Separating the person from the disorder

[flowerpath]

I just read this: "When we choose to see the disease instead of the person, Alzheimer’s has won."

Then I thought about BPD and put it in that sentence:  "When we choose to see the disorder instead of the person, BPD has won." 

I totally understand how there is a limit to how much a person can take, so I'm not too sure either sentence is entirely true.

I’ve read that we need to separate the person from the disorder, and one thing I want to do is separate the person, my uBPDh, from the disorder.   In doing a search for the topic, most of the comments I found are on the Undecided and Leaving boards.  It seems like it's the next step after radical acceptance, shedding resentment, being forgiving, etc., but I just don’t know exactly how to separate the person from the disorder.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[MissyM]

I think this basic theory is what is talked about a lot in Alanon.  A person has a disorder but that doesn't mean that they are the disorder (would be same as addiction).  It is hard when my dBPDh is dysregulating to separate him from his disorder but I am getting better at it. When I tend to mess up is when things are going along really well and then there is a BPD behavior out of the blue. 

[pallavirajsinghani]

And yet:

How can we know the dancer from the dance?

... .WB Yeats,  "Among Schoolchildren"

[maxsterling]

Well, we talk about this in alanon, but the "disorder" they are talking about it "addiction".   That seems to assume that a person minus the disease of "addiction" is someone we can love and accept.  It's a good construct, but in the case of BPD -  grrr - the reality is that BPD is part of the person - kinda hard to separate the person from the disorder.  Everything she does is through the filter of BPD.  For me, I think I need to accept the BPD as part of who she is, and to not separate that.  Accept her personality for what it is - mostly raw human emotions that I can understand on some level, and look for the good in that. 

It's tough.  But if I mentally try to separate her from the BPD, I feel like I am wishing her to be something she is not, wishing for something impossible.  After all, this is a personality disorder, and our personality is who we are.

[MissyM]

Well, we talk about this in alanon, but the "disorder" they are talking about it "addiction".

We talk a lot about the behaviors associated with addiction and how dry addicts also behave.  I tend to see BPD like a dry addict, there are still a lot of "isms".  How I react to that behavior is on me.  The detachment and depersonalization are the same (which to me is separating the disorder from the person).  A lot of people in my group have active addicts as family members, the way they describe dealing with it is very similar to what I deal with even though my dBPDh is currently sober.

But if I mentally try to separate her from the BPD, I feel like I am wishing her to be something she is not, wishing for something impossible.  After all, this is a personality disorder, and our personality is who we are.

Really, that seems kind of sad to me.  If I felt that the worst traits my dBPDh has displayed were him and not his maladaptive traits, I don't think I would be able to like him very much.

[flowerpath]

Then this is why it has been so hard to wrap my brain around it. 

[icom]

An individual's identity is a function of their primary socialization, and BPD is experientially derived.  

Until the afflicted individual undergoes an extensive period of therapy and resocialization, the person is the disorder.  

You cannot, as yet, separate the two.

It should be immediately apparent that individuals constrained by the ravages of BPD share very few social/relational points of reference with their contemporaries.  The personality is a pastiche of elements acquired over time, but all of these elements are transitory, as they are press-ganged into service as the needs demand.

 I remember when my girlfriend opened her Facebook account.  It was several years before she submitted a profile picture, and during those years there was only an empty silhouette there in its place.  That is a perfect description of her personae: it is a vacant mask.  

[enlighten me]

I agree with max and icom. The disorder is part of them and cannot be seperated. All you can do is seperate the behaviours you like from those you dont. Even what seems like good is such as idolisation is part of the disorder.

[Mie]

If BPD is a 'personality disorder' I find it very difficult to separate that from the person. I have scoliosis, and it's very difficult to separate from my body  , it's never going to be perfect, but after some corrective operations I have been able to live normal life.

My SO said yesterday something interesting: 'It's not easy to be with me. I have problems myself. It's like there's another animal in me I'm constantly trying to tame'. So they struggle with the same question... .

[AnnaK]

I don't know, I somehow manage to see the person "behind" the disorder.

It's like taking away the masks one by one - the "nice guy", the "angry monster", the "rational man" (occasionally "religious fanatic", "bad boy", "stubborn child", "loving uncle" and on and on it goes )... .and after all the masks are taken away - what is left is just a scared, ashamed, lonely, unhappy child kinda looking up at me - "so here is me... .so what now?"

[waverider]

The biggest issue with dealing with a pwBPD is their defensiveness as they assume you are going to blame/criticise them for everything that goes wrong. They believe someone has to be blamed. Either you or them.

If you bring in the concept of the disorder being akin to third party in the relationship it becomes easier to get on the same team and blame/deal with the disorder. They are less threatened if you can obviously blame the disorder rather than them. You can paint the disorder black together. You are always going to struggle to make headway if you are playing ping pong with the blame game. It has to rest somewhere

The disorder is a common problem you both have to deal with.

Of course you have to be careful of not allowing them to use it as an excuse to absolve them from all responsibilty for their actions.

[icom]

I don't know, I somehow manage to see the person "behind" the disorder.

It's like taking away the masks one by one - the "nice guy", the "angry monster", the "rational man" (occasionally "religious fanatic", "bad boy", "stubborn child", "loving uncle" and on and on it goes )... .and after all the masks are taken away - what is left is just a scared, ashamed, lonely, unhappy child kinda looking up at me - "so here is me... .so what now?"

  As you so correctly point out, they consist almost entirely of pathological ego defences to protect a completely underdeveloped personality, and they are the marionette to these defences. 

  Knapp's Relational Model states that relationships are maximized once they pass through an orientation, exploratory, and affective stages leading to an optimal level of stability on the final stage of bonding.

  BPD gets hung-up at the Integration and Bonding stages of relational escalation for good reason: there is no personality there with which to fuse; the personality has yet to be forged.

  How would I describe a BPD relationship?  Incomplete, like listening to a piece of music that ends on a dominant 7th chord instead of the tonic; it always leaves you hanging, and anticipating a resolution that is probably never going to materialize.   

[ColdEthyl]

If BPD is a 'personality disorder' I find it very difficult to separate that from the person. I have scoliosis, and it's very difficult to separate from my body  , it's never going to be perfect, but after some corrective operations I have been able to live normal life.

My SO said yesterday something interesting: 'It's not easy to be with me. I have problems myself. It's like there's another animal in me I'm constantly trying to tame'. So they struggle with the same question... .

They do. Some can admit it, some can't. And yet there are still pwBPD who cannot/refuse to see it at all.

There's a line in a song that my husband and I love that when we first heard it, he said it explained exactly how he felt sometimes.

"I got shadows in hiding, way down inside me, sometimes they work to the surface. In just the right lighting, you can see them beside me. I swear, I don't let them out on purpose."

I think of this when he's in dysregulation. It helps me to retain my own composure.

[123Phoebe]

I don't know, I somehow manage to see the person "behind" the disorder.

It's like taking away the masks one by one - the "nice guy", the "angry monster", the "rational man" (occasionally "religious fanatic", "bad boy", "stubborn child", "loving uncle" and on and on it goes )... .

I'm either not sure I understand what you mean exactly, or am pretty positive that I disagree.

This all sounds rather normal actually, well, maybe other than the "angry monster" persona.  Is a true religious fanatic only occasionally fanatical about their beliefs?  Does it make their personality more whole by being fanatical always?  Or would some other PD be at play there?  Would another religious fanatic disagree?  Loving uncle?  I'm a loving aunt; is it a mask I'm wearing?

and after all the masks are taken away - what is left is just a scared, ashamed, lonely, unhappy child kinda looking up at me - "so here is me... .so what now?"

Yes, so what now?  How does "knowing" this about him pertain to you and the relationship or help either one?

As you so correctly point out, they consist almost entirely of pathological ego defences to protect a completely underdeveloped personality, and they are the marionette to these defences. 

Knapp's Relational Model states that relationships are maximized once they pass through an orientation, exploratory, and affective stages leading to an optimal level of stability on the final stage of bonding.

BPD gets hung-up at the Integration and Bonding stages of relational escalation for good reason: there is no personality there with which to fuse; the personality has yet to be forged.

How would I describe a BPD relationship?  Incomplete, like listening to a piece of music that ends on a dominant 7th chord instead of the tonic; it always leaves you hanging, and anticipating a resolution that is probably never going to materialize.   

Materialize into what?  A satisfying relationship, or?  I guess if your expectations are such that you're set on a final destination... What that destination is would depend on personal preferences of both parties, I'm pretty sure, while enjoying the trip there, wherever "there" is.

[waverider]

I think what phoebe is saying is there is not a normal person there who has periodic BPD episodes,. It is there all the time and effects them at a personal level, but we only see it when it comes to the surface, hence personality disorder.

This is a valid point and must be borne in mind. Separating it out is only a coping visualization measure to help remove some of the blame game conflict so you can reach a level of cooperation in tackling the traits.

One of the things that I have experienced after sometime working together to deal with this disorder is that most of the hostile defense mechanisms has been stripped away, but this leaves behind someone who is incomplete, raw, vulnerable and with few coping mechanism. There is no "normal" person lurking underneath. It is quite obvious that what is happening is you are slicing off huge corrupted portions of who they are. These will need to be replaced by healthier replacements. Unfortunately cultivating new is a lot slower and harder than cutting off the old, and that wasn't easy.

[flowerpath]

Separating it out is only a coping visualization measure to help remove some of the blame game conflict so you can reach a level of cooperation in tackling the traits.

Got it.  That makes sense to me.

One of the things that I have experienced after sometime working together to deal with this disorder is that most of the hostile defense mechanisms has been stripped away, but this leaves behind someone who is incomplete, raw, vulnerable and with few coping mechanism. There is no "normal" person lurking underneath. It is quite obvious that what is happening is you are slicing off huge corrupted portions of who they are. These will need to be replaced by healthier replacements. Unfortunately cultivating new is a lot slower and harder than cutting off the old, and that wasn't easy.

How do you do go about deciding which trait or which defense mechanism to work on first?  Would it make sense to work toward replacing that with a healthier response first before working on another type of defense mechanism? 

[waverider]

How do you do go about deciding which trait or which defense mechanism to work on first?  Would it make sense to work toward replacing that with a healthier response first before working on another type of defense mechanism? 

Getting rid of conflict and projection of their issues is basically where we are at. This way we are both on the same side now, she doesn't dump on me or the kids and would be horrified with herself if she did. She can see this and own it. It does leave her with a whole pile of yuk and she is weak and dysfunctional. however given the conflict is gone, it is easier to give effective support and easier for her to accept. They feel less isolated and you fell less victimized.

This needs to be gone before you can work on anything, as it comes down to being able to accept ownership of the disorder as a whole, otherwise dram just shifts sideways onto another aspect.

Think of it as rather than trying to work out which hole to plug in the dam, reduce the water level and pressure on the other side. Then start repairing the holes.

Getting rid of conflict and hostility is no 1 coping aim

[maxsterling]

This is a good discussion.  I agree with those who say that once you take away the BPD, there is nothing left.  That's the way I see it when I look at my wife's life.  Just about everything she has done over the past two decades can be linked to a BPD behavior.  The global travelling?  BPD.  The relationships she was in?  BPD.  Her college degree?  BPD.  All of it was a means of searching for her identity or filling a hole. That's not to say all of it was bad, or even most of it was bad.  It's neither bad or good, it is what it is.  If I look at my wife, BPD is her personality.  

In two years with her, I can't think of a single thing she has done that wasn't motivated by core BPD traits of filling voids, searching for herself, or avoiding abandonment.  Even her relationship with me is an example.  I can easily see where my love and desire to be with her works completely different from her love and desire to be with me.  I know who I am and what makes me happy.  To her, I am what defines who she is and what makes her happy.  That's not to say she doesn't love me, but love definitely works in different ways for her.  And she admits to this.  Just last night she asked me if I thought she was too dependent on me.  Then she asked if I felt relationships were in part based in dependence.  I don't need her to feel valid as a person.  Yet she needs me to feel valid as a person.  As she has stated - I am her reason for living.  

[waverider]

 Then she asked if I felt relationships were in part based in dependence.  I don't need her to feel valid as a person.  Yet she needs me to feel valid as a person.  As she has stated - I am her reason for living.  

My partner often states that she feels we are bonded at the hip. I used to think that endearing, but now I know that is codependant. I am not grafted to her, I am a strong individual who may be intertwined, but I am not bonded and dont need her for survival.

She needs me to help her define who she is. She has internal structure to hang her life on.

[123Phoebe]

One of the things that I have experienced after sometime working together to deal with this disorder is that most of the hostile defense mechanisms has been stripped away, but this leaves behind someone who is incomplete, raw, vulnerable and with few coping mechanism. There is no "normal" person lurking underneath. It is quite obvious that what is happening is you are slicing off huge corrupted portions of who they are. These will need to be replaced by healthier replacements. Unfortunately cultivating new is a lot slower and harder than cutting off the old, and that wasn't easy.

How do you do go about deciding which trait or which defense mechanism to work on first?  Would it make sense to work toward replacing that with a healthier response first before working on another type of defense mechanism?  

Know thyself.  Get in touch with your own values and what boundaries are needed to protect them.  In my relationship, the healthier responses needed to come from me first.  I could tell him I didn't like something all day long, but until I acted on it, he would see a running mouth (that could be tuned out), while the body was still there; trying to get him to change so I wouldn't have to = trying to control him.  He was doing the same thing to me!  Only he didn't use as many words, his moods did the talking and I had a hard time tuning those babies out, with no idea how to approach them respectfully.

My guy responds well to my emotions, even what I sometimes feel are over-the-top emotions.  As long as they're not directed at him and align truthfully with how I'm feeling, he gets it, or at least opens up a new pathway toward understanding where I'm at, offering him the opportunity to meet me somewhere in the middle.  The middle ground is where we can begin walking together.  I have to be open it to it also, it can't all be about what I want, when I want; we're in this relationship together.

[AnnaK]

I don't know, I somehow manage to see the person "behind" the disorder.

It's like taking away the masks one by one - the "nice guy", the "angry monster", the "rational man" (occasionally "religious fanatic", "bad boy", "stubborn child", "loving uncle" and on and on it goes )... .and after all the masks are taken away - what is left is just a scared, ashamed, lonely, unhappy child kinda looking up at me - "so here is me... .so what now?"

 As you so correctly point out, they consist almost entirely of pathological ego defences to protect a completely underdeveloped personality, and they are the marionette to these defences.  

 Knapp's Relational Model states that relationships are maximized once they pass through an orientation, exploratory, and affective stages leading to an optimal level of stability on the final stage of bonding.

 BPD gets hung-up at the Integration and Bonding stages of relational escalation for good reason: there is no personality there with which to fuse; the personality has yet to be forged.

 How would I describe a BPD relationship?  Incomplete, like listening to a piece of music that ends on a dominant 7th chord instead of the tonic; it always leaves you hanging, and anticipating a resolution that is probably never going to materialize.  

Actually, BPD does have an ego, although under-developed. It is fractured, contains a lot of defences, it has problems with being self-aware etc. etc. - but it does exist, which makes bonding possible.

This is why BPD is relatively curable, or at least remission is possible. The goal is to strengthen the "observer" part of the ego, to make the person more aware of his own behaviours.

I deal with weird stuff by finding and pointing out the patterns, returning the projections and validating.

- Can you stop bothering me, I hate you!

- That's fine, you always hate me after I take the plane home. It usually passes in some weeks. I believe you hate me for leaving.

- After this thing you said, I am leaving forever!

- That's fine, the last three times you left forever, you came back in 3 days. So don't forget your keys.

- After what I've seen I don't want you near me! (projection after some "epic fail"

- That's fine. But after what I've seen, I still want you near me.

- I can't live with you!

- It seems to me, that you are afraid to go to your home city.

This actually gradually increases self-awareness, and as we get a working communication line through validation and recognising projections, it advances into "exploratory" stage... .and recognising patterns gives a reasonable level of stability to both sides.

---

PS: as we have reached the "exploratory" stage through a lot of validation and returning projections, a big deal of shame has surfaced. I am still not sure how to deal with core shame, but I softened my approach and I will concentrate on pointing out positives (trying to make him cut down on drinking, I was very critical lately)

[waverider]

Being consistent and not dragged into their world of absolutes.

[Crumbling]

Great topic!  Love the observations I've read thus far. 

When I look at it from the pwBPD's point of view, I can see where it would almost be necessary to separate the person from the disorder, in order to help them overcome the symptoms. 

About a month ago I had a big emotional explosion that was difficult to control for over 24hrs.  What helped me get through it and eventually over come that horrible state was telling myself over and over that it was okay, that I reacted the way I did because I have PTSD, and it was my disorder that flared up, and that it's not my fault. 

It helped to alleviate the guilt and shame of being so emotionally out of control, and allowed me to forgive myself and go easier on myself than before I was given the diagnosis.  Before, the issue would have been compounded with the added emotions of guilt, shame and self-hate.  Is that not separating disorder from person?  Would it not be the same for pwBPD? 

Some medical professionals are working at changing the name of BPD to Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. I always thought that would make it easier to comprehend what is happening inside, than Borderline Personality Disorder.  But after reading these posts, I wonder if the present name isn't more suited than I first thought. 

PwBPD could be seen as having underdeveloped personalities, hence the childlike behaviours.  But also, there does seem to be a constant border, or a disconnect, between my BPDh's emotions and what is actually happening in the moment.  He can only react to the emotions going on inside, and cannot fully appreciate the present.  Like there's a border built all around him and he cannot connect with anything outside of those defined limits.

... .so, yeah, I do think of his person as being separate from the disorder.  The filter he lives his life through is BPD, the person he is, is what's behind the filter.  I have to believe that, or else I would really really hate him for all of his hurtful behaviours towards me.  If I believed that these actions are from the core of who he is, than I would have to leave, or accept myself as being a sucker for punishment, as we used to say. 

, c.

[waverider]

Great topic!  Love the observations I've read thus far. 

When I look at it from the pwBPD's point of view, I can see where it would almost be necessary to separate the person from the disorder, in order to help them overcome the symptoms. 

About a month ago I had a big emotional explosion that was difficult to control for over 24hrs.  What helped me get through it and eventually over come that horrible state was telling myself over and over that it was okay, that I reacted the way I did because I have PTSD, and it was my disorder that flared up, and that it's not my fault. 

It helped to alleviate the guilt and shame of being so emotionally out of control, and allowed me to forgive myself and go easier on myself than before I was given the diagnosis.  Before, the issue would have been compounded with the added emotions of guilt, shame and self-hate.  Is that not separating disorder from person?  Would it not be the same for pwBPD? 

This must help with your empathy and insight

Some medical professionals are working at changing the name of BPD to Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder.

Shocking name, that would be shortened to saying someone is officially labeled as "Unstable" and hence you can't trust anything they say or do.

[guy4caligirl]

I am thankful for you guys posting this topic  I have a question

When separating the disorder from the person I am having a hard time discussing this with my ex for five years ,5 months now after the B/U constant , LC , but we are communicating , I love to have another chance with her ...

My question is I have multiple reasons that she misses  me , but she is not letting her ego down  ,she has no boyfriend she's in another state ,

How can I go through the question that it could be her issues (disorder is getting in the way ?

I know how difficult it is for her to discuss that how can I brake it gently >

I wish to get waverider's response as  I know you all can help me .

[waverider]

I am thankful for you guys posting this topic  I have a question

When separating the disorder from the person I am having a hard time discussing this with my ex for five years ,5 months now after the B/U constant , LC , but we are communicating , I love to have another chance with her ...

My question is I have multiple reasons that she misses  me , but she is not letting her ego down  ,she has no boyfriend she's in another state ,

How can I go through the question that it could be her issues (disorder is getting in the way ?

I know how difficult it is for her to discuss that how can I brake it gently >

I wish to get waverider's response as  I know you all can help me .

Difficulty you have is that you are not together. She has that seperation as a safety barrier to be able to avoid the hard issues. pwBPD will rarely confront self critical issues if they can avoid them. It is only when they have run out of easier options.

You introducing it gives her a choice, entertain it or avoid it. It is easier to avoid and continue the delusion.

It is unlikely you can just come out with it, you can only really start treating her that way yourself. How she interprets that and allows the concept to develop depends on whether she is accepting of having BPD (even if not by that name) or not.

If you start acting like its not her causing problems (because you believe it) but something beyond her control, then she MAY feel safe enough to reveal more about her thoughts without fear of being seen as weak. But no guarantees, as she always has the easier option of continuing denial and avoidance.

Being openly seen as weak, even if they feel it, is a huge fear of many pwBPD

[guy4caligirl]

Thank you waive rider , I think she still loves me and care very much about me if not I do not think , I will ever get a response from her , she always say thank god for you , wish you the best and so , I want to brake that fear of opening up and breaking that barrier , I have been using the validation techniques and assure her that I am , very understanding of her boundaries , and even told her I know I did crash her boundaries and I thanked her for still taking the time to respond to me , and she always does even it takes a lot of time to reply ,but she does reply , she asked me today and said why are why are you mad at me and also said I spent an hour talking to you on new year's eve , I replied I am not upset or mad at you , she responded I don't like it when you are mad at me .

It looks to me that she just need a small tip of the balance to open up I know that from what I feel talking to her , she might be regretting but don't want to admit the failure of her leaving , if she comes back ,she has everything to look forward for  ,a job she loves running and buying for my business surf fashion and hers too . and I know she is struggling to make ends meet , I still help her with few dollars but she refuses the big dollars when back  and security .

your take please ?

[waverider]

Thank you waive rider , I think she still loves me and care very much about me if not I do not think , I will ever get a response from her , she always say thank god for you , wish you the best and so , I want to brake that fear of opening up and breaking that barrier , I have been using the validation techniques and assure her that I am , very understanding of her boundaries , and even told her I know I did crash her boundaries and I thanked her for still taking the time to respond to me , and she always does even it takes a lot of time to reply ,but she does reply , she asked me today and said why are why are you mad at me and also said I spent an hour talking to you on new year's eve , I replied I am not upset or mad at you , she responded I don't like it when you are mad at me .

It looks to me that she just need a small tip of the balance to open up I know that from what I feel talking to her , she might be regretting but don't want to admit the failure of her leaving , if she comes back ,she has everything to look forward for  ,a job she loves running and buying for my business surf fashion and hers too . and I know she is struggling to make ends meet , I still help her with few dollars but she refuses the big dollars when back  and security .

your take please ?

Are you sure she has boundaries as such? Boundaries are pretty fixed considered values with consistent enforcement, not shifting wants and limitations/abilities. pwBPD generally lack their own values and boundaries which is one reason they struggle to accept ours.

All you can do is keep the pressure off, and hence remove her perception that you may be critical, then it is up to her to realize her options. It may take the alternatives to appear to hard and scary for her to redirect towards you as the "comfortable" option.

Dont go into JADE trying to sell her your understanding/willingness to comply with her "boundaries" as you think they may be. Your actions need to be set by your values and boundaries, not reactive to someone elses needs. Otherwise you may end up enabling neediness, which can become instiable.

[Crumbling]

Shocking name, that would be shortened to saying someone is officially labeled as "Unstable" and hence you can't trust anything they say or do.

Can you?  Do you trust your pwBPD?  It's been a year since mine started T and I still don't trust him.  Every time there is evidence that he is being honest, I relax a little more, but I cannot say that I trust him, even now.

What I don't like about the name is that it makes it sound too common.  We all get emotionally unstable at times, and so I think it would perhaps make otherwise 'normal' people think that they have this, when in fact there's a lot more to BPD than not being stable.

Guy, I heard you say that 'you broke her boundary'... .could this be the starting point for bring up the subject?  Have you ever heard the saying "if nothing changes, nothing changes?"  Something needs to have changed between then and now if the second attempt at the relationship is going to have any chance at success.  BOTH of you need to be willing to make those changes.  If you have already made them, then that's where I would start the conversation.  I wouldn't have it talk until you have made that step.

This gives you the power to set your own boundary and say, look, if we try again, I need proof that you are making the changes you need to make, just like I have.  This shows her that you dont see her as a villian, and that you are willing to do what needs to be done to have a new life with her. 

I don't know, I haven't even read your profile, but all I know is that your best approach is to let her make her own choices, but lead by example.  If you do what is needed, there's a much greater chance that she will do what is needed.

good intentions comin your way!

c.

[guy4caligirl]

Crumbling  , thank you for the kind words

5 years RS 5 months LC , I really took a look at myself and realized what I have done she knows that I regret but can't change the past but  I am able to change the future , I feel within me that she still loves me and care about me she had mentioned it a lot lately like you're a good person she said  .

But I also feel that if I say give us a chance as I did in the past few months she won't yet , I am doing whatever I can to validate her feelings and be supportive to her while she is in another state with family .

When I stop texting and say , I am going to leave you alone , she always responds the quickest she can to say something to prevent me from not contacting her , I can name a few reasons why EX keeping me on the back burner and so on , well I am satisfied been on the back burner because I love her and I know I can help her by changing myself first witch I am working on it daily hoping she would see the change in me and I know she does .

Now the question is I lack patience and I don't know how to break the going back together , I know the result but I know as well the hesitation on her part I have not felt it till this holidays 5 months have been gone never gave up on her but lately I feel her taking baby steps to reconcile , let's text in bursts she said .