What will I achieve if I stay no contact?

[Depression = 72% of members]

In a word: CONTROL.

[Wood stock]

In a word: CONTROL.

[Bensonshays]

In a word: CONTROL.

True enough. She can't manipulate me if I don't interact with her. But that doesn't make detaching much easier.

[Skip]

Bensonshays, it sounds like if she contacts you, you will take the call. So in that sense, NO CONTACT only means you are not reaching out to her.

If this is true... .

In a word: CONTROL.

What control are we talking about?

[Dunder]

If she tuned around tomorrow and made herself completely available to you, in short order you would start developing doubts about her sincerity, the dependability of the relationship and you would soon be questioning the quality of the relationship.  All of these issues are buried under the rejection anxiety you feel. They will surface when that anxiety is lifted and that will happen with her re-entering your life or you having enough space for the anxiety to dissipate.

I found what Skip wrote here very insightful and very helpful for my own healing process. Sometimes we need to see just one move ahead to understand why what appears to be a solution today simply uncovers a more painful situation tomorrow. What led me to decide to end my unhealthy relationship with a pwBPD was the realization that none of my choices was going to be pleasant, that any option I chose would bring me emotional pain. But relieving my pain momentarily by returning to the relationship will only bring me greater, albeit deferred, pain in the long run. I guess putting it in very simple terms, it's about choosing the best option from a list of options that all stink.

[Bensonshays]

Bensonshays, it sounds like if she contacts you, you will take the call. So in that sense, NO CONTACT only means you are not reaching out to her.

If this is true... .

In a word: CONTROL.

What control are we talking about?

This may all be moot. I haven't talked to her in almost three months. Nonetheless, if she breaks the silence and expresses interest in reviving the relationship, I'd say I'm in control. I said I would like her back, but I'm a little wiser now and have you guys to get feedback from. I wouldn't simply fall to my knees and thank her for giving me a second chance. I'd take my time re-initiating things and there'd need to be some new ground rules.

[Bensonshays]

My emotions are still undulating, so this probably isn't the last time I'll contradict myself. But getting this girl back is not what I need. Whether she is a borderline or just needy, her behavior was unacceptable and I put up with it because of my own issues, which I still need to work through. Perhaps we weren't a good fit, or maybe I just wasn't ready to be in a relationship with someone like her. I'm not sure which it is, but going back to her before I straighten myself out would be a mistake.

I've cut off contact with her because I want her back and have been told that that's the best way to spark her interest again, not because I actually want to get over her and move on. I keep dwelling on her and rationalizing my lingering feelings because I've yet to meet someone else and I'm lonely. The more I think about it, the more I realize that what I'm experiencing is typical. I just need to ride it out and get on with life.

Thank you all for your input on my situation. 

[Skip]

I've cut off contact with her... .

What does this mean?  You are not responding to her?  You are not pursuing her?

[Bensonshays]

I've cut off contact with her... .

What does this mean?  You are not responding to her?  You are not pursuing her?

The latter. She hasn't reached out since January, but I haven't tried to initiate contact either. 

[Skip]

You have to grieve this loss.

You love her.  :)oesn't matter if it wasn't a perfect match or that she is a transitional state in her life - or even if she has personality issues - you love her.

It's a huge loss.

Letting go of some one you love is hard. It hurts.

How can you best channel that energy?  What can you invest it in?

[Bensonshays]

You have to grieve this loss.

You love her.  :)oesn't matter if it wasn't a perfect match or that she is a transitional state in her life - or even if she has personality issues - you love her.

It's a huge loss.

Letting go of some one you love is hard. It hurts.

How can you best channel that energy?  What can you invest it in?

That's a strong word. You think it's fair to use it in this case? I'd just call it infatuation.

I've picked up some new hobbies, rekindling old friendships, trying to meet another girl. The biggest thing, though, is working on the stuff this experience has brought to the surface.

[Skip]

You have to grieve this loss.

You love her.  :)oesn't matter if it wasn't a perfect match or that she is a transitional state in her life - or even if she has personality issues - you love her.

It's a huge loss.

Letting go of some one you love is hard. It hurts.

How can you best channel that energy?  What can you invest it in?

That's a strong word. You think it's fair to use it in this case? I'd just call it infatuation.

I've picked up some new hobbies, rekindling old friendships, trying to meet another girl. The biggest thing, though, is working on the stuff this experience has brought to the surface.

You can add to the list helping others like your self and doing a personal inventory... . 

Is it infatuation - sounds like more than that.  Is love - might be a bit early on that - but you have bonded.

Have you read this?

Disengaging from this type of intense relationship can be difficult. Rationally, you most likely understand that leaving is the healthiest thing you can do now, yet your emotional attachment is undeniable. You find yourself hopelessly trapped by your own desires to rekindle a relationship that you know isn't healthy, and in fact, may not even be available to you.

Often we obsess and ruminate over what our “BPD” partner might be doing or feeling, or who they might be seeing. We wonder if they ever really loved us and how we could have been so easily discarded. Our emotions range from hurt, to disbelief, to anger.

Is this because you partner was so special?

Sure they are special and this is a very significant loss for you - but the depth of your struggles has a lot more to do with the complexity of the relationship bond than the person.

In some important way this relationship saved or rejuvenated you. The way your “BPD” partner hung on to your every word, looked at you with admiring eyes and wanted you, filled an empty void deep inside of you.

Your “BPD” partner may have been insecure and needy and their problems inspired your sympathy and determination to resolve and feel exceptional, heroic, valuable.

As a result, you were willing to tolerate behavior beyond what you've known to be acceptable. You’ve felt certain that “BPD” partner depended on you and that they would never leave. However challenging, you were committed to see it through.

Unknown to you, your BPD partner was also on a complex journey that started long before the relationship began. You were their “knight in shining armor”, you were their hope and the answer to disappointments that they have struggled with most of their life.

Together, this made for an incredibly “loaded” relationship bond between the two of you.

More here... .

[Bensonshays]

Is it infatuation - sounds like more than that.  Is love - might be a bit early on that - but you have bonded.

I honestly don't know what to call it. The emotional highs and lows that have come with dating her have been overwhelming, and I've never felt this invested in any girl before. I guess that could be lurv, but it also may have more to do with my own issues.

Have you read this?

Yeah, that's my experience in 400 words. I found this confusing, though:

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

We often think that by holding back or depriving our “BPD” partner of “our love” – that they will “see the light”. We base this on all the times our partner expressed how special we were and how incredible the relationship was. Absence may makes the heart grow fonder when a relationship is healthy – but this is often not the case when the relationship is breaking down. People with BPD traits often have "object permanence" issues – “out of sight is out of mind”.

How you explain the high percentage of relationship recycling in light of this point? 

[valet]

How you explain the high percentage of relationship recycling in light of this point?  

Issues with object permanency do not mean they completely forget about an object, just that they stash it away in a drawer for themselves. I'm guessing that this is tied into their fears of abandonment.

Relationship recycling, by my estimation, occurs when something they encounter in life triggers these fears and causes them to open the drawer again and find their old objects—the things that have provided comfort and strength for them before.

A person without these deep fears of abandonment would never open the drawer and look for those things for comfort, at least not at the clip that pwBPD do. This, perhaps, explains the high rate of recycling.

This is not to dismiss our own internal problems that find this behavior both desirable and acceptable, however. I think that understanding BPD definitely aids in this process, but fully resolving our own struggles and conflicts by discovering and treating them at their roots is the only true solution; it's our only real tool to reclaim ourselves and take control of our own decisions.

[Skip]

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

We often think that by holding back or depriving our “BPD” partner of “our love” – that they will “see the light”. We base this on all the times our partner expressed how special we were and how incredible the relationship was. Absence may makes the heart grow fonder when a relationship is healthy – but this is often not the case when the relationship is breaking down. People with BPD traits often have "object permanence" issues – “out of sight is out of mind”.

How you explain the high percentage of relationship recycling in light of this point?  

Its a good question. The thoughts are contradictory in the way you point out.  They may not be if you consider if the motivation is love or fear.

Relationship recycling, by my estimation, occurs when something they encounter in life triggers these fears... .

I agree with this, too.

Recycling is something both partners do.  They often do it for similar reasons.

Why do we get caught up in cycles?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=95860.0

These are the questions we need to answer if we ever want the break-up/make-up cycle to end.  Are we returning to this person because we are in love with them and the relationship has a chance, or are we returning to this person because they feel safe?

• Are we afraid to be alone?  

• Do we have our own abandonment issues?  

• Are we fearful that we cannot find someone as good as them again?  

• Are we fearful of the next step (dating, financial issues, etc.)

Why do our "BPD" partners recycle?

It is hard for us to understand why our partner is expressing an interest after they left in a torrent of bad behavior (e.g., cheating, raging and telling us that we are a horrible people).  "If they don't love me, why this?"  The answer is much of the same reasons as we have... .plus a few others that are related to the disorder.

• Inability to deal with acute loneliness

• Severe insecurity / needing validation (from someone that highly values them)

• Shame / wanting to prove they are a good person (to us or themselves)

• Immaturity/Manipulation/Control - the break-up was just a way to get their way.

[going places]

So the question is, should I continue to stay away from this girl if I want to get over her?  

"What will I achieve if I stay no contact"?

1. No contact allows you breathing space and removes the chaos in your heart and mind, so that you can work on YOU. Find out WHY you chose an unhealthy relationship; WHY you chose to stay: and how to correct that 'hic up' in your ways, and start choosing healthy relationships, healthy boundaries, etc.

2. No contact allows you to build yourself on a solid foundation. It removes the 'shifting sand' beneath your feet (in the form of a ever changing volitile relationship).

3. No contact gives you time to think with your brain, and not any other part of your body. It's amazing how right the brain can be when the other parts are not restraining it!

4. No contact shows you, proves to you, that you WILL be ok, that this is a process, but YOU WILL be ok, heck, you will be AMAZING once you work thru the junk, stop accepting abuse-boundaryless relationships-and other such nonsense in your life.

No contact is lonely. It's hard. It's uncomfortable.

BUT if you want to have healthy relationships, you need that space to work on YOU so that moving forward you never have to be in a broken relationship ever again.

[Bensonshays]

Do we have our own abandonment issues? 

Are we fearful that we cannot find someone as good as them again?

Yep, those two are my hang ups. I've always taken rejection personally, as you've observed in this case, Skip. And I'm out dating and socializing again, but the longer I'm single, the more it reinforces my fear that I won't be able to replace this girl.

How you explain the high percentage of relationship recycling in light of this point? 

Issues with object permanency do not mean they completely forget about an object, just that they stash it away in a drawer for themselves. I'm guessing that this is tied into their fears of abandonment.

Relationship recycling, by my estimation, occurs when something they encounter in life triggers these fears and causes them to open the drawer again and find their old objects—the things that have provided comfort and strength for them before.

So in essence, they discard you, permanently in their minds, until they experience some kind of trauma that makes you seem appealing again? And do they do this will all of their ex-partners?

[Skip]

So in essence, they discard you, permanently in their minds, until they experience some kind of trauma that makes you seem appealing again? And do they do this will all of their ex-partners?

We don't know how any one person is processing a breakup, but I think it will help to look at this from her perspective.  She is going to a more validating environment. To an impulsive person, sometime thats easier than fixing the old.  It might not last and when she doesn't want to deal with it anymore, she may search for the next validating environment.

We all do this to a certain extent.  It's just more pronounced in a person who is emotionally impulsive and highly validation driven (and very invalidation adverse).

If she has pwBPD traits (or OCD, ADHD, etc.) she doesn't operate differently than you or I.  She just has higher sensitivities and lower pain thresholds in certain areas. That may not sound like enough justification but think how you function when you body temperature goes up 3%.  

[valet]

So in essence, they discard you, permanently in their minds, until they experience some kind of trauma that makes you seem appealing again? And do they do this will all of their ex-partners?

I'm not quite sure if they 'discard' you, per se. I feel that taking on that victim mentality only slows the recovery process down. They certainly do, without a doubt, discard the relationship, however.

Our relationships with them just happened to be an object (albeit a super complex one, with emotions involved, etc.) for them to attach to. Objects relations are not physical, according the object relations theory. They are how people form attachments to people, things, places, etc. It has nothing to do with us, just how they relate themselves to us.

According to Kleinian theory, '[As] fears of losing the loved one become active, a very important step is made in the development. These feelings of guilt and distress now enter as a new element into the emotion of love. They become an inherent part of love, and influence it profoundly both in quality and quantity.'

Klein, Mélanie; Riviere, Joan (1964). "Love, guilt, and reparation". In link. Love, Hate, and Reparation. New York, NY: Norton. ISBN 978-0-393-00260-7.

This may seem like a fairly academically rigorous estimation, but all that it means is that due to FOO issues, they didn't learn to bond to people in a way that gave them a good idea of what lasting romantic love is. I think that it's a natural consequence for us to assume that since they do not have a real concept of healthy love, that when the honeymoon chemicals fade and they are no longer over-powered by thoughts of us, they begin to think that something is both horribly wrong with themselves and the relationship. The lack of brain chemistry that was once there makes them feel like they are losing us, even though we fully love them and are not going anywhere. This causes them to withdraw. The guilt and distress that they suffer from has become too much, and they can longer focus their full attention on us, which is their mental model of being in a healthy relationship.

Of course, anyone will tell you that a relationship should never consume you as a person. It's basic advice: relationship 101. The unfortunate thing about pwBPD is that they are never able to believe in anything other than the subconscious fantasy that it should.

[Bensonshays]

Very interesting observations. Right after the break up, I remember making note of the fact that she seemed hypersensitive to the things I said and did. For example, not texting her for a day caused her a lot of distress, and she began to doubt that I was interested in a relationship. That occurred during our first week together. A girl without her attachment issues would need a lot more distance before feeling the same level of dread that she did.

Regarding the point that they discard the relationship and not you, it seems like semantics. If they don't want the relationship, then they're not getting what they want from you. The result to you is the same,  even if it's a chemical imbalance in her brain that's the root of the problem.

[valet]

Ah, maybe I didn't make myself super clear. This is also just a personal theory based on observations that I have made.

The devaluation does not occur due to a chemical imbalance (I also think that the term 'chemical imbalance' is a total misnomer, although I do understand what you mean). It occurs because when the honeymoon phase ends, our endorphin levels slowly drop, and their attachment style does not mix well with those feelings of normalcy and comfort that a non would experience in a relationship at that phase.

Under a normal set of logic, I would definitely agree with you. People leave relationships because you are not satisfying their needs. But in a BPD relationship, it is literally impossible to satisfy their needs. We cannot provide a stable sense of self for them. We cannot abate their intense fears of abandonment/engulfment. Without treatment, it is only a matter of time.

And truthfully, is it really worth it to stay with someone that requires you to do such an incredible amount of work, work above and beyond the standards of a healthy relationship?

Right after the break up, I remember making note of the fact that she seemed hypersensitive to the things I said and did. For example, not texting her for a day caused her a lot of distress, and she began to doubt that I was interested in a relationship. That occurred during our first week together. A girl without her attachment issues would need a lot more distance before feeling the same level of dread that she did.

My ex was also the same way shortly after. When I met up with her she seemed almost in another world (disassociated, unable to hold a conversation, would seem lost in space, etc.) with sensitivity to my facial expressions, body movements, and words. When I talked to her online or via whatsapp she was incredibly responsive, like within 15 seconds I would hear back from her, after almost every interaction. This went on for a few weeks until I put a stop to it. It was driving me crazy because it felt like the relationship had never ended, when in reality it was already way gone.

It seemed odd at the time, but I thought that she was just trying to comfort me through the breakup since she was the one that initiated it. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I hadn't considered it before.

[Bensonshays]

Ah, maybe I didn't make myself super clear. This is also just a personal theory based on observations that I have made.

The devaluation does not occur due to a chemical imbalance (I also think that the term 'chemical imbalance' is a total misnomer, although I do understand what you mean). It occurs because when the honeymoon phase ends, our endorphin levels slowly drop, and their attachment style does not mix well with those feelings of normalcy and comfort that a non would experience in a relationship at that phase.

Sorry, I misunderstood your comments. I don't think it's a misnomer generally,  but perhaps in this case. I'm not sure how or if a borderline's brain differs from anyone else's.

Under a normal set of logic, I would definitely agree with you. People leave relationships because you are not satisfying their needs. But in a BPD relationship, it is literally impossible to satisfy their needs. We cannot provide a stable sense of self for them. We cannot abate their intense fears of abandonment/engulfment. Without treatment, it is only a matter of time.

Good point, though I think that's the kind of thinking people here have warned me against - e.g. "she was crazy, so it wasn't my fault." I could be misunderstanding you again,  though.

And truthfully, is it really worth it to stay with someone that requires you to do such an incredible amount of work, work above and beyond the standards of a healthy relationship?

No, but I still don't mean it when I say it. I'm processing a lot still, asking myself the same questions ad nauseum.

My ex was also the same way shortly after. When I met up with her she seemed almost in another world (disassociated, unable to hold a conversation, would seem lost in space, etc.) with sensitivity to my facial expressions, body movements, and words. When I talked to her online or via whatsapp she was incredibly responsive, like within 15 seconds I would hear back from her, after almost every interaction. This went on for a few weeks until I put a stop to it. It was driving me crazy because it felt like the relationship had never ended, when in reality it was already way gone.

It seemed odd at the time, but I thought that she was just trying to comfort me through the breakup since she was the one that initiated it. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I hadn't considered it before.

I was talking about during the relationship. Any girl needs to know that you like her, but this girl needed constant validation, but would also randomly pull away. Very extreme iterations of what are otherwise normal behaviors,  the need for comfort and healthy distance.

But your anecdote is another good example of my point.

[Mutt]

The thread has reached it's post limit and is locked. It's a worthwhile topic and a new or similar topic of discussion is welcomed. Thanks.