Loss is Loss is Loss?

[DyingLove]

Many feel terrible about their breakup and have feelings of despair and are crazed at whether they can get over all this.  Some are not at "shaken up" about the whole mess as much.

Either way, hypothetically, if your exBPD partner (male or female), that has made your life miserable for days, weeks, months or years were to "pass away" (die) on the spot (now), do you think it would be easier to get over everything, after the initial shock/grief of knowing that they passed.

I'm asking because this "whole" thing we go thru is a "loss"... .but I've never heard anyone put it in terms of death.  Maybe if we did, it would pass faster and we would feel like "what the heck could we do now?" attitude, which is kind of senseless.

You can tell, I'm still trying to find the method that works at Light Speed to get this out of my system. I know how I feel about nearly every relationship in my life that has ended, some I had no feeling or remorse, and some were extremely painful, and one had no closure.  But this relationship (with exBPDgf) is by far the most painful and causing me the most obsession and grief of any relationship I've ever had.  If it weren't for these forums, I think I would go out of my mind.  My son got really pissed off at me today... .he says everytime he turns around I'm writing or reading here.  He's right... .absolutely right... .but I don't feel that confident about being away from all the support I receive here. He can't comprehend all that I and others go thru.  Can't afford therapy, have no insurance... .so here I am, like others, for support from our peers.  Thank you all for being here.

[leftconfused]

I was actually thinking about this the other day.  Yes, I definitely think it would be easier for me to get over if my ex passed away.  At least you know then its final.  There would be no worrying and wondering what he is doing, who he is with, if there was something I could have done differently etc.  And now that Im moving more towards acceptance and wanting it to be over I now worry about stalking.  He tends to panic if he thinks Im really done this time.  So yes, death would be much easier!

[Mutt]

I'm asking because this "whole" thing we go thru is a "loss"... .

I'd like to add trauma.

My ex suddenly ended our marriage and embarked another r/s.

She didn't take into account due to lack of impulse, consequences of one's actions, black and white thinking; the collateral damage and effects on 5 others in our family.

One day the kids and I are home. The following day she's moved out with the kids and another man living with my kids.

I think I went through trauma and loss. I get triggered around certain events and anniversaries two years later.

[DyingLove]

I was actually thinking about this the other day.  Yes, I definitely think it would be easier for me to get over if my ex passed away.  At least you know then its final.  There would be no worrying and wondering what he is doing, who he is with, if there was something I could have done differently etc.  And now that Im moving more towards acceptance and wanting it to be over I now worry about stalking.  He tends to panic if he thinks Im really done this time.  So yes, death would be much easier!

In a sense, the whole thing, even how I put it may sound cruel.  But I would like it to be over and done also.  I hate to think that she might be doing with someone as easily as she got with me.  I cringe at the thought... .  Thanks leftconfused. (I'm certainly left MORE THAN confused!)

[DyingLove]

I'm asking because this "whole" thing we go thru is a "loss"... .

I'd like to add trauma.

My ex suddenly ended our marriage and embarked another r/s.

She didn't take into account due to lack of impulse, consequences of one's actions, black and white thinking; the collateral damage and effects on 5 others in our family.

One day the kids and I are home. The following day she's moved out with the kids and another man living with my kids.

I think I went through trauma and loss. I get triggered around certain events and anniversaries two years later.

Trauma. Good word.  I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes.  I could get kinda "insane" on someones butt.  Oh I know it's not going to do anything for me but get me orange overalls... .but in the heat of it all... .ya never know.  How old were the children at the time Mutt?  And by the way... .I'm sorry you had to go thru that... .I'm even sorry you had to bring it up... .it probably didn't help to thing of it... .or did it?

[Mister Brightside]

Either way, hypothetically, if your exBPD partner (male or female), that has made your life miserable for days, weeks, months or years were to "pass away" (die) on the spot (now), do you think it would be easier to get over everything, after the initial shock/grief of knowing that they passed.

I'm asking because this "whole" thing we go thru is a "loss"... .but I've never heard anyone put it in terms of death.  Maybe if we did, it would pass faster and we would feel like "what the heck could we do now?" attitude, which is kind of senseless.

I would definitely feel a lot more relieved, as Satanic as it sounds. Her death would be no contact on steroids. Not only would there be no chance I'd ever talk to or see her again, but I'd know that she could no longer ruin anyone's life again. I fear a little for her though. I am a religious person (she is in word, but not in actions), and has committed some pretty serious sins, so if she were to drop dead now without repentance, I'd actually fear for her. But will she ever get better anyway? How many more people will she torment with her crazy making?

My son got really pissed off at me today... .he says everytime he turns around I'm writing or reading here.  He's right... .absolutely right... .but I don't feel that confident about being away from all the support I receive here. He can't comprehend all that I and others go thru.  

I was thinking about my usage of this web site, this morning. Sometimes I think I come here when I'm feeling somewhat okay, and coming here hurts me because it gets me sad and/or angry. But when I'm at my darkest times, I think it's a helpful place to vent. I do like this thread because it offers up thoughts of how we can get over what we're going through rather than replaying hurtful memories in our minds.

Can't afford therapy, have no insurance... .so here I am, like others, for support from our peers.  Thank you all for being here.

I'm glad this web site helps you in place of a therapist. I've been going to one for the past several weeks and honestly don't feel like it has done me much good. Maybe I need a new one who understands cluster B's better (I'm making a change in May to a new therapist), but I can say that therapist or no therapist, it definitely takes a long time to get over these types of relationships. Separating the idealization stage from the devaluation and discard stages is extremely difficult to do. Then the guilt of ignoring red flags sets in too.

[Mutt]

How old were the children at the time Mutt?  And by the way... .I'm sorry you had to go thru that... .I'm even sorry you had to bring it up... .it probably didn't help to thing of it... .or did it?

I was pretty angry at the time. My kids at the time S1, S5, D7.

I like Jim Morrison's quote about love, pain, and feelings.

Carry it like a radio, don't be afraid to feel, feel the strength of the experience.

I like the analogy DyingLove and I think it helps me. The experience certainly woke me up.

Partial quote.

Feelings are disturbing. People are taught that pain is evil and dangerous. How can they deal with love if they're afraid to feel? Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters.

[Infared]

I mentioned this exact same thing in a thread the other day. I want to clearly state that I wish my ex no ill will and do not want her to be dead. ... .although there is no power that could ever make me have any contact of any kind with her for the remainder of my time on this planet. The amount of emotional pain she caused me with her words and actions would not allow me to ever be still in her presence ever again. I would be doing anything that I possibly could to move away from her, no matter the consequence. I do not willingly offer myself up for her abuse ever again.

That being said... .yes, if she had died it would have been so, so much easier to deal with the loss of someone that I felt so close to and shared so much with. I just do not want to re-live any of her behavior tonight... .but suffice to say, my life would have been much, much different if she had died at the end of our relationship and I grieved that loss of her death. Most definitely. That is not exactly what is being asked here though... .

If she died "now" It would not change anything for me... what has been done is done... .oh, I wish I could rewrite that script... .but her death now would give me no comfort that I can imagine. Perhaps I am mistaken about that, but since I have made the decision to never have her in my life again... .the fact that she is alive or dead does not change my decision... .so it's live and let live for me... .just not anywhere near me!  

[rlhmm]

i think most, if not all of us, have pondered this notion, myself included. i certainly don't wish this as well. truth is, it would make it easier on most of our minds. it really is over. there is no chance of seeing them ever again. the finality of their death would allow us to close that chapter once and for evermore.  i have thought: what if i hadn't taken her out of her car that day when i found her after her suicide attempt? she would have surely died and i would have to live with the fact that i let her. no... .i couldn't live with that... .noo way. 

[Sunfl0wer]

I think if he were to die.  I would grieve differently. 

I would allow myself  several weeks off of work to grieve.  I would be kind to myself about my own grief.

I would not feel shameful to the outside world about it.

I would feel more forlorn than I feel tortured inside.

I would not be faced with questioning my interpersonal skills, myself, and who I am.  Well, actually, I would question who I am, but it would be more 2 dimensional, and not so complicated.

I would have a partial closure, as the coffin enters the ground, and I partake in a ceremony, where others gather, share my grief, and their grief together as we have an understanding, a deeper connection and a bond through this event.

People may bring me frozen meals and check in on me, instead of my current isolation.

I would take a caretaker role to others also grieving, and in doing so remove myself from my self pity for a bit.

I would spend time preparing memories and pictures to share with everyone, and honor our time together for all to see the depth of our lives together.  As I showcase our best memories instead of ruminate over our failures.

I would cover my scars and pain with the slight warmth of inflated positive memories as it would be rude to speak badly about him at this time, as that is considered offensive. (Possibly feeling a bit invalidated)

I wonder how/if would that allow me to face my truth?

[DyingLove]

I never thought I would get such beautiful responses in this thread.  I pray for my ex. It's the right thing to do for me, and for God.  I fear any accidental "wishing" of a demise, for fear it will reflect back to me.  Call me God fearing in that sense.  But in my prayers, I let it be clearly known to God that his wishes, his say, is what I will always accept, but if it were to happen, I would not be that distraught over it.  I'm honest.  Same goes for her brother who in my opinion is one of the biggest factors in her breakup with me as well as her codependency involving him.  I'm learning how to sit back and watch the "movie" and take what drama and excitement comes!  You never know when you will get that message or see a post on facebook about who unexpectedly "passed" or came up with a life threatening condition. It might be me too, and I fully accept what the Lord has ready for me... .but I think he has some type of greatness coming my way, and I pray to him that I'm right about that.  I think if my ex bit the dust... .I would cry and grieve like the dickens... .but I'd be able to move on quicker... .I remember when my Mom was on her "last days",, She unexpectedly went into a coma, which left me kinda the way I grieve with the ex... .then she passed away... .all the emotions in me broke loose and I cried for days and days... .and then I began healing.  Today I think of her, but not the same "grieving" way.  I was relieved that she passed... .her suffering if any AND MY SUFFERING were over.  Does this make sense to anyone?  We gotta be honest in our hearts.

[Lifewriter16]

Sunflower,

Your post is so poetic. So powerful, so very perceptive. It's given me goosebumps.

[Pingo]

I also like what Sunflower said, this is so true, if they died we would receive support for our grief. People would try to understand and wouldn't be scratching their heads at why it is taking us so long to 'get over it'.  There wouldn't be so much pressure from others to move on. And death in itself would be closure.

DyingLove, there was a thread many months back about pretending they did die in order to find closure. This helped me. I did some symbolic things to release the r/s. Sort of like a funeral I guess.  I shredded cards and letters. I went out and bought the things he took of mine and refused to return. I wrote a lot in my journal about the good and the bad of the r/s. And I went strict NC with him. Maybe it was radical acceptance on my part, that it was indeed over and he was no longer 'alive' in my heart.

In those early months after our BU I was on this forum constantly! It helped! I did worry that maybe I was using it as a crutch. And perhaps I did but isn't that what a support forum is for? To support you until you don't need it anymore? I eventually weaned myself from it naturally. It wasn't forced. I still come on here almost everyday but I don't feel so much need anymore. I figure I'll stop coming here when I stop getting something out of it.

Try to be gentle with yourself, allow yourself the support of the forum for as long as you need it and give yourself some tender loving care. You can validate your own grief by being nurturing to yourself.

[DyingLove]

I also like what Sunflower said, this is so true, if they died we would receive support for our grief. People would try to understand and wouldn't be scratching their heads at why it is taking us so long to 'get over it'.  There wouldn't be so much pressure from others to move on. And death in itself would be closure.

DyingLove, there was a thread many months back about pretending they did die in order to find closure. This helped me. I did some symbolic things to release the r/s. Sort of like a funeral I guess.  I shredded cards and letters. I went out and bought the things he took of mine and refused to return. I wrote a lot in my journal about the good and the bad of the r/s. And I went strict NC with him. Maybe it was radical acceptance on my part, that it was indeed over and he was no longer 'alive' in my heart.

In those early months after our BU I was on this forum constantly! It helped! I did worry that maybe I was using it as a crutch. And perhaps I did but isn't that what a support forum is for? To support you until you don't need it anymore? I eventually weaned myself from it naturally. It wasn't forced. I still come on here almost everyday but I don't feel so much need anymore. I figure I'll stop coming here when I stop getting something out of it.

Try to be gentle with yourself, allow yourself the support of the forum for as long as you need it and give yourself some tender loving care. You can validate your own grief by being nurturing to yourself.

Good words Pingo.  I was afraid that I might get addicted to the forums, but I realize that I need them and all the members right now.

[zundertowz]

It definatly would be easier not picturing her with someone else during the honeymoon stage and being on the list of abusive ex partners, but I try and keep in mind her children and what an awful thing that would be for them.

[Popcorn71]

I have read this thread with interest because it is something I have thought about often.

When I was still with my ex and we were going through a bad time, I used to wonder what it would be like if he died.  I didn't exactly wish for it, but I did think that it would not be too bad and that I would get over it.  As he was quite a bit older than me, I fully expected to become a widow at some point and I used to think about what that would be like and even to some extent, daydream about how my life would be then.

Perhaps, subconsciously, I knew he wasn't good for me and was pondering on what life would be like if we weren't together?

One thing I have often thought is that if he had died, I would have grieved but would have had good memories.  He has taken that from me now.  All the memories I have of him are tainted with disgust and I will always question what was 'true' and what was part of his act.

If he were to die now, I think it would be a relief for me.  I could finally relax and not be constantly on the look out for him.  He lives locally and I never know when I will drive past him or see him in a bar or shop.  I also have to see the replacement around a lot.  If he was gone then she would no doubt go back where she came from and I wouldn't keep bumping into her either.  This would be great because every time I see them, it starts me thinking about the past and I would like to forget it now.

[DyingLove]

Well said Popcorn71. So it's almost unanimous... ."rub them out!".  I guess that was insensitive... .but notice I still wrote it! ;-) 

It is weird, because I read so much about them being liars... .My ex prided herself on NOT lying, and for the most part I don't think I could really or did really catch her in a lie.  Maybe if she was talking about something I had no clue or prior knowledge of, she might have twisted things to suit her aspect of her own reality.  Even until the end, she ALWAYS feared reprocussions from the govt. if she made a mistake on a tax return or did something that might have technically broke the law.  For instance... .when in Fl.  I bought a shotgun in Walmart.  I didn't have a state ID or license so I couldn't get it.  So she purchased it, but I paid for it (540)... .at the time of breakup, it went into its box and she brought it to her fathers house.  She proclaimed that "She could technically got to prison for that!"  I never even fired it!  But everything with her was GOODY TWO SHOES.  Now exactly how does this fit into the scheme of things?  It's thinking like this that makes ME THINK that maybe I was wrong about her!  But then again... .almost all the OTHER red flags went up... .Long distance relationship, mirroring me and idealization, warning me that she has a habit of pushing people away from her, monopolizing all of my time until I stopped taking care of ME and denied myself of my goals and happiness... .the round and round arguments and conversations... .the fact that she would latch onto something I did and use it against me forever... .the fact that her 9yo daughter has problems up the wazoo!  The initial sex and how she displayed herself without any shame or question.  The fact that she could not accept any gifts or compliments without having to immediately redirect the kindness towards someone else... .the fact that at the end, she was an unreasonable cruel and heartless bit*h.  And the list of "YESES" goes on.  And then I think of possibly ONE STINKIN' THING that makes me say:  Was it me?  Even to this day, there is N/C and she has NOT broken the contact either.  I told her at one point... .when I'm gone I'm GONE and you won't be hearing from me.

She pushed me into a corner many time MANY MANY MANY.  I lashed out at times... .mainly with threats of leaving (to save my life) and she held those threats tightly.  One other incident involved her brother... .a lousy specimen.  We started off talking about something that flared into an argument... .involving how she stands by her brother regardless of anything he does, and she was the first to admit he was a jerk... .so in the heat of the argument I lashed out with some comment like: "did you sleep with him too?"... .3 minutes later she was on the phone with him telling him the line I ran past her.  If you were there, you'd understand how it was interjected into the argument.  But someone just smearing you for it... .well it didn't go over well.  This is the same piece of work that dared to call me a piece of Sh*t on FB in one of my posts before any of us physically me.  To be more exact he stated that:  "We don't know, he could be a piece of **** for all we know... ." But for Gods sake, he said it in a post that I was talking in.  And it goes on.  She NEVER stood by me thru anything... .but when she needed someone... .Ahole ME was always there!

[leftconfused]

I wonder how/if would that allow me to face my truth?

Great post Sunflower!  All so very true, but the last line hit me the hardest.  You are right, I don't think it would allow us to fully heal ourselves and face our own issues as we are forced to do now.  Great insight!

[Sunfl0wer]

This is such a great place! I am so grateful!

Today was the worse for me so far... .

While I do not wish my ex dead at all, today I surely wanted to kill my grief.  That is only because it felt like Grief wanted me dead. 

I think we all just want relief, sometimes.  Sometimes, by any means possible.

I did my best to listen to my grief today.  Hopefully my grief feels validated enough from today, as I coddled it with me in bed all day.  Hopefully it will not need to shout so loudly in my face tomorrow, to prove itself to me.  I hope my grief tomorrow can be content with light and gentle whispers.

[Tim300]

OP -- My words were yours when I was just out.  I was perhaps even in a worse state.  I was in a state of complete despair for months.  It must have been about 4 months out when I gradually started to normalize.  I am now just over 6 months out, and I can say that I have been as chipper as ever for a solid month now.  It does get better.  We are here for you.  At some point you will be removed from this, you will have regained focus on other relationships and your job, and you will come to fully understand this severe mental illness (BPD) in the most detached of senses.  I can afford therapists, but let me tell you, for the support and understanding you are seeking at this moment, I actually think bpdfamily.com, combined with other sources about BPD, is your best bet.  Nobody else will fully understand what you're going through -- not even therapists.  The thing that really got me through those first 3 months was constantly reading everything I could get my hands on about BPD -- letting myself fully obsess over it, to the point where I had read everything there was to read -- and then gradually picking up on other activities in my life. Some people will tell you to just start exercising, pick up some hobbies, date someone else; for me, that was all hogwash, I couldn't focus on any of that, not even jogging!  But once enough time passes and you come to fully understand this, all that will come back.

[DyingLove]

OP -- My words were yours when I was just out.  I was perhaps even in a worse state.  I was in a state of complete despair for months.  It must have been about 4 months out when I gradually started to normalize.  I am now just over 6 months out, and I can say that I have been as chipper as ever for a solid month now.  It does get better.  We are here for you.  At some point you will be removed from this, you will have regained focus on other relationships and your job, and you will come to fully understand this severe mental illness (BPD) in the most detached of senses.  I can afford therapists, but let me tell you, for the support and understanding you are seeking at this moment, I actually think bpdfamily.com, combined with other sources about BPD, is your best bet.  Nobody else will fully understand what you're going through -- not even therapists.  The thing that really got me through those first 3 months was constantly reading everything I could get my hands on about BPD -- letting myself fully obsess over it, to the point where I had read everything there was to read -- and then gradually picking up on other activities in my life. Some people will tell you to just start exercising, pick up some hobbies, date someone else; for me, that was all hogwash, I couldn't focus on any of that, not even jogging!  But once enough time passes and you come to fully understand this, all that will come back.

EXCELLENT! CAN'T TYPE ON PHONE BUT JUST WANTED TO RESPOND QUICKLY THANK YOU.