Projections = insight?

[rotiroti]

I have a question about a pwBPD and their projecting. Do the projections have any bearing to the pwBPD having insight into their condition? For example, I remember a  conversation where my ex was accusing me of living in fear and that I was trying to fill that fear with love. I was extremely confused by this statement  and am realizing it was her projecting herself onto me.

Are they unable to process these thoughts on their own? Does it mean they are aware they are sick?

[Mutt]

I think that's a good question rotiroti . Projection is not synonymous with BPD and many non- disordered do it subconsciously as well. A lwBOD take it to the extreme.

Are we aware when we project uncomfortable feelings and actions?

[search4peace]

I remember a  conversation where my ex was accusing me of living in fear and that I was trying to fill that fear with love.

So odd... .my exuBPDgf said virtually the same thing to me, saying how I operated out of fear, while she operated out of love (translation: "me good, you bad".  She had shown me countless times so clearly that she was driven by her numerous fears, that I was left stunned upon hearing it - raging projection as far as I could tell.

[rotiroti]

I think that's a good question rotiroti . Projection is not synonymous with BPD and many non- disordered do it subconsciously as well. A lwBOD take it to the extreme.

Are we aware when we project uncomfortable feelings and actions?

That's a great perspective, and I have definitely projected myself from time to time. I think at the moment, I do it subconsciously, but as time passes I am able to reflect back and say, "oh that was me that was feeling that, I shouldn't have done that to X." Or can projection work with weather? Today was cold and gloomy and somehow I felt cold and gloomy... .subconsciously, but now I know it's just me feeling a bit down today.

So I guess the pwBPD is likely not aware and probably doesn't reflect back on moments like non's do. Thanks for clarifying that for me Mutt. Always a pleasure to see your well-thought out responses on here!

What are your thoughts on the matter?

I remember a  conversation where my ex was accusing me of living in fear and that I was trying to fill that fear with love.

So odd... .my exuBPDgf said virtually the same thing to me, saying how I operated out of fear, while she operated out of love (translation: "me good, you bad".  She had shown me countless times so clearly that she was driven by her numerous fears, that I was left stunned upon hearing it - raging projection as far as I could tell.

Wow search4peace... I also had moments where my roles were reversed as such. 'Raging projection' that's a good way to put it. These moments definitely came during the rage fits. It's painful to think about them... I was doomed if I disagreed, doomed if I agreed!

[Mutt]

I have definitely projected myself from time to time. I think at the moment, I do it subconsciously, but as time passes I am able to reflect back and say, "oh that was me that was feeling that, I shouldn't have done that to X."

I think it's more about self-awareness; introspection  and the ability to focus the attention on one's self, the capacity to compare our internal values and behaviors separately from other people and the environment than a defense mechanism to protect the ego.

I know non-disordered people that are very self aware and some that are less self-aware of their behaviors.

I think it depends on the individual and their self awareness. BPD is a spectrum disorder and is shared on a continuum with different forms, traits and severity. Every individual that suffers is different and unique. My ex does not give me the impression she's very self aware.

Thoughts?

[rotiroti]

I have definitely projected myself from time to time. I think at the moment, I do it subconsciously, but as time passes I am able to reflect back and say, "oh that was me that was feeling that, I shouldn't have done that to X."

I think it's more about self-awareness; introspection  and the ability to focus the attention on one's self, the capacity to compare our internal values and behaviors separately from other people and the environment than a defense mechanism to protect the ego.

I know non-disordered people that are very self aware and some that are less self-aware of their behaviors.

I think it depends on the individual and their self awareness. BPD is a spectrum disorder and is shared on a continuum with different forms, traits and severity. Every individual that suffers is different and unique. My ex does not give me the impression she's very self aware.

Thoughts?

Thanks again, the spectrum of the condition is one of the toughest things for me to understand. I had posted an apology letter she wrote that was extremely lucid and self-aware (I think you had replied to it too). I know for both our sake it's best not to be involved, but as I'm seeing this side of her, I keep holding on to that tiny sliver of hope... .hope that we can go back what it used to be

[Mutt]

I understand. Everyone's ex partner on these is a different person. I think BPD doesn't define the person and it's important to not overgeneralize. I'm not saying that you do, I see how vastly different my friends with a person in their with BPD traits are different.

I can also understand having that tiny sliver of hope and the opportunity for someone that you loved to get help for themselves.


I struggled with letting go too because I can see my ex partners patterns and behaviors and how self destructive that they are and damaging to the loved ones around her. I think that I had wanted to help her to feel better about myself, I had fallen out of love with her a long time ago and before the end of the r/s if I look at my true feelings.  I think it was my caretaker qualities and how I coped with abandonment and the reality of how things were over.

I recall the letter and I can't recall if she wanted to get help for herself?

Is it that you still love her? Do you identify with being a caretaker?

[rotiroti]

I struggled with letting go too because I can see my ex partners patterns and behaviors and how self destructive that they are and damaging to the loved ones around her. I think that I had wanted to help her to feel better about myself, I had fallen out of love with her a long time ago and before the end of the r/s if I look at my true feelings.  I think it was my caretaker qualities and how I coped with abandonment and the reality of how things were over.

OH Mutt... that's exactly how I feel! I felt the love dissipating, but the caretaker tendencies I have were firing on all cylinders. Even now after a month of n/c which I initiated, I'm over-ridden with guild. Did I really try my best? Did I abandon her unnecessarily?

Being on here has been incredibly helpful. Understanding that no one should be responsible how another feels. I have been messaging with various members and listening to their tales (thanks fromheeltoheal) and I know detachment takes compassion. Understanding the BPD POV is helping, but also at the same it's so illogical to think like they do.

I'm getting off-topic here, but her dad actually wrote to my family. I was afraid to open the letter thinking it would be a scathing letter of having left his daughter, but it was one that was validating my hurt. It validated that I really did give it my all and the love I brought to her home was very real and earnest. Sorry for the sentimentality Mutt! It's been a tough day haha

I recall the letter and I can't recall if she wanted to get help for herself?

It was a letter she wrote to my parents, it's a shame because they really like her and were expecting grandkids one of these days... .She did not state she wanted to get help, but wrote something along the lines of:

She hated that she hurt me and was genuinely apologetic. Explained that her life was filled with mistakes, but was proud that she always lived it on her own terms. She was sorry for not saying 'no' when I proposed and found herself growing with negativity instead of love. Said a 'generous soul' like me must've suffered so much at her impatience... and how she is impatient with those that she is closest to.

Is it that you still love her? Do you identify with being a caretaker?

Yes, lots of ruminating. Wishing somehow she will return to the woman I fell in love with. It's so bizarre, the sweet side of her was always present when we were friends for 10+ years... the last 4 days of our r/s (7 months) were such a nightmare. Like a lightswitch...

but i am recognizing that the mirroring, she was slowly collecting parts of me throughout the years. Somehow when we reunited, we had all the same hobbies, views, and dreams!

[Mutt]

No need to apologize for going off topic, this is your discussion and you can conduct it any way that you like  

I think that she sounds regretful and is being honest with how she hurts the closest that she's with.

It also sounds like you had a wonderful long-term friendship and I read that you were split white when you say "sweet side" a pwBPD have difficulties seeing someone as an integrated whole and see you as all good or all bad with splitting.

I think it helps us to let go of the ideal that the person will return to a permanent idealization phase and to let go and radically accept.

Do you think perhaps the light switch was her fear of intimacy and that's what triggered her?

I can see how difficult that would be when you got to enjoy many years knowing her where she displayed a non threatening side and to find yourself in a nightmare. That has to be hard.

I can see that she also validates you with calling you a "generous soul" How does that make you feel?

[rotiroti]

Thanks Mutt  ,

I was just rehashing the hurtful things she said, how it felt when she told me she hated coming home to me (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279510.0;all) and couldn't help but feel overwhelmed with sadness. Glad I can still feel and have the courage and support to start processing this mess.

I think that she sounds regretful and is being honest with how she hurts the closest that she's with.

Great insight, that was the feeling I got from reading the letter. I want to believe that I have known her long enough to know she was sincere and honest. What I am learning throughout my healing here is that actions speak louder than words, and while the apology is welcoming, I know I must move on with the radical acceptance.

It also sounds like you had a wonderful long-term friendship and I read that you were split white when you say "sweet side" a pwBPD have difficulties seeing someone as an integrated whole and see you as all good or all bad with splitting.

That's what kills me, such a long friendship and us being engaged and moving in together just felt like an extension of that good kind bond. I do admit I understand that wanting her to be permanently in the idolization phase is unrealistic and ultimately selfish of me. You know that sliver of hope? I think deep down I want her to get better for me.

I think it helps us to let go of the ideal that the person will return to a permanent idealization phase and to let go and radically accept.

Yes exactly! I want to give myself credit for having come this far, but I'm also afraid to let go. Part of that fear is losing someone who I felt incredible love for and a great friend. It's a big loss either way

Do you think perhaps the light switch was her fear of intimacy and that's what triggered her?

Definitely. I think us moving-in together and being engaged must've been overwhelming -- I had 2 weeks of mentally preparing the engagement and everything. It felt fast, but then I chalked up my courage to our long connection. When she saw the ring I also saw genuine happiness flash past her face. Everything was always intense and I am starting to see that nothing at that intensity can be sustained.

I have to give her credit that she held out for as long as she did, she must've been so scared of the pace and everything that was happening.

I can see that she also validates you with calling you a "generous soul" How does that make you feel?

Incredible sadness. Going back to the earlier part of your post, I know she meant what she said... but even more sadness knowing that it's best to let it all go.





wow Mutt, you helped me recognize and peek deep into my r/s and subsequent b/u. I had so much on my plate and I can't thank you enough for helping me sort them out. I read a post somewhere here about feeling ultimate sadness before finding true happiness, I hope it's true!