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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: 7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard  (Read 3239 times)
seeking balance
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« on: April 16, 2011, 10:30:16 AM »

Article 9  Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder on the website has helped me heal, stay NC and accept BPD more than any other thing that I read (trust me, there has been a lot).  

I have shared this article has been a source of grounding for me - to this day, if I start to doubt my truth - I go back to these 10 false beliefs, they are all true for me and I can see how the cumulative effect of them lead me down a path that made detaching quite difficult.

7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard  [Read original text here]

"People with BPD hear and read just fine. Everything that we have said has been physically heard. The issue is more about listening and engaging.

When the relationship breaks down and emotions are flared, the ability to listen and engage diminishes greatly on all sides.

And if we try to compensate by being more insistent it often just drives the interaction further into unhealthy territory. We may be seen as aggressive. We may be seen as weak and clingy. We may be seen as having poor boundaries and inviting selfish treatment. We may be offering ourselves up for punishment.said. It may be denial, it may be the inability to get past what they feel and want to say, or it may even be payback."


For me, not being validated myself caused extreme anger and anxiety for me.  This was directly tied to an invalidating childhood - that simple.  Once I was able to accept this, I no longer feel the need to get my point across with anyone (friend, family, etc) who is invalidating.  I try once, if they do not respond in kind - I realize it is ok to move the relationship along in a different way.   It has been a big wakeup call to realize my own truth is not tied to someone acknowledging my truth.

I must have written 20 letters during the last year trying to explain, find out, own more than my share of issues ... .all of this was to get my ex "back".  Funny thing is, there is no back - this person is who she is, idealization is over and this is who she is.  

Please share your truth in this false belief.




More information

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder

1) Belief that this person holds the key to your happiness

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

3) Belief that the relationship problems are caused by you or some circumstance

4) Belief that love can prevail

5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"

6) Clinging to the words that were said

7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.

10) Belief that they have seen the light

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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2011, 02:38:25 PM »

At the very end, I wrote these long, heartfelt emails explaining what I was feeling and why I had said and did certain things but he would never respond. The only time he did was when I wrote a short note saying that I felt utterly destroyed and broken. He fired back that nobody had been through more pain and suffering than he had and then he took things from my previous notes and through them back in my face, but only after he had twisted what I'd said.

This was a very eye opening experinece because after I learned about BPD I went back and read these notes and I could see his twisted thinking and how it had truly morphed what I was saying into something completely different and skewed. 

I'm a professional communicator - determing how to say and position things so my audience understands clearly is what I do for a living.  The distortion in his lens became so obvious through this exercise as I compared what I had actually written and how he had interpreted it.

I stopped trying to write to him at this point because it became painfully clear that no matter what I said, he was unable to step outside of his own pain and distortion to really hear me and to keep going would just cause us both more pain. 

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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2011, 02:40:13 PM »

I am terrible for this. I do this with my kids all the time. I never know when to stop sledgehammering my point home, and then the other person gets angry with me.

Just wanted to say this is something we should all learn for all walks of life x
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2011, 04:30:44 PM »

In the past month, I have tried to explain my feeling with the soon to be exBPw but it's wasted energy.  She complains my "droning on" drains her of energy.  Translation, she's expending huge energy on keeping up the shields because of she heard it, she would have to accept she isn't right and she has problems.  Since it is given she is never wrong, what use i's there explaining your position?  I too started drafting a big long good bye letter with the intention of giving it to her when I leave, but she won't even read it.  "stop being my therapist!"  I'm not, just trying to give you an answer when you ask why your life i's always screwed up.   
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2011, 06:32:53 PM »

had this problem area in atleast two senses during the relationship.

"broke up with her" 1000 times, usually not serious, but every time atleast semi serious, all in a hope (unconscious or otherwise) that she'd "see the light", finally understand how far she drove me away, get more help, take healthier approaches, see all the damage she would do with her episodes, etc. the time i was probably "most serious" and i mostly ignored her for the next week, she began attaching to the new guy, hiding us both, and ended up with him about two months later.

there was also of course, fighting with her when she was dysregulated, and even though i actually knew better, STILL believing that this time i could FINALLY get through to her with a bullet proof bit of logic or rationality, and every time it would sail right over her head.
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2011, 04:21:14 PM »

I used to think this when I was in the r/s. No matter how I explained things he would never get it. He would then twist it and attack me verbally.

It didn't matter what proof I had he never budged from his perspective.
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2011, 04:41:51 PM »

I too have spent wasted time trying to explain myself and be validated.

I, too, had an invalidating childhood.

Just yesterday I went to explain to my step-mother how I felt very disconnected from her and my family because of what my family friend did, and her response was "Maybe we can paint your apartment yellow".  I said my piece and although sad will wait and see what comes of it.  There are very few validating people in my family, and few who can handle talking about difficult issues. I have had a therapist alot in my life just to find validation for my feelings and take on things.

My ex, sees things through a weird piece of glass, I have started telling people "Oh she always thinks people are stalking her, or want something from her", this has been a painful year, but also I have learned alot.

I had a date last weekend and told a friend, "It was nice to be with a solid person who is not crazy".

This is such a good thing for me to remember, say my truth and let the chips fall.

Thanks Seeking Balance for sharing your path through this invalidating type of relationship.

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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 08:59:24 AM »

Oh boy!  This is the one belief that I is keeping me stuck.

I too had a very invalidating childhood.  My mother, her siblings, and even my older brother would dismiss every word and feeling I would convey.  I learned through the years to perfect how I communicate, in fact, one of the main reasons that I've sustained employment is because I communicate very well, with clients who are located throughout the world, whose english is their second language. Furthermore, I came to the US at the age of 12, and I learned very quickly on how to perceive people's intent before chosing my words carefully.

I am stuck.  I KNOW that I am communicating clearly. Just recently, I entered the dangerous territory of divulging the BPD symptoms to my exBPD/f.  I took the blows... .and they came hard. All this to no avail?  I don't know... .I know that I was heard.  Was I understood? I don't know.  But I am definitely stuck.
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 09:02:27 AM »

What do I need to learn to let it go?  Apart from my close family, I've always been successful.  It is the one thing that I know I do well.  What is wrong with me that I obsessively go back for more?
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2012, 11:47:06 AM »

What do I need to learn to let it go?  Apart from my close family, I've always been successful.  It is the one thing that I know I do well.  What is wrong with me that I obsessively go back for more?

I don't know for you, but for me - I was unwilling to accept reality.  I bought the disney dream and thought if I said it right and did it all right, then it has to turn out right... .sometimes, we can do all the right things, but the other person still has free will.  At some point, I finally realized I had to just take care of my own emotional needs - and I didn't even know what that was any longer.

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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2012, 12:25:22 PM »

When the honeymoon was ending, I basically stayed calm and kept being myself... .relatively cheerful and stable... .hoping she would get back to the happy, sweet, version of herself. Everybody thought she was really happy and thought I was a nice guy. I guess I was under the same impression. My message was to calm down and relax and figure things out. But pwBPDs don't do typically do calm and relaxed. For a period of time after the breakup I tried talking to her about the relationship, and was always yelled at... .being called ridiculous and condescending... .though I invested so much time, energy, money, and love in the r/s. Certainly undeserved but I felt bad about myself for a time. I guess I didn't get her message. She's seemed open to me hanging out to see her baby again, but still seems very cruel and cold. I'm just not sure I need that kind of person in my life as sad as I may be to lose who I thought she was.
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2012, 12:11:51 AM »

What a wonderful post SeekingBalance

I am the same. My T has explained that someone with healthier self-esteem would not accept poor treatment by someone else. It took many sessions and dozens of examples for me to finally understand, that I need to work on my sense of self and not on them. My natural inclination toward other directedness means that I seek validation from other people rather than from myself. My own opinion has never been enough. It's like I needed it confirmed or something. But like you, I am aware of this now, and am getting better at believing in myself and my decisions.

I was given the silent treatment and painted black. Imagine how hard that was to handle for someone who's life is defined by the opinion of others! LOL

But I have worked through that to such a degree that I don't value or desire their explanation.

You are right. There is no back. Just forward as our new, fully formed selves. And how exciting is that?

Bb12
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2012, 01:05:43 PM »

Did this too. Emails, text, even letters because I felt that if I could only explain it just once more, or in a diffrent way she would "see."

I understand now from reading here and other sources that people with BPD do not see the world the same as we do. So trying to "explain" that the sky is blue when they see green... .well that just isn't going to happen.
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« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2012, 05:35:43 AM »

I'm embarrassed that I ever raised my voice to "be heard".

All the time Lost "trying to explain".

All the words expelled only to have them Parroted back.

Now... ."Frankly, I don't give a damn".

Thank Goodness I finally got here.

Been waiting for this.
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« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2012, 11:34:43 PM »

I also had an invalidating childhood and my mother still is invalidating, but I'm learning to let her responses/behavior go and not impact me. However, it has bee much harder with the ex. I see my mom maybe 2x a year (reason partially due to her behavior) and talk to her on the phone 1-2x a month. My ex I see daily and lives with me so there is much more exposure. There are times I can completely separate myself from her behavior and just listen and don't even try to explain myself. However, it's a learning process and I still find myself sometimes getting defensive and thinking "maybe THIS will be the time she'll get it!" but deep down I realize it's a futile effort. Honestly when she was raging on a daily basis I was able to put up that wall and I guess practice with it. However, after her on meds and not raging except rarely... .when she does rage I find I have to really, REALLY remember that wall. I think it's partially because the rare times throws me off guard while being consistant I could expect it. Again... .it's a learning process!
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2012, 09:19:12 AM »

Oof.  I absolutely have lived this way.  Not only during my r/s with my dBPDw, but the 40+ years prior.  I have made great strides since the separation with my interactions with others - especially my children.  Well, it feels like great strides even though it is mostly small things.  I let things go and do not pursue, or over pursue.  However, the slightest interaction with my ex, even indirect, usually triggers me straight into a meltdown and "getting back" at her.  This is hurtful to her, self-destructive, and just darn unbecoming of a man.  Still feeling embarrassed and sheepish about my latest meltdown(s), the entire r/s, and even my more distant past.  My recent improvements give me hope, though.
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« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2013, 01:42:32 PM »

I agree with Michael,  I just let it go and not pursue. I know he heard what I said,  and if he chooses to ignore me or create a conflict,  then that is on him. I am not going to compromise my principle of behaving like a mature,  caring adult just because he isn't acting that way. I will maintain my integrity EVEN IF I am the only one doing so.
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« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2013, 05:07:38 PM »

For a long time I wondered if I was at fault, if she didn't know that I loved her. Over time I was able to process and recognize the disorder at work. I spent 4-5 nights a week with, drove 50 miles one way... .  helped her care for her daughter. I was adopted in to her family and her church family. I remodeled my condo, bought new appliances, and paid and planned for our wedding and honeymoon. After our wedding shower, when I saw the first visible sign of devaluing (when she dated a co-worker that SAME WEEK)... .  I wondered if she *knew* how much I loved her and enjoyed her company. But now I know it didn't have anything to do with me. I was just in that dysfunctional dance at the time. Likely the better I treated her, the more I was devalued. But, what can you do, except move on and find someone healthier?
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« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2013, 06:19:25 AM »

That's a great article! I am six months out and I too have

Been drawn in to write long emails, texts, phone conversations

Until the new year when I realized that the only time now

That I get wound up, is by our interactions. So I have cut

The cord and stopped responding. Being around healthy

Positive people is enriching and enlightening. I didnt like

The person I became when we got into it. I've never been

Particularly confrontational but this took me to a whole new

Level of exasperation. and now, after many years, it's so

Nice to finally concentrate on my own emotional needs -

Even find out that they are, been in the dark so long.

It is hard to let go, feeling that they never really 'got it'.

But they never will and I realize now that it's actually very

Refreshing and healing to finally be able to move beyond it.

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« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2013, 05:59:27 PM »

This incredible article affected me the same way. After my divorce a year and a half ago, I have learned and grown a lot, but after my BPD ex husband recently started having another relationship, I've had strange feelings of jealousy and sadness. Even though I was the one to leave, and didn't want to ever see him again! I just composed a goodbye letter last week, because I still want him to 'get it', and remember all the horrible things he's done. But this article helped me realize I just need to get over it and move on. He will never change. It will always be my fault. I will always be a liar and a cheat. I have never been able to win an argument with him in my life, why would I expect him to listen to me now? Why do I care? I have to realize all this will take time, and I want to thank everyone on this site for their contributions. Al-anon has helped tremendously as well. I'll get there, eventually.
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« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2013, 02:52:36 PM »

When I read this myth, I thought I was witnessing my own experience all over again. When my BPD broke up with me after 3 years of nagging over not getting her a ring, I finally went and bought her the ring that she wanted and BEGGED for her return. Guess what she did? She called the police on me and filed a restraining order and after that tried to reach out to me and "trap" me into violating the restraining order. I guess you can say that I was split black.
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2013, 10:53:44 AM »

This post really struck a chord with me. Before I knew my partner had BPD, before I knew what was going on, I wrote several, long, long letters telling him how I felt. I begged for him to stay with me. I told him how lucky I thought I was to be with him. I pretty much begged in every way for him to stop his behavior.

All it did was seem to make him angry and drive him farther away.

He would always say he tore my letters up because they made him angry. Then he would tell me he read them. Who knows?
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Rocknut
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2013, 10:57:05 AM »

When the honeymoon was ending, I basically stayed calm and kept being myself... .   relatively cheerful and stable... .   hoping she would get back to the happy, sweet, version of herself. Everybody thought she was really happy and thought I was a nice guy. I guess I was under the same impression. My message was to calm down and relax and figure things out. But pwBPDs don't do typically do calm and relaxed. For a period of time after the breakup I tried talking to her about the relationship, and was always yelled at... .   being called ridiculous and condescending... .   though I invested so much time, energy, money, and love in the r/s. Certainly undeserved but I felt bad about myself for a time. I guess I didn't get her message. She's seemed open to me hanging out to see her baby again, but still seems very cruel and cold. I'm just not sure I need that kind of person in my life as sad as I may be to lose who I thought she was.

This is me 100% sir. I am a very calm, logical, non agressive person. As my partner flew off the deep end, I remained calm hoping my calm in his sea of emotions would cause a gentle cure to his madness. All it did was make me weak in his eyes. He treated me worse and worse.
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2013, 01:09:34 PM »

Rock,

It's truly very hard for me to understand that someone could claim to be your soulmate, love so tenderly, plan so hard for a family (she had a toddler already), and then run away without much explanation. The best I ever got from her was an "I'm sorry everything turned out this way" in a FB message. I believe she is a truly broken individual who has a long way to go to repair herself. It's a sad fact. It's been nearly 3 years, so as time goes by it's much easier for me to accept that it just couldn't be. I tried really hard to tell her and show her how much she meant to me and that she was a good mate. The borderline pathology is just a huge unsolve-able paradox. I've finally accepted that, though I don't like to know that she suffers so much. I know there's nothing I can do about it. Accepting that has really helped me to move forward to positive things. I heard from a few of her co-workers and they all told me that they were surprised how fast she fell for me, and that she pretty much thought I was wonderful. They were also very puzzled as to how she just walked away (without much of an explanation that satisfied them either). Really it has very little to do with us. Though we were good mates, no one could ever be good enough for them, or to convince them that they are good enough. The only thing to do is move on to better things in life.
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2013, 07:38:57 PM »

I didn't believe if I said it louder it would be heard.  Like many, I thought if I wrote it--eloquently or in basic terms--that he would hear/see it and "get it".  To this day, I am not sure what emails he read and which he didn't.  In part, I can't be sure due to the unusual memory function a BPD seems to have.  On one hand, I would think he read it.  Months later it might occur to me that he had not.  What I do know is that the emails would start the recycle.

Also, he never answered any of the emails directly.  I would get statements like, "i agree with 80-90% of it".  Now, I don't know what 80-90% he agreed with and what 10-20% he disagreed with.  That was a great problem.  We never discussed beyond a statement like that b/c he simply would not discuss it or would get upset about talking if I broached... .

Ugh.

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oolia

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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2013, 08:11:34 PM »

Oh yeah, this hits home.  Spent so much time explaining, defending, trying to convince him that I was on his side, my intentions were good, etc.  Yipes, what a waste of time that was.  I'm still working on this... . but I've gotten so much better at catching myself BEFORE I start to explain, tuning into whatever anxiety/fear is triggering it, and just STOPPING.  Big life lesson, still learning.
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« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2014, 09:51:40 PM »

I have been struggling with this, which leads into many of the other false beliefs. At the end, I told her my truths, about how her behaviors affected me, her, and our r/s. I was frustrated, honest, but not rude. I know this triggered her shame. I was hoping she would hear me, and face herself, but am sure it's a major reason this had been our final breakup. Which is ok, I said those things so she would either stay with me or stay away. It was time for both of us to make the choice and stick with it. That said, I've been feeling bad about making her feel bad about herself, even though I know that's how she usually reacts. I wish there had been a better way to have expressed myself than blurting it out while backed into a corner, watching her disappear. In the final weighing of things, it didn't matter what I said or how it was said. She showed time and time again she didn't want to hear anyone else's take on who she is. I'm working on letting myself off the hook for hurting someone (with the truth) I cared about so much. I still wish she would have heard me. For her sake. I feel I meant well.
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