The way of Lao-tzu

[Blimblam]

Some of the contemporary Christian stuff paralleled some of the Buddhist stuff about compassion and kindness but that felt more like rules than something to really take you to the depths of the soul in meditation.

Yep, that's the human nature showing up, the rules, a desire to control.  So Blim, what are the biggest understandings about yourself, life and the world that came out of your meditation and soul searching?

Our entire life is a prayer. Every thing is a ritual.  Everything is sacred.

All concious beings are of the same source we are litterally the same being experiencing it's self.

We are characters in someone else's dream.

[fromheeltoheal]

Our entire life is a prayer. Every thing is a ritual.  Everything is sacred.

All concious beings are of the same source we are litterally the same being experiencing it's self.

We are characters in someone else's dream.

Nice!  Your description reminds me of The Matrix.  What if this site is the red pill?

[Blimblam]

Our entire life is a prayer. Every thing is a ritual.  Everything is sacred.

All concious beings are of the same source we are litterally the same being experiencing it's self.

We are characters in someone else's dream.

Nice!  Your description reminds me of The Matrix.  What if this site is the red pill?

The matrix is a good modern allegory there is a lot of symbolism encoded in it. But like the matrix no one can be told what it is. You have to see it for yourself. 

The yin yang symbol is a cross section of the caducious symbol.

We are her.

[fromheeltoheal]

The matrix is a good modern allegory there is a lot of symbolism encoded in it. But like the matrix no one can be told what it is. You have to see it for yourself. 

I was gobbling the blue pills of denial when I was with her, until The Matrix got painful, so I swallowed the red pills of this site and BPD literature, and having seen the harsh reality for what it is, have completely lost my taste for blue pills.

[Perfidy]

Isn't it more like the Tao is the framework that existence is produced from? The most powerful message I received from reading is that subtlety is strength. Shouldn't we be looking for the subtlety in our own ways rather that the full on blunt end of BPD?

[workinprogress]

The matrix is a good modern allegory there is a lot of symbolism encoded in it. But like the matrix no one can be told what it is. You have to see it for yourself. 

I was gobbling the blue pills of denial when I was with her, until The Matrix got painful, so I swallowed the red pills of this site and BPD literature, and having seen the harsh reality for what it is, have completely lost my taste for blue pills.

Realizing that I was raised to be a mangina has been very bitter for me, also.

No more blue pills for me either, and this applies to everything.

[fromheeltoheal]

Isn't it more like the Tao is the framework that existence is produced from? The most powerful message I received from reading is that subtlety is strength. Shouldn't we be looking for the subtlety in our own ways rather that the full on blunt end of BPD?

Good point Perf, and yes, moderation, compassion, humility, spontaneity, simplicity, being instead of doing, all things to strive for, better yet, ease into, while also realizing that borderlines are part of all things and all things are one, so as we begin to see the matrix for what it is, accepting them with compassion too.  Moderation though?  Nope.  It's an all or nothing thing down that path.

[Crumbling]

I take white pills... ... ..I saw the Matrix.  I didn't get it.

But I do get your list, from.  My journey through self healing has led me to a place where all things you mention are important to me and very much a part of how I live my life.  My issue is that all this good spiritual health, and upward thinking had yet to lead to upward living, and it gets really frustrating day after day after day after day... .maybe it's because 50% of spiritual me, my BPDh, does everything contrary to what I do, like you said... .and it's like the reward gets cancelled out, or somethin.

[fromheeltoheal]

I take white pills... ... ..I saw the Matrix.  I didn't get it.

But I do get your list, from.  My journey through self healing has led me to a place where all things you mention are important to me and very much a part of how I live my life.  My issue is that all this good spiritual health, and upward thinking had yet to lead to upward living, and it gets really frustrating day after day after day after day... .maybe it's because 50% of spiritual me, my BPDh, does everything contrary to what I do, like you said... .and it's like the reward gets cancelled out, or somethin.

The movie is based on ancient concepts, packaged as science fiction/action for mass audiences.  I think it did those who saw it and weren't familiar with the concepts a favor, very thought provoking at least, and it got people thinkin'.

Anyway, a paraphrase might be we're all walking around in a trance, and if we could transcend it, meaning the trance we're in ends, we'd see things for what they really are, much bigger than we thought they were.  Of course most folks buy into the trance, it's comfortable and familiar, but some, usually motivated by pain, want to either dig deeper or climb higher, or both, to an entirely different reality, maybe the real one.  Heavy?  You bet.

Mutt started this thread as he's searching eastern philosophies to help his spiritual growth, as we all heal from these relationships, and that's really an upside, a spiritual quest we didn't necessarily want or plan, but ended up on, and we may be very surprised at the benefits we didn't know were there.  Seems like you're on a similar path.  Unlike the movie it's not as simple as taking a pill, yet anyway, but nothing worth it is.  Take care of you!

[Blimblam]

I take white pills... ... ..I saw the Matrix.  I didn't get it.

But I do get your list, from.  My journey through self healing has led me to a place where all things you mention are important to me and very much a part of how I live my life.  My issue is that all this good spiritual health, and upward thinking had yet to lead to upward living, and it gets really frustrating day after day after day after day... .maybe it's because 50% of spiritual me, my BPDh, does everything contrary to what I do, like you said... .and it's like the reward gets cancelled out, or somethin.

Read the nag Hamadi library.

The matrix is early esoteric Christianity in scifi form.

[myself]

The I Ching represents: Life is change and balance is best.

[eyvindr]

In Shambhala, we talk about the cocoon.

It's that place we've built for ourselves, where we surround ourselves with things, people and feelings that we're familiar with, woven together with our defenses. It's a comfort zone, where we can exist without being challenged. Maybe that trance that Crumbling refers to.

Practicing mindfulness helps us to recognize the cocoon for what it is -- something that interferes with our ability to directly experience the world, life and existence. And, as such, it prevents, or at least inhibits and slows down our growth as fully actualized individuals who are actively participating in this life, as opposed to going through the motions.

What is your cocoon?

[Perfidy]

I practice mindfulness on a course level. If I'm not mindful of how I drive my car I might hurt myself or someone else. So I train my mind to do what is in front of me without having to actually do it. I can trust myself. This course level of mindfulness enters me as abandon. It begins as such and spreads to all of my actions. It's like a freeing experience that began with reality of simply breathing. It really is the little things. Air is at the top of my gratitude list. Without the wind that moves in and out of me nothing else would be possible, and the subtler or finer awareness is change. Our lives are each held in the arms of impermanence. That is our nature. To be attached to anything in this lifetime is to suffer. Would this knowledge explain why I was so attached to one of the most wretched human beings I have thus far encountered? Tao returns to nothing.

[Perfidy]

Just reading Tao te Ching empowered me so much that I'm finding my self in a position of calmness. Nothing really matters. Especially nothing.

[fromheeltoheal]

Just reading Tao te Ching empowered me so much that I'm finding my self in a position of calmness. Nothing really matters. Especially nothing.

Now there's a glowing recommendation, thanks Perf!

[eyvindr]

Nothing really matters. Especially nothing.

[aubin]

It's interesting to see a thread here on Taoism. I first starting reading Lao Tzu in my teens (over 20 years ago) and, like someone else noted, I find new ways of understanding him with each reading. Though I don't interpret the Tao as meaning 'do nothing.' Rather, Lao Tzu warns against striving because it redirects us from the real goal without us realizing it. It's kinda like a star at night. If you look directly at the star, it disappears. But if you look elsewhere, you can see the star in your peripheral vision. Striving is like looking directly at the star; the goal disappears and then we are lost. No matter how hard we try to focus on the star, we simply cannot see it unless and until we look away. So the idea is not to not strive but to be aware that non-striving is necessary in order to achieve goals, just like we must look away from the star in order to see the star. So we strive best by not striving.

[Perfidy]

Exploring different translations of Tao te Ching gives different insights and each one of them are helpful although not in conformity. Stephan Mitchell is popular. His interpretation leads me to think he's gay, which is fine with my, however, I'm not gay. Fortunately there are around 1400 translations.

[eyvindr]

I practice mindfulness on a course level. If I'm not mindful of how I drive my car I might hurt myself or someone else. So I train my mind to do what is in front of me without having to actually do it.

The dancer becomes the dance. The driver becomes the drive. 

[Perfidy]

It's clear. Tao is everywhere.

The True Peace

The first peace, which is the most important, is that which comes within the souls of people when they realize their relationship, their oneness, with the universe and all its powers, and when they realize that at the center of the universe dwells Wakan-Taka (the Great Spirit), and that this center is really everywhere, it is within each of us.

This is the real peace, and the others are but reflections of this. The second peace is that which is made between two individuals, and the third is that which is made between two nations. But above all you should understand that there can never be peace between nations until there is known that true peace, which, as I have often said, is within the souls of men.

Black Elk - Oglala Sioux

[Mutt]

I have given much thought on spiritually in this journey of self awareness and knowledge. I keep getting drawn to Lao Tzu and Taoism. I'm at a loss of where to start with Taoism. Do members have experience with Taoism? Thanks.

I read Lao Tzu quotes too, along with Buddha and Rumi.  Their quotes keep me balanced when things are out of whack.

"You were born with wings, why crawl through life?" is a Rumi quote.

Thanks everyone for sharing in the thread thus far. I appreciate the links, book suggestions, shambhala center, it helps. I ask because when I go to the bookstore the other religions section is small. Where do you start?

I think it's what I find I'm drawn to, is I find it keeps me balanced and centered with simple, eloquent, wisdom. It helps with re-focusing on what matters in life which is life itself and not the distractions in life and drama I face with my ex. A quote from Lao-Tzu, Buhhda, Ghandi, Rumi and many others helps me get through difficult days. It's not what I was exposed to before bpdfamily.

[Perfidy]

Mutt, we aren't drawn to it, we are it. The center is our nature. When we deny our nature we suffer. We have no beginning or end. Why should we start? Everything is always in balance. It is no other way, it can't be, it's simply not like that. When we live through our senses it blinds us to our consciousness.

[Circle]

This is a one sentence summary of existentialism, from Wikipedia;

"In existentialism, the individual's starting point is characterised by what has been called "the existential attitude", or a sense of disorientation and confusion in the face of an apparently meaningless or absurd world."

I was just thinking how the Horror genre: movies, books, etc., at it's best is often existential. A person stuck in an absurd world. It's just made more obvious by the extremes. Like a good Stephen King story, such as 'The Mist', or 'The Walking Dead'.

[Circle]

  Or, the existential confusion of being lost in a BPD relationship.

[Mutt]

Or, the existential confusion of being lost in a BPD relationship.

I can relate with the confusion and losing ones emotional identity not knowing where one person ends and the other begins. Do you mean enmeshment?

[Circle]

I can relate with the confusion and losing ones emotional identity not knowing where one person ends and the other begins. Do you mean enmeshment?

Enmeshment definitely. That is the start of the horror story. Later, with distance, it feels less intense perhaps? Still am learning the later part. I wanted to share my thought about existentialism and horror. And, this seemed like the thread to do it on.