Does going NC help a BPDex undergoing therapy?

[sas1729]

Hey,

I was just reading another thread and made a reply. The subject got me thinking about a specific scenario that I actually never faced but am curious to hear opinions about.

My BPDex was never diagnosed. She was "diagnosed" from a distance by my therapist who picked it out from the stories I would tell. He was fairly confident because the traits were clear. I never told my ex what I suspected for fear of a fight. A big part of me was resigned to the condition, and I hoped that someday magically she would ask herself if the problem in our relationship came from her. It never happened. Things got progressively worse and in the end I was resigned to not being able to fix the relationship. I think in many ways the fact that it dragged out was my fault. I felt that I could somehow fix the relationship even though I was told by my therapist (and read in books) that treatment for BPD can take years with professional help. I was powerless to do anything. Ultimately I broke up with her and went NC immediately.

For whatever reason going NC stuck. It was made easier by two things. First, the relationship was bad to the point where breaking up was a relief in many ways. I had lost myself and needed to find who I am. Second, she stuck to NC as well. I know that it doesn't happen that way often, but it did in my case. Only once did she contact me to let me know that some shared dropbox folders she had removed my access but had made a copy for me. Pretty straightforward and actually a nice thing.

In the parting conversation I never mentioned BPD. I think at the time I wanted to exit as quickly as possible. Making a suggestion that she should seek a diagnosis would be too touchy. And perhaps to hear it at the moment of a breakup would cause resentment and she would never take the advice. I feel guilty about breaking up with her, even though looking back I remember the reasons and am happy that I did so.

I hope that she will someday seek a diagnosis and whatever therapy is necessary after. Without meaning to be condescending, I feel sorry for her because she would be a wonderful person if this condition did not exist. My staying with her propagated the sadness. I don't have resentment any longer towards the relationship. I wish her well and in some alternate world where she was aware of the condition and seeking treatment, I may have had different thoughts. So my question is, do you think that if a pwBPD is aware of the condition and is actively seeking therapy, and you decide to go NC after a breakup, does the NC status help the pwBPD?

I have no experience with this. It seems to me that it could because you would no longer be an outlet to help propagate the behaviour associated with BPD. Basically it would give the pwBPD a blank slate. But on the other hand maybe they would seek another person and continue the cycle.

I guess this is indulging a "what if" fantasy. I think I would feel more guilty leaving if I knew that she were seeking therapy. And on some level I feel guilty not mentioning my suspicion.

So here. Let me add another question. If you decide to end things and go NC with your undiagnosed BPDex, would you (or have you) mentioned your suspicion to them? I think I was afraid to because I did not want a continued relationship, and making a remark like that may have made her resent me more and continue to reach out to me.

[lawman79]

Hey Sas

You and I have been going back and forth on threads, so I thought I would return the favor.  So you never did opine why you think NC stuck... .I know in my case it was because I said nasty things back to the nukes she lobbed at me.

I will tell you I once told my exgf I think she had bipolar disorder... .she respond by sending me a link to a page listing off 14 criteria for the disorder.  The first one was suicide ideations... .three days before she threatened to kill herself if I didn't come over. It was shocking how she could send that and say see none of these 14 apply to me.  My ex did once admit that there was something wrong with her and needed help, but then backed out on going to see a therapist. She did have meds for depression, anxeity and a sleep disorder.  So honestly I have no idea what therapy she did or didn't get... .or if she got therapy after I left. For her sake I hope she is in therapy.

Bottom line is, I think the most there is no rationalizing or reasoning with mental illness. I also know from reading this board and talking to a T, that treatment for BPD is intense and takes years... .and there is no guarantee of any positive outcome.  So I hate to say it, but I think you are spinning your wheels here.

[rotiroti]

Hey sas1729,

Great to see your thoughtful posts on here, I don't think you are being condescending at all. It speaks volumes to what a kind and empathetic person you are when I read that you try to understand her POV and to let go of the hurt with understanding.

Your post really resonated with me for several reasons:

1. my BPDex was also undiagnosed

2. I also went NC immediately. It's almost uncanny how similar our stories are, i think she reached out to be only once or twice. She called once which I didn't answer and she wrote me once which i promptly tossed after a quick scan. She also ended up writing to my parents, but I wouldn't count that.

3. Feeling the guilt that perhaps I left too early without having given it my all. But I agree with your T, only they can help themselves . This is one of the most important lessons. I never see a happy ending story here about recycles. Sure you could make the argument that those with success stories are no longer posting here, and that might be very true.

4. At the time I wanted to exit as fast as possible

So my question is, do you think that if a pwBPD is aware of the condition and is actively seeking therapy, and you decide to go NC after a breakup, does the NC status help the pwBPD?

I think the answer varies from person to person, but I'll share with you mine. My uBPDex was not aware of BPD specifically, but always knew that 'something' was wrong with her. Even during the honeymoon phase she would beg me not to hate the 'crazy' side of her.

Does NC catalyze seeking help on the pwBPD's behalf? It could. I am also a poster on psychforum which is targeted and run by pwBPD. The ones that treat professional help and find out they are pwBPD are the ones that had a life changing moment. Whether they be:

1. 'the one' that got away and made them realize that they were the source of the pain

2. some traumatic loss (lover, family, etc)

3. some traumatic event

Whatever the cause, the pwBPD in remission are all of those who have been in years of therapy. Could I wait that long for my ex? No. But I, like you, wish the best for my uBPDex. Everyone deserves to be healthy and to belong in this world

So here. Let me add another question. If you decide to end things and go NC with your undiagnosed BPDex, would you (or have you) mentioned your suspicion to them? I think I was afraid to because I did not want a continued relationship, and making a remark like that may have made her resent me more and continue to reach out to me.

No, I did not. At the time I was really heart-broken and did not want to do anything with her. As I am healing however, I am recognizing that telling her would not change my decision. In my case it would have made her resent me more because like other pwBPD, she was extremely sensitive to criticism. She would have most likely not seen my suspicion as a way to help her, but rather as a personal attack. I shudder at the thought of the ensuing argument followed by being projected that I was the one with BPD.

sas1729, you sound further along the path to recovery than you think you are. Really thoughtful insights and starting to see the past with the emotions detached... .powerful stuff! Keep up the good work and remember that recovery is not always linear. Sometimes you might feel like you are in back to square 1. Just remember that's normal. It's normal to be human.

[Skip]

Does NC catalyze seeking help on the pwBPD's behalf? It could. The ones that treat professional help and find out they are pwBPD are the ones that had a life changing moment. Whether they be:

1. 'the one' that got away and made them realize that they were the source of the pain

2. some traumatic loss (lover, family, etc)

3. some traumatic event

Whatever the cause, the pwBPD in remission are all of those who have been in years of therapy.

This is a good summary.  We can extend it to ourselves... .generally no one seeks help until they encounter "a life changing moment".

There are two more hurdles to treatment in the system itself.

Diagnosis. Another challenge is getting individuals diagnosed in the current healthcare environment and standards of care. Unless there is an acute crisis, such a a suicide attempt, Borderline Personality Disorder is often only diagnosed after treatment of the secondary or comorbid afflictions (e.g., depression), or more easily treatable afflictions (e.g., bipolor disorder) fail.

I rarely make negative comments about professionals, but I will make one. You therapists will easily label or lead you to label your partner - but if that very person sought treatment from them, they would not diagnose BPD.

There are a lot of good therapeutic and occupational reasons not to diagnose BPD flippantly, but this all sets up a very weird dynamic.

One reason to never tell anyone they have a personality disorder is that there therapist most likely will contradict you.

And we can extend that to ourselves. How many of you have seen someone posting here that was dealing with some significant issues and report back that their therapist said they don't have any issues (but continued to work with them).

Access Finding access to BPD therapies can be a challenge.  These state-of-the-art treatments that are not readily available from family physicians, pastoral counselors, licensed social workers, masters degreed family practitioners, or even many psychologists. It's not that these techniques are highly sophisticated and beyond the capability of community mental health practitioners, it is more a lack of training of practitioners. These are new methods and not many practitioners have been trained.

[sas1729]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for the encouraging replies! It's nice to be able to share my story with people who understand and to listen in return.

One thing that I want to say after reading this forum is that I don't really remember so many shouting matches as I read about here. Nor were there repeated threats of suicide. Much of the behaviour I can relate to except for the intensity of those two. She did shout at times, but not habitually. There was only one time where an indirect reference to suicide was made, and that was near the end. After literally running away from me outside a concert hall (that's another story) down the street I walked back to her apt. I had a key. She appeared later and through a pained voice told me that the "only way" she thought she could get people to listen (her mother and me) was if a car had hit her. At that point I was well into reading about BPD, so I realized that this was yet another boundary crossed. If I let it go then suicide threats, no matter how indirectly, would remain as part of the relationship.

Lawman you asked why I thought the NC stuck immediately. There are a couple of reasons I think, basically relating to the nature of our personalities and where exactly the relationship had ended up at the end.

My ex was for sure a high functioning pwBPD. She was educated and received a doctorate. She was quite independent, having never lived with any of her exes, and she had a group of friends from undergrad. I want to write more about her background, but I think out of respect for her what I have written highlights where she was coming from. The point is that she was proud of herself and had a right to be in many aspects. She had told me that if things are over she moves on. She is not vindictive about exes. As a consequence, I actually expected her to go NC with me if things ended. This is why I am learning a lot from hearing people talk about the status of their NC and how often it seems that exBPDs get in touch.

As for myself, I think it had to do a lot more with my state of mind at the time than hers. I vaguely recall in the quick breakup discussion that I was the "love of her life". She felt that she was losing that. After 2.5 years, I had to be in such a poor state of mind as to go through with the breakup and knowing that. I was. And the origin of that I have written about briefly in various posts. After joining this forum and reading the posts, I have come to accept that I was in part to blame for my ex's unhappiness. It was too easy for me to blame it all on her BPD traits. I had a role in all of this, and recently I have been feeling sad and apologetic. Yes, I endured a lot, but I always had the power to leave. In hindsight, it was narcissistic of me to presume that I could fix the BPD once I learned about it.

Basically, she was my first serious girlfriend. I was and am very close with my family. It was very difficult for them to accept that I was growing close to someone else, an "outsider" shall I say. They fully expect this to happen, but on some level I think what they expected to remain of the closeness between us was not realistic. However, I and my ex were to blame in large part for how drastically and rudely I treated my family.

Ultimately my ex never met my family in 2.5 years. In fact, the only time she met my father was a week before the breakup. It was a holiday party for my dad's work, and we were invited by my father, much to his resentment (he did this as a gesture to me). So I give him a lot of credit for "sucking it up" and offering an olive branch. After a lot of stress my ex accepted. Truly it was an untenable state. I was essentially offered a choice - my family or my ex. My actions were clearly in my ex's camp, but I now know that it was in a huge part due to BPD. This is to say that my ex did have a pretty important impact on my relationship with my family, and at many points she could have made simple gestures to them that would have made things easier.

Well, the holiday party was awkward, but I had an overall good time. Of course we fought right after. There was just no way I could reconcile the two camps. Both parties told me repeatedly that they would have nothing to do with each other. At the time I felt that they were both being unreasonable, but I can see how my parents did develop this attitude over 2.5 years. I hurt them deeply. As for my ex, she had a few legitimate complaints, but she could have done a lot more for me, knowing just how important my family was when we met.

All of this had caused me a lot of pain over the two years. As a result, the week after the holiday party I broke. Something just snapped. I remember what it was that caused it. Of all things, it was my therapist telling me, "if you don't do this now, you never will." That sentence forced me to face the reality of my situation. The blur of unhappiness crystallized into an acceptance that my ex's BPD traits will cause me and my family hurt as long as I was with her. I loved her, naively. It was not really love I think, looking back. It was my need to be loyal and try to fix someone, which is actually quite narcissistic. Her BPD traits were using me, for sure, but a part of my personality was using her. There was an odd security about the relationship. It had to end. In many ways for her sake as much as mine. So my side of the NC came in large part because there was no substance to the relationship anymore. There really hadn't been in months. As my friend put it, it was the longest breakup he had seen, which is probably why 2.5 years ended in a fifteen minute conversation. Nothing, because there really was nothing. Our personalities were just using each others.

I think I have changed the topic of this thread with this post. But one of the main things that I'm getting from this forum is a chance to really be honest with myself. Perhaps in many ways the nons have a lot to do with the unhappiness of the relationship. The longer we stay, do our BPDexes become more committed, and thus feel more unhappiness at the end? I know that BPD typically relegates the emotional commitment to be skin deep, but in the case of my ex I really think she loved me, naively as I did love her naively. I think I did hurt her a lot, because maybe she just didn't see it coming. Maybe my silence about BPD led her to not understand why I was building up in my mind a list of reasons for breaking up. I acted out my role in the relationship until close to the end, so was I deluding her?

A few weeks after it ended, I did get an email from her mother, basically asking me why I had done it. I never replied. I do want to stress that it was a bad relationship and I was very hurt by my ex, so I had legitimate reasons to end it. I just wish I were not such a coward about doing it. 

I guess this post is now somewhat of a confession. But maybe nons should think about their role in all of this. It is a crazy world, and we are part of it. I do wish her well and the resentment has faded. What is left is a bittersweet sadness. She was a good person that was obscured by BPD.

One last thing. I remember we took a couple of trips to her grandmother's beach house. It was a cute, quiet area. I enjoyed walking up to the water, and when I blocked out the overarching problems life seemed happy. I actually thought to myself that it wouldn't be bad going there once in a while. I actually thought to myself that maybe this would be part of my life long term. But it will not be. Not because I hated that part, but because BPD destroyed it. And I let it go on. Even my mother told me, if I really cared about my ex I would leave because it just wouldn't work out. She was right.

[rotiroti]

You're an excellent writer, you know that?

Your mom sounds incredibly wise and kind-hearted. I know advice is advice, but hearing from loved ones who have experienced more life are almost always sound.

Did we date the same woman? Mine was also a doctorate and was very high functioning haha. Her dad actually wrote me apologizing that his daughter had hurt me and he was hopign we would see each other again. Who knows.

Did you ever read the article about love written from a BPD persective? They describe the love as genuine but sort of as a naive love as you say.

Finally, you are spot on. As toxic as the relationship was, it took two to tango.

[SummerStorm]

My former friend was diagnosed in June and is committed to getting treatment for it. 

First of all, there were several things that led her to this point:

1. She tried to commit suicide for the second time.

2. She cheated on her boyfriend with me and then realized what she almost lost.  She did love me, but she is in love with him, and he is a much better fit for her.  I know that now. 

3. All of the back and forth between her boyfriend and me also caused her to hurt me very deeply and destroy our friendship.  She wrote me a letter that I received today, and she said I'm a major reason why she has decided to get help.  Basically, she realized that she keeps hurting people.

In the letter, she told me that she thinks it's best for everyone, especially her, if I don't try to contact her or her boyfriend.  At the end of the day, I do think she felt something for me, but that something almost caused her to leave her boyfriend.  I did text her a few times today, thanking her for the letter, and she replied.  But I know that is over now, and when she moves in two months, she will get a new number, and that will really be it.  I'll be honest.  It would be nice to have some contact with her, even if it's just to say "Happy Birthday" or to give a quick update on how things are going.  And who knows?  In a few months, I may hear something from her, and I may not.  She is the one who needs to heal, and if not talking to me helps her heal, then that really is what's best for everyone.   

[sas1729]

Thanks rotiroti for the kind words. I doubt we dated the same woman; I never met her dad! They had no contact between themselves.

I have not read the article about love from a pwBPD's perspective. That would be interesting to read. As I wrote earlier, I really wonder how my ex felt. Where can I find the article?

[Tomzxz]

sas1729, It was a pleasure reading your post.  I often wondered about this very same thing.  Would my ex get help after I broke up with her? A common theme on this site is the striking similarities to our stories and a common phrase that I see is “did we date the same person?”  Your story sounds so similar to mine and just reaffirms that my undiagnosed ex undeniably had BPD.  My ex was high functioning and I know she loved me as much as she could the 2.5 years we were together.  I knew she suspected some kind of problem when she said that she just doesn’t have what it takes to be in relationships.  She was also high functioning, very intelligent, proud of her accomplishments but incredibly selfish.  She spent most of her life leeching off boyfriends and family and offering abuse in return.  Her selfishness was the focus of her survival skills learned over the years and I know she faced her condition once or twice before because she gave full disclosure of her passive aggression and self centered traits.  She simply added that psychological knowledge to her quiver of arrows. Her survival skills were well honed and her strong narcissistic traits created extreme amounts of mental abuse and emotional neglect in the relationship. Fear of abandonment got her into a relationship, fear of engulfment triggered her exit strategy and her narcissism ended it.

Were our stories diverge is that I did confront my ex with my belief that she had BPD after her refusal to read the book The High-Conflict Couple.  I was so frustrated after having lost three months of sleep and I was also faced with the decision to end it now or never.  After My blowup over the book, she left the house and moved her things out over the next few days.  I alienated my family to appease my partner and my partner also had her legitimate reasons to not like them.  The tension during the last six months was unbearable and it was a relief for both of us to break up.  I too questioned if it was her or me that has BPD.  It was just a slow motion breakup and my codependency manifested itself for the first time in my life with this woman in my thinking that I could save her.

 

We tried therapy for one month but it quickly became apparent that she wasn’t going to compromise and I was expected to continue to make all the concessions – I realized that we were spinning our wheels so I ended it.  I broke up with her through a letter and her response was curt and I could sense her anger.  Like you, I realized that I played my part in creating the pain and suffering in our relationship. Three months after the breakup, I stopped by her grandmother’s house (where she was staying) to apologize to her and she flew into a narcissistic rage.  It was at that point I realized that her narcissism was far more controlling of her life than her BPD and that there was no hope that she would seek the proper help. It was foolish of me to think that she would change a lifetime pattern of behavior for me and it was equally foolish and narcissistic of me to think that labeling her would prompt her to seek help.

If given the chance to do it again I wouldn’t have labeled her but would have instead done exactly as you had done and just ended it without giving the real reason, it would have hurt her far less.  I am sorry that I labeled her and I will never forget our trip home from our first therapy session.  We sat in her grandmother’s driveway and she turned to me and asked, why did I have to label her? Why couldn’t I just love her for being her?  It was the only time in our relationship that I think her tears were real and it broke my heart and left me choked up speechless. I couldn’t respond - I must have felt so cold to her at that moment.  I would love to be able to go back to that exact moment and simply tell her that it was her behavior that caused so much hurt to my feelings and that the cause was not her fault. She never deserved or asked for the condition that she lives with.

If given the chance to go through couple’s therapy again, I would have found the money somehow to go out of network to the therapist that specialized in BPD that I found during time researching the condition, but by then I was worn out, broke and not in sound mind - we settled on going to her therapist who insisted she wasn’t broken.  Part of me thinks her therapist knew the true extent of her condition and was doing me a favor by channeling the pressure on to me by stonewalling her behavior, prompting me to exit the relationship. This was confirmed when weeks later I saw our therapist by myself and she wouldn’t comment on my ex’s condition but hinted at her true mental state when she said I would be better off with an independent woman.

Long story short – NC didn’t get my ex into therapy and labeling them is most likely going to break their trust and end the relationship.  It seems that once their behavior is called out and you are no longer a source for their self-esteem supply, they feel abandoned and know it’s time to move on.  It’s such a sad condition and I know I played my part in fueling the dysfunction but my heart truly does go out to her and all the couples that suffer from this debilitating childhood trauma/shame disorder.  I wish there was more we could do to help but sometimes it’s best to just let go.  It’s such a terrible dynamic but we did have some good times - I don’t miss the abuse but I still miss my best friend.

[rotiroti]

Thanks rotiroti for the kind words. I doubt we dated the same woman; I never met her dad! They had no contact between themselves.

I have not read the article about love from a pwBPD's perspective. That would be interesting to read. As I wrote earlier, I really wonder how my ex felt. Where can I find the article?

Good morning sas1729, the article I mentioned is:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/my-definition-love-i-have-borderline-personality-disorder


I was just kidding about having dated the same woman, it's uncanny how similar how everyone's story is. Glad we're all here to help each other out in recovery!

[rotiroti]

Long story short – NC didn’t get my ex into therapy and labeling them is most likely going to break their trust and end the relationship.  It seems that once their behavior is called out and you are no longer a source for their self-esteem supply, they feel abandoned and know it’s time to move on.  It’s such a sad condition and I know I played my part in fueling the dysfunction but my heart truly does go out to her and all the couples that suffer from this debilitating childhood trauma/shame disorder.  I wish there was more we could do to help but sometimes it’s best to just let go.  It’s such a terrible dynamic but we did have some good times - I don’t miss the abuse but I still miss my best friend.

Oh tomzxz

How are you doing? It seems like you are far along the path of recovery and have some really powerful insights. Thank you for sharing your story with us on here, you put to words so many things that I am struggling with myself.


My thoughts out to you!

[Tomzxz]

rotiroti, thank you for asking, and I hope you are well too.  Its been four months and I still find myself crying a little.  Sometimes I cry out of the blue, it's usually at home when I can still imagine her laugh - imagine her sitting in a chair reading or standing at the bathroom sink brushing her hair (she had the most beautiful long black hair and she chopped it off after the breakup). She is often the last thought on my mind when I go to bed and the first thought that wakes me up. I wonder what she is reading or preparing for dinner, what sweeter she decided on wearing today... .that sort of thing. The more I realize my part in the relationship the more I miss her but I know its over. I have to remind myself of the abuse that I experienced and that usually snaps me out of the romanticizing. A personality disorder took her away from me ... .It was a doomed dynamic from the beginning because we were two incomplete people looking for love but I still miss how her hand felt like a perfect fit in mine and how she could give the best hugs. Yes I wanted to help, but in the end, she will not seek help but rather hide in her loneliness, behaving the way she usually does and cause hurt, pain, and destruction in her path.

I trusted her with my heart, I trusted her much more than she ever deserved. I don’t have regrets, just hard earned life lessons. I don't beat myself up anymore because I know It's ok to be human, to feel for her, but it's ok to take care of myself now.  They may not seek therapy, self help or simply self reflect after a breakup or NC but we can because we love ourselves.