Adultery is a choice

[going places]

Affair; when a man/woman shows an emotional/physical interest in a man/woman that is not your husband/wife.

If the marriage is hopeless... .

If H/W (H/W husband / wife) have sought counseling, therapy, retreats, exorcism, etc; and both parties main goal is to not only save, but to resurrect and build a strong marriage; both parties giving 100% to the marriage; AND IT'S STILL NOT improving?

Separate, file, and divorce.

It is not the husband's "fault" if his wife chooses to have an affair.

SHE IS MAKING A CHOICE.

No one... .no one can 'make you' make bad choices.

It is not the wife's "fault" if the husband chooses to have an affair.

HE IS MAKING A CHOICE.

My ex mentally and emotionally tortured me. Told me his affair was my fault; if I had only done, this or that, then he would have never had the affair.

HE had the "pastor/counselor" CONVINCED that it was MY FAULT HE CHOSE to have an affair.

And after 6 months of him and the counselor, convincing me not only was it my fault BUT if I would just be a 'better wife' it would never happen again.

I not only met, but exceeded in the 'better wife' department.

And 6 months later I discovered things more horrifying, more devestating than the affair... .

It broke me.

No.

Affairs don't just "happen".

Like a camp fire, they are carefully constructed. Effort must be put forth, on both parties.

I don't care HOW bad the situation is; an affair, is a choice.

Own it.

Don't blame it on the other, not even in part. The person having an affair is 100% responsible for his/her actions. Period.

There is no justification for adultery. None.

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[enlighten me]

Totally agree.

No matter how bad things got I would never seriously consider cheating. Its my number one value that i hold above all others in a relationship. If you want to play the field then you shouldnt be in a relationship. Its a cowardly act and selfish. I say cowardly because rather than work out the problems or leave the relationship they keep thre safety of the relationship and sneak around and do what they want.

[going places]

Totally agree!

[hope2727]

Affair; when a man/woman shows an emotional/physical interest in a man/woman that is not your husband/wife.

If the marriage is hopeless... .

If H/W (H/W husband / wife) have sought counseling, therapy, retreats, exorcism, etc; and both parties main goal is to not only save, but to resurrect and build a strong marriage; both parties giving 100% to the marriage; AND IT'S STILL NOT improving?

Separate, file, and divorce.

It is not the husband's "fault" if his wife chooses to have an affair.

SHE IS MAKING A CHOICE.

No one... .no one can 'make you' make bad choices.

It is not the wife's "fault" if the husband chooses to have an affair.

HE IS MAKING A CHOICE.

My ex mentally and emotionally tortured me. Told me his affair was my fault; if I had only done, this or that, then he would have never had the affair.

HE had the "pastor/counselor" CONVINCED that it was MY FAULT HE CHOSE to have an affair.

And after 6 months of him and the counselor, convincing me not only was it my fault BUT if I would just be a 'better wife' it would never happen again.

I not only met, but exceeded in the 'better wife' department.

And 6 months later I discovered things more horrifying, more devestating than the affair... .

It broke me.

No.

Affairs don't just "happen".

Like a camp fire, they are carefully constructed. Effort must be put forth, on both parties.

I don't care HOW bad the situation is; an affair, is a choice.

Own it.

Don't blame it on the other, not even in part. The person having an affair is 100% responsible for his/her actions. Period.

There is no justification for adultery. None.

YES 100%

[hope2727]

These helped me to understand. 

Perhaps they can help someone else too.


www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/victim_blaming.html

www.abuseandrelationships.org/Content/Survivors/couples_therapy.html

[Pingo]

What a horrific experience you had going places! To not only be betrayed by your h but to then be manipulated into believing it's your fault... .not only by your h but by the pastor as well, someone who should have been your advocate! I'm so sorry this happened to you.

Infidelity is absolutely a choice. A selfish, lazy choice. Like enlighten me said, instead of doing the work on the r/s or deciding to leave, they do what they want... .with no regard to anyone else.  I've been in two unhealthy marriages. The first marriage I was in for 10 yrs and we had totally lost our connection. Yet I would never have cheated on him! There's no excuse in my opinion. This goes against my moral code and the vows I took.

[Notwendy]

Makes me wonder about that "pastor".

I think the 10 commandments don't include " thou shalt not commit adultery unless your wife makes you do it".

It is his choice and his responsibility.

However, sometimes couples choose to go to counseling to try to repair the r/s after infidelity. This is a tough thing to do, and it requires each person to look at their own contribution to the marriage. Still, the person who cheated is accountable for his/her behavior.

[hope2727]

I managed to heal after my first husband was unfaithful. We went on to have a good 10 years together followed by a horrible 2 and a brutal divorce. He took responsibility for the first affair and was sincerely sorry. Having said that he had affairs in the last 2 years.  So I have come to believe people who cheat do and people who don't don't. Its a deeply seated core value.

I can tell you I wouldn't do couples counselling unless my therapist had read that link on couples therapy. And in truth I wouldn't counsel with a cheater again. Nor would I counsel with an abuser. I doesn't really have much of a success rate. I just can't be bothered to waste my time on it again. Now that is just personally my own opinion.  I totally respect those who do as goodness knows I have done it twice now with 2 different men. 

[Notwendy]

I don't know what I would do if I were cheated on.

I have a friend who did work on repairing her marriage. What she told me was that her H was very remorseful and took full accountability for it, which included apologizing to his children ( who were old enough to know that it happened). Then a lot of counseling.

I think it depends on the total situation. I don't know all the details or the husband, but I got the impression that he was someone who did not have a PD, could take self inventory, could own what he did and be accountable for it. That it was a one time thing and he felt sincerely bad about it and did not want to repeat it.

The hard part for her was deciding if she could continue being married after that and it seems she could.

If it was a situation where someone had a PD, or an addiction- which included projection, denial, dishonesty about the affair, and an incomplete accoutability, and repeated cheating- then I think that is a different situation to consider, and I would be less likely to think that counseling would be as effective.

[going places]

Moving forward, I would never ever counsel again w/ and adulterer.

Ever.

Adultery starts with lust.

Lust is a deep seated issue all on it's own.

Mix that with deception and lies (which are of the utmost importance when committing adultery)

Yeah, no thank you.

If a person can juggle / balance this many negative emotions INSIDE with a smile on their face and an "I love you too" on the phone while committing adultery?

That is not someone I ever want to be around.

Fool me once, shame on you, and see you later.

There will not be a chance, to fool me twice, ever again.

It's like burning your hand on the stove.

It hurts. The scar on your hand is a reminder of how much it hurt, and not to do it again.

WHO in their right mind, looks at the scar, remembers the pain, and says "I think I will lay my hand on the stove again".

Not me baby!

[Maternus]

If a person can juggle / balance this many negative emotions INSIDE with a smile on their face and an "I love you too" on the phone while committing adultery?

That is not someone I ever want to be around.

I must admit, I have done that. This is how the marriage with my nonBPDexw ended, while I was love bombed by my uBPDexgf. It is nothing I am proud of. But the last years of our marriage was like lying in a tomb for both of us. We were together for 25 years and married for 10 years. The relationship was absolutely fantastic and peaceful and full of true intimacy over the first 20 years, but when we moved closer to my dysfunctional family everything went downhill. My family started to triangulate our marriage, my mother conquered my wife as her best friend until it felt like I was married to my mother in the end.

About 4 years later the same happened to me. My uBPDex told me she love me, while she was hanging out with her affair who became my replacement. But one thing was different. I didn't tell my non-ex that I cheated on her because of things she had done. I told her that I feel there's something very wrong with me and my life. Today I know what was wrong, it was my families influence on our life. My uBPDex told me, she cheated on me and left me, because I was spending too much time working, had not enough time for her, showed too little interest in having sex with her (after she used sex as a weapon to control me, I actually stopped to initiate sex). 

[maxsterling]

Agree 100% here.  Cheating happens, but when it does, own up to it as a choice.  My wife has never cheated on me.  And given our relationship as it is right now, I would be surprised if she did.  But if she did, THERE IS NO DOUBT SHE WOULD BLAME ME.

My wife has told me about cheating on partners in the past.  And every time she has an excuse as to why it was not cheating.  "I was a drug addict and out of control."  "He wouldn't ask me to marry him so I was trying to make him jealous."  "It wasn't a serious relationship."  Never any ownership (at least in her recant of the story to me) that it was a decision of hers that hurt someone else. 

Infidelity hurts.  But I can imagine being blamed for it afterwards feels a whole lot worse.

[JohnLove]

Oh max... .I can SO relate to your "suffering". In every post in this thread, and elsewhere.

I guess it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out which "type" my BPDgf is. 

[Chosen]

I completely agree, and I think adultery is a cowardly thing to do.

If one partner is so bad, the other could end the relationship before pursing a relationship with somebody else.

The fact that he/she chose to have an affair while in a relationship, no matter how bad the relationship is, is his/her own choice and cannot be blamed on another person.

[Reforming]

I completely agree and I remember trying to make this point to my ex.

You don't just fall into bed with another person - it's the end result of a series of decisions and choices that you make.

THE typical reaction of most people who are caught cheating is to

(A) Lie and deny and when that doesn't work anymore

(B) Blame circumstances, their relationship and even their partner for the infidelity

And it's not just BPDs - lots of Nons are guilty of the same behaviour.

Saying that I think it's particularly difficult to get a BPD to take responsibility for their own behaviour and own their choices.

My ex never really acknowledged her responsibility for her affair or the damage it did to me. She did apologise a couple of times, but in a very desultory way. She never owned what she had done and there was no empathy or remorse

Very childlike really

Reforming

[waverider]

Often its a symptom of a "done" relationship, so recovery from it is hard.

pwBPDs ability to compartmentalize often means they see it is their business, and non of their partners business and so don't really get the impact it has.

[Grey Kitty]

Cheating or adultery is the choice of the person doing it. End of statement.

This next part is not a contradiction even though it seems like one. Cheating is seldom the only problem in a relationship when it happens. And the other problems probably don't all belong to one person in the relationship. That part gets complicated.

I've been cheated on. I think I could forgive that. However that isn't enough to save my marriage, and I don't think it will be saved.

[ColdEthyl]

I agree 100%. My ex-husband didn't have an affair, but he did start chatting with women online sexually and got himself caught. We were married 14 years, this started going on in the last 4, all of which were bad and full of poison by the time this cropped up.

I felt really hurt. Betrayed, ugly, useless... .you name it. Was it me? did I not look good anymore? Too much weight? What did she offer I have not? Did he think of me at all when he was doing these things? Didn't he think of how hurt he might have been if I did that to him? Logically I know it wasn't ME, but I felt like it was.

I won't do it again. My H knows one of my boundaries is no cheating. If he cheats... .I'm gone. Hurts too much.

[Rockylove]

Adultery IS a choice.  We all have thoughts, but acting on them is something that I find abhorrent.  The counsel you received sounds biased and I'd seek counsel for yourself on this one.  I'm so sorry this is an issue for you.   

[Reforming]

Often its a symptom of a "done" relationship, so recovery from it is hard.

pwBPDs ability to compartmentalize often means they see it is their business, and non of their partners business and so don't really get the impact it has.

The traditional conclusion has been infidelity only happens when a relationship is terminally damaged. Both partners bear responsibility for the failure of a relationship and by extension the affair, which would not have happened if the relationship was healthy.

This can feel like a double blow to the betrayed partner, who ends up feeling at least partially responsible for the behaviour of his or her spouse while the unfaithful partner uses it as an excuse to avoid taking personal responsibility for their choices and behaviour.

Thankfully MCs and Ts are beginning to rethink the idea that infidelity is a product of a "done" relationship.

They've realised that there are many people who have affairs, even though they are in happy or secure relationships. There are people who have affairs because it's part of a pattern of compulsive behaviour. There are people who have affairs because they haven't found the courage to confront the issues in their relationship, communicate with their partner and try to get their needs met.

70% choose to stay and try and work through it. Recovery is not impossible, but it's hard and requires courage, humility and emotional maturity. These qualities are often in short supply in a relationship with a BPD.

On numerous posts all over these boards many of us struggle and work to understand why we were drawn into relationships with BPD and why we stayed or stay.

In my experience taking responsibility for my choices and my behaviours has been one of the most challenging steps to healing.

People cheat for many different reasons, but they are responsible for that choice. Every relationship will go through tough times and you choose how you respond to these challenges. If the only option is to end the relationship - you try and do it with some degree of mutual care and respect.

I'm not saying that this is easy, I realise that it's not, but Infidelity is never the answer