email I sent to my ex

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Those that don't know my story might be think that this was an incredibly poor decision on my part. Most here have had very painful relationships with their BPD partners with sustained raging, violence, lies and cheating. I cringe with sympathy when I read many of these accounts and can't imagine the pain that my friends here have been put through as a result.

I am one of the rare ones that didn't experience any of these problems (by and large although we DID recycle several times) and actually had a very rewarding and happy relationship together. Yes, there were problems as there are in any r/s and some of them, in hindsight, were clearly as a result of BPD.

She left when I was away almost 8 months ago and notified me with an angry text. I have been blocked from contacting her in every way that one can think of and an attempt to contact her from an unblocked hotel phone on xmas was met with a call from the local police. It pissed me off in a profound way when she did that and pushed me away hard. It actually helped me to detach a bit and know that it was time to move forward.

I have to admit, I believe that she and I were not only compatible but made for one another and I know that she is suffering from her actions - I love her and I miss her a lot. This has been fueled by accounts that I have been reading of BPD's that do things like this and don't actually feel any control over what they do. That while they are realizing on the one hand that they are inflicting pain upon the person that they care about most in the world, they wish at the same time that they could do something to stop it... .and stop sabotaging the relationship that they care most about.

I really believe that my exBPDfiance falls under this description. I know little about her since she has left - even where she lives is a mystery. But I DO know that she gained a LOT of weight likely as a result of depression or some other form of coping, and that's about it.  I did catch her stalking me on FB back in the winter and I have been getting persistent 'silent calls', anonymous visitors to my LinkedIN account (several a day sometimes) and yesterday a fake FB friend request that is not like any other fake friend request that I have had that leads me to believe that it might be her. ... .or maybe NONE of the above; its one of the maddening things about this. It also has occurred to me through other accounts that I have read about here, that my NC and respecting her boundaries to a disordered mind, may in fact, make her believe that I have gone ahead and abandoned her which may be causing her sustained silence - this has bother me. But how to let her know that I am still 'here' without triggering any emotion?

So, I have been getting some mail and forwarding it to her office with no enclosure, just the mail. None of it has been returned 'refused' (as was a long letter I wrote to her shortly after the breakup) which, I suppose, is a positive sign. I had a batch of junk mail that has been teed up for a few weeks and I decided to write a note after input from some friends here. This is what I wrote:

"ExBPDfiance,

I doubt that you want this kind of unimportant mail but felt a responsibility to let you know that it’s still headed here in the event that you wanted to change the address. Let me know otherwise, but I’ll go ahead and pitch it going forward.

Let me know if you need anything…I am here.

Hope all is well

JRT"

My goal for sending this was to signal her that I was still here and that I did care and have not abandoned her. Personally, I love forever and would go through great lengths for anyone that I had ever dated or for any of my friends. I am still committed to leaving the relationship (I think) and am dating someone (not much of a keeper, but someone to go out with) but it breaks my heart to know that things ended this way... .and that she is suffers. Maybe a friendship with her is simply not possible, but I feel an failure on my part to not explore any opportunity to offer it. Regardless, after close to 8 months, I am feeling less the probability that I will ever hear from her again.

I'm not ever really sure that I know why I am posting this... .perhaps part confession or it might resonate with someone else and make them feel that they were not alone in their crises.

Thanks for reading.

[JRT]

Those that don't know my story might be think that this was an incredibly poor decision on my part. Most here have had very painful relationships with their BPD partners with sustained raging, violence, lies and cheating. I cringe with sympathy when I read many of these accounts and can't imagine the pain that my friends here have been put through as a result.

I am one of the rare ones that didn't experience any of these problems (by and large although we DID recycle several times) and actually had a very rewarding and happy relationship together. Yes, there were problems as there are in any r/s and some of them, in hindsight, were clearly as a result of BPD.

She left when I was away almost 8 months ago and notified me with an angry text. I have been blocked from contacting her in every way that one can think of and an attempt to contact her from an unblocked hotel phone on xmas was met with a call from the local police. It pissed me off in a profound way when she did that and pushed me away hard. It actually helped me to detach a bit and know that it was time to move forward.

I have to admit, I believe that she and I were not only compatible but made for one another and I know that she is suffering from her actions - I love her and I miss her a lot. This has been fueled by accounts that I have been reading of BPD's that do things like this and don't actually feel any control over what they do. That while they are realizing on the one hand that they are inflicting pain upon the person that they care about most in the world, they wish at the same time that they could do something to stop it... .and stop sabotaging the relationship that they care most about.

I really believe that my exBPDfiance falls under this description. I know little about her since she has left - even where she lives is a mystery. But I DO know that she gained a LOT of weight likely as a result of depression or some other form of coping, and that's about it.  I did catch her stalking me on FB back in the winter and I have been getting persistent 'silent calls', anonymous visitors to my LinkedIN account (several a day sometimes) and yesterday a fake FB friend request that is not like any other fake friend request that I have had that leads me to believe that it might be her. ... .or maybe NONE of the above; its one of the maddening things about this. It also has occurred to me through other accounts that I have read about here, that my NC and respecting her boundaries to a disordered mind, may in fact, make her believe that I have gone ahead and abandoned her which may be causing her sustained silence - this has bother me. But how to let her know that I am still 'here' without triggering any emotion?

So, I have been getting some mail and forwarding it to her office with no enclosure, just the mail. None of it has been returned 'refused' (as was a long letter I wrote to her shortly after the breakup) which, I suppose, is a positive sign. I had a batch of junk mail that has been teed up for a few weeks and I decided to write a note after input from some friends here. This is what I wrote:

"ExBPDfiance,

I doubt that you want this kind of unimportant mail but felt a responsibility to let you know that it’s still headed here in the event that you wanted to change the address. Let me know otherwise, but I’ll go ahead and pitch it going forward.

Let me know if you need anything…I am here.

Hope all is well

JRT"

My goal for sending this was to signal her that I was still here and that I did care and have not abandoned her. Personally, I love forever and would go through great lengths for anyone that I had ever dated or for any of my friends. I am still committed to leaving the relationship (I think) and am dating someone (not much of a keeper, but someone to go out with) but it breaks my heart to know that things ended this way... .and that she is suffers. Maybe a friendship with her is simply not possible, but I feel an failure on my part to not explore any opportunity to offer it. Regardless, after close to 8 months, I am feeling less the probability that I will ever hear from her again.

I'm not ever really sure that I know why I am posting this... .perhaps part confession or it might resonate with someone else and make them feel that they were not alone in their crises.

Thanks for reading.

[cosmonaut]

It's good that you realize your reasons for contacting your ex.  Sometimes we can hide that from ourselves.  So, good work on that self-awareness.     I think you know I'm in a similar situation.  It's hard to have someone that we love gone from our lives.  Especially when the reasons are so hard to understand.  I still love my ex too.  And I miss her.  So, I understand.  This is a brutally hard experience.  I'm sorry you're going through it too.

I think it's a kind gesture to remind her to change her mail forwarding.  That was a nice thing to do.  And it's kind to let her know that you are there for her.

I would only worry it's a poor decision because the police have already been involved.  I just don't want to see the situation escalate.  That would be my major concern.  What are your thoughts on that.  Might be an innocent enough gesture, though.  I also don't want you to feel terrible if you don't hear anything.  I think you've been here long enough to know that you are a trigger now.  And that's not your fault at all.  But it does mean that it's very hard for our exes to contact us, because it's very painful and shameful for them.  So, just keep that in mind if you don't hear anything.  I never heard anything from my ex when I reached out and it was very hard.  It's really difficult to get our minds around how someone we could be so close to, could cut us off so coldly and completely.

[Achaya]

JRT, I am another person on this board who was not raged at, physically abused, or cheated upon. I used to think my ex must have been misdiagnosed, because she doesn't do those things. My ex is a quiet, emotionally controlled person who tries to be ethical in her treatment of people. Her abuse of me consisted mostly of sudden unexpected withdrawals and abandonments of me and our relationship. I have a lot of the same feelings towards her that you express here towards your ex. I worry about her quite a bit, as she is emotionally vulnerable and does not have good coping mechanisms. I have reached out to her several times in the past month to ask if she is okay.

The problem I see with continuing to caretake our exes: we are extending ourselves to them based on what we imagine they feel, want or need from us. We might make mistakes in thinking that our exes respond to separations the same way we do, or that they are as vulnerable now as we have seen them be during the relationship. Actually, during and after breakups most of them seem to handle their feelings via denial, avoidance, numbing  themselves, distracting themselves, and hooking with new suppliers. I think that my ex has felt stronger and more whole sometimes after a breakup, like a teenager who has revolted against the parents and broken free.

My impression of my ex and of the other ex partners described on this board is that they are very proactive and exceptionally capable when it comes to arranging for new suppliers of emotional support. I think they probably would be very capable of contacting us if they really felt like doing so. While it is true that they suffer from shame and fears of rejection, none of their mind states are stable, and they act impulsively on feelings of the moment. One would guess that if they really want to contact us, the impulse would hit them and they would act on it, at least occasionally.

I completely identify with the your felt need to reach out to your ex, and as I said, I have done so with mine. I think, however, that the outreach was partly because I still want to show love to her. My attachment to her is still alive, even if hers to me is not. Unfortunately, giving love from my side isn't enough to make a relationship.

[JRT]

It's good that you realize your reasons for contacting your ex.  Sometimes we can hide that from ourselves.  So, good work on that self-awareness.     I think you know I'm in a similar situation.  It's hard to have someone that we love gone from our lives.  Especially when the reasons are so hard to understand.  I still love my ex too.  And I miss her.  So, I understand.  This is a brutally hard experience.  I'm sorry you're going through it too.

I think it's a kind gesture to remind her to change her mail forwarding.  That was a nice thing to do.  And it's kind to let her know that you are there for her.

I would only worry it's a poor decision because the police have already been involved.  I just don't want to see the situation escalate.  That would be my major concern.  What are your thoughts on that.  Might be an innocent enough gesture, though.  I also don't want you to feel terrible if you don't hear anything.  I think you've been here long enough to know that you are a trigger now.  And that's not your fault at all.  But it does mean that it's very hard for our exes to contact us, because it's very painful and shameful for them.  So, just keep that in mind if you don't hear anything.  I never heard anything from my ex when I reached out and it was very hard.  It's really difficult to get our minds around how someone we could be so close to, could cut us off so coldly and completely.

Thank you for you r thoughts Cosmonaut, I really appreciate it. I know how you feel and its horrible that you have had to endure this thing.

I have very slight concern about her calling the cops... .I have reason to suspect that she really doesn't want to cause legal problems but DID want to enforce her boundaries as I triggered her. If she wanted to cause problems for me she could have taken a different approach.

I don't have the expectation that she will contact me... .she might just toss it into the trash without reading it or if she reads it, might write it off as me being 'manipulative' or some other thing... .I am SO painted black that I have no idea what it would take for me to be painted white again... .she DID do this on cycles with her friends so who knows.

What is the distinction between a 'trigger' and being 'painted black' ? Do they work in tandem with one another or are they one in the same? Is me as a trigger that extreme where she would call the police? Her behavior almost seems like that of a person that was being threatened with certain violence!

Shaking my head... .confusing. 

[peacefulmind]

It's good that you realize your reasons for contacting your ex.  Sometimes we can hide that from ourselves.  So, good work on that self-awareness.    I think you know I'm in a similar situation.  It's hard to have someone that we love gone from our lives.  Especially when the reasons are so hard to understand.  I still love my ex too.  And I miss her.  So, I understand.  This is a brutally hard experience.  I'm sorry you're going through it too.

I think it's a kind gesture to remind her to change her mail forwarding.  That was a nice thing to do.  And it's kind to let her know that you are there for her.

I would only worry it's a poor decision because the police have already been involved.  I just don't want to see the situation escalate.  That would be my major concern.  What are your thoughts on that.  Might be an innocent enough gesture, though.  I also don't want you to feel terrible if you don't hear anything.  I think you've been here long enough to know that you are a trigger now.  And that's not your fault at all.  But it does mean that it's very hard for our exes to contact us, because it's very painful and shameful for them.  So, just keep that in mind if you don't hear anything.  I never heard anything from my ex when I reached out and it was very hard.  It's really difficult to get our minds around how someone we could be so close to, could cut us off so coldly and completely.

Thank you for you r thoughts Cosmonaut, I really appreciate it. I know how you feel and its horrible that you have had to endure this thing.

I have very slight concern about her calling the cops... .I have reason to suspect that she really doesn't want to cause legal problems but DID want to enforce her boundaries as I triggered her. If she wanted to cause problems for me she could have taken a different approach.

I don't have the expectation that she will contact me... .she might just toss it into the trash without reading it or if she reads it, might write it off as me being 'manipulative' or some other thing... .I am SO painted black that I have no idea what it would take for me to be painted white again... .she DID do this on cycles with her friends so who knows.

What is the distinction between a 'trigger' and being 'painted black' ? Do they work in tandem with one another or are they one in the same? Is me as a trigger that extreme where she would call the police? Her behavior almost seems like that of a person that was being threatened with certain violence!

Shaking my head... .confusing.  

Sounds like you did what was best for you JRT, I commend you. You stayed strong and upheld your boundaries and didn't let it get to you. Truly inspirational.

As for your question, from what I've read, a trigger is you basically being the manifest of what she fears the most. This could e.g. be engulfment or abandonment. As a result, you are painted black, the defense mechanism for pwBPD to protect themselves from the trigger (in this case perhaps you). So yes, one very much precede the other. I think I was painted black before I became a trigger in my relationship, so the exact order of which these things happen, I'm not entirely sure and may be unique to each pwBPD.

I agree, I am still amiss how these very complex mechanisms happen and I will educate myself on the higher brain centres involved in this once I have the time for it. It's fascinating at the same time as being tragic.

[JRT]

Thanks as well for your thoughts PM and your support, I really appreciate it.

The series of events are incredible even by BPD standards... .we used FB IM frequently and I have looked over our sessions from the day prior going back several days... .there was absolutely nothing there that hinted at what was about to happen. Nor the photos that I took at an ice cream store the night prior. If anything, she was looking forward to various aspects of our relationship and the new dynamics of sharing a home with me/planning our wedding/being a step mother to my daughter (who adored her). 'Fascinating' is the word that I also would have used if I wasn't caught up in it... .'tragic' is the one I use since I was. 

Not one word 8 months later. How long has it been for you?

[peacefulmind]

Thanks as well for your thoughts PM and your support, I really appreciate it.

The series of events are incredible even by BPD standards... .we used FB IM frequently and I have looked over our sessions from the day prior going back several days... .there was absolutely nothing there that hinted at what was about to happen. Nor the photos that I took at an ice cream store the night prior. If anything, she was looking forward to various aspects of our relationship and the new dynamics of sharing a home with me/planning our wedding/being a step mother to my daughter (who adored her). 'Fascinating' is the word that I also would have used if I wasn't caught up in it... .'tragic' is the one I use since I was. 

Not one word 8 months later. How long has it been for you?

I can relate to the blindsiding of the events. My black painting happened a few days after our anniversary, and a few days after we had talked about our future together, how we move in together, places we would like to live at, all that. I agree that fascinating doesn't describe the feelings that I feel at the moment, but given the nature of my work, it is. This is of course an individual experience... .

It has been 2 months since I last time heard from my ex-BPD. So I'm still very much caught up in it, but I am working on moving on for myself, asserting boundaries for the future for myself, so I can get over the co-dependency traits I possess myself. I need to stop enabling bad behavior, and I need to stop accepting being walked all over at anyone's behalf. What hurts me the most is the fact that I have been a strong support in everything my ex-BPD has gone through, I've been there listening, supporting, advicing, and never judged him/her for the actions. I have always cared and loved him/her, but in the eye of a pwBPD this matters less than what you offer in the moment. It's truly heartbreaking to know that I went from being a perfectly happy person with everything going for me, to this mess of a pill-popping (anti-depressants) struggler who has to attend a psychologist next week for me to be able to live my life fully.

[apollotech]

"What is the distinction between a 'trigger' and being 'painted black' ? Do they work in tandem with one another or are they one in the same?"

JRT,

As I understand the BPD complex, being a trigger and being painted black/white are two different things as a result of different defense mechanisms.

As a trigger, you trigger the fear of abandonment or engulfment. If a pwBPD gets to close to, intimate with, a partner, they can feel (Remember that feelings, emotions, can be reality for a pwBPD.) as if they are losing themselves in the partner (engulfment). This will result in the BPD person pushing away (silent treatment and/or rage). If the Non moves too far away, fear of abandonment is triggered; as a result, the pwBPD pulls (re-engagement and/or love bombing). These two opposite extremes (fear of engulfment/abandonment) represent the engine of the BPD push/pull cycle. Stability can only be maintained when both of these extremes are balanced (They cancel one another.).

Being painted black/white is a product of objectification/compartmentalisation/polarized thinking (someone is all good or all bad). One is painted black when he/she does not meet the needs/expectations of the pwBPD. Again, not meeting said needs/expectations may be real or imagined shortfalls of the Non. It is an emotional response, therefore, a personal response---anger, hatefulness, lashing out, etc. (The child having the tantrum saying that you are a bad person.) As I understand the "painting" concept, calling the cops does not fit into this metric as that is a rational (cognizant) response. Likewise, if you are painted white (idealization), you have no fault whatsoever; therefore, you are better than ice cream. Both conditions are totally unrealistic of course as no one is all good or all bad. When the Non is confronted with this polarized dynamic by the pwBPD, the Non will try to defend his/her person by pointing out the range of their personal qualities, both good and bad (admitting imperfections). However, the pwBPD doesn't accept/see the Non as an independent/dynamic person (with both good and bad qualities that form the complete person), so the Non is objectified by the pwBPD---painted black or white (polarized as all bad or all good). This completely robs the Non of his/her ability to be human as the pwBPD's expectations can never be met.

[BlackHoleSun]

Thanks as well for your thoughts PM and your support, I really appreciate it.

The series of events are incredible even by BPD standards... .we used FB IM frequently and I have looked over our sessions from the day prior going back several days... .there was absolutely nothing there that hinted at what was about to happen. Nor the photos that I took at an ice cream store the night prior. If anything, she was looking forward to various aspects of our relationship and the new dynamics of sharing a home with me/planning our wedding/being a step mother to my daughter (who adored her). 'Fascinating' is the word that I also would have used if I wasn't caught up in it... .'tragic' is the one I use since I was. 

There's nothing really incredible about the above at all! We can't say 100% whether your ex is BPD, however from your back story we can ASSUME that she is possibly a high functioning "quiet" borderline or at least has some of the traits, which means the above is actually pretty common behaviour.

Instead of externalising their negative feelings (raging, abusive behaviour etc), quiet borderlines internalize their negative feelings. So to you it may appear that your relationship was going well and everything was great but... .well it wasn't, at least not for her. If your ex is a quiet borderline then there's every chance that she was internalising all the negative stuff she felt for the entirety of your relationship. What you've experienced is just the culmination of that. Quiet borderlines tend to be people pleasers, they just go along with stuff even when they don't want to. They're scared if they upset people then those people will not like them or even abandon them. They also tend not to speak out when they're unhappy and instead let it all mount up inside until their negative emotions are overwhelming then... .BOOM! They're gone.

I can see you're still hurting and confused and I feel for you, I really do, but to me it seems like you're still in denial. You've painted your ex white and can't get past that. You've done the same with the relationship. I guess what you have to try and understand is that your experience of that relationship was very different to what your ex will have experienced. That the person you thought you knew and loved... .you never really knew at all. Its tough I know, I've been there myself. You need to try and see the whole relationship for what it actually was in reality, not the illusion that you're still caught up in. This is a common problem when coming out of a relationship with someone with a PD. Its not true love. You're not soul mates. Its not written in the stars... .in fact they never really felt the way that you felt about them at all. It was an illusion. Its hard to accept.

If your ex doesn't want contact then she really means that... .she doesn't want contact. If someone has BPD and wants to contact you then trust me they will. Hell and high water wouldn't stop them! If they really want you in their life they will keep you in their life. If they don't then they'll drop you like a ton of bricks. Its all about them, not about you at all.

This may all seem harsh and not want you want to hear. But what you want to hear and what you need to hear are 2 completely different things, especially if you genuinely want to move on from what you've experienced. Hope that helps in someway.

1 other thing I'd add. You say you're dating someone but she's "not a keeper but someone to go out with". So you're basically stringing her along and using her then? Not cool.

[4Years5Months]

JRT, I think you made the right move to contact her in the way you did.  You presented her with information that is still valuable to her (mail forwarding) but also left yourself open to be contacted.  As others have said, her contacting the police is a major  in my opinion, regardless of why she did it.  That is extreme behavior as far as I am concerned.  I don't know if you meant to do it or not, but somewhat disguising your contact attempt under the veil of the mail forwarding info probably kept you from any kind of real punishment if she did go to the cops again this time.

I think your ex and mine are very similar, as we have discussed on here in many ways.  I would say at this point, you have done everything you can do to reach out to her, and if she doesn't respond, then that's it.  I can tell you my ex would respond to a similar overture from me, so if they are the same (waif BPDer who carries immense shame) she will reach out to you.  If she doesn't, take that as a definite sign to let her go and move on.

This thread has been very good for me to read everyone's posts about their exes, as I see many direct similarities to mine.  She did contact me a month ago and we had a six our message conversation where she professed her love and need for me, but stopped short of trying to recycle as I'm dating someone else.  It was such an emotional release to know she still cares.  But yet, off she went, back to my replacement.  And she has gone silent yet again this week, after trading e-mails last week.  It truly is whatever they feel and need at THAT MOMENT.

JRT, you gave her the option.  Now you have to sit back and wait.  If I were you, I would silently (to yourself) give her a deadline to contact you.  Say, June 1st or so.  If she doesn't, you HAVE to let her go.  I cannot fathom sitting here in say, December, wondering if my ex is going to contact me.  I have decided if she doesn't contact me by my birthday (which is in July) I am done with her.  I think that's plenty of time for her (obviously) and enough time for me, given she reached out to me so significantly a month ago.  But if she goes silent again for a long time, I'll take it as a clear sign that I shouldn't count on her being a part of my life anymore.

[BlackHoleSun]

"What is the distinction between a 'trigger' and being 'painted black' ? Do they work in tandem with one another or are they one in the same?"

JRT,

As I understand the BPD complex, being a trigger and being painted black/white are two different things as a result of different defense mechanisms.

As a trigger, you trigger the fear of abandonment or engulfment. If a pwBPD gets to close to, intimate with, a partner, they can feel (Remember that feelings, emotions, can be reality for a pwBPD.) as if they are losing themselves in the partner (engulfment). This will result in the BPD person pushing away (silent treatment and/or rage). If the Non moves too far away, fear of abandonment is triggered; as a result, the pwBPD pulls (re-engagement and/or love bombing). These two opposite extremes (fear of engulfment/abandonment) represent the engine of the BPD push/pull cycle. Stability can only be maintained when both of these extremes are balanced (They cancel one another.).

Being painted black/white is a product of objectification/compartmentalisation/polarized thinking (someone is all good or all bad). One is painted black when he/she does not meet the needs/expectations of the pwBPD. Again, not meeting said needs/expectations may be real or imagined shortfalls of the Non. It is an emotional response, therefore, a personal response---anger, hatefulness, lashing out, etc. (The child having the tantrum saying that you are a bad person.) As I understand the "painting" concept, calling the cops does not fit into this metric as that is a rational (cognizant) response. Likewise, if you are painted white (idealization), you have no fault whatsoever; therefore, you are better than ice cream. Both conditions are totally unrealistic of course as no one is all good or all bad. When the Non is confronted with this polarized dynamic by the pwBPD, the Non will try to defend his/her person by pointing out the range of their personal qualities, both good and bad (admitting imperfections). However, the pwBPD doesn't accept/see the Non as an independent/dynamic person (with both good and bad qualities that form the complete person), so the Non is objectified by the pwBPD---painted black or white (polarized as all bad or all good). This completely robs the Non of his/her ability to be human as the pwBPD's expectations can never be met.

Hey man! Cool post. Some good info there!

What I'd also add (and this is not aimed at JRT just in general) is that obviously someone that's thinking rationally may call the police or file a restraining order when feeling harassed or threatened.

However for people with BPD it can also fall into Criteria 9 - Paranoid Ideation. When under stress people with BPD can become psychotic and suffer with severe delusions. They can genuinely believe that people are out to get them, harm them etc when there is in actual fact zero threat. They can end up calling the cops, taking out restraining orders as they genuinely feel in danger. I've spoken to a diagnosed BPD about this pretty extensively.

[JRT]

"What is the distinction between a 'trigger' and being 'painted black' ? Do they work in tandem with one another or are they one in the same?"

JRT,

As I understand the BPD complex, being a trigger and being painted black/white are two different things as a result of different defense mechanisms.

As a trigger, you trigger the fear of abandonment or engulfment. If a pwBPD gets to close to, intimate with, a partner, they can feel (Remember that feelings, emotions, can be reality for a pwBPD.) as if they are losing themselves in the partner (engulfment). This will result in the BPD person pushing away (silent treatment and/or rage). If the Non moves too far away, fear of abandonment is triggered; as a result, the pwBPD pulls (re-engagement and/or love bombing). These two opposite extremes (fear of engulfment/abandonment) represent the engine of the BPD push/pull cycle. Stability can only be maintained when both of these extremes are balanced (They cancel one another.).

Being painted black/white is a product of objectification/compartmentalisation/polarized thinking (someone is all good or all bad). One is painted black when he/she does not meet the needs/expectations of the pwBPD. Again, not meeting said needs/expectations may be real or imagined shortfalls of the Non. It is an emotional response, therefore, a personal response---anger, hatefulness, lashing out, etc. (The child having the tantrum saying that you are a bad person.) As I understand the "painting" concept, calling the cops does not fit into this metric as that is a rational (cognizant) response. Likewise, if you are painted white (idealization), you have no fault whatsoever; therefore, you are better than ice cream. Both conditions are totally unrealistic of course as no one is all good or all bad. When the Non is confronted with this polarized dynamic by the pwBPD, the Non will try to defend his/her person by pointing out the range of their personal qualities, both good and bad (admitting imperfections). However, the pwBPD doesn't accept/see the Non as an independent/dynamic person (with both good and bad qualities that form the complete person), so the Non is objectified by the pwBPD---painted black or white (polarized as all bad or all good). This completely robs the Non of his/her ability to be human as the pwBPD's expectations can never be met.

Thanks as always Apollo ... .so we know that people can remain black or white forever and they can change: it just depends on the person. And I understand what leads to that, especially after your explanation. But what creates the trigger? And do we stay a trigger forever? Or does that change like painting black and white?

[JRT]

JRT, I think you made the right move to contact her in the way you did.  You presented her with information that is still valuable to her (mail forwarding) but also left yourself open to be contacted.  As others have said, her contacting the police is a major  in my opinion, regardless of why she did it.  That is extreme behavior as far as I am concerned.  I don't know if you meant to do it or not, but somewhat disguising your contact attempt under the veil of the mail forwarding info probably kept you from any kind of real punishment if she did go to the cops again this time.

I think your ex and mine are very similar, as we have discussed on here in many ways.  I would say at this point, you have done everything you can do to reach out to her, and if she doesn't respond, then that's it.  I can tell you my ex would respond to a similar overture from me, so if they are the same (waif BPDer who carries immense shame) she will reach out to you.  If she doesn't, take that as a definite sign to let her go and move on.

This thread has been very good for me to read everyone's posts about their exes, as I see many direct similarities to mine.  She did contact me a month ago and we had a six our message conversation where she professed her love and need for me, but stopped short of trying to recycle as I'm dating someone else.  It was such an emotional release to know she still cares.  But yet, off she went, back to my replacement.  And she has gone silent yet again this week, after trading e-mails last week.  It truly is whatever they feel and need at THAT MOMENT.

JRT, you gave her the option.  Now you have to sit back and wait.  If I were you, I would silently (to yourself) give her a deadline to contact you.  Say, June 1st or so.  If she doesn't, you HAVE to let her go.  I cannot fathom sitting here in say, December, wondering if my ex is going to contact me.  I have decided if she doesn't contact me by my birthday (which is in July) I am done with her.  I think that's plenty of time for her (obviously) and enough time for me, given she reached out to me so significantly a month ago.  But if she goes silent again for a long time, I'll take it as a clear sign that I shouldn't count on her being a part of my life anymore.

4 Years... .great post... .thank you.

You are entirely right about letting go. You and I have the same sort of goal in mind just a bit of a different approach. I intend to continue dating in hopes of finding someone special to be in my life and that works with my daughter in mind as well. Its a process that might go on for many months or years or end tomorrow - clearly no one knows about these things.

During that time, if she reappears I owe it to her to talk to her at least. I WANT to be friends with her but don't know if that's possible. I would even think about re-engaging with her but man, do I have criteria! Notwithstanding, she has a LOT of repair work that she would have to do and I just don't know if she is up to the task.

So, I am just moving along with life under the consideration that this event might happen or it will not, just like those winning Lotto numbers: I will not base my future upon the assumption of getting a huge check from the lottery commission. I'm pretty happy this way in the entire scheme of things and its not really holding me back as far as I can see. 

[BlackHoleSun]

"What is the distinction between a 'trigger' and being 'painted black' ? Do they work in tandem with one another or are they one in the same?"

JRT,

As I understand the BPD complex, being a trigger and being painted black/white are two different things as a result of different defense mechanisms.

As a trigger, you trigger the fear of abandonment or engulfment. If a pwBPD gets to close to, intimate with, a partner, they can feel (Remember that feelings, emotions, can be reality for a pwBPD.) as if they are losing themselves in the partner (engulfment). This will result in the BPD person pushing away (silent treatment and/or rage). If the Non moves too far away, fear of abandonment is triggered; as a result, the pwBPD pulls (re-engagement and/or love bombing). These two opposite extremes (fear of engulfment/abandonment) represent the engine of the BPD push/pull cycle. Stability can only be maintained when both of these extremes are balanced (They cancel one another.).

Being painted black/white is a product of objectification/compartmentalisation/polarized thinking (someone is all good or all bad). One is painted black when he/she does not meet the needs/expectations of the pwBPD. Again, not meeting said needs/expectations may be real or imagined shortfalls of the Non. It is an emotional response, therefore, a personal response---anger, hatefulness, lashing out, etc. (The child having the tantrum saying that you are a bad person.) As I understand the "painting" concept, calling the cops does not fit into this metric as that is a rational (cognizant) response. Likewise, if you are painted white (idealization), you have no fault whatsoever; therefore, you are better than ice cream. Both conditions are totally unrealistic of course as no one is all good or all bad. When the Non is confronted with this polarized dynamic by the pwBPD, the Non will try to defend his/her person by pointing out the range of their personal qualities, both good and bad (admitting imperfections). However, the pwBPD doesn't accept/see the Non as an independent/dynamic person (with both good and bad qualities that form the complete person), so the Non is objectified by the pwBPD---painted black or white (polarized as all bad or all good). This completely robs the Non of his/her ability to be human as the pwBPD's expectations can never be met.

Thanks as always Apollo ... .so we know that people can remain black or white forever and they can change: it just depends on the person. And I understand what leads to that, especially after your explanation. But what creates the trigger? And do we stay a trigger forever? Or does that change like painting black and white?

OK, a trigger at its simplest level is literally something that "triggers" an emotion or feeling. So let's say you like to eat with your mouth open. That might piss your BPD gf off. It annoys her. So eventually everytime you do it it triggers her. So a standard BPD will go nuts and scream at you, whilst your ex would have just kept quiet and let little things like that build up. Eventually you become a whole bag of triggers! Again you'll know about it with a standard BPD person, its different with a quiet borderline though. They'll secretly hate you instead of trying to rip your head off!

I'm probably not explaining this very well but that's sort of how triggers work at the base level of BPD. So basically you became a whole bag of triggers! With a standard BPD person you'll see these build up and understand what is going on. You didn't get that 'cause chances are your ex is a quiet BPD.

One thing they hate... .not responding to text msgs quickly enough. You mentioned you were texting on the day she left you. Sounds daft but that could have been the final trigger.

[cosmonaut]

Thank you for you r thoughts Cosmonaut, I really appreciate it. I know how you feel and its horrible that you have had to endure this thing.

I have very slight concern about her calling the cops... .I have reason to suspect that she really doesn't want to cause legal problems but DID want to enforce her boundaries as I triggered her. If she wanted to cause problems for me she could have taken a different approach.

I don't have the expectation that she will contact me... .she might just toss it into the trash without reading it or if she reads it, might write it off as me being 'manipulative' or some other thing... .I am SO painted black that I have no idea what it would take for me to be painted white again... .she DID do this on cycles with her friends so who knows.

What is the distinction between a 'trigger' and being 'painted black' ? Do they work in tandem with one another or are they one in the same? Is me as a trigger that extreme where she would call the police? Her behavior almost seems like that of a person that was being threatened with certain violence!

Shaking my head... .confusing. 

Triggering and splitting are two separate concepts, but they are related.  Splitting is a reaction to the triggering.  pwBPD experience extreme emotions, as you know.  These are often because of something that sets them off (triggers them).  It can be something real or something perceived.  Two of the most powerful triggers are abandonment and engulfment.  Invalidation is often very triggering too.  While triggers may sometimes be incorrectly perceived, none-the-less, it is all very real to them, and it can provoke intense emotions.  Overwhelming emotions.  Since pwBPD do not have the ability to self soothe these extreme emotions they react to quiet the emotions in the only ways they know how by utilizing primitive coping mechanisms.  One of these, and a very common one, is splitting (in it's extreme form "painting black".  Splitting allows for the creation of emotional distance.  It's sort of a sour grapes mentality (I don't want you anyway, you are bad).  So, splitting is separate from triggering, but related.

I can very much understand why this is so hard for you JRT.  Anyone abandoned the way in which you were would feel similar.  It is a brutal experience.  I also dealt with abandonment by my ex, but not quite to the level of coldness you have experienced.  I didn't have the cops called on me, and my ex did call me to let me know she was leaving.  There was still nothing I could do to change her mind.  She was triggered, and she was running.  She doesn't know what else to do.  I agree with you that we can have a balanced view of BPD.  We can appreciate that our exes have a serious disorder, but one that isn't their fault.  We can accept that they loved us once, perhaps very sincerely, but it was not a sustainable love.  Their fears, shame, and dyregulated emotions made it impossible.  It's still very hard to deal with emotionally.  Hang in there, my man.  It does get easier.  I'm a year out and it's only been within the last month or two that I've really begun to see acceptance.  I still love my ex.  I still miss her.  But I've accepted that things are just the way they are.  Keep going.  This is hard stuff.

Edit:  Yes, calling the cops inappropriately could very well be splitting at work.  It is a very primitive and destructive coping mechanism.  Please do still take steps to protect yourself.  While this is disordered thinking, it can have real implications for us.

[4Years5Months]

But what causes such a large trigger/split?  I mean, BPDers are constantly reacting to triggers.  My ex would regularly text me and ask if I was mad.  I definitely wasn't, but there was something in how I was speaking (well, texting) her that made her think I was.  Is a breakup/push away a culmination of lots of these little incidents?

Let me explain with an example from my BPDer ex:

She contacted me last month and talked to me for six hours, saying she missed me.  She broke up with me in February and had replaced me with the security guard at her work by early March.  She would have insinuated or attempted a recycle that day we talked - had I not let her know I was seeing someone.  She usually will triangulate me with the replacement until she knows I will definitely take her back, and then drop the replacement, but that "plan" her BPD brain wires her to do was thrown off because I too have moved on.  The reason she contacted me at all was my replacement commented on a photo on HER Facebook of she and I that she still had on there.  Passive aggressive on his part. 

She contacted me to apologize, and that's when we kept talking.  She said she was mad at my replacement for commenting like that, and that they had gotten into a fight over it.  Not once did I ask where he was during our six hour conversation, but he obviously wasn't around since she continuously talked to me almost that entire day.  Curious, I googled his name and found an obituary for his grandfather - and the funeral was the day my ex and I talked, at an out of state location.  Obviously, that's where he was.  And he got into a fight with my ex over his Facebook comment nonsense, and there she was, reaching out to me.  There was anger from the fight they had gotten into, and she was running to me for comfort - probably because he wasn't responding to her - PLUS he was literally physically far away from her.  I get that conversation was an anomaly that day, and given that she has been mostly silent since continues to confirm that.

Now, with ALL THAT SAID... .

She felt abandoned and triggered by my replacement, and reached out to me.  But, she's back with him and (as far as I know) carrying on with the relationship.  Why didn't she break up with him?  If her fear(s) were triggered, why go back to him?  I guess, in a nutshell, why are sometimes the triggers not as severe?  Was it because it wasn't a big enough fight/disagreement for her to fear the abandonment/leaving of him?  Or will it take several of these moments for her to consider pushing him away?

Sorry that's so wordy, but my ex is a quiet/waif BPDer like JRT's and I think we both feel the same way - how can WE trigger so heavily that a breakup/painted black scenario ensues, but she can fight with a replacement and it's not as severe?

[JRT]

Thank you very warmly for your thoughts Cosmonaut as always. Its always good to be reminded of things that I've read before or know and also to break new ground on understanding.

I think that I am good and that life is moving forward. My strategy has been to continue to date, do the things that I love doing and enjoy life. I hope that I might meet someone that I can share my life with along they way. If my ex contacts me, I owe her at least a conversation but that's really my only expectation and vision for the future with her. Like you, I love her and miss her despite all of the, frankly, horrible things that she has done. But I realize that its her disorder, and not a conscious decision on her part. I know that she is suffering right now and every day (and she probably was when she was with me believing that I would abandon her, but she never uttered a word about it) and this hurts me as well.

It all still astounds me

[JRT]

But what causes such a large trigger/split?  I mean, BPDers are constantly reacting to triggers.  My ex would regularly text me and ask if I was mad.  I definitely wasn't, but there was something in how I was speaking (well, texting) her that made her think I was.  Is a breakup/push away a culmination of lots of these little incidents?

Let me explain with an example from my BPDer ex:

She contacted me last month and talked to me for six hours, saying she missed me.  She broke up with me in February and had replaced me with the security guard at her work by early March.  She would have insinuated or attempted a recycle that day we talked - had I not let her know I was seeing someone.  She usually will triangulate me with the replacement until she knows I will definitely take her back, and then drop the replacement, but that "plan" her BPD brain wires her to do was thrown off because I too have moved on.  The reason she contacted me at all was my replacement commented on a photo on HER Facebook of she and I that she still had on there.  Passive aggressive on his part. 

She contacted me to apologize, and that's when we kept talking.  She said she was mad at my replacement for commenting like that, and that they had gotten into a fight over it.  Not once did I ask where he was during our six hour conversation, but he obviously wasn't around since she continuously talked to me almost that entire day.  Curious, I googled his name and found an obituary for his grandfather - and the funeral was the day my ex and I talked, at an out of state location.  Obviously, that's where he was.  And he got into a fight with my ex over his Facebook comment nonsense, and there she was, reaching out to me.  There was anger from the fight they had gotten into, and she was running to me for comfort - probably because he wasn't responding to her - PLUS he was literally physically far away from her.  I get that conversation was an anomaly that day, and given that she has been mostly silent since continues to confirm that.

Now, with ALL THAT SAID... .

She felt abandoned and triggered by my replacement, and reached out to me.  But, she's back with him and (as far as I know) carrying on with the relationship.  Why didn't she break up with him?  If her fear(s) were triggered, why go back to him?  I guess, in a nutshell, why are sometimes the triggers not as severe?  Was it because it wasn't a big enough fight/disagreement for her to fear the abandonment/leaving of him?  Or will it take several of these moments for her to consider pushing him away?

Sorry that's so wordy, but my ex is a quiet/waif BPDer like JRT's and I think we both feel the same way - how can WE trigger so heavily that a breakup/painted black scenario ensues, but she can fight with a replacement and it's not as severe?

Excellent post! Great questions... .and cool sleuth work!

[DyingLove]

JRT, I am another person on this board who was not raged at, physically abused, or cheated upon. I used to think my ex must have been misdiagnosed, because she doesn't do those things. My ex is a quiet, emotionally controlled person who tries to be ethical in her treatment of people. Her abuse of me consisted mostly of sudden unexpected withdrawals and abandonments of me and our relationship. I have a lot of the same feelings towards her that you express here towards your ex. I worry about her quite a bit, as she is emotionally vulnerable and does not have good coping mechanisms. I have reached out to her several times in the past month to ask if she is okay.

The problem I see with continuing to caretake our exes: we are extending ourselves to them based on what we imagine they feel, want or need from us. We might make mistakes in thinking that our exes respond to separations the same way we do, or that they are as vulnerable now as we have seen them be during the relationship. Actually, during and after breakups most of them seem to handle their feelings via denial, avoidance, numbing  themselves, distracting themselves, and hooking with new suppliers. I think that my ex has felt stronger and more whole sometimes after a breakup, like a teenager who has revolted against the parents and broken free.

My impression of my ex and of the other ex partners described on this board is that they are very proactive and exceptionally capable when it comes to arranging for new suppliers of emotional support. I think they probably would be very capable of contacting us if they really felt like doing so. While it is true that they suffer from shame and fears of rejection, none of their mind states are stable, and they act impulsively on feelings of the moment. One would guess that if they really want to contact us, the impulse would hit them and they would act on it, at least occasionally.

I completely identify with the your felt need to reach out to your ex, and as I said, I have done so with mine. I think, however, that the outreach was partly because I still want to show love to her. My attachment to her is still alive, even if hers to me is not. Unfortunately, giving love from my side isn't enough to make a relationship.

Dang, sound so much like mine. Very sad and there is nothing I can do about it.

[apollotech]

"She felt abandoned and triggered by my replacement, and reached out to me.  But, she's back with him and (as far as I know) carrying on with the relationship.  Why didn't she break up with him?  If her fear(s) were triggered, why go back to him?  I guess, in a nutshell, why are sometimes the triggers not as severe?"

4Years,

To me, that doesn't sound like contact due to fear of abandonment. Where was her extreme emotional response? Where were you sootheing her? That sounds more like contact due to a possible re-engagement. Attempted triangulation? Possibly. Was she the victim? Did you have to rescue her?

Quite possibly the new guy may not be able to trigger her. He may not be close enough to her to see the extreme BPD side of her. To become a trigger requires a deep attachment. During your relationship with her, while y'all were split, could those replacements trigger her? Did you actually see/talk to her while she was triggered by one of them? Just because they are with someone doesn't equate to a deep attachment with that someone (neediness perhaps? lonely? aloneness? boredom?).

Long story short, and tragic as well, if a pwBPD doesn't deeply care for you, you cannot trigger them. Only we, the triggers, get to experience the extreme emotional responses/behaviors that drive us to these boards in search of answers. Although you might not like to be (or believe that you were, due to her behaviors), you were/are special to her. Unfortunately for y'all, she proved just how special you were/are to her---she coped with the strong emotions that you triggered in her by destroying the relationship between y'all.

[4Years5Months]

"She felt abandoned and triggered by my replacement, and reached out to me.  But, she's back with him and (as far as I know) carrying on with the relationship.  Why didn't she break up with him?  If her fear(s) were triggered, why go back to him?  I guess, in a nutshell, why are sometimes the triggers not as severe?"

4Years,

To me, that doesn't sound like contact due to fear of abandonment. Where was her extreme emotional response? Where were you sootheing her? That sounds more like contact due to a possible re-engagement. Attempted triangulation? Possibly. Was she the victim? Did you have to rescue her?

Quite possibly the new guy may not be able to trigger her. He may not be close enough to her to see the extreme BPD side of her. To become a trigger requires a deep attachment. During your relationship with her, while y'all were split, could those replacements trigger her? Did you actually see/talk to her while she was triggered by one of them? Just because they are with someone doesn't equate to a deep attachment with that someone (neediness perhaps? lonely? aloneness? boredom?).

Long story short, and tragic as well, if a pwBPD doesn't deeply care for you, you cannot trigger them. Only we, the triggers, get to experience the extreme emotional responses/behaviors that drive us to these boards in search of answers. Although you might not like to be (or believe that you were, due to her behaviors), you were/are special to her.

After my ex apologized for my replacement's behavior.  She then said "I hope we can be friends sometime.  Sorry if that's inappropriate."  I responded that I hoped that would be the case, too, and also that I didn't hate her despite everything, and off we went.  Given that a month earlier she was QUITE short with me when I broke NC and tried to talk to her, I kept trying to wrap up the conversation, but she kept talking and asking questions.

The conversation was fun and of the catching up variety.  Inevitably, she asked me if I was seeing someone, and I responded yes, I was, and told her who it was (a girl I worked with years ago, my ex met her ONCE at a mutual night out with co-workers) and she became quite snippy, saying "you sure do like dating people you have known forever" (incredibly ironic considering my replacement is the security guard she has worked with for the last 8 months) and I quickly changed the subject, and asked about how her job was going.  Suddenly, she couldn't stop talking about how awful work was and how she is applying for jobs in New York, and if she gets one, she's moving there... .with my replacement, who she has been dating a month.  She continued to pepper me with jabs about my new girl ("How long have you been dating?"  "Well, maybe she's the one, then.  I've always said you should be with someone who is happy and established." and I brought everything to a screeching halt as I didn't like where the convo was going.  That's when she love bombed me with 30 messages.

I wrote about the convo here: 

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=275093.0;all

And also created a topic about why does she get so upset that I'm seeing someone when she replaced me?: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=276234.0;all

Anyway, at no point was I put in a position to "rescue" her as the boundary was pretty much established when I told her I was dating someone - as was my intention.  She definitely played the victim - hates her job, wants to move away, even though she was promoted and given a raise, she still isn't making enough money, blah blah blah.  She talked about rarely feeling joy anymore as she was love bombing me and said I was the only person who has a piece of her heart.  But at no point was any kind of recycle attempt made - only saying she wanted to be friends, but it was "too hard" to talk to me right now.  I get it.  I'm currently a trigger as I'm unavailable to her and that boundary is in place.  But what you are saying apollo is that she isn't close enough to the replacement yet to be "triggered?"  She contacted ME.   

My feeling was = His immature comment on Facebook + They fight about it + He's out of town for the funeral = Her contacting me.  There were several things that led her to do it - she didn't just contact me out of the blue, she was triggered, or at least LED to contact me by the factors with him, I believe.  Was it possibly that at that moment, that day, that she couldn't talk to or be with him, so she looked elsewhere.  Wow, if it's THAT easy and quick for her to look for emotional supply... .

I was also replaced in the fall of 2013 with a college classmate of hers that she had known for six days.  After about three weeks of NC, I texted her, and within a week she was sleeping with me again.  She triangulated me and the college replacement for another month before deciding to come back to me and only me.  What was her prevailing "fear" while dating him?  She repeatedly said she didn't know if he would want to stay with her after the semester ended, that he had suggested "I don't want to end up hurting you."  BOOM.  I was back in the picture.  This current replacement seems to be a lapdog (his wife just divorced him) so yeah, I can see her not easily detaching from him.  But... .she talked to me for six hours!  But rarely since then.

What led her to contact me and talk to me for six hours, and give me such significant love bombing to let me know that she cries when she thinks of me and has to stop herself daily from texting me, because it's not appropriate?  What happened with my replacement to put her in that place, emotionally?  And to go back to my original question... .if she was at that place, why did she go back to him?

To bring it back to JRT's original post and questions - my ex has (A) NEVER slammed the door completely shut on me, even during push away phases, even when she wants NC - it's always that we can't talk "right now" - that "hopefully" we can be friends "someday."  She also has never (B) done anything outlandish to make me say "Yep - crazy!"  JRT, your ex calling the cops would be a definite final nail in the coffin for me.  I mean, my ex has very delicately kept me on the hook, even now, but if she did something like that, I would never want to talk to her again.  If she does that, just imagine what she may do in the future if you ever reengaged her.  I think you and I should both tread very lightly, and if we communicate with our exes in the future, it should be with a definite friend boundary in place.  And if she can't understand that, then my ex doesn't need to be in my life.

[apollotech]

"She talked about rarely feeling joy anymore as she was love bombing me and said I was the only person who has a piece of her heart.  But at no point was any kind of recycle attempt made - only saying she wanted to be friends, but it was "too hard" to talk to me right now.  I get it.  I'm currently a trigger as I'm unavailable to her and that boundary is in place."

4Years,

That was the lead in for the recycle attempt; you just rebuffed it because of your boundary (You didn't take the bait and agree to bring joy back into her life.). I still don't see where you're triggering her. It looks to me as if you didn't take the bait so she left. I wasn't there of course, so I didn't experience her emotional responses during the exchange, but it seems like y'all had a very pleasant conversation. That seems to be just the opposite of what's had with a pwBPD that's been triggered.

And yes, just because she is with "new guy" doesn't mean that she is deeply attached to him. He may be just that, emotional supply, nothing more. Yes, it is that easy. A pwBPD can leave someone that they were with for the past thirty years and marry a stranger the following day. To never be alone is survival for them.

[dobie]

JRT, I am another person on this board who was not raged at, physically abused, or cheated upon. I used to think my ex must have been misdiagnosed, because she doesn't do those things. My ex is a quiet, emotionally controlled person who tries to be ethical in her treatment of people. Her abuse of me consisted mostly of sudden unexpected withdrawals and abandonments of me and our relationship. I have a lot of the same feelings towards her that you express here towards your ex. I worry about her quite a bit, as she is emotionally vulnerable and does not have good coping mechanisms. I have reached out to her several times in the past month to ask if she is okay.

The problem I see with continuing to caretake our exes: we are extending ourselves to them based on what we imagine they feel, want or need from us. We might make mistakes in thinking that our exes respond to separations the same way we do, or that they are as vulnerable now as we have seen them be during the relationship. Actually, during and after breakups most of them seem to handle their feelings via denial, avoidance, numbing  themselves, distracting themselves, and hooking with new suppliers. I think that my ex has felt stronger and more whole sometimes after a breakup, like a teenager who has revolted against the parents and broken free.

My impression of my ex and of the other ex partners described on this board is that they are very proactive and exceptionally capable when it comes to arranging for new suppliers of emotional support. I think they probably would be very capable of contacting us if they really felt like doing so. While it is true that they suffer from shame and fears of rejection, none of their mind states are stable, and they act impulsively on feelings of the moment. One would guess that if they really want to contact us, the impulse would hit them and they would act on it, at least occasionally.

I completely identify with the your felt need to reach out to your ex, and as I said, I have done so with mine. I think, however, that the outreach was partly because I still want to show love to her. My attachment to her is still alive, even if hers to me is not. Unfortunately, giving love from my side isn't enough to make a relationship.

This ^^ sadly jrt that's where I'm at with mine  , I understand why you want to reach h out jrt but honestly I think their silence speaks volumes as hard as hell as that feels if they want us they won't be shy in coming forward even under a pretext .

Mine has holidays and trips planned new friends I don't know if she has a new bf but she has all the toys she needs at the moment

[JRT]

JRT, I am another person on this board who was not raged at, physically abused, or cheated upon. I used to think my ex must have been misdiagnosed, because she doesn't do those things. My ex is a quiet, emotionally controlled person who tries to be ethical in her treatment of people. Her abuse of me consisted mostly of sudden unexpected withdrawals and abandonments of me and our relationship. I have a lot of the same feelings towards her that you express here towards your ex. I worry about her quite a bit, as she is emotionally vulnerable and does not have good coping mechanisms. I have reached out to her several times in the past month to ask if she is okay.

The problem I see with continuing to caretake our exes: we are extending ourselves to them based on what we imagine they feel, want or need from us. We might make mistakes in thinking that our exes respond to separations the same way we do, or that they are as vulnerable now as we have seen them be during the relationship. Actually, during and after breakups most of them seem to handle their feelings via denial, avoidance, numbing  themselves, distracting themselves, and hooking with new suppliers. I think that my ex has felt stronger and more whole sometimes after a breakup, like a teenager who has revolted against the parents and broken free.

My impression of my ex and of the other ex partners described on this board is that they are very proactive and exceptionally capable when it comes to arranging for new suppliers of emotional support. I think they probably would be very capable of contacting us if they really felt like doing so. While it is true that they suffer from shame and fears of rejection, none of their mind states are stable, and they act impulsively on feelings of the moment. One would guess that if they really want to contact us, the impulse would hit them and they would act on it, at least occasionally.

I completely identify with the your felt need to reach out to your ex, and as I said, I have done so with mine. I think, however, that the outreach was partly because I still want to show love to her. My attachment to her is still alive, even if hers to me is not. Unfortunately, giving love from my side isn't enough to make a relationship.

This ^^ sadly jrt that's where I'm at with mine  , I understand why you want to reach h out jrt but honestly I think their silence speaks volumes as hard as hell as that feels if they want us they won't be shy in coming forward even under a pretext .

Mine has holidays and trips planned new friends I don't know if she has a new bf but she has all the toys she needs at the moment

Sure... .BPD's are very adept at doing this, finding replacements and fulfilling their needs. But as a spectrum disorder, they are all different. Mine, apparently has gained a LOT of weight - a sign of depression and how she is coping. This alone has really changed my dynamic when I have considered the the aftermath.

There are many things about mine that are simply not typical to the BPD experience that I see here. Her weight gain and some other subtle signs that she is not coping very well forces me to think and make connections. I see now that she has cycled this way in the past. After a b/u, she withdraws in to an extreme; she gains weight, cuts off her friends and family and doesn't pursue a replacement (her son is her supply anyway, she doesn't need one) - she becomes a hermit in effect. I really had to piece all of this together from things that I saw that she was especially reluctant to explain. Now that I think of it, whenever she was reluctant to explain anything, it was a manifestation of her condition.

I don't know how this affects me or my situation with her if at all... .I guess that it helps to know what your are dealing with and how the wheels fell off of the bus and why. Its also interesting to note that it is easy to consider all BPD's through the prism of the 'classic' raging/lying/cheating BPD. But I think that in my case I might have a bit of an anomaly that I was with. It doesn't make her less BPD nor does it make her actions less painful. But it does make me wonder what she was thinking then and what she is thinking now.

I have been reading some posts from BPD sufferers on another forum. I tell you that these accounts have been gut wrenching and much different from the emotions that I feel when I read posts here. I have developed a degree of sympathy (tempered against their hurtful nature) for pwBPD. Its really horrible to read what they think of themselves and what they do to self-punish and destroy. The pain to them is real and it NEVER goes away. It breaks my heart to know that my ex suffers this way (despite realizing what she has done to me and my daughter).

[FannyB]

JRT

My ex was also a 'quiet borderline'. When I asked her why her previous relationships had broken down she said that they did things to upset her which she put in a mental 'filing cabinet'. When the filing cabinet filled up, she dumped them. Half of her exes hated her guts, whilst the other half desperately wanted her back. I guess that's the sort of extreme reaction that ensues when you've been dumped and didn't see it coming. 

[JRT]

Thanks for sharing Fanny

Mine had 4 total including me (I was the longest at 2 years... .she was married for only 8 months). As far as I know she was not in contact with 2 of the three while the third - to whom she was married - acted like a surrogate to her son so she got along with.

You can tell a LOT about a person by knowing what sort of residual r/s they have with former romantic partners. I knew a bit but violated this idiom by not pressing her to find out more. I know that in the case of the other two; she was a 'victim' of theirs and she had no idea where they were and what they were doing. THAT in and if itself say a lot or at least begs some questions. The fact that she is a 45 year old woman and has had only 4 serious r/s begs more questions.

[BlackHoleSun]

Thanks for sharing Fanny

Mine had 4 total including me (I was the longest at 2 years... .she was married for only 8 months). As far as I know she was not in contact with 2 of the three while the third - to whom she was married - acted like a surrogate to her son so she got along with.

You can tell a LOT about a person by knowing what sort of residual r/s they have with former romantic partners. I knew a bit but violated this idiom by not pressing her to find out more. I know that in the case of the other two; she was a 'victim' of theirs and she had no idea where they were and what they were doing. THAT in and if itself say a lot or at least begs some questions. The fact that she is a 45 year old woman and has had only 4 serious r/s begs more questions.

Fanny is spot on! Its exactly what I've been describing to you. Quiet Borderlines internalise everything. It builds up then... .BOOM! They're gone. The problem is you never really see the reality, just the illusion. With a borderline that "acts out" you know about all the dysfunctional stuff, for the most part its all there out in the open.

You're still buying into that illusion though JRT! How do you know about her past relationships and stuff? Answer... .she told you! They tell you whatever you want to hear and its rarely the truth!

Look at it this way... .did you ever think the person you were with was capable of vanishing on you or your daughter in the blink of an eye? Did you ever think the person you were with was capable of calling the cops on you? Answer... .no. Ya see ya didn't know the person at all. As I said, if she was BPD she would have lied, manipulated, attempted to control you and more than likely cheated too. Its par for the course.

[JRT]

Thanks again for your post Fanny

[ShadowIntheNight]

Thanks for sharing Fanny

Mine had 4 total including me (I was the longest at 2 years... .she was married for only 8 months). As far as I know she was not in contact with 2 of the three while the third - to whom she was married - acted like a surrogate to her son so she got along with.

You can tell a LOT about a person by knowing what sort of residual r/s they have with former romantic partners. I knew a bit but violated this idiom by not pressing her to find out more. I know that in the case of the other two; she was a 'victim' of theirs and she had no idea where they were and what they were doing. THAT in and if itself say a lot or at least begs some questions. The fact that she is a 45 year old woman and has had only 4 serious r/s begs more questions.

Fanny is spot on! Its exactly what I've been describing to you. Quiet Borderlines internalise everything. It builds up then... .BOOM! They're gone. The problem is you never really see the reality, just the illusion. With a borderline that "acts out" you know about all the dysfunctional stuff, for the most part its all there out in the open.

You're still buying into that illusion though JRT! How do you know about her past relationships and stuff? Answer... .she told you! They tell you whatever you want to hear and its rarely the truth!

Look at it this way... .did you ever think the person you were with was capable of vanishing on you or your daughter in the blink of an eye? Did you ever think the person you were with was capable of calling the cops on you? Answer... .no. Ya see ya didn't know the person at all. As I said, if she was BPD she would have lied, manipulated, attempted to control you and more than likely cheated too. Its par for the course.

My ex vanished out of nowhere too. Not in the manner as JRT's, mine faded away. First emails lessened, then vanished, then we spoke on the phone less, the the texting ended, finally I stopped hearing anything from her, til she sent me a typed note in a birthday card saying she had been altered by a court case. Not that I was terrible that she couldn't handle the fighting, that we weren't compatible. just that her life had been altered. I don't know to this day what that means or why she left.

Did I expect this? No. DId I expect it from her? No. Would I have expected it from her? No. I knew my ex for 10 years. She never once employed these tactics with me or anyone, friends or ex's. So how can it be said I didn't know her? When she divorced her husband, she didn't use these tactics. Supposedly her only ex bf besides him she was friends with and in contact with. But that didn't happen until we were together about 4 or 5 years.

But to say I didn't know my ex? I knew her better than anyone. And now that I've discovered that she has BPD traits and tendencies I know for sure I know her better than anyone.

A person can't know something about someone unless they've experienced the behavior from them either firsthand or having been told about it. Why would JRT expect his ex to leave the way she did? Why would he expect her to hurt his daughter as well? Unless she had done it before or told him she had done it before, it wouldn't be something to even cross his mind in conscious thought. I expect that he wouldn't have been in a relationship with her if she had exhibited these behaviors. I bet he finds out now though.

As for me, 10 years is a long time to say I never really knew my ex. It's insulting and makes people who've had Longterm relationships feel as if they are stupid and somehow didn't know someone they had entrusted their lives to. I'm not stupid. I didn't "see what I wanted to see." My ex employed a behavior she had never used nor mentioned before in our long term relationship to bolt. Not leave, but bolt. Why, I can't tell you. She has never said.

My exgf is a therapist. I suspect she got the idea listening to the college aged kids she counsels on a daily basis. She is 46. Her actions were remarkably immature and hurtful. I can assure you if she had been that way 10 years ago, I would not be responding to this post today.  Personally, I think that if they get triggered by something, they will employ whatever means they can to leave. And it doesn't matter how hurtful it is

And I am almost absolutely sure she hasn't told whomever she's with now about our 10 year relationship and how she ended it. Why would she make herself look like that kind of person?So see, whomever she is with now has no idea of this side of her. And I was there at her divorce from her exH so I know how she was at the end of that relationship. She didn't behave in any way that I've mentioned here toward me. I don't feel special. I can tell you.

Presuming that ALL BPD's employ textbook tactics is a wrong assumption. I suspect that both mine and JRT's ex's might be so surprised by their own actions last year, that their guilt and possible shame keep them from reaching out, at least directly. He and I both have recieved questionable cyber tactics that lead us both to suspect our ex's are behind them.

My ex wasn't a waif like JRT's. She had a fiery temper that we both put down to her being Hispanic. She said as much. We talked about everything. We had a very deep and loving relationship. If anything was bothering her, she spoke to me at length about it. But I can tell you now, that if I told her she might have BPD tendencies, she would let me have it full force. She doesn't think there's anything wrong with her emotionally. I didn't either, until last year. That was after 10 years of knowing one another though.

In both our cases our relationships were low-conflict, loving, forward-moving. And in both cases, something set them both off and they bolted in extreme fashion. Doesn't mean we didn't know them. It means we didn't know about BPd and the consequences of that disorder.