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Author Topic: Wouldn't you just rather get the truth told to you?  (Read 598 times)
valet
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« on: June 13, 2015, 04:17:42 PM »

This is frustration with the community.

We are all disturbed in our own way from our relationships, of course, but I often see more hate than empathy. The members that can be trusted here do a great job empathizing. Who we are we aiming this hate at though?

Are we aiming it ourselves, or at the foreign concepts that we have built to believe in things?
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2015, 04:25:27 PM »

I think some is aimed at ourselves and some is because we have strong morales and the fact that these have been violated disgusts us.

I know that a lot of my anger was due to my dented ego. That i was taken in and conned. I also know that some of it was disgust that people could treat others so callously.
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2015, 04:31:09 PM »

I think some is aimed at ourselves and some is because we have strong morales and the fact that these have been violated disgusts us.

I know that a lot of my anger was due to my dented ego. That i was taken in and conned. I also know that some of it was disgust that people could treat others so callously.

Why were you disgusted though, and what did that feeling lead you to?

Negativity, I would guess, then a slow drip toward positivity.

But maybe the question that I need to answer is 'What is loss?'.
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2015, 04:41:49 PM »

Yes, it's interesting, and shocking really, at least for me, how far down the rabbit hole we can go in these relationships, how lost in the fog we can get, how much abuse and disrespect we can tolerate and not do anything about it, until finally the pain of staying becomes greater than the pain of leaving and we bail, or to add insult to injury, our exes leave us for someone else.  It's so not fair we scream!  And it isn't, for the borderline or for us, and most of us haven't been enmeshed with mental illness before, not used to walking on eggshells, tense all the time, confused and off balance.  And then when it ends and we get some distance?  The fog starts to clear and we start to feel all the things we were protecting ourselves against in the relationship, normal, healthy responses to abuse and disrespect.  Anger is a phase of grieving and detachment, anger at the evil borderline, anger at ourselves, anger at everything.  And it's interesting to see people work through all of that, first the denial, then the anger, then the depression, and finally the acceptance, or a flip-flopping between them for a while.  And it's cool how we can then forgive ourselves first, and the memories become benign, and the empathy and compassion can show up, maybe first for ourselves, then for our exes, who for the most part walk a very tough road, one that may never get smoother, where we can become grateful for lessons learned and wiser, as we set about creating a future of our own design.  And it takes what it takes, helpful to accept folks where they are as they work through the process and offer learned wisdom if they ask, we're all in this together and it's a brand new day.
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2015, 04:49:26 PM »

The truth changes with your perceptions. My truth when my ex left me was very different to my truth and perception today. Had someone told me this heartbreak and unending pain was a mirror reflecting some element of my childhood in those first few weeks or months, I'd have wished to break their face.

Hurt people need black and white thinking at that stage, it's kill or cure. We can only get into shades of grey later down the line. It's very hard to read some of the comments as the pain spills off the screen, at some point we either turn the critical gaze into ourselves and heal the wound that causes us to tolerate BPD abuses in the first place or we go off and have another dysfunctional relationship. I'm too old to keep getting this wrong so I had/have to heal.

Anyway, what do they say, it's not the destination that counts or will bring you to your healing; it's the climb. And we can't rob others of their climb we can just point in the general direction.
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2015, 05:27:37 PM »

Had someone told me this heartbreak and unending pain was a mirror reflecting some element of my childhood in those first few weeks or months, I'd have wished to break their face.

at some point we either turn the critical gaze into ourselves and heal the wound that causes us to tolerate BPD abuses in the first place or we go off and have another dysfunctional relationship.

Yes, that can be the hardest part of detaching and healing, it was for me, the inner searching into why I got so embroiled in a clearly unhealthy situation to begin with, and why it started feeling like an addiction I was jonesing for when the idealization was withdrawn.  The conditions that created the initial infatuation and the ensuing longing were there long before I met her, and that crafty borderline awakened them in me in such a way that made them obvious, and for that I'm grateful, and no pain no gain doesn't always apply, but it sure did here.
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2015, 06:11:56 PM »

I think some is aimed at ourselves and some is because we have strong morales and the fact that these have been violated disgusts us.

I know that a lot of my anger was due to my dented ego. That i was taken in and conned. I also know that some of it was disgust that people could treat others so callously.

Exactly. ... .and I knew better. Next time, listen to that inner voice.
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2015, 08:08:37 PM »

it frustrates me too but thats mainly just because i dont much relate. ive tried to accept and understand that for as much as we have in common, we are all approaching recovery in different ways. the wounds differ and the extent of them differ. our experiences differ. our body/brain chemistry differs. as such, our approach in helping should try to adapt to those many different ways, i think. a few examples i try to remind myself of:

the five stages of grief. as we know, everyone may experience this very differently. cycling back and forth, going out of order, staying in one place, etc. anger is a stage of grief. it too, will be experienced differently.

we are told pwBPD arent receptive to similar kinds of information. why should nons be any different?

knowledge of BPD is very useful, and its validating. without it, i think my recovery would have looked a lot like painting my ex black and going from there. we dont all process the "knowledge of BPD" in the same way and its impact on our grief process may differ greatly.

to answer the question that is the title of your thread, it depends. not if the person telling me the "truth" was projecting their experience or feelings on me. not if i didnt trust the person, or the forum, yet. not if i couldnt relate to the person and vice versa. speaking personally, i often find i cant stand "blunt" people or who consider themselves blunt, and think theyre offering some "hard truth" prescription. so i sure as heck wouldnt be receptive to that approach.
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2015, 08:43:36 PM »

I know that the person is disordered... .but they harmed me terribly emotionally... .I am talking serious emotional damage. I am angry about it. I was deceived, betrayed and abandoned and then acted out on repeatedly in a abusive attacking manner by someone that I deeply cared for. It did a number on me.  I was a trusting moral guy... that experience turned me on my head.  I may never trust again.  I am pissed about it. I have empathy for the person that treated me that way... .

I think that there is truth to the observations that we were angry at ourselves, too. I have been able to forgive myself for making that choice, as the signs were there in the beginning if I looked closely, but I ignored them and dove in head-first anyway.

Detaching from a BPD is brutal... .isn't it?
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2015, 09:35:38 PM »

I was a trusting moral guy... that experience turned me on my head.  I may never trust again.  I am pissed about it.

I have been able to forgive myself for making that choice, as the signs were there in the beginning if I looked closely, but I ignored them and dove in head-first anyway.

So isn't that the answer Infrared?  Certainly don't ignore again, but also choose to trust someone you're not ignoring once they prove themselves worthy of that trust?
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2015, 10:18:15 PM »

I was a trusting moral guy... that experience turned me on my head.  I may never trust again.  I am pissed about it.

I have been able to forgive myself for making that choice, as the signs were there in the beginning if I looked closely, but I ignored them and dove in head-first anyway.

So isn't that the answer Infrared?  Certainly don't ignore again, but also choose to trust someone you're not ignoring once they prove themselves worthy of that trust?

That is the perfect answer on paper. I can intellectually grasp that... .but my heart and my soul haven't read that page. I actually recoil from women. Physically recoil. I was not like that before this relationship. I did not do this to myself.  My ex has done the same loop on all the men she has been with. She is not healthy... .I have a sadness for her that she can't really even love herself... .That is my truth. There are lots of other things in life for me to concentrate on... .I am slowly just letting that part of life disappear.  It's a lot calmer and a lot safer.
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2015, 10:28:57 PM »

I was a trusting moral guy... that experience turned me on my head.  I may never trust again.  I am pissed about it.

I have been able to forgive myself for making that choice, as the signs were there in the beginning if I looked closely, but I ignored them and dove in head-first anyway.

So isn't that the answer Infrared?  Certainly don't ignore again, but also choose to trust someone you're not ignoring once they prove themselves worthy of that trust?

That is the perfect answer on paper. I can intellectually grasp that... .but my heart and my soul haven't read that page. I actually recoil from women. Physically recoil. I was not like that before this relationship. I did not do this to myself.  My ex has done the same loop on all the men she has been with. She is not healthy... .I have a sadness for her that she can't really even love herself... .That is my truth. There are lots of other things in life for me to concentrate on... .I am slowly just letting that part of life disappear.  It's a lot calmer and a lot safer.

Yeah, I get it Infrared, there's no way in hell I'm going down that path again, and how do you know?  What I've been working on lately is holding my center, staying centered, when I talk to people, and spending time with a lot of women with zero expectations just to practice.  It's interesting with single women, when I show zero interest beyond a conversation they seem to get curious, like what's up with this guy, most guys try to hit on me all the time?  And then she'll start doing all the talking and I can really listen, intensely listen, not necessarily for red flags, lacing up my shoes ready to run, just really listen to who she's showing me she is.  The change is I didn't do that with my ex, or several previous gf's for that matter, I just got caught up in the chemistry and sexual tension and didn't find out who she really was until much later.  That's new for me, refreshing, calmer as you say, and safer hopefully, and since I'm not bound to do anything I don't want to do when I'm staying centered, I think I'm on to something.  We'll see, but it feels right for now.
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2015, 11:13:36 PM »

I was a trusting moral guy... that experience turned me on my head.  I may never trust again.  I am pissed about it.

I have been able to forgive myself for making that choice, as the signs were there in the beginning if I looked closely, but I ignored them and dove in head-first anyway.

So isn't that the answer Infrared?  Certainly don't ignore again, but also choose to trust someone you're not ignoring once they prove themselves worthy of that trust?

That is the perfect answer on paper. I can intellectually grasp that... .but my heart and my soul haven't read that page. I actually recoil from women. Physically recoil. I was not like that before this relationship. I did not do this to myself.  My ex has done the same loop on all the men she has been with. She is not healthy... .I have a sadness for her that she can't really even love herself... .That is my truth. There are lots of other things in life for me to concentrate on... .I am slowly just letting that part of life disappear.  It's a lot calmer and a lot safer.

Yeah, I get it Infrared, there's no way in hell I'm going down that path again, and how do you know?  What I've been working on lately is holding my center, staying centered, when I talk to people, and spending time with a lot of women with zero expectations just to practice.  It's interesting with single women, when I show zero interest beyond a conversation they seem to get curious, like what's up with this guy, most guys try to hit on me all the time?  And then she'll start doing all the talking and I can really listen, intensely listen, not necessarily for red flags, lacing up my shoes ready to run, just really listen to who she's showing me she is.  The change is I didn't do that with my ex, or several previous gf's for that matter, I just got caught up in the chemistry and sexual tension and didn't find out who she really was until much later.  That's new for me, refreshing, calmer as you say, and safer hopefully, and since I'm not bound to do anything I don't want to do when I'm staying centered, I think I'm on to something.  We'll see, but it feels right for now.

You sound as though you are moving along in a healthy way, after being spit out of the tribune of BPD. Just keep moving forward. You just gave me a morsel of hope!
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2015, 01:39:42 AM »

I think a damaged ego is the problem but ego is based on a variety of beliefs and influences. My Ego is mainly based on morals that I still believe in and uphold today. And of course a part of my ego was influenced by my early life experiences, and this is the bit that was vulnerable to her abuse. My morals haven't changed as a result of my experiences but the effects of my early life experiences have been stripped and analysed so that I don't make the same mistakes again.

Even after many years I still find myself amazed at what happened and the things that have transpired since. Despite my improved knowledge of her behaviour and mine I still cant believe what has happened. I don't think this will ever subside despite my life moving on. Im angry at myself for being vulnerable to her abuse. For believing that she was genuine. It does change your belief in trusting people. And equally im angry at her for thinking she can just walk away from the damage and pain she caused without the slightest bit of guilt. You have to be a special kind of ***k up to do that.
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2015, 06:06:46 AM »

Good comments all around.

I'm about 5 months out, and the last couple of weeks I have found myself feeling very angry. More angry than I have throughout this entire process so far.

I try not to project this anger onto others, but it is becoming more and more difficult. I have been saying things on this board from a place of non-empathy. A place that is unproductive for myself and unproductive for others.

I think, however, that even though I say that I have forgiven my ex, that I was bottling that anger, and now it is starting to seep through the cracks and manifest itself.

I'm not sure though. It is like I need something to hate right now, an object or person, but I can not reasonably allow myself to be angry at someone for choices that they have made. I am trying to skip straight to acceptance when it might be best to actually work toward it.

EDIT:

And to add to this, my ex texted and called me to ask if I was ok last night. I haven't responded, but I think I'll send her a message answering her question. And maybe, just maybe, this might be the first step that I have to take to rebuild my trust in her.

I went on a pretty long Twitter rant (out of character for me), just kind of calling her out in a very passive-aggressive, non-specific way (again, out of character). I did this because I find that more than anything I hate the disorder. I hate the hell out of it, what it has done to me and what it has done to her. This is something that I thought I had worked through, but it appears be my behavior that I was wrong and need to take a step back.
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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2015, 06:36:17 AM »

Good comments all around.

I'm about 5 months out, and the last couple of weeks I have found myself feeling very angry. More angry than I have throughout this entire process so far.

I try not to project this anger onto others, but it is becoming more and more difficult. I have been saying things on this board from a place of non-empathy. A place that is unproductive for myself and unproductive for others.

I think, however, that even though I say that I have forgiven my ex, that I was bottling that anger, and now it is starting to seep through the cracks and manifest itself.

I'm not sure though. It is like I need something to hate right now, an object or person, but I can not reasonably allow myself to be angry at someone for choices that they have made. I am trying to skip straight to acceptance when it might be best to actually work toward it.

EDIT:

And to add to this, my ex texted and called me to ask if I was ok last night. I haven't responded, but I think I'll send her a message answering her question. And maybe, just maybe, this might be the first step that I have to take to rebuild my trust in her.

I went on a pretty long Twitter rant (out of character for me), just kind of calling her out in a very passive-aggressive, non-specific way (again, out of character). I did this because I find that more than anything I hate the disorder. I hate the hell out of it, what it has done to me and what it has done to her. This is something that I thought I had worked through, but it appears be my behavior that I was wrong and need to take a step back.

I have really struggled with the forgiveness part. Especially when years later she still performs whacky, childish things in public? There was never any remorse or repentance... .none. She just attached to someone else then disposed of me.  (I thought we were so close to one another?). It was insanely abrupt and so, so ice cold.

In therapy I was able to see my part in it. See that I walked right into a relationship with an unhealthy person... .see that I needed to forgive "me" (I had no clue before T), and everything that I read said I had to forgive her to help me. I just could not.

I found this book "How Can I Forgive You" by Janis A. Spring, that has helped me sort out all those mixed up feelings. I still am not healed, but it at least helped me identify what I am able to do. "Accept" her for the disordered person that she is and it helps stop the expectation that she will some day act like a balanced, loving human being.

It helps me to know that acceptance is all I am capable of right now. I do still have pain and anger... .but at least I see where I am.  I am still hurt and dumbfounded by the things that she said and did, though. My total acceptance of who she is has also been the sole reason that I am able to stay absolute NC. She still tries every now and then. The book talks about "cheap forgiveness" which I avoided, but perhaps you have engaged in that. Just a guess. It's not uncommon. Oh, we humans are complicated, but I believe we can seek a path to feeling better.
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2015, 07:24:38 AM »

I'm not sure I understand the thread title... .? So I'm finding it hard to follow. Do you mean get told the truth by the pwBPD?
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2015, 07:32:14 AM »

I'm not sure I understand the thread title... .? So I'm finding it hard to follow. Do you mean get told the truth by the pwBPD?

The thread title is a bit misleading. Let me elaborate upon it.

The human psyche frustrates me. The fact that we have to 'process' things to accept them seems kind of like, and this is the best way that I know how to say it, a big, fat waste of time. Of course, by saying this I am denying my own basic traits as a human being, and that is not a healthy view.

I find myself angry with the time that we need to recover from a relationship like this, or any kind of loss. I think a big hurdle in my own healing has become the 'concept' of healing itself. When I ask the question in the thread title, I'm questioning the stages of grief that we encounter. Why are they necessary? What is the point? Why has the human brain developed in a way that naturally puts it at a disadvantage sometimes?

What I really mean to ask is, more generally, 'Wouldn't you just rather accept everything instantaneously and move on?'

My answer would undoubtedly be yes, but it is not possible. That's the dissonance that I need to accept right now.
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2015, 07:52:32 AM »

Infrared,  our MC suggested (after the break up) that I read up on Attachment... .at the time I didn't want to read or hear about any thing 'relationshippy',  I wanted the therapist to tell me straight up that yes my ex was seriously messed up!

Anyway,  didn't get that validation there... .But I did take him up more recently on his suggestion as I realised I hear the word so much and I'm genuinely confused as to the difference between love,  attachment,  trauma bonds,  healthy bonds,  detachment  etc etc.  After being on this site for a whiIe,  I began to think of 'attachment' as a bad thing as in it's from need so must be wrong... .It's what pwPBD do... .Etc

I came across a recommendation by another member here of a book called 'Attached' and pursued it.  It helped sort out a lot of stuff for me,  things kind of fell away about my mine and my ex's compatability,  my fears of being duped (hurt) again and really gave me Hope that I would have the wisdom to know the difference between compatible and incompatible (with me) and that a secure loving relationship was possible with a different type of person.  Honestly I can't recommend it highly enough.
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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2015, 07:56:27 AM »

I'm not sure I understand the thread title... .? So I'm finding it hard to follow. Do you mean get told the truth by the pwBPD?

The thread title is a bit misleading. Let me elaborate upon it.

The human psyche frustrates me. The fact that we have to 'process' things to accept them seems kind of like, and this is the best way that I know how to say it, a big, fat waste of time. Of course, by saying this I am denying my own basic traits as a human being, and that is not a healthy view.

I find myself angry with the time that we need to recover from a relationship like this, or any kind of loss. I think a big hurdle in my own healing has become the 'concept' of healing itself. When I ask the question in the thread title, I'm questioning the stages of grief that we encounter. Why are they necessary? What is the point? Why has the human brain developed in a way that naturally puts it at a disadvantage sometimes?

What I really mean to ask is, more generally, 'Wouldn't you just rather accept everything instantaneously and move on?'

My answer would undoubtedly be yes, but it is not possible. That's the dissonance that I need to accept right now.

Without suffering we'd repeat the same mistakes over and over and learn nothing. I agree; I'd much rather just red pill to the truth and sod the suffering but it seems to be, and there's a rather famous 2000 year old story that points to this truth, that suffering is the road to enlightenment. There's only one way out and I would not advocate that.

This lesson has been on my life curriculim for at least 20 years, ive had 20 years of partners, I chose much better as a young adult, as time passes ive made more compromises and lost sight of who I was with each passing relationship until finally this one; this one illicit es enough pain and suffering to finally teach me some important lessons. Lessons about my own power, lessons about how poorly I treat myself comparing to others. Ive abused my body, soul and spirit for years often for very short term gain, it's not the way. I haven't forgiven my ex completely, but I do know that without her, without the huge suffering I would never have sought the change needed in my life.

I watched the movie once 'eternal sunshine of the spotless mind', I don't remember much about it now but believe the core storyline is man wants to completely forget woman. I don't even remember the ending, I just remember thinking such a cute or pill would be invaluable. However if that movie does not end with the lead man not wishing to erase his pain it was a bad ending indeed!
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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2015, 08:09:43 AM »

Thanks Valet for clearing that up. I hear you,  dont know that I have the answer... .  Smiling (click to insert in post)

It seems we humans can only digest things in little lumps... .One thing I have found very strange in my own case is that I have such a vivid memory for this relationship,  like everything was heightened,  visual memory,  auditory memory etc I dont think I have ever had that before,  even ten months out I

can feel it like it was yesterday.  I want to be over it already but no it's not exactly going away, things keep coming up... .to be further digested and processed.  This is the truth I seek now... .getting to know myself better as a result.
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2015, 08:10:26 AM »

I watched the movie once 'eternal sunshine of the spotless mind', I don't remember much about it now but believe the core storyline is man wants to completely forget woman. I don't even remember the ending, I just remember thinking such a cute or pill would be invaluable. However if that movie does not end with the lead man not wishing to erase his pain it was a bad ending indeed!

The movie ends when Joel and Clementine discover the company that erases specific memories for a fee, and are shocked to learn that their memories of each other and their previous relationship that fell apart have been erased, but the spark is still there, they still like each other, so they start again.  Cue the sunset and string music, happily ever after... .

That's a movie you can make mean what you want.  What I make it mean is memories, beliefs, identities are all malleable and subject to choice, we can make them mean what we want, but there's something deeper under it all that perseveres.  Then again, one interpretation is that Clementine, the Kate Winslet character, is a borderline, so buyer beware, per usual.
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2015, 08:26:20 AM »

I watched the movie once 'eternal sunshine of the spotless mind', I don't remember much about it now but believe the core storyline is man wants to completely forget woman. I don't even remember the ending, I just remember thinking such a cute or pill would be invaluable. However if that movie does not end with the lead man not wishing to erase his pain it was a bad ending indeed!

The movie ends when Joel and Clementine discover the company that erases specific memories for a fee, and are shocked to learn that their memories of each other and their previous relationship that fell apart have been erased, but the spark is still there, they still like each other, so they start again.  Cue the sunset and string music, happily ever after... .

That's a movie you can make mean what you want.  What I make it mean is memories, beliefs, identities are all malleable and subject to choice, we can make them mean what we want, but there's something deeper under it all that perseveres.  Then again, one interpretation is that Clementine, the Kate Winslet character, is a borderline, so buyer beware, per usual.

So, he recycles! Cues up for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind II.
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2015, 08:38:31 AM »

The human psyche frustrates me. The fact that we have to 'process' things to accept them seems kind of like, and this is the best way that I know how to say it, a big, fat waste of time. Of course, by saying this I am denying my own basic traits as a human being, and that is not a healthy view.

I find myself angry with the time that we need to recover from a relationship like this, or any kind of loss. I think a big hurdle in my own healing has become the 'concept' of healing itself. When I ask the question in the thread title, I'm questioning the stages of grief that we encounter. Why are they necessary? What is the point? Why has the human brain developed in a way that naturally puts it at a disadvantage sometimes?

What I really mean to ask is, more generally, 'Wouldn't you just rather accept everything instantaneously and move on?'

There's what happens and what we make it mean, two different things.  In general we can change how we feel about something by changing what we make it mean, what our beliefs are around it, works pretty well, but with these relationships it takes a little extra work.

A borderline's need to attach, not in a Hallmark card 'you complete me' kind of way but in an unhealthy fusing of psyches to create one person out of two kind of way, a reenactment of the bond they had with their primary caregiver, probably their mother, the one they never successfully detached from, the situation that created the disorder to begin with, that need to attach and a borderline's survival-based expert way of doing it, creates a bond with our psyche that touches the deepest parts of us.  As we develop from newborns to autonomous adults, we formulate beliefs about ourselves, who we are, identities, beliefs about how people 'are' and how the world 'is', to make sense of it all, a model of the world that allows us to be content and at peace within it.  That starts with our earliest experiences with our parents and siblings and builds from there, so when a borderline shows up and attaches in that deep, unhealthy way, it touches the deepest parts of us, and when it doesn't work, we're left questioning those deepest parts, the ones our entire lives are built upon.  So the 'processing' we do is a process of rewiring our belief systems about ourselves and the world to make sense of it all again, and that takes a while when you start at the very beginning.  Which brings to mind the adage that nothing worth it is easy, and one thing we can make the experience mean is it's an opportunity, one we can end up grateful for, to dig deep and reassess how we got here and where we're going, motivated by pain, usually the strongest motivator, and maybe everything happens for a reason and it serves us, another belief, and that crafty borderline showed up in our lives exactly when it was time to learn some new lessons, maybe ones we'd been banging up against but not learning for years, and it took the gift of mental illness to give us the push to get through.

One man's hallucination, sitting well with me on a Sunday morning.
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2015, 08:41:29 AM »



Wouldn't you just rather get the truth told to you?


This is frustration with the community.

We are all disturbed in our own way from our relationships, of course, but I often see more hate than empathy.

In the early stages it's hard to have empathy for someone who abused and violated you.

It's part of the grief and healing process.

People have to be allowed this process.

Some people will never be the same (PTSD), and it's no fault of their own... .

It's a process, and each person has the right to that process... .

Excerpt
The members that can be trusted here do a great job empathizing. Who we are we aiming this hate at though?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but to imply (1) only empathizing members are trust worthy, is wrong, and unkind and (2) back to the process... .everyone will have an anger portion of the process and each individual should be allowed this step. To critisize a person or belittle a person because they are in the anger process, is unkind at the VERY least... .

Excerpt
Are we aiming it ourselves, or at the foreign concepts that we have built to believe in things?

Part of the process IS to be angry w/ self.

"How could I be so stupid, blind, gullible, fooled, etc."

I am not sure what you mean by 'foreign concepts'?

The 'hate, anger, etc' is pointed at the offender, clearly... .

Again, part of the process everyone will go thru. And should be allowed, to go thru.
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« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2015, 08:42:03 AM »

I watched the movie once 'eternal sunshine of the spotless mind', I don't remember much about it now but believe the core storyline is man wants to completely forget woman. I don't even remember the ending, I just remember thinking such a cute or pill would be invaluable. However if that movie does not end with the lead man not wishing to erase his pain it was a bad ending indeed!

The movie ends when Joel and Clementine discover the company that erases specific memories for a fee, and are shocked to learn that their memories of each other and their previous relationship that fell apart have been erased, but the spark is still there, they still like each other, so they start again.  Cue the sunset and string music, happily ever after... .

That's a movie you can make mean what you want.  What I make it mean is memories, beliefs, identities are all malleable and subject to choice, we can make them mean what we want, but there's something deeper under it all that perseveres.  Then again, one interpretation is that Clementine, the Kate Winslet character, is a borderline, so buyer beware, per usual.

So, he recycles! Cues up for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind II.

Aha!  It was all a Hollywood ploy to make a sequel!  Well, with that movie, very unique and thought-provoking, it would probably be called Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind 6, just to screw with us.
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« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2015, 08:56:44 AM »

I watched the movie once 'eternal sunshine of the spotless mind', I don't remember much about it now but believe the core storyline is man wants to completely forget woman. I don't even remember the ending, I just remember thinking such a cute or pill would be invaluable. However if that movie does not end with the lead man not wishing to erase his pain it was a bad ending indeed!

The movie ends when Joel and Clementine discover the company that erases specific memories for a fee, and are shocked to learn that their memories of each other and their previous relationship that fell apart have been erased, but the spark is still there, they still like each other, so they start again.  Cue the sunset and string music, happily ever after... .

That's a movie you can make mean what you want.  What I make it mean is memories, beliefs, identities are all malleable and subject to choice, we can make them mean what we want, but there's something deeper under it all that perseveres.  Then again, one interpretation is that Clementine, the Kate Winslet character, is a borderline, so buyer beware, per usual.

So, he recycles! Cues up for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind II.

EXACTLY!  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2015, 09:00:01 AM »

I watched the movie once 'eternal sunshine of the spotless mind', I don't remember much about it now but believe the core storyline is man wants to completely forget woman. I don't even remember the ending, I just remember thinking such a cute or pill would be invaluable. However if that movie does not end with the lead man not wishing to erase his pain it was a bad ending indeed!

The movie ends when Joel and Clementine discover the company that erases specific memories for a fee, and are shocked to learn that their memories of each other and their previous relationship that fell apart have been erased, but the spark is still there, they still like each other, so they start again.  Cue the sunset and string music, happily ever after... .

That's a movie you can make mean what you want.  What I make it mean is memories, beliefs, identities are all malleable and subject to choice, we can make them mean what we want, but there's something deeper under it all that perseveres.  Then again, one interpretation is that Clementine, the Kate Winslet character, is a borderline, so buyer beware, per usual.

So, he recycles! Cues up for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind II.

Aha!  It was all a Hollywood ploy to make a sequel!  Well, with that movie, very unique and thought-provoking, it would probably be called Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind 6, just to screw with us.

Or... ."GroundHog Day IIT"
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« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2015, 09:15:55 AM »

My life movie was Steven Kings "The Shining"... .

The movie took place over 1 winter.

Mine?

Over 25 years
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valet
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« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2015, 09:28:02 AM »



Wouldn't you just rather get the truth told to you?


This is frustration with the community.

We are all disturbed in our own way from our relationships, of course, but I often see more hate than empathy.

In the early stages it's hard to have empathy for someone who abused and violated you.

It's part of the grief and healing process.

People have to be allowed this process.

Some people will never be the same (PTSD), and it's no fault of their own... .

It's a process, and each person has the right to that process... .

Excerpt
The members that can be trusted here do a great job empathizing. Who we are we aiming this hate at though?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but to imply (1) only empathizing members are trust worthy, is wrong, and unkind and (2) back to the process... .everyone will have an anger portion of the process and each individual should be allowed this step. To critisize a person or belittle a person because they are in the anger process, is unkind at the VERY least... .

Excerpt
Are we aiming it ourselves, or at the foreign concepts that we have built to believe in things?

Part of the process IS to be angry w/ self.

"How could I be so stupid, blind, gullible, fooled, etc."

I am not sure what you mean by 'foreign concepts'?

The 'hate, anger, etc' is pointed at the offender, clearly... .

Again, part of the process everyone will go thru. And should be allowed, to go thru.

going places, you're hitting the nail right on the head here.

I seem to be in this crisis right now where caring is so much more difficult than not caring. This has manifested itself in a variety of ways, but the one that concerns me the most is just how much I have been lashing out. I never did this before.

Reading my post history, I have been unkind. This is out of character for me, which is partly why I made the thread. I have been behaving in ways that I don't necessary see as moral, correct, or understanding.

As the attachment with my ex grows smaller, more things are unearthed in me. Things that I previously had blamed my ex for are becoming more obviously centered around my own doubts, insecurities, and fears. The anger that I am experiencing has nothing to do with the situation, and everything to do with me, specifically how I've learned to cope.

I am not afraid of anything inside of me, I think. My main struggle is finding these things, however. Finding reasons for them, or accepting that maybe there are no reasons for some things. In the past few weeks, the best I can say I've felt is unstable, volatile, and not myself. This is my first experience of these emotions thus far in my healing that I haven't been able to explain or reason with.

It appears that I am in the spotlight right now, as all of my distractions and logical reasons for things get pushed into the background. There is work to be done here, I just don't know where to start.
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