she gave me permission to email I sent this

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I do not know about anyone else, but the language here disturbs me:

"She gave me permission to email"

"but I truly feel I can just be friends with her if she will allow and trust me to.

Also, I think that this is fantasy thinking:

"She was high functioning , her issues were her total selfishness  , sulking , anxiety , passive aggressive , irritability , depression , need to soothe , lack of self , paranoia , victim mentality etc "

"Things as a friend I would not have to deal with." .

Why would you not have to deal with these personality traits? That is who she is?

I am pointing this out to you dobie because when I was still in the FOG this is maybe what my language or thinking may have been... .but as I moved away from that and started to heal, I was not using language like that and I was starting to see the true from the false.

I was seeing her unhealthiness and my part in the dysfunctional dance, as well.

BTW ... .I was not able to do that on my own. My therapist pointed these things out to me.

[Infared]

I do not know about anyone else, but the language here disturbs me:

"She gave me permission to email"

"but I truly feel I can just be friends with her if she will allow and trust me to.

Also, I think that this is fantasy thinking:

"She was high functioning , her issues were her total selfishness  , sulking , anxiety , passive aggressive , irritability , depression , need to soothe , lack of self , paranoia , victim mentality etc "

"Things as a friend I would not have to deal with." .

Why would you not have to deal with these personality traits? That is who she is?

I am pointing this out to you dobie because when I was still in the FOG this is maybe what my language or thinking may have been... .but as I moved away from that and started to heal, I was not using language like that and I was starting to see the true from the false.

I was seeing her unhealthiness and my part in the dysfunctional dance, as well.

BTW ... .I was not able to do that on my own. My therapist pointed these things out to me.

[dobie]

Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick .

You guys are right how can I be friends with a person who never once showed any sadness over the BU after the first week , who selfishly trashed everything before she left so as to cause me maximum damage showed no empathy or remorse and screamed she should have left me years ago and only showed remorse for the money she had spent in our home and as a couple ... .

Once she worked out she could live without me (I.e I'm no longer needed)

Who is so emotionally stunted she couldn't even understand or sympathise with all the pain and grief  she put me through and who can't even be bothered to reply after over six years to an email or even feel sorry for the sadness of a six year r/s ending

who admitted even her previous bfs were just there for her use and needs .

I need to stop projecting she is not some poor troubled soul with goodness in her she is a mentally I'll person who only cares about herself first and foremost and uses and discards people .

[Infared]

Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick .

You guys are right how can I be friends with a person who never once showed any sadness over the BU after the first week , who selfishly trashed everything before she left so as to cause me maximum damage showed no empathy or remorse and screamed she should have left me years ago and only showed remorse for the money she had spent in our home and as a couple ... .

Once she worked out she could live without me (I.e I'm no longer needed)

Who is so emotionally stunted she couldn't even understand or sympathise with all the pain and grief  she put me through and who can't even be bothered to reply after over six years to an email or even feel sorry for the sadness of a six year r/s ending

who admitted even her previous bfs were just there for her use and needs .

I need to stop projecting she is not some poor troubled soul with goodness in her she is a mentally ill person who only cares about herself first and foremost and uses and discards people .

"I need to stop projecting she is not some poor troubled soul with goodness in her she is a mentally ill person who only cares about herself first and foremost and uses and discards people ."

Put that on the rinse and repeat cycle in your head... .let the truth was over you. 

[apollotech]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

[dobie]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

This is true and what im working with in therapy , it sticks in my gut everyday my dream of buying our house together , my best friend , the person I was supposed to marry this year all the dreams gone and I'm left picking up the pieces while she dates new guys and has all these new friends and holidays and things to look forward to .

I gave her all my energy love and compassion hours everyday "caretaking her"  till she Burnt me out till I was left a shell of my former self  she drained me dry then cut me off with not a glimpse of real human feelings .

I don't even think I can ever trust another r/s again .

It took me years to let her in to trust her promises and when I'd did and gave her the upper "hand"  bamm the distrust and the push/pull started .

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

[Mutt]

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Don't be hard on yourself. How long did the idealization phase last with your ex? How long did she get you until she started ignoring you and it was all about her needs, push pull and blaming you for her ailments?

Do you think perhaps your not ready to date?

[dobie]

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Don't be hard on yourself. There's not one magical person despite what we may culturally think. We're compatible with many people.

Do you think perhaps your not ready to date?

I'm aware of red flags now mutt , I'm 37 never met a women like her probably never will again .

That's the tragedy . that's the grief for me ... .

On the other hand she told me repeadetly she could never meet a man like me till we broke up and told me she could .

[Infared]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

This is true and what im working with in therapy , it sticks in my gut everyday my dream of buying our house together , my best friend , the person I was supposed to marry this year all the dreams gone and I'm left picking up the pieces while she dates new guys and has all these new friends and holidays and things to look forward to .

I gave her all my energy love and compassion hours everyday "caretaking her"  till she Burnt me out till I was left a shell of my former self  she drained me dry then cut me off with not a glimpse of real human feelings .

I don't even think I can ever trust another r/s again .

It took me years to let her in to trust her promises and when I'd did and gave her the upper "hand"  bamm the distrust and the push/pull started .

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Dobie... .I soo know how you feel. You are doing good things for yourself! Please just keep putting one foot in front of the other... .it gets better.

[Maternus]

She can't use the I was "busy excuse " for longer than a few weeks though

That was the excuse of my ex for not responding to emails: "I was busy". We had a lot of things to settle, we just rented a house together and I subscribed for all the contracts regarding the house for electricity, internet, tv, heating costs and so on. But she travelled with my replacement to her mother - to introduce him to her after two weeks of our breakup - didn't respond to my emails and when I broach the subject of our contracts again, she answered "I was busy". "I was busy" was also her answer when I asked her, who she's doing. No word about how she is thinking about the breakup, no emotional response, she was busy, life goes on, break ups are normal and there are more important things to do, than to think about a lost relationship.

[dobie]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

This is true and what im working with in therapy , it sticks in my gut everyday my dream of buying our house together , my best friend , the person I was supposed to marry this year all the dreams gone and I'm left picking up the pieces while she dates new guys and has all these new friends and holidays and things to look forward to .

I gave her all my energy love and compassion hours everyday "caretaking her"  till she Burnt me out till I was left a shell of my former self  she drained me dry then cut me off with not a glimpse of real human feelings .

I don't even think I can ever trust another r/s again .

It took me years to let her in to trust her promises and when I'd did and gave her the upper "hand"  bamm the distrust and the push/pull started .

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Dobie... .I soo know how you feel. You are doing good things for yourself! Please just keep putting one foot in front of the other... .it gets better.

Thanks bro I felt almost suicidal today (just a feeling not acting never would ) I'm so annoyed with myself I mean this women fancied me while I had a gf and she had a bf she even got him to invite me to her bday party because she wanted me she then hunted me down till she did .

She even told me early on in the r/s that the one time she was dumped she was only upset because she had no one else in her life and the guy she left for me (three years together) she stopped fancying after three weeks but stayed with him as she wanted someone stable I mean ffs where was my alarm bells !

[Infared]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

This is true and what im working with in therapy , it sticks in my gut everyday my dream of buying our house together , my best friend , the person I was supposed to marry this year all the dreams gone and I'm left picking up the pieces while she dates new guys and has all these new friends and holidays and things to look forward to .

I gave her all my energy love and compassion hours everyday "caretaking her"  till she Burnt me out till I was left a shell of my former self  she drained me dry then cut me off with not a glimpse of real human feelings .

I don't even think I can ever trust another r/s again .

It took me years to let her in to trust her promises and when I'd did and gave her the upper "hand"  bamm the distrust and the push/pull started .

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Dobie... .I soo know how you feel. You are doing good things for yourself! Please just keep putting one foot in front of the other... .it gets better.

Thanks bro I felt almost suicidal today (just a feeling not acting never would ) I'm so annoyed with myself I mean this women fancied me while I had a gf and she had a bf she even got him to invite me to her bday party because she wanted me she then hunted me down till she did .

She even told me early on in the r/s that the one time she was dumped she was only upset because she had no one else in her life and the guy she left for me (three years together) she stopped fancying after three weeks but stayed with him as she wanted someone stable I mean ffs where was my alarm bells !

Hindsight is perfect sight... we just were excited in the relationship and thought that those things would never happen to us. Right?

I think we have all been in that place after these relationships and we have to REALLY a focus on forgiving ourselves for our folly. I know in my case all the information was there even before date one. Really obvious in hindsight... .

[dobie]

"Had to delete Instagram I just saw some pictures of her out looking healthy and happy felt sick ."

dobie,

What you have written about yourself in the above quoted material is a problem. You do not have control of yourself. She is still triggering you. You are still emotionally tied to her my friend. If you have not reached indifference regarding this woman then you need to stay away from her.

This is not about her; it is about you. Work on yourself; get control of yourself. That is the only way to end this chaos that you are caught up in. It is not about NC. NC is a bandaid placed over gangue green. NC is not the answer. All NC affords is distance and time away from the problem so that you can gain control of yourself; thereby, allowing you to eventually gain control over said problem. NC is a tool, not a solution. That is not to say that you shouldn't be practicing NC in your situation. But, during this time you need to stop focusing on her and start working on you, get control of you.

This is true and what im working with in therapy , it sticks in my gut everyday my dream of buying our house together , my best friend , the person I was supposed to marry this year all the dreams gone and I'm left picking up the pieces while she dates new guys and has all these new friends and holidays and things to look forward to .

I gave her all my energy love and compassion hours everyday "caretaking her"  till she Burnt me out till I was left a shell of my former self  she drained me dry then cut me off with not a glimpse of real human feelings .

I don't even think I can ever trust another r/s again .

It took me years to let her in to trust her promises and when I'd did and gave her the upper "hand"  bamm the distrust and the push/pull started .

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

Dobie... .I soo know how you feel. You are doing good things for yourself! Please just keep putting one foot in front of the other... .it gets better.

Thanks bro I felt almost suicidal today (just a feeling not acting never would ) I'm so annoyed with myself I mean this women fancied me while I had a gf and she had a bf she even got him to invite me to her bday party because she wanted me she then hunted me down till she did .

She even told me early on in the r/s that the one time she was dumped she was only upset because she had no one else in her life and the guy she left for me (three years together) she stopped fancying after three weeks but stayed with him as she wanted someone stable I mean ffs where was my alarm bells !

Hindsight is perfect sight... we just were excited in the relationship and thought that those things would never happen to us. Right?

I think we have all been in that place after these relationships and we have to REALLY a focus on forgiving ourselves for our folly. I know in my case all the information was there even before date one. Really obvious in hindsight... .

Man I was dumb , niave and selfish I'm glad I'm a better person now than I was 7 years ago if a women said that to me now I'd 180 her

I didn't even know about BPD till I started posting about the BU on another forum and her behaviours and people were like "she sounds like she has BPD traits "

Came here and low and behold I find similarities left right and centre with other posters and my x was a "mild case" I don't know how some of the guys and gals rode that ride with the more obvious or intense BPDers

[dobie]

The worst part is I've met and "dated" 10 women since the b/u and not one is as attractive or smart or got me like her ... .and what does that say about me ? That the women I most want to be with is disorded , selfish and cruel

hi mutt

sorry missed the question

she idealised me for the first 4-5 years though her other bad traits were there id say the last couple of years esp the last year or so she really started the anxious thinking about us the paranoia about me screwing her over or her being left with nothing if we broke up money , safety and security are issues with her the are we right for each other comments , what do we have in common why am i still so unhappy etc etc her admittance she had been distancing herself from my family etc etc


its all so hard to work out i met her when she was 23 she left me just before she turned 30 immature yep paranoid yep victim mentality yep need for soothing yep anxious attachment style yep

BPDer i don't know

Don't be hard on yourself. How long did the idealization phase last with your ex? How long did she get you until she started ignoring you and it was all about her needs, push pull and blaming you for her ailments?

Do you think perhaps your not ready to date?

[Sunfl0wer]

I asked my bro to ask her as she blocked me on phone \ FB etc she said yes

I'm not a 100% but I do miss her and I do care I think it would be hard at first but I truly feel I can just be friends with her if she will allow and trust me to mutt .

A pwBPD have difficulties trusting themselves and others dobie.

Do you think that you've reached a place in your personal healing where the wounds have healed enough?

Good question!

I was originally comparing my r/s with my uBPDex to my other ex r/s.  I have a friendship with a nonBPD ex so I was reasoning, thinking, well I don't see why I cannot do the same with my uBPDex.

That question you ask is the difference.

My non ex and I were only able to develop a friendship after several years of distance and moving on.

My uBPDex and I, well, I know that I have not finished the healing from our r/s BU.

Yes the difference.

Another difference is two healthy adults will provide some closure when a r/s ends, whereas finding closure in a r/s where a partner suffers from a mental  illness are the dynamics. It's incredibly painful when we're not given closure; our partners survive day to day and are often overwhelmed with their feelings and pain and can display little empathy to ex partners or other significant people in that person's life.  

We can give closure to ourselves.

How, Mutt?  How did you give closure to yourself?  I'm not sure what that would look like.

[Pingo]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

[Invictus01]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

Bingo. And the worst thing in all this is that "perfect" is a moving target and you don't even know what it is that you need to do to make things perfect. For that matter, they don't know it either and will never be able to communicate it with you. And on top of all of this, from everything I have read, you will NEVER get back to that initial "perfect" relationship you are trying to get back to. At least for any extended period of time. I am not sure how it is possible to ever be happy in a relationship like this.

[jhkbuzz]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

Very well said.

I think any time I considered a recycle attempt I was ruminating on the very beginning of the r/s when things were good. But Pingo is absolutely right - while you may be idealizing the r/s in your imagination, the anxiety, stress, chaos and depression that would arise the minute problems started to crop up would absolutely flatten you emotionally.

Dobie, you are grieving HARD.  We understand. You are ping ponging between the anger and depression stages of grief - we can all relate.

Here are some truths:

• If you are really honest with yourself, you will admit that, in your heart of hearts, you want much more than a "friendship" with your ex - you want her back.



• It would be very, very difficult to maintain a friendship when you want more than a friendship. That, in essence, is self-inflicted torture.



• There is probably a disconnect between what your head knows (GET OUT!) and what your heart wants (HER!)

We have ALL been where you are - all of us.  But there are many of us that can also tell you that, as you come to the accept that the r/s is over; as you implement n/c; and as you allow yourself to go through the stages of grief and experience the pain in its fully glory, you WILL start to heal.  YOU WILL.  It takes time, but you will get there. And your life will be immeasurably better without the chaos that a mentally disordered person brings to the table.

In the meantime, we're all here for you.

[ShadowIntheNight]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

My issue has more to do with now I know some guy has been pulled into her life and of course he is going to be ruminating and begging her to get back together all the time. And of course she will be doing it behind my back and then saying things like "he just won't let it go," not only because she is still keeping him hanging on, but also because it is her way to keep me off balance of her staying or going. I never recognized that behavior in her when we were together. I actually ignored it, thought it was immaturity on her part. But I think deep down it made me work harder to keep her. And that was really what she was after anyway. As if it mattered in the end, right?

And frankly, knowing that she's told someone else that she loves him and ALL that goes with that, it would be all I could do not to punch her in the nose when I was with her. I'm not even sure I love you or I've got your back would or could ever come out of my mouth again when it comes to her.

[dobie]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

Very well said.

I think any time I considered a recycle attempt I was ruminating on the very beginning of the r/s when things were good. But Pingo is absolutely right - while you may be idealizing the r/s in your imagination, the anxiety, stress, chaos and depression that would arise the minute problems started to crop up would absolutely flatten you emotionally.

Dobie, you are grieving HARD.  We understand. You are ping ponging between the anger and depression stages of grief - we can all relate.

Here are some truths:

• If you are really honest with yourself, you will admit that, in your heart of hearts, you want much more than a "friendship" with your ex - you want her back.



• It would be very, very difficult to maintain a friendship when you want more than a friendship. That is, in essence, self-inflicted torture.



• There is probably a disconnect between what your head knows (GET OUT!) and what your heart wants (HER!)

We have ALL been where you are - all of us.  But there are many of us that can also tell you that, as you come to the accept that the r/s is over; as you implement n/c; and as you allow yourself to go through the stages of grief and experience the pain in its fully glory, you WILL start to heal.  YOU WILL.  It takes time, but you will get there. And your life will be immeasurably better without the chaos that a mentally disordered person brings to the table.

In the meantime, we're all here for you.

Beautiful post thank you in fact thank all of you this board and its members have been great .

The thing is I don't know for sure she is BPD or has the traits as she is undiag if I look at behaviours I see without doubt

Emotional Immaturity

Fits of anxiety /depression

Need for soothing  

Weak sense of self

Paranoia

Distrust

Idealisation

Victim mentality

Low to no empathy

Use and discard

No real long term stable friendships apart from one perhaps

An emotionally abusive alcoholic father

Passive aggressive behaviours

Selfishness

An Insecure attachment style

Feelings of being boring and uninteresting

Never any lasting happiness moments but never for long



My point is I'm not sure if I'm dealing with a BPDer , or someone without mental illness who is just not very nice  a lot of the time .

Yes I am escalating between grief and anger I was hoping a friendship with my eyes open would burn out any grief or feelings I had .

[Sunfl0wer]

Please hear me... .

I am NOT being sarcastic or a wise guy in anyway when I ask... .

What do you hope to get out of a clearly defined label?

[dobie]

Please hear me... .

I am NOT being sarcastic or a wise guy in anyway when I ask... .

What do you hope to get out of a clearly defined label?

Hi sunflower

Thank you BTW for the lovely pm just got back from work but will reply later 

I guess I want to know if she is "normal" is the BU normal are the behaviours normal or is she I'll ... .if she is I'll then I can feel compassion and hope I guess .

[Pingo]

Dobie, I know you would really like to know one way or another if she is BPD... .most of us on here have exes that are undiagnosed. Something brought you to this site. Your experience is what matters, not the label. I have no idea if my ex is BPD. He is actually more likely PPD... .and he has a brain injury so it really confuses things. In the beginning I really wanted to sort it out but as time passed I realised it doesn't matter. What matters is that he treated me in a way that caused me pain. I deserved better. And it was obvious that I could not fix or save him. That was not my job. That was his.

What jhkbuzz said was spot on... .it does get better with time, staying NC is important to your own mental health. It is painful as hell but there is light at the end of the tunnel and you will come to be able to see her from a more objective place, taking care of yourself first and foremost. Hang in there! 

[Invictus01]

Only a psychiatrist who has met with her for a long time (months if not a years) can tell you if your ex has a personality disorder. However, the very same psychiatrists will tell you that (a) the vast majority of PD people won't go into an evaluation, (b) out of those who will go in, many will be misdiagnosed with something else for various reasons, (b) out of those who are actually diagnosed with a PD, many will not go into treatment. So, basically, only select few will be diagnosed with BPD and seek treatment for it. And by the way, even after years of treatment they might not get better. So, in many cases, the only thing you can go by is what you went through and how it compares to warning signs that are readily available. You also can compare what you went through with other people's experience. The crazy thing about all that is that in most cases, all of those stories read like an exactly the same story, just different characters involved.

[Sunfl0wer]

Dobie,

NP, you had me worried a couple of posts back.

Anyway, "normal" is a subjective term.

Mutt hasn't responded yet, I'm sure he will, but I am wondering what it is we need to do for ourselves to find closure.

I imagine that you likely want to label her in order to find a sense of closure for yourself.

It would be easy for me to say that my ex "has N/BPD," metaphorically just throw that stamp on his head. That in a way, could bring me closure.  I could use that stamp to console myself and tell myself that he was never relationship material to begin with.  I could use that information to tell myself that dispite all my "perfect' efforts, even if he were to date Jesus Christ, Miss perfect herself, that he had no chance in a relationship.  I admit, yes, this would help bring me closure.

Unfortunately, this is not what I am left with.  I have a man, a wonderful man, I loved dearly, was devoted to, and it did not work out.  I DO need to find a way to come to terms with that.

There will never be a stamp on his forehead that says "N/BPD" and ooh, in a perfect world, I WISH someone would stamp that damn forehead for all to see.

But then in all fairness, my forehead too would be stamped with a red flag of PTSD, and others would be stamped with other things too.  Someone could be stamped with "will get terminal cancer in 5 years."  Ya just never know what will be on all of our foreheads!

I guess what I'm saying is that you will likely never get that stamp you are looking for.  It will never be presented to you in such black and white terms.

Life is shades of grey.  Coping with this, is more shades of grey.

I wish there was a simple answer.  I haven't seen one yet.

I hope someone reads my words and challenges me and shows us both proof of the simple answer for our struggle.

I think though the point of the lesson that we are supposed to gather through this mixed up journey, is that there is VALUE in this struggle.  This damn struggle that we want off of us has meaning and purpose, we just have to face it, not try to rid ourselves of it with a stamp.

I think it is easy for some, you may see that it may be "easy" for some that have brandished their SO with a "BPD stamp."  They can "blame" so much misfortune on that stamp.  And JUSTIFIABLY so, I suspect things are not that easy for anyone.  I am open to ideas and understanding, I am not a senior member here by any means, just under a month, however, I suspect stamping people does not make our lives easier.  Sometimes it is a coping mechanism in itself, sometimes it can prevent us from doing the work we NEED to do and looking into ourselves.  Other times maybe it serves a more useful purpose.

I may feel differently as time passes, however, these are my thoughts to share today.

I hope you are doing better Dobie!

[jhkbuzz]

For those of you who say that if given the chance you'd go back to your exBPD, I commend you for your honesty and I get it, I recycled too. But how do you imagine that going? Could you realistically imagine being able to ever relax into the r/s ever if you were the one being discarded? With all the knowledge of BPD you now have, would you not just be waiting for the next discarding? I can't imagine how stressful that would be, to live like that, be trying to do everything 'perfectly' in order to not scare them away or make them feel engulfed/abandoned. What kind of future is this for us nons? When I read on the staying board, I don't see much happiness. I see a lot of people giving up their own happiness in order to 'save' a r/s. Is it worth giving up our happiness and feelings of safety in a r/s just to be with them? If so, why?

Very well said.

I think any time I considered a recycle attempt I was ruminating on the very beginning of the r/s when things were good. But Pingo is absolutely right - while you may be idealizing the r/s in your imagination, the anxiety, stress, chaos and depression that would arise the minute problems started to crop up would absolutely flatten you emotionally.

Dobie, you are grieving HARD.  We understand. You are ping ponging between the anger and depression stages of grief - we can all relate.

Here are some truths:

• If you are really honest with yourself, you will admit that, in your heart of hearts, you want much more than a "friendship" with your ex - you want her back.



• It would be very, very difficult to maintain a friendship when you want more than a friendship. That is, in essence, self-inflicted torture.



• There is probably a disconnect between what your head knows (GET OUT!) and what your heart wants (HER!)

We have ALL been where you are - all of us.  But there are many of us that can also tell you that, as you come to the accept that the r/s is over; as you implement n/c; and as you allow yourself to go through the stages of grief and experience the pain in its fully glory, you WILL start to heal.  YOU WILL.  It takes time, but you will get there. And your life will be immeasurably better without the chaos that a mentally disordered person brings to the table.

In the meantime, we're all here for you.

Beautiful post thank you in fact thank all of you this board and its members have been great .

The thing is I don't know for sure she is BPD or has the traits as she is undiag if I look at behaviours I see without doubt

Emotional Immaturity

Fits of anxiety /depression

Need for soothing  

Weak sense of self

Paranoia

Distrust

Idealisation

Victim mentality

Low to no empathy

Use and discard

No real long term stable friendships apart from one perhaps

An emotionally abusive alcoholic father

Passive aggressive behaviours

Selfishness

An Insecure attachment style

Feelings of being boring and uninteresting

Never any lasting happiness moments but never for long


My point is I'm not sure if I'm dealing with a BPDer , or someone without mental illness who is just not very nice a lot of the time .

Yes I am escalating between grief and anger I was hoping a friendship with my eyes open would burn out any grief or feelings I had .

I bolded the ones that fit for my ex - who is undiagnosed as well.

But is having an "official" diagnosis really important anyway?

Answer the following question honestly, without "splitting her" in your mind (by thinking about only the "good" side of her). On the whole: were you happy? Would you be happy if you continued in the r/s but nothing changed substantially? (And the "substantially unchanged" is exactly what you would be dealing with if you got back together, btw. Don't kid yourself about this).

Try to get the focus off her (and her possible BPD for a moment): Is who she is and the r/s you had what you envision a close, intimate, fulfilling r/s to be?

If the answer is no, then it doesn't matter whether or not she has BPD.  YOU'RE not happy, and you weren't happy for a long time. Meditate on THAT thought as you consider how to move forward into the next chapter of your life.

[Sunfl0wer]

BTW Dobie, she is HUMAN. (either way) Yes, you can feel compassion for her.  I can tell that you already do.  There is nothing wrong with this.  It just means that YOU are compassionate!

[Pingo]

I agree with Sunflower, you don't need a label to feel compassion. And one day you may feel it and the next you are p*ssed off and have zero compassion... .all normal parts of grieving.

Closure is a big issue for most people on this board. Or lack of closure. The fact is there will likely never be anything you can get from them that will give you closure. True closure comes when you realise that your experience is all that matters. What you are taking away from the r/s. Like Sunflower said, finding meaning and purpose. I used my grief to explore my past losses and grievances I had not dealt with. It was a nightmare and a saving grace all at the same time. It comes with time and acceptance. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and feel the feelings that come up.  You'll get there!

[Sunfl0wer]

jhkbuzz,

I am experiencing how helpful these boards are!

Answer the following question honestly, without "splitting her" in your mind (by thinking about only the "good" side of her). On the whole: were you happy? Would you be happy if you continued in the r/s but nothing changed substantially? (And the "substantially unchanged" is exactly what you would be dealing with if you got back together, btw. Don't kid yourself about this).

Thank you these questions.  It helps me to see, that as time went on and his mask was removed, that I was actually more in love with "our potential" as I saw it.

After applying RA, NO WAY!  I was NOT in love with what we were the past 3 years.  I was in love with what we could be, finding the man I spent the first year with, finding the moments in between the craziness and FOG.  I was in search of how to rip the BPD and NPD out of him to get what I adored!  I took him to MC for over a year, then dragged him to another after that for over a year.     Our MC said that he "would lend him his ego" as he confirmed exBf had none.  I had hope of him achieving ego development!  :/  I was clinging to the hope of the direction and path that only I envisioned and was willing to drag him down... .until I lost steam, and strength!  Heck, I have PTSD and have overcome so much, why couldn't he too, he is smart as well?

Just little by little, the pieces are coming together, it is making more sense, having this distance without him.

Thank you!

[jhkbuzz]

jhkbuzz,

I am experiencing how helpful these boards are!

Answer the following question honestly, without "splitting her" in your mind (by thinking about only the "good" side of her). On the whole: were you happy? Would you be happy if you continued in the r/s but nothing changed substantially? (And the "substantially unchanged" is exactly what you would be dealing with if you got back together, btw. Don't kid yourself about this).

Thank you these questions.  It helps me to see, that as time went on and his mask was removed, that I was actually more in love with "our potential" as I saw it.

After applying RA, NO WAY!  I was NOT in love with what we were the past 3 years. I was in love with what we could be, finding the man I spent the first year with, finding the moments in between the craziness and FOG.I was in search of how to rip the BPD and NPD out of him to get what I adored!  I took him to MC for over a year, then dragged him to another after that for over a year.    Our MC said that he "would lend him his ego" as he confirmed exBf had none.  I had hope of him achieving ego development!  :/  I was clinging to the hope of the direction and path that only I envisioned and was willing to drag him down... .until I lost steam, and strength!  Heck, I have PTSD and have overcome so much, why couldn't he too, he is smart as well?

Just little by little, the pieces are coming together, it is making more sense, having this distance without him.

Thank you!

You're welcome  BTW, I could have written much of that ^ myself.

[Turkish]

This thread has reached its post limit. Please feel free to start a new topic to continue the discussion.