Using sex immediately to draw you in...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This topic isn't about how initial sex with a BPDer is mind blowing as how quickly it happens.

My exBPDgf was a virgin before we started dating.  I was her first adult boyfriend.  She kept that on the down low for a bit.  Once that was established, she was ALL about having sex with me.  She was out of town for a while, but as soon as she returned, it was hot and heavy.  Not to go into detail, but she was VERY open sexually from the start, which surprised me given her inexperience.  She would never turn down an opportunity to do it, and craved me.  After a while, as it is with most BPD relationships, it went from being passionate to a requirement, and intimidating.

She broke up with me two years ago and a guy at college asked her out.  On the first date, SIX days after meeting him, and only having been around him in class (a couple of hours) she slept with him, and suddenly it was a serious relationship.  She recycled with me, but did the same thing last year with a guy she worked with.  She's currently seeing yet ANOTHER guy she works with, and I have no doubt she slept with him at the first opportunity.

This is in sharp contrast to my other relationships, where the girl and I would get to know each other a little bit, spend time together, THEN have sex.  I've had a one night stand before, and it was understood that is exactly what it was.  But seeing my ex jump into bed with someone immediately is startling, considering her body issues (overweight) and social insecurity.  She repeatedly told me I was the only person she felt comfortable around, yet here she was, sleeping with men immediately.  And, as you might expect, the guy's tongue was wagging after that, which is probably what she wanted.

When I would bring this up, she would call me "old fashioned" and said that most people have sex on the first date, and how it "isn't a big deal" to her.  This went against pretty much every other factor about her personality.  Which brings me to this topic - is this a BPD trait?  To use sex to snag a guy?  And use openness with sex to snag a guy?

I know people have sex on the first date.  I know people have sex frequently, but it always surprised me how my ex had no problem jumping into bed with a guy she had just met.  Thoughts?

[4Years5Months]

This topic isn't about how initial sex with a BPDer is mind blowing as how quickly it happens.

My exBPDgf was a virgin before we started dating.  I was her first adult boyfriend.  She kept that on the down low for a bit.  Once that was established, she was ALL about having sex with me.  She was out of town for a while, but as soon as she returned, it was hot and heavy.  Not to go into detail, but she was VERY open sexually from the start, which surprised me given her inexperience.  She would never turn down an opportunity to do it, and craved me.  After a while, as it is with most BPD relationships, it went from being passionate to a requirement, and intimidating.

She broke up with me two years ago and a guy at college asked her out.  On the first date, SIX days after meeting him, and only having been around him in class (a couple of hours) she slept with him, and suddenly it was a serious relationship.  She recycled with me, but did the same thing last year with a guy she worked with.  She's currently seeing yet ANOTHER guy she works with, and I have no doubt she slept with him at the first opportunity.

This is in sharp contrast to my other relationships, where the girl and I would get to know each other a little bit, spend time together, THEN have sex.  I've had a one night stand before, and it was understood that is exactly what it was.  But seeing my ex jump into bed with someone immediately is startling, considering her body issues (overweight) and social insecurity.  She repeatedly told me I was the only person she felt comfortable around, yet here she was, sleeping with men immediately.  And, as you might expect, the guy's tongue was wagging after that, which is probably what she wanted.

When I would bring this up, she would call me "old fashioned" and said that most people have sex on the first date, and how it "isn't a big deal" to her.  This went against pretty much every other factor about her personality.  Which brings me to this topic - is this a BPD trait?  To use sex to snag a guy?  And use openness with sex to snag a guy?

I know people have sex on the first date.  I know people have sex frequently, but it always surprised me how my ex had no problem jumping into bed with a guy she had just met.  Thoughts?

[Mutt]

When I would bring this up, she would call me "old fashioned" and said that most people have sex on the first date, and how it "isn't a big deal" to her.  This went against pretty much every other factor about her personality.

She lacks personal boundaries and understanding boundaries of others. Did you detect this about her personality in your r/s? She called you old fashioned because she doesn't acknowledge your boundary, was projecting or both. Not a big deal telegraphs she doesn't have boundaries regarding sex on the first meeting. Saying most people have sex on their first date sounds like she's dissociating.

[tholian]

my ex udBPDgf did the same. Got very sexual with me, cheated on me, broke up with me without a single explanation, fooled around with the new replacement, broke off and went back to her ex before me. Last i heard, they broke off and not sure what she is doing now. So, sex for her is a mean to lure you in and keep you in check.

[4Years5Months]

Mutt, I was surprised at how open she was sexually, given that I was her first sexual partner of any kind.  It was interesting to me that she refused to even take her shirt off for the first few times, yet could hop into bed with someone else without a second thought.  I think you are onto something regarding boundaries.  She also developed feelings for any guy who wasn't repulsive who simply talked to her and showed an interest in her.  It's like her first thought is getting them into bed, which to be fair is what men think about most of the time when initially talking to a girl.  I mean, I do, but it doesn't mean I will attempt to do it.

She has no problem sleeping with someone, and no problem doing virtually anything in the bedroom.  For someone who isn't as experienced in that department, I was surprised she didn't have a boundary in that department.

She would always explain away any conflicting argument by saying it was normal behavior.  Perhaps, but for her, it definitely wasn't.

[Mutt]

I met my ex partner on an online dating site a decade ago. I had not met her face to face and we chatted for around a week, maybe two. I was working a late shift over a weekend and we were chatting and she invited me over to her house.

She was from out of town studying at a local college for a few months. I thought this is a strange proposition inviting someone you don't really know in a city to your home   I was curious so I headed over after work.

We spent a few hours talking, I had a few drinks and it was getting late and she invited me to stay over. Again, I thought it was odd, I could take a cab and I accepted the invitation and said I'll take the couch. She then said I could sleep in her bedroom and one thing led to another.

I think in my case it went both ways, we both lacked personal boundaries and it was a lesson for me with my boundaries. It would raise alarm bells and it's not something I would pursue today. How do I know if the person suffers a mental illness or not? Get to know the person and pursue intimacy later.

She may argue the case that it's normal behavior. It sounds like dissociation were she's altering reality to match her out of place feelings and it can be incredibly confusing when the logic is off. I can relate.

[Mister Brightside]

Which brings me to this topic - is this a BPD trait?  To use sex to snag a guy?  And use openness with sex to snag a guy?

I know people have sex on the first date.  I know people have sex frequently, but it always surprised me how my ex had no problem jumping into bed with a guy she had just met.  Thoughts?

It is definitely a BPD trait. I won't say one size fits all, as even they are different, but it's certainly a common trait. I'm not a psychologist, so I won't pretend to know why that is, but several reputable sources talk of those with BPD engaging in risky sexual behaviors. Part of it has to do with their being impulsive people, and I suppose it's also a way for them to feel alive.

I first met "my" BPD online. The first thing she ever texted me was a picture of her vagina. I didn't even ask for it. For the next couple of months before I met her in person, I received nude photos of her all the time, and she barely even knew me. Before I met her, she asked me what my boundaries in the bedroom were, claiming she had none, but was looking out for me (yeah, sure).

After I met her and she returned home, she begged to be in a relationship. I knew that it was pretty unhealthy, so I told her we would soon. In the back of my mind I hoped things would improve. In the mean time, an ex came back into her life, and she claimed to have kissed him to see who she loved more. She claimed it was a good thing for me. Not for long though. Soon they were having sex just like old times. And just like in old times, he was still a married man.

So yes, from what I have read, and in my personal experience, they get sexual very quickly and inappropriately. Even when they're a part of a religion that forbids sex before marriage, like mine and hers does.

[4Years5Months]

I met my BPDex through work friends at a night out, we briefly spoke, but she friended me on Facebook the next day, with several others.  We would trade comments on there for a few months, and I was taken with her wit and knowledge of culture.  She quit her job and went to go stay with a female friend she met on the internet for a few months (first time she met her in person was when she showed up at her apartment) because she couldn't stand living with her mother.     She and I began texting at that point in addition to Facebook, and the relationship developed.  When she finally came back home a month later, we were in love, and it was only the fourth time I had seen her in person.

Once it was determined that she was a virgin and I was okay with it, she made having sex a priority.  I can remember weeks afterward, she said she had a "finally!" attitude when we did it, finally losing her virginity.   

I've read about "reckless and impulsive sexual behavior" with BPDers, but I took it more as promiscuous and sleeping with MANY partners.  My ex only sleeps with men (myself included) that she then enters into a relationship with.  Although she told me she would have gone home with me the night she met me and would have slept with me.  I asked her how she could do that, and she once again said that sex "wasn't a big deal" to her.  She described her thought process like it was normal behavior, and would get a quizzical look on her face when I would suggest that maybe she shouldn't immediately jump into bed with guys.  She would then accuse me of being uptight and "this isn't the 1950's anymore!"

[Mutt]

Yes lacks impulse control and consequences of ones actions and reckless behavior. I know my ex was out of a r/s and fears being alone, lacks a stable sense of self. I think she was looking for an attachment. She may of felt shame and guilt when you called her on it and her accusations may illicit an emotional response of guilt or guilt in FOG.

[4Years5Months]

I should mention that my replacement was married as recently as January, so he is VERY recently separated from his wife.  I think it had nothing to do with my ex, but they certainly got together quickly afterward.  He is probably over the moon having someone who immediately slept with him.  What better way to find an attachment than to lay down for the guy immediately?  Just saying.  I just wish she would stop acting like it's "normal."

[Mutt]

Separation is very hard. It could be to sooth pain, anxiety, fear of not knowing if you'll meet someone else... .

[anxiety5]

This topic isn't about how initial sex with a BPDer is mind blowing as how quickly it happens.

My exBPDgf was a virgin before we started dating.  I was her first adult boyfriend.  She kept that on the down low for a bit.  Once that was established, she was ALL about having sex with me.  She was out of town for a while, but as soon as she returned, it was hot and heavy.  Not to go into detail, but she was VERY open sexually from the start, which surprised me given her inexperience.  She would never turn down an opportunity to do it, and craved me.  After a while, as it is with most BPD relationships, it went from being passionate to a requirement, and intimidating.

She broke up with me two years ago and a guy at college asked her out.  On the first date, SIX days after meeting him, and only having been around him in class (a couple of hours) she slept with him, and suddenly it was a serious relationship.  She recycled with me, but did the same thing last year with a guy she worked with.  She's currently seeing yet ANOTHER guy she works with, and I have no doubt she slept with him at the first opportunity.

This is in sharp contrast to my other relationships, where the girl and I would get to know each other a little bit, spend time together, THEN have sex.  I've had a one night stand before, and it was understood that is exactly what it was.  But seeing my ex jump into bed with someone immediately is startling, considering her body issues (overweight) and social insecurity.  She repeatedly told me I was the only person she felt comfortable around, yet here she was, sleeping with men immediately.  And, as you might expect, the guy's tongue was wagging after that, which is probably what she wanted.

When I would bring this up, she would call me "old fashioned" and said that most people have sex on the first date, and how it "isn't a big deal" to her.  This went against pretty much every other factor about her personality.  Which brings me to this topic - is this a BPD trait?  To use sex to snag a guy?  And use openness with sex to snag a guy?

I know people have sex on the first date.  I know people have sex frequently, but it always surprised me how my ex had no problem jumping into bed with a guy she had just met.  Thoughts?

Sex to them isn't what it is to us. That's why it can run hot/cold, and why infidelity is so common with them. You are talking about a condition where the disordered person has lost contact with who they are long ago because of trauma/chaos or abuse in their childhood. They are in perpetual survival mode. Without the ability to introspectively relate to their own self, they require external validation for any sense of identity. (hence mirroring) without a partner to harness energy or (supply) from, they are void of existence. Hollow, empty. It's imperative they have someone at all times so the means to manipulate (love bomb) into control becomes nothing more than a means to an end (getting you hooked) Sex is this means to an end. They are aware enough to understand that something occurs during sex that's emotional, creates bonding and causes the other person to attach. Plus it feels good. So it's the preferred method to capture (hook) a new source of supply.

You see, an empty person with no identity or ability to relate to their inner self, is dependent upon other people being around. The love bombing is to manipulate us into thinking they are the most perfect person ever, and our soulmate (so we fall hard) and the physical connection ensures (we fall hard fast) The act of mirroring is exhausting. They are manipulating us into presenting to you, your perfect person. It's all fake. The push to hook you, is so they can stop acting and start being their true self. And that is why the correlation always exists between the moment we become attached, and the moment the wheels begin falling off and they start running hot/cold.

Relationships with NPD and or BPD partners is like having a physical relationship with the female robot in Terminator 2. They are gorgeous, void of any emotion, and they have no ability to access an inner self or genuinely connect to another person. The closest they get is by studying what you like, what you are into, and what gets you hooked and pretending to be those things.

I know it sounds bitter. Cold. Harsh. But it's true. I've lived it. It was the most insane, chaotic, crazy relationship I've ever had. But I would not change it for the World. It is not possible for an emotionally healthy whole person to ever fall for their craziness, and if they do, they will run relatively soon and won't stay. The failure of these relationships is the moment of realization where we realize our own inner issues that have held us back during this relationship and probably for most of our lives. The emergence of a person on the other side of one of these relationships is the birth of the person you were meant to be but never were. Whole.

I'm infinitely wiser than I was 17 short months ago. I'm grateful. It happened for a reason.

[4Years5Months]

I just can't imagine my ex, with her BPD and other issues, putting herself in anything but a certain situation.  The other two replacements for me were young, naive college classmates who wept when she broke up with them.  This guy?  The security guard at her work who (as security guards do when nothing is going on) talked to her all day.  I'm sure there was something there, and his separation allowed him to finally do something about it, but still... .his wife was his high school sweetheart for a decade... .my ex putting herself in a situation with someone like that is startling.  It's also startling that she would be with him given how she devalued him repeatedly (and I believe honestly) to me for months.  Which is why I think immediate sex was necessary for her to reel him in.

[apollotech]

Hello 4Years,


"It's like her first thought is getting them into bed, which to be fair is what men think about most of the time when initially talking to a girl."

^^^^^^^The first thing I want to do is call a foul on that BS that you're propagating about men.


"She also developed feelings for any guy who wasn't repulsive who talked to her and showed an interest in her."

"She has no problem sleeping with someone, and [she has] no problem doing virtually anything in the bedroom."

Is the above quoted material a boundry issue or simply a lack of impulse control due to BPD? I am thinking that it's the latter. Yes, there are no boundaries, but the action statements, in italics, are on her, not someone breeching a boundary.

[anxiety5]

I just can't imagine my ex, with her BPD and other issues, putting herself in anything but a certain situation.  The other two replacements for me were young, naive college classmates who wept when she broke up with them.  This guy?  The security guard at her work who (as security guards do when nothing is going on) talked to her all day.  I'm sure there was something there, and his separation allowed him to finally do something about it, but still... .his wife was his high school sweetheart for a decade... .my ex putting herself in a situation with someone like that is startling.  It's also startling that she would be with him given how she devalued him repeatedly (and I believe honestly) to me for months.  Which is why I think immediate sex was necessary for her to reel him in.

Sex to a BPD/NPD is equivalent to you or I being desperately thirsty, wanting a gatorade, but settling for tap water. It's not about anything other than having their immediate gratification met. It has nothing to do with the other person's status or anything they said about them previously. If they are empty and in a fight with you, and someone pays attention to them, they will screw them in the parking lot and you'll never know it.

You can't live in denial. Nothing should be "startling" to you. That's projection on your part. You are probably a normal person, capable of normal emotions, and have a conscience. You are dealing with someone who has none of the above. Or if so, heavily impaired. Therefore, you can not apply YOUR logic or YOUR emotions to such an individual and conclude it's shocking.

My ex is college educated, has a job making well over 6 figures, she is considerately gorgeous. I mean drop dead, but not slutty in anyway. She has a young son, lives in a beautiful home and when I met her was a sad empty person just trying to get by after a divorce. She was the girl next door. She told me she had only been with a few guys in her life, even went through all her relationships when we were sharing information and having a long talk one night. She is the chairperson of her companies philanthropy program. She is involved in her son's aftercare program as a parental adviser to the school and staff.

And guess what? She told me she was tired one night about 4 months in, and I found out she got drunk, drove out across town and had sex with a 23 year old (more than a decade younger) newbie from her company in the backseat of her car. And I highly doubt that was the only time it happened.

In one night, she drove drunk, (could have lost custody of kid, lost job, or DIED) she cheated on me (destroyed our relationship) she had sex with a person on her team (she would immediately be fired if they knew that) and if she were fired she'd lose her house and probably custody of her kid. And she lied to my face about all of it, until I presented evidence she could not deny.

You have no idea how secretive, shady, deceitful, self centered, cold, callous, demented, impulsive, risqué, and crazy these people can be. The envelope is always pushed. It's not worth sticking around for.

[Mutt]

"She has no problem sleeping with someone, and [she has] no problem doing virtually anything in the bedroom."

Is the above quoted material a boundry issue or simply a lack of impulse control due to BPD? I am thinking that it's the latter. Yes, there are no boundaries, but the action statements, in italics, are on her, not someone breeching a boundary.

I'm not sure I understand the logic with the action statement. She lacks impulse control and it's on her if she sleeps with someone due to said lack of impulse control?

Apologies in advance if I have that wrong.

[apollotech]

"She has no problem sleeping with someone, and [she has] no problem doing virtually anything in the bedroom."

Is the above quoted material a boundry issue or simply a lack of impulse control due to BPD? I am thinking that it's the latter. Yes, there are no boundaries, but the action statements, in italics, are on her, not someone breeching a boundary.

I'm not sure I understand the logic with the action statement. She lacks impulse control and it's on her if she sleeps with someone due to said lack of impulse control?

Apologies in advance if I have that wrong.

Hi Mutt,

This is my read on it: she is iniating all the action; she is the active party. Yes, her total lack of impulse control is driving all of the actions. An example of this is her consorting with every man that speaks to her. Even if she had boundaries, due to said lack of impulse control, she'd be breaking her own boundaries. Does that make better sense? Her having personal boundaries, such as a boundary forbidding her from quickly jumping in bed with a man she just met, is a moot point because she cannot overcome her lack of impulse control.

[Mutt]

I understand. I'm looking at it as a two way transaction and not one. It takes two.

Irregardless if the other party lacks boundaries or impulse control, I think I have choices and boundaries, control of impulses, judgement and following intuition as well. My ex partner telegraphed her lack of boundaries and I made a bad call by ignoring my intuition, lack of boundaries and acting impulsively and she happened to have a serious mental illness. I'm wiser now.

I think we have choices despite someone else's compartments. The thread title states draw you in. I don't believe I was drawn into something without having my own role. There are exceptions, if it's not consensual or forced and that's not the topic of discussion at hand.

[Blimblam]

This topic isn't about how initial sex with a BPDer is mind blowing as how quickly it happens.

My exBPDgf was a virgin before we started dating.  I was her first adult boyfriend.  She kept that on the down low for a bit.  Once that was established, she was ALL about having sex with me.  She was out of town for a while, but as soon as she returned, it was hot and heavy.  Not to go into detail, but she was VERY open sexually from the start, which surprised me given her inexperience.  She would never turn down an opportunity to do it, and craved me.  After a while, as it is with most BPD relationships, it went from being passionate to a requirement, and intimidating.

She broke up with me two years ago and a guy at college asked her out.  On the first date, SIX days after meeting him, and only having been around him in class (a couple of hours) she slept with him, and suddenly it was a serious relationship.  She recycled with me, but did the same thing last year with a guy she worked with.  She's currently seeing yet ANOTHER guy she works with, and I have no doubt she slept with him at the first opportunity.

This is in sharp contrast to my other relationships, where the girl and I would get to know each other a little bit, spend time together, THEN have sex.  I've had a one night stand before, and it was understood that is exactly what it was.  But seeing my ex jump into bed with someone immediately is startling, considering her body issues (overweight) and social insecurity.  She repeatedly told me I was the only person she felt comfortable around, yet here she was, sleeping with men immediately.  And, as you might expect, the guy's tongue was wagging after that, which is probably what she wanted.

When I would bring this up, she would call me "old fashioned" and said that most people have sex on the first date, and how it "isn't a big deal" to her.  This went against pretty much every other factor about her personality.  Which brings me to this topic - is this a BPD trait?  To use sex to snag a guy?  And use openness with sex to snag a guy?

I know people have sex on the first date.  I know people have sex frequently, but it always surprised me how my ex had no problem jumping into bed with a guy she had just met.  Thoughts?

Sex to them isn't what it is to us. That's why it can run hot/cold, and why infidelity is so common with them. You are talking about a condition where the disordered person has lost contact with who they are long ago because of trauma/chaos or abuse in their childhood. They are in perpetual survival mode. Without the ability to introspectively relate to their own self, they require external validation for any sense of identity. (hence mirroring) without a partner to harness energy or (supply) from, they are void of existence. Hollow, empty. It's imperative they have someone at all times so the means to manipulate (love bomb) into control becomes nothing more than a means to an end (getting you hooked) Sex is this means to an end. They are aware enough to understand that something occurs during sex that's emotional, creates bonding and causes the other person to attach. Plus it feels good. So it's the preferred method to capture (hook) a new source of supply.

You see, an empty person with no identity or ability to relate to their inner self, is dependent upon other people being around. The love bombing is to manipulate us into thinking they are the most perfect person ever, and our soulmate (so we fall hard) and the physical connection ensures (we fall hard fast) The act of mirroring is exhausting. They are manipulating us into presenting to you, your perfect person. It's all fake. The push to hook you, is so they can stop acting and start being their true self. And that is why the correlation always exists between the moment we become attached, and the moment the wheels begin falling off and they start running hot/cold.

Relationships with NPD and or BPD partners is like having a physical relationship with the female robot in Terminator 2. They are gorgeous, void of any emotion, and they have no ability to access an inner self or genuinely connect to another person. The closest they get is by studying what you like, what you are into, and what gets you hooked and pretending to be those things.

I know it sounds bitter. Cold. Harsh. But it's true. I've lived it. It was the most insane, chaotic, crazy relationship I've ever had. But I would not change it for the World. It is not possible for an emotionally healthy whole person to ever fall for their craziness, and if they do, they will run relatively soon and won't stay. The failure of these relationships is the moment of realization where we realize our own inner issues that have held us back during this relationship and probably for most of our lives. The emergence of a person on the other side of one of these relationships is the birth of the person you were meant to be but never were. Whole.

I'm infinitely wiser than I was 17 short months ago. I'm grateful. It happened for a reason.

Anxiety it is not necessarily a big planned manipulation.  A part. Of them actually believes in it they are looking to be rescued from their inner pain.  On top of that pwBPD are impulsive and it feels good, the flood of oxytocin also helps them form the attachment as well. It depends on the pwBPDs needs at the time.  Their is a difference between mirroring and idealizing someone when they idealize somone they believe it and they are infatuated and it's real for them. 

[Infared]

I think that there is a 2-fold dynamic for the initial sex play with a pwBPD.

Dynamic One is the promiscuity, addiction And exciting risk of said activity.

Dynamic Two is the the tool for capturing their much need prey to satisfy their abandonment issues.

I think that number 2 is the more powerful part of the 2 dynamics... .but it's all mixed in there.

I also think that these "needs" are present in any budding relationship. Totally normal human stuff.  ... but maybe with PD individuals the two dynamics are very magnified and the need is great in a very unhealthy way.

Sex is also a seductive power&control tool to seal the deal immediately as the need is great.

Just guessing here though... .I am no psychologist.

I think that I experienced this with my ex... .but I did not know at the time what was actually going on with her... .I was so love-bombed I was delirious !  

[4Years5Months]

If we're talking about boundaries and impulse control -

My ex was always open and honest with me about her behavior.  A lot of times she would acknowledge that it was incorrect - such as developing feelings for men at work she should see as platonic - but other than acknowledging she "needed to work" on her issues, she did very little.  It should come as no surprise that she said all of this to me last October after sleeping with a co-worker (she DID break up with me first, but had him lined up) and immediately regretting it.  She love bombed me back into the relationship, and only THEN did she break it off with the co-worker, when I was securely back in her grasp.  Her relationships always overlapped.

In 2013, she broke up with me, but remained friendly for a couple of months, until the aforementioned college kid asked her out one day.  As a reminder, this was SIX days after meeting him, and after only being around him a few hours in class.  They went out to dinner, then back to his apartment.  He asked her to come in, and she did.  They made out on the couch, and then it was evident that it was time for sex.  My ex claimed to me that at this point, she and him had a "long" conversation about it, and THEN made the decision to do it.  When she recounted this story to me later, she said she wasn't planning on having sex with him that night.  I then said "Then why did you go into his apartment?"  She replied, "I thought we were going to hang out, drink (they had gone to a liquor store) and then I would go home!"  I said, "I don't think you are that dumb."  She had no response. 

She could have left after dinner.  She could have refused to go up to his apartment.  She could have said no to sex.  But she didn't.  No boundaries, am I right?  It's like she was thinking, "If I say no to him, he won't call me tomorrow."  I told that to my ex, and she became defiant, "He was very into me at the start!"  Sure he was.  You were doing everything he wanted.  Funny thing is, when he finally told her he loved her a month and a half later, she began to detach from him and broke it off a week later.  But I was back in the picture at that point (remember the overlap).

Later on, she admitted, ":)id I know he was looking to get laid that first night?  Sure.  And obviously I was okay with it, and I would do it again in the future!"  I should mention that quote happened during an argument between us, obviously.

Her inability to be platonic friends with men is perhaps her biggest lack of boundaries.  The sex is like a tool she uses to enhance this bad behavior.

Last fall, she dumped me and briefly dated a co-worker that she started off calling a "great friend" that I was keeping her from hanging out with - because I saw the platonic friendship developing into something more, as usual with her.  I went NC, and within a week they went to go see a friend of hers out of state for a weekend, and slept together.  Unlike college guy, she acted as if it was a terrible mistake, and love bombed me back in.  I asked her how she could have done it with him, and she replied, "It just happened one night.  I think I felt bad because he had been paying for everything (now we know why she took him, don't we?) and sex was like a consolation."  She said she made the first move and it lasted two minutes, and she cried the next day thinking about me.  And when she contacted me and I didn't hate her (my mistake) she had no problem discarding him.

And here we are, once again broken up, and there she is, once again dating another naive co-worker that she has simply talked to for months and developed feelings for.  A co-worker who recently split from his wife.  Her Facebook shows a happy couple in love.  I can only imagine what is actually happening.

I'm certainly not some old fashioned curmudgeon when it comes to sex in relationships.  But if a woman goes on a date with me, I'm not expecting her to come back home with me that first night and do it.  That would set off a major  for me.  But for the guys my ex has been with (other than me) they are probably over the moon.  And is that the way she wants it?  I told her two years ago about the college guy, "You'll never know if he is with you for you, or for the sex, because there was no opportunity to see that."

[apollotech]

I understand. I'm looking at it as a two way transaction and not one. It takes two.

Irregardless if the other party lacks boundaries or impulse control, I think I have choices and boundaries, control of impulses, judgement and following intuition as well. My ex partner telegraphed her lack of boundaries and I made a bad call by ignoring my intuition, lack of boundaries and acting impulsively and she happened to have a serious mental illness. I'm wiser now.

I think we have choices despite someone else's compartments. The thread title states draw you in. I don't believe I was drawn into something without having my own role. There are exceptions, if it's not consensual or forced and that's not the topic of discussion at hand.

Hi Mutt,

I am massively confused. I was simply saying that 4Years' exSO's behavior doesn't appear to me to be due to a lack of boundaries on her part; her behavior appears to me to be due to her total lack of impulse control. Whether or not the guy she approached had boundaries or not makes no difference, she is iniating a promiscuous act. That act is due to her lack of impulse control. I was certainly not saying that men are too weak to turn down a woman's advance.The thread topic is "using sex immediately to draw you in." Formed as a question it is do they use sex immediately to draw you in? The answer is yes.

[apollotech]

"My ex was always open and honest with me about her behavior.  A lot of times she would acknowledge that it was incorrect - such as developing feelings for men at work she should see as platonic - but other than acknowledging she "needed to work" on her issues, she did very little."

4Years,

She got just what she needed by doing this: she was honest with you about her inappropriate behavior; therefore, she isn't guilty of said inappropriate behavior. It is a total manipulation/gaming of your trust in/of her. And, as you said, she never followed up with attempting to change said inappropriate behavior. Because of her honesty (said sarcastically) she wasn't guilty.

[JPH]

My ex-BPD girlfriend and the girl who I briefly dated recently were both hyper sexual and initiated sex pretty quickly. And they both bragged about their sexual prowess. Great sex but not worth the headaches. I'd rather be alone.

[apollotech]

"In 2013, she broke up with me, but remained friendly for a couple of months, until the aforementioned college kid asked her out one day.  As a reminder, this was SIX days after meeting him, and after only being around him a few hours in class.  They went out to dinner, then back to his apartment.  He asked her to come in, and she did.  They made out on the couch, and then it was evident that it was time for sex.  My ex claimed to me that at this point, she and him had a "long" conversation about it, and THEN made the decision to do it.  When she recounted this story to me later, she said she wasn't planning on having sex with him that night.  I then said "Then why did you go into his apartment?"  She replied, "I thought we were going to hang out, drink (they had gone to a liquor store) and then I would go home!"  I said, "I don't think you are that dumb."  She had no response.  

She could have left after dinner.  She could have refused to go up to his apartment.  She could have said no to sex.  But she didn't.  No boundaries, am I right?"

4Years,

Get off the "boundaries" concept. Her behavior has nothing to do with her lack/absence of personal boundaries. Lack of boundaries is not a diagnostic criterion of BPD. In general, healthy people (as compared to people with a personality disorder) have and enforce boundaries; unhealthy people (people with a personality disorder) in general, do not have nor enforce boundaries. She was going to sleep with that guy before they ever went to the liquor store. She was simply fulfilling her own selfish BPD needs. When you pressed her on her behavior and/or excuse(s), "she had no response."

[raisins3142]

Yes, they want attachment very badly and know that they can establish one pretty quickly if they have sex early, often, and vigorously.  They have such low self worth and honest difficulties in relationships that they feel sex is one of the few things they have to offer someone.

Something like this has been posted here by so many people that it is not even a thing up for discussion, in my opinion.

It is mostly discussed in relation to females given typical heterosexual dynamics.

[Turkish]

Though this is a topic where differences in values between members may be evident, please adhere to the board guidelines and keep the discussion collegial:

Guideline: Discussion Format

3.0 DISCUSSION FORMAT

bpdfamily/bpdfamily.com is set up as a collegium. We follow a Collegial Discussion format which is characterized as having "authority" vested equally among colleagues/peers. As such, members present their ideas in "collegial harmony" and the credibility of their positions are based solely on the quality of the points they advance in writing. Diversity is to be embraced - there is often much to be learned from others views and perspectives.

Please note that collegial discussion is different than debate. Debate is an argument or a discussion generally ending with a vote or agreement on the best decision. In debate, unity is the objective. Members are discouraged from debating and arguing against others' positions, questioning the wisdom of others, or restating of their position repeatedly.

[4Years5Months]

apollo, I do appreciate the feedback, even if it was a bit direct.

I know she was planned to sleep with that college guy if he had offered, which he did.  It was her trying to tell me that no, she didn't plan to do that, which pissed me off, because she rarely flat out lied like that. 

Which leads me to your other point - that she no longer was "guilty" of her behavior because she was honest with me.  I know there is a lot of sarcasm in that statement, but I do believe that was her thought process.  That if she admitted her faults, then she was absolved.  She did promise to not do those things in the future, but of course, she did, and is doing them yet again with my most recent replacement.  But I think that was her BPD - she could talk and talk about her misgivings, but that's it.  To dig deeper, to actually work on herself, would be a terrible pain.  I DO think she felt incredibly guilty.  She sobbed hysterically as she told me all of those things, that she hated herself, and I should hate her too.  I then forgave her - bad choice on my part - and she was in love bombing mode for a month or so, as if she had been given a second chance.  Then she settled back into the same behaviors.

Raisins, your post really hit home for me.  Everyone's feedback has been appreciated, but you're right - offering sex immediately is something almost anyone can do.  It masks their feelings of low self worth - if he can sleep with me, at least that's SOMETHING.

[raisins3142]

I have a feeling what I wrote was taken the wrong way.

"Not up for discussion" in that context meant "it seems very obvious after reading here a bit that this is common".

I apologize for my poor wording of my thought and if anyone took offense.

[apollotech]

4Years,

I wasn't trying to be direct to be hurtful. I was trying to be direct to remove confusion over what I was trying to say. Mutt and I got bogged down regarding our respective boundary discussions. I was trying to clarify my position/thoughts on the matter that you posed by reducing it to the barest facts, remove the muddiness.

I think you have reason to be sarcastic in regards to the honesty/guilt equation. Trust between two people is a terrible thing to be "gamed." I have been in your shoes over the exact same matter and was treated to the exact same BPD logic----as long as I am honest about it, it is okay to do it.

[4Years5Months]

No offense taken from either of you.  I'm fine with healthy discussion, which this is.

Apollo, may I add - "As long as I am honest about it and he forgives me, it's okay to do it again."  My mistake was not casting her out of my life when she did it.  And wouldn't you know it, she did it to me again.  And yes, she will likely do it again to other guys, but I never told her with my actions that it wasn't okay.  I'm not sure that it would have had a different effect, but I'm kicking myself now, months later.  I was a sucker for believing that she honestly wanted to change.  I believe she felt terrible, but I was wrong to think she had the strength to stop her awful behavior.

Raisins, hearing that this is common (immediate sex) helps me process it.  My ex appeared to have strong values - she didn't seem like the type who would do that.  To see her jump into bed with other men, despite all of her physical and emotional insecurities, was startling.  I'm now starting to see that it was the only thing she could emotionally offer a new guy.