row at work.

SES there's no contradiction here. i wept till i howled. you've tried to be decent and you're being paid back with irrationality. who wouldn't be done over by that?

My colleagues are so kind... .

what a gift that is! your work is a safe place, it sounds like. please know how lucky you are.

I am using a women's domestic violence charity for support... .

women's or otherwise (and there aren't too many men's domestic violence charities, yet), they're taking your situation seriously. in fact, it sounds as if you're reaching out for support, which is a very healthy sign, and getting it. keep doing that and you will find your way through. i was unused to doing that sort of thing at all, i was in a genuine horror for a time, but i reached out to friends, colleagues, family, priest, therapist, psychiatrist, lawyer - and a certain internet support group! keep connected.

[ForeverDad]

She has tidied the house... .  Sounds ok with kids... .

Hopefully she will settle down...

Perhaps, though clearly only until the next time.  You may think you triggered her with a boundary and in a way you did - read up on "extinction bursts" where the new, strengthened or restated boundary gets an overreaction in an attempt to get you to retreat and go back to the old patterns.  However, boundaries are good and essential to any relationship, healthy or unhealthy.

Unless or until she makes significant demonstrable progress in therapy, the relationship won't improve or calm down, it will continue cycling with outbursts and demands.

And no, someone who will rage against others is not a good parent.  But generally courts treat parents like they have two unrelated personas, one displaying adult behaviors and another displaying parenting behaviors.  But that doesn't mean she is a good or even ok parent.  (In my case the court defaulted parenting to her but years later, look at me, I have custody.  It wasn't easy nor quick but I stuck with it and eventually the court figured it out.)

Given the experience of the last poster... .I don't want to report to the police... .

Little me?  Well, it could have gone south, but fortunately it didn't.  But my point was that unless there are some reasons otherwise, it is best to make a report.  For example, in my case I had never made a prior report.  The police were making a cold call with no knowledge about us.  So of course they gave my then-spouse information about DV resources, as she later told me.  By default women get a default preference, at least so it seems, even the law defers to women with The Violence Against Women Act of 1994.  What gets lost in the clamor and rhetoric is that the DV of women against men is not zero.

What made then difference for me was that (1) in the moment my son refused to leave me for his mother and (2) I had a recording of the incident that later confirmed my account.  Also, remember that the officer encouraged me to make a report and warned me to beware of dropping the matter since dropping a case would not be wise.  My point is that filing a police report could help you later, if only to get the first responders to look at more people as perps than just you.

I viewed my recordings - I had started about 6 months before - as 'insurance' that I wasn't the one misbehaving.  I remember asking a relative to hold on to my backups since I was afraid they might be found and destroyed.  However, I never waved around a recorder or microphone, I kept it low level and in the background, often just in my pocket.  (Today there are so many ways to record, there are even pen cams that are even functioning pens.)

Understand that a disordered person's demands are selfish demands... .abdicating, appeasing and complying won't help you.  So what to do?  Be informed of your options, have a strategy or several strategies.  No, that's not devious, that's smart, even street smart.  Be defensive yet proactive.

Very likely you cannot keep it out of the courts.  Divorce requires a court action, generally an adversarial process, and quite often in our cases the misbehaving spouses will try to make us look worse than them.  Knowing that some level of conflict, court action and even allegations are unavoidable, prepare of contingencies and handle things so you aren't the one framed and virtually defenseless against false allegations and other legal maneuvers to keep you reactive rather than proactive.

[livednlearned]

I think everyone on this board has been where you are, SES.

The thing you are most afraid of doing is the thing that will turn this around, and that is setting a boundary. Whether it's calling the police to report an assault, or calling to report that your wife has suicidal ideation. The tricky part at this point is to have a good plan in place when you set that boundary.

Being passive did not work for anyone here. Being assertive is not be aggressive, though to conflict-avoiders, it can feel that way at first. You've been beaten down by a serious mental illness, and it does not make a difference what gender you are.

What david said applies to me as well. Leaving my ex is the best thing that has ever happened to me. I read that the Chinese character for crisis has two parts: one means danger and the other means opportunity. Your crisis will become an opportunity for profoundly deep healing and what you learn will get passed to your kids. My T said I was changing my family script is she was right. It's the FOG lifting, and things are so clear.

Be kind to yourself right now.

[SES]

I need a good plan regarding setting the boundary... .And also how to cope with the fall out.

After the flurry of yesterdays events, she started messaging that she had instructed a lawyer,  and that the lawyer would be in touch with me.  At least I can leave it all to the lawyers.  I have a feeling she will still try to prevent me from having shared care of our kids.   But that will be out of my hands.  Someone previously posted that she was likely to go through courts.

[maxen]

I have a feeling she will still try to prevent me from having shared care of our kids.   But that will be out of my hands. 

no, it won't. do you have a lawyer yet?

[david]

Lawyers contact other lawyers. They don't contact the other attorneys client. It is a threat of sorts or an attempt to engage.

I learned years back that negative engagement is still engagement. The meaning of that has evolved the more I dealt with ex.

Boundaries are important. I needed to seriously think through some boundaries to make sure my boundary was best for all involved. My focus has always been our two boys.

One boundary I stuck to is email only communication. It gives me time to sort through what ex is saying and I can focus on the parts that involve the kids. The rest I ignore.

Keep documenting everything you can. One event in court is not a big deal. A history of events makes a difference.

[SES]

Maxen and David

Thanks... .Yes,,  I instructed a lawyer ages ago.  She hasn't responded to the lawyers letter to her from a few weeks ago.  Yes... .She is trying to engage me... .and continue to threaten me. Thanks for reminding me...  

It is something new every day.  She still walks round the house in pants and a vest, and showers with the bathroom door open.  It's all about her disorder.  She is unpredictable.

[ForeverDad]

I have a feeling she will still try to prevent me from having shared care of our kids.   But that will be out of my hands.

no, it won't. do you have a lawyer yet?

I agree, you are one of the two parents, so you DO have a say.  How much - both initially and then later on over time - we can't predict.  But you most definitely are NOT locked out of the process.  However, if you have a fatalistic view and sit back waiting for the court to do everything for you, you WILL be left out of the equation and become the typical alternate weekend dad expected to walk away into the background and leave his wallet behind.

[Mutt]

SES,

You have witnessed firsthand her behavior. The kids need a voice for them. They need your voice.

[SES]

Thanks... .  I needed a talking to... .I appreciate it.  It brings tears to my eyes reading my blog, and the support you have all given me. 

I went to the domestic violence charity today... .No surprises,  they advised me to avoid feeling fatalistic... .And that she won't prevent me from accessing my kids regularly... .As a women's charity that see violent men gaining regular access to their kids... .I am currently sharing care... .and even delivered one of my kids in my home.  I have an appointment with lawyer thus afternoon... .I know what she is going to say already... .  She has already told me I have a good case for shared care.  I'm fighting... .They are my kids... I have a record of two months events... .an audio recording of her assaulting me... .and her text message saying she was suicidal... . 

Thank you for the support... .I never realised how powerful an online community/forum could be. 

[livednlearned]

It's a really good idea, if not critically important, to have a therapist you can talk to.

A lot of us tend to self sabotage during these divorces because we've been avoiding conflict for so long and our thought patterns become disordered and defeatist. When you have had some time away from the constant conflict, you will begin to change and your strength will come back.

That's the good news.

The unfortunate news, and the reason why people here care so much about sharing experiences with family court, is that it is very difficult (thought not impossible) to change the court order. Beware of any document referred to as "temporary" like a temporary custody order, because they have a habit of becoming permanent. Family court is a very slow moving institution and does not pivot quickly.

A therapist, even one that does not know much about family law, can help check your thinking before you make long-lasting decisions that will have a deep impact on your and your kids for years to come.

Likewise, people here will point things out. Not just legal experiences, but the kinds of psychological changes that are around the corner for you.

It really does get better, SES.