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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: "No," that's her reply  (Read 3052 times)
SummerStorm
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« on: August 04, 2015, 03:41:36 PM »

So, I've been struggling with a few things, and I was hoping that I could maybe get my former friend BPD to answer a few questions for me, just about some things she said that I've always questioned.

I texted her and said, "Tomorrow is my 30th birthday.  If I e-mail you some questions, can you try really hard to answer them honestly?  I'm sorry.  I'm still struggling with some things.  Consider a step on your journey to become a better person?" 

A little over an hour later, her reply:  "No."

That's it.  No.  Not even a "Happy Birthday, but I'm sorry, I won't answer your questions." 

I was going to write her a letter in a few weeks and put it in a birthday card, but I'm not even going to bother now. 

She's the same person she always was.  She'll move next month, and she'll continue to be the same person she always was.  She'll avoid going to therapy or will go and then decide that nothing is wrong with her. 

9/9 BPD right here, folks. 
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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2015, 03:46:48 PM »

But I bet if you asked her something about her, you would exchange texts for hours... .as long as it was her you were talking about.
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2015, 03:48:36 PM »

So, I've been struggling with a few things, and I was hoping that I could maybe get my former friend BPD to answer a few questions for me, just about some things she said that I've always questioned.

I texted her and said, "Tomorrow is my 30th birthday.  If I e-mail you some questions, can you try really hard to answer them honestly?  I'm sorry.  I'm still struggling with some things.  Consider a step on your journey to become a better person?" 

A little over an hour later, her reply:  "No."

That's it.  No.  Not even a "Happy Birthday, but I'm sorry, I won't answer your questions." 

I was going to write her a letter in a few weeks and put it in a birthday card, but I'm not even going to bother now. 

She's the same person she always was.  She'll move next month, and she'll continue to be the same person she always was.  She'll avoid going to therapy or will go and then decide that nothing is wrong with her. 

9/9 BPD right here, folks. 

Unfortunately thats borderline... no empathy and selfishness. Maybe one day she will answer your questions. Can I ask what you wanted to ask her? Perhaps most of the answers she gives anyway could not make sense due to a BPD's disordered thoughts and feelings.

And ps. HAPPY BIRTHDAY FOR TOMORROW Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2015, 03:49:42 PM »

Hey SummerStorm, Seems like you are barking up the wrong tree.  Why bother?  You can't control her response, but you can stop setting yourself up for disappointment.  LuckyJim
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« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2015, 04:42:24 PM »

Hi SummerStorm,

I am sorry that your conversation did not go as you would like.   

Foremost, Happy birthday.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I texted her and said, "Tomorrow is my 30th birthday.  If I e-mail you some questions, can you try really hard to answer them honestly?  I'm sorry.  I'm still struggling with some things.  Consider a step on your journey to become a better person?" 

A little over an hour later, her reply:  "No."

That's it.  No.  Not even a "Happy Birthday, but I'm sorry, I won't answer your questions." 

Shame is as central to BPD is as emotional dysregulation. It is very hard to pwBPD to face things that they are shameful or feel guilty about. Instead of facing the intense primary emotions associated with shame or guilt, they avoid them.  It is most likely that she perceived your text as criticism. From a pwBPD's perspective criticism is a reinforcer for their shame/low self-worth. They are hypersensitive to criticism.

Were  you expecting a response?

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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2015, 05:00:30 PM »

Aw man... .what a rotten thing to hear in time for your birthday.   

I definitely agree with what Lucky Jim wrote and to add to what he said,the 10 Beliefs Article really helped me from breaking lc/nc (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=140819.0). #2 especially -- it reminded me that a pwBPD does not feel and think the way we do. I know that if I were to reach out I would just be further disappointed.
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SummerStorm
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« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2015, 05:34:22 PM »

But I bet if you asked her something about her, you would exchange texts for hours... .as long as it was her you were talking about.

No, she wants NC, and toward the end of the friendship, she wouldn't even answer my questions about how she was doing.  She had just gotten out of the hospital. 

She sent me a card two weeks ago, thanking me for my friendship, and sent back my stuff, and she's been on mood regulators for almost two months, so I thought that I could maybe get through to her. 

I swear, it's like being diagnosed with BPD has given her the mindset that she really can do anything, since she can just blame it on BPD.  Is this something that can happen after a diagnosis?
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« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2015, 05:44:45 PM »

I'm sorry that your pwBPD wouldn't give you what you hoped for, SummerStorm.

I never really got my questions answered either. It took me a while to find closure after my relationship ended.

It might be true that she is using her diagnosis as an excuse for her behavior. This is denial at its finest. Hopefully during therapy she will discover this. Regardless of whether she does or doesn't, you will eventually have to find a way to accept her for who she is, BPD and all.

Remember, she is unstable and may say things that she can't back up with real actions. Her emotional needs outweigh her real needs. This is one of the lynchpins of the disorder. You cannot fix this. She has to, and there is probably nothing that you can say or do to get her to a healthy, happy place. That is painful information to hear. I know I personally spent a lot of time not believing it. I had moved mountains for myPWD before, so why would I not be able to anymore?

Here's something that might help you right now: 7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard
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SummerStorm
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« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2015, 05:47:26 PM »

Unfortunately thats borderline... no empathy and selfishness. Maybe one day she will answer your questions. Can I ask what you wanted to ask her? Perhaps most of the answers she gives anyway could not make sense due to a BPD's disordered thoughts and feelings.

And ps. HAPPY BIRTHDAY FOR TOMORROW Smiling (click to insert in post)

Thanks for the birthday wishes!

Honestly, mostly yes or no questions.

-Did you really have a job at the restaurant in May?

-Did your boyfriend really ask you to move in when you came back from your vacation?

-Did you come to work high?

-Was it your plan all along to cancel on me Mother's Day weekend?

Like you said, who knows what answers I would have gotten?
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So when will this end it goes on and on/Over and over and over again/Keep spinning around I know that it won't stop/Till I step down from this for good - Lifehouse "Sick Cycle Carousel"
SummerStorm
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« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2015, 05:50:08 PM »

Hi SummerStorm,

I am sorry that your conversation did not go as you would like.   

Foremost, Happy birthday.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I texted her and said, "Tomorrow is my 30th birthday.  If I e-mail you some questions, can you try really hard to answer them honestly?  I'm sorry.  I'm still struggling with some things.  Consider a step on your journey to become a better person?" 

A little over an hour later, her reply:  "No."

That's it.  No.  Not even a "Happy Birthday, but I'm sorry, I won't answer your questions." 

Shame is as central to BPD is as emotional dysregulation. It is very hard to pwBPD to face things that they are shameful or feel guilty about. Instead of facing the intense primary emotions associated with shame or guilt, they avoid them.  It is most likely that she perceived your text as criticism. From a pwBPD's perspective criticism is a reinforcer for their shame/low self-worth. They are hypersensitive to criticism.

Were  you expecting a response?

Thanks for the birthday wishes!

I was hoping she would say yes or would at least say no and wish me a happy birthday.
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« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 06:16:59 PM »

You deserve better.  I honestly believe that when we meet a healthy partner we won't have these questions as they will just be answered automatically. Happy birthday 
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« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2015, 06:22:25 PM »

Excerpt
"Tomorrow is my 30th birthday.  If I e-mail you some questions, can you try really hard to answer them honestly?  I'm sorry.  I'm still struggling with some things.  Consider a step on your journey to become a better person?" 

If she sent you this, what would your response be?

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SummerStorm
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« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2015, 06:33:30 PM »

Excerpt
"Tomorrow is my 30th birthday.  If I e-mail you some questions, can you try really hard to answer them honestly?  I'm sorry.  I'm still struggling with some things.  Consider a step on your journey to become a better person?" 

If she sent you this, what would your response be?

"Happy birthday, A.  I am glad you're here to celebrate it.  I will take a look at your questions, but please don't be offended if I don't answer them or only answer some of them."

Two weeks ago, she said she was starting a journey to become a better person and I was a reason for that, so I thought I could appeal to that. 

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So when will this end it goes on and on/Over and over and over again/Keep spinning around I know that it won't stop/Till I step down from this for good - Lifehouse "Sick Cycle Carousel"
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2015, 09:44:51 PM »

I'm thinking you just received your confirmation that it's going to take a LOT longer than 2 weeks... . 
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« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2015, 11:44:04 PM »

It seems like such a simple thing to extend goodwill. But if the discussion (or answering questions) potentially builds upon feelings of shame, I imagine those questions would be difficult to answer. Try to put yourself in her shoes for a moment and feel what it might be like for her. It may help to depersonalize her unwillingness to address your questions.
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SummerStorm
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« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2015, 07:08:36 AM »

It seems like such a simple thing to extend goodwill. But if the discussion (or answering questions) potentially builds upon feelings of shame, I imagine those questions would be difficult to answer. Try to put yourself in her shoes for a moment and feel what it might be like for her. It may help to depersonalize her unwillingness to address your questions.

I think what hurts more than anything is that she couldn't even throw a "happy birthday" in there.  She knows I have no friends and that the only birthday wishes I'll be getting today are from my parents.  I'm sorry, but it's stuff like this that makes it hard for me to have any sympathy for her. 
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« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2015, 08:00:56 AM »

My ex initiated contact the day before my birthday in some flimsy basis then proceeded to tell me not to keep textin her back as she was with someone. When I told her that wasn't nice she kicked off about how I had to move on and stop bothering her etc etc. no birthday wishes either though... .
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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2015, 08:20:27 AM »

My ex initiated contact the day before my birthday in some flimsy basis then proceeded to tell me not to keep textin her back as she was with someone. When I told her that wasn't nice she kicked off about how I had to move on and stop bothering her etc etc. no birthday wishes either though... .

Argh  that must have been so frustrating!

How are you doing Remi? did you stay strong over the weekend btw? I remember you saying you had a personal goal of staying strong until Sunday
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2015, 08:21:33 AM »

HAPPY BIRTHDAY   X
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SummerStorm
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2015, 09:03:31 AM »

HAPPY BIRTHDAY   X

Thanks   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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So when will this end it goes on and on/Over and over and over again/Keep spinning around I know that it won't stop/Till I step down from this for good - Lifehouse "Sick Cycle Carousel"
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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2015, 09:08:26 AM »

Happy birthday SummerStorm!
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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2015, 09:15:44 AM »

Hi SummerStorm,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY! It's awful to have no closure and to be left with remaining questions. I know it hurts a great deal.

I also think your friend may have taken it as criticism and I wondered whether you would be open to how I would have read your email had I been the recipient of it (bear in mind that I have asperger's syndrome and am also overly sensitive to criticism). Please bear in mind that I offer this in the spirit of love. If you feel this would be unhelpful, don't read any further:


'Tomorrow is my 30th birthday' - I'm trying to make you feel guilty so I can get what I want from you.

"If I e-mail you some questions, can you try really hard to answer them honestly?" - because you usually lie to me/are a liar.

"Consider a step on your journey to become a better person?"  - there's something wrong with you and I'm qualified to judge you.


I suspect your friend could have been triggered by how you phrased your email even though you clearly attempted to own your own struggles.

I'm not saying your friend would have answered your questions had you phrased it differently, but it might have increased the chances a little.

Lifewriter


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« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2015, 09:18:15 AM »

Hey SummerStorm, Happy Birthday.  You summed it up:

Excerpt
I was hoping . . .

I spent a lot of time "hoping," too, in a marriage to a pwBPD.  Hoping she could heal.  Hoping the turmoil would pass.  Hoping we could work together towards our future.

Yet all my hopes were dashed.  In a microcosm, the same has happened to you.

It's OK.  Learn from it and move on.

LuckyJim
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SummerStorm
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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2015, 09:49:47 AM »

Hi SummerStorm,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY! It's awful to have no closure and to be left with remaining questions. I know it hurts a great deal.

I also think your friend may have taken it as criticism and I wondered whether you would be open to how I would have read your email had I been the recipient of it (bear in mind that I have asperger's syndrome and am also overly sensitive to criticism). Please bear in mind that I offer this in the spirit of love. If you feel this would be unhelpful, don't read any further:


'Tomorrow is my 30th birthday' - I'm trying to make you feel guilty so I can get what I want from you.

"If I e-mail you some questions, can you try really hard to answer them honestly?" - because you usually lie to me/are a liar.

"Consider a step on your journey to become a better person?"  - there's something wrong with you and I'm qualified to judge you.


I suspect your friend could have been triggered by how you phrased your email even though you clearly attempted to own your own struggles.

I'm not saying your friend would have answered your questions had you phrased it differently, but it might have increased the chances a little.

Lifewriter

I definitely see what you're saying.  I added the last part because she told me that she is working to be a better person and that I'm a reason for that.

It's so hard to separate the person I knew months ago from the person she really is.  BPD would be much easier to deal with if they just acted like jerks from the beginning.
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So when will this end it goes on and on/Over and over and over again/Keep spinning around I know that it won't stop/Till I step down from this for good - Lifehouse "Sick Cycle Carousel"
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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2015, 10:21:48 AM »

I know, SummerStorm. If only... .

I really struggled with my BPDxbf because I said the wrong things all the time and didn't even realised when he'd taken offence. Aspies aren't only sensitive to criticism they're not very good at figuring out how other people will take what they say or do and are not very astute at spotting when offence has been taken. Our relationship is an uphill struggle... .sometimes I feel completely hopeless because I'd like us to work it out, but I suspect the barriers to doing that are going to be too substantial.

By the way, what have you been doing to celebrate your birthday?

Lifewriter
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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2015, 11:37:59 AM »

Happy Birthday SummerStorm 
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2015, 12:26:14 PM »

My ex initiated contact the day before my birthday in some flimsy basis then proceeded to tell me not to keep textin her back as she was with someone. When I told her that wasn't nice she kicked off about how I had to move on and stop bothering her etc etc. no birthday wishes either though... .

Argh  that must have been so frustrating!

How are you doing Remi? did you stay strong over the weekend btw? I remember you saying you had a personal goal of staying strong until Sunday

Yeah. So far so good and she hasn't tried to contact me through any back doors which is both a relief and depressing at the same time. We will cross paths Sunday as I'm involved in a football team she has stuff to do with. So I can either give up something I love it see how I goes. I shouldn't find myself alone but will have to see her with my replacement. Time will tell I guess. But thanks for asking. And happy birthday everyone Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2015, 12:29:44 PM »

It seems like such a simple thing to extend goodwill. But if the discussion (or answering questions) potentially builds upon feelings of shame, I imagine those questions would be difficult to answer. Try to put yourself in her shoes for a moment and feel what it might be like for her. It may help to depersonalize her unwillingness to address your questions.

I think what hurts more than anything is that she couldn't even throw a "happy birthday" in there.  She knows I have no friends and that the only birthday wishes I'll be getting today are from my parents.  I'm sorry, but it's stuff like this that makes it hard for me to have any sympathy for her. 

I understand how hurtful it is when someone you loved cannot extend goodwill such as saying "happy birthday."  Maybe she's not in a place where she can extend goodwill due to feelings of shame.  

Happy Birthday - wishing you a wonderful day!  
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SummerStorm
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« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2015, 01:42:30 PM »

I know, SummerStorm. If only... .

I really struggled with my BPDxbf because I said the wrong things all the time and didn't even realised when he'd taken offence. Aspies aren't only sensitive to criticism they're not very good at figuring out how other people will take what they say or do and are not very astute at spotting when offence has been taken. Our relationship is an uphill struggle... .sometimes I feel completely hopeless because I'd like us to work it out, but I suspect the barriers to doing that are going to be too substantial.

By the way, what have you been doing to celebrate your birthday?

Lifewriter

I went out to eat with my parents.  The last time I was there was my mom's birthday, and my former friend BPD wished my mom a happy birthday.  I went down to the gift shop last time and sent my ffBPD pics of weird things I found.  So, it was very triggery.  :'(

I don't like birthdays.  They remind me of how lonely I am.  Even my one co-worker who always remembers didn't remember this year.
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So when will this end it goes on and on/Over and over and over again/Keep spinning around I know that it won't stop/Till I step down from this for good - Lifehouse "Sick Cycle Carousel"
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« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2015, 01:55:19 PM »

I'm sorry to hear that today was upsetting rather than being an enjoyable experience. Birthdays can be hard.

In the past, I have been tempted to count my birthday cards and use the lack of them as a way of tormenting myself for having 'no friends'. Of course, it has never been true that I have 'no' friends, but I do feel the lack of a close confidante these days. I've learnt to stop counting my birthday cards, but I do still find myself struck by negative comparisons when I see masses of cards in other people's living room windows.

I hope being involved in BPD Family helps reduce that sense of isolation a little. It does for me.

Love Lifewriter
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