Repeating our FOO with the BPD?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hello friends   !

Therapy has been slowly shifting over to focusing on working on me lately. It feels good that the words that come out of my mouth (sometimes unbelievable!) now barely talk about the ex-fiancee.

I've been discussing my FOO and it almost made me laugh - I realized that the dynamic I had with my ex was exactly what my mom and dad has. They love each other, but mom can be really mean and dad just takes it. I remember growing up being a peace maker at home at times and promising myself that I would never submit myself to that sort of tension and pain. Years pass and here I am recovering from a woman who was just as cruel and mean at times.

My question to you guys is that, have you guys explored similar revelations during therapy? Is life just a pattern?

I certainly don't feel like my childhood plays a large role in my relationships, but certainly more than nothing... .

[rotiroti]

Hello friends   !

Therapy has been slowly shifting over to focusing on working on me lately. It feels good that the words that come out of my mouth (sometimes unbelievable!) now barely talk about the ex-fiancee.

I've been discussing my FOO and it almost made me laugh - I realized that the dynamic I had with my ex was exactly what my mom and dad has. They love each other, but mom can be really mean and dad just takes it. I remember growing up being a peace maker at home at times and promising myself that I would never submit myself to that sort of tension and pain. Years pass and here I am recovering from a woman who was just as cruel and mean at times.

My question to you guys is that, have you guys explored similar revelations during therapy? Is life just a pattern?

I certainly don't feel like my childhood plays a large role in my relationships, but certainly more than nothing... .

[Tangy]

I certainly believe that that is exactly what many of us are doing. I watch a lot of youtube videos. Not only for me, but also for future clients of mine. I noticed on here someone referenced the book "The Human Magnet Syndrome." I watch a lot of videos by the author as well as a bunch of videos by an agency called "Family Tree Counseling" The latter basically talks about whomever you're attracting is your PERFECT match to work through FOO issues... .and the source of then intense chemistry between us and our SOs is almost Mother Nature's way of causing us to walk through it all again in an attempt to heal. The relationship with our SO is bound to rupture and how we handle it determines whether we heal or remain stuck in the same patterns (either with them or someone else). If we're lucky the other person will also be broken enough to want healing in which case we can work through our FOO together and grow closer together... .otherwise we get to do it alone, which is also equally fine . I for one during the early days of NC found myself screaming at my exBPD (in my house safely not really at him)... .I was crying, breaking down, feeling all the abandonment, and before I even knew it, I had transferred my anger yelling at my dad (for what I had been blaming the exBPD for). The abandonment I was feeling and was attributing to my exBPD was really what I hadn't grieved from age 8 with my dad.

[rotiroti]

I certainly believe that that is exactly what many of us are doing. I watch a lot of youtube videos. Not only for me, but also for future clients of mine. I noticed on here someone referenced the book "The Human Magnet Syndrome." I watch a lot of videos by the author as well as a bunch of videos by an agency called "Family Tree Counseling" The latter basically talks about whomever you're attracting is your PERFECT match to work through FOO issues... .and the source of then intense chemistry between us and our SOs is almost Mother Nature's way of causing us to walk through it all again in an attempt to heal. The relationship with our SO is bound to rupture and how we handle it determines whether we heal or remain stuck in the same patterns (either with them or someone else). If we're lucky the other person will also be broken enough to want healing in which case we can work through our FOO together and grow closer together... .otherwise we get to do it alone, which is also equally fine . I for one during the early days of NC found myself screaming at my exBPD (in my house safely not really at him)... .I was crying, breaking down, feeling all the abandonment, and before I even knew it, I had transferred my anger yelling at my dad (for what I had been blaming the exBPD for). The abandonment I was feeling and was attributing to my exBPD was really what I hadn't grieved from age 8 with my dad.

No child should ever have to feel sort of pain.

Are you studying to be a counselor?

Thank you for your reply, it really fills me with courage to be reminded that personal growth will happen if one allows it. By oneself or with a loving partner, it's all the same in the end if you're willing to grow... .

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole FOO issue, I used to crack jokes about Freud or never really put much thought into it, but as I get older I see so many patterns in my life.

[HappyNihilist]

I'm so glad you're focusing on yourself, learning about yourself, and examining things like your FOO. 

This is what helped me the most in healing and detaching from my exBPDbf, and what started me on the beautiful road of self-discovery.

My question to you guys is that, have you guys explored similar revelations during therapy? Is life just a pattern?

I certainly don't feel like my childhood plays a large role in my relationships, but certainly more than nothing... .

The truth is that we are shaped by our childhoods - in positive, negative, and neutral ways. This is where we learned values, beliefs, roles, and patterns that carry throughout our entire lives. That doesn't mean that we will continue to live out those patterns, or accept those beliefs and values, or conform to those roles. But at some point (usually multiple points), we have to step back and evaluate. If we aren't conscious of what motivates us, then we will never truly understand ourselves - we will never become our own person.

I've learned that my exBPDbf was a lot like both my parents. I had a happy childhood, no abuse, but there were certainly unhealthy patterns and beliefs that I took on. I was smothered by mom - somewhat abandoned by dad - I had a very all-or-nothing approach to love. I also based my self-worth on how useful I could be to others. My dad has always been a jealous, controlling person towards my mom, and I saw that as love. Small wonder, then, that I was drawn to a man who would be jealous, controlling, and obsessive about me. It felt right because it was familiar - not because it was healthy.

And that's a big part of the whole 'pattern' and FOO aspect - we gravitate towards what feels familiar and right to us. That doesn't mean it's healthy - in cases where we've been involved with disordered people, we know that it's unhealthy for us. Yet we're drawn to it for very real reasons. Until we address those underlying reasons, we can't hope to break our patterns, even if we logically realize that we're being self-destructive.

whomever you're attracting is your PERFECT match to work through FOO issues... .and the source of then intense chemistry between us and our SOs is almost Mother Nature's way of causing us to walk through it all again in an attempt to heal. The relationship with our SO is bound to rupture and how we handle it determines whether we heal or remain stuck in the same patterns (either with them or someone else).

I've found this to be absolutely true.

[fromheeltoheal]

Reading through this thread turned on a light or two.  Growing up my mother was the boss in the house, a control freak was my label, pejorative for sure, and it wasn't until much later I learned a desire for control is borne out of fear and uncertainty, a trait I inherited, but point is I couldn't get out of there fast enough, left when I was 17, and my father seemed to me like someone who was trapped, although he found a way to be content with it.  And so when bliss turned to sht in my relationship with my borderline ex, and she turned on the need to control full blast, for the same reasons in truth, I couldn't get out of there fast enough.  Hmmm.  That's been a trend in other relationships too, could be labelled an avoidant attachment style, but I don't think so, fear of engulfment in there too, digging... .

[rotiroti]

Wow thank you Fromheeltoheal and HappyNihilist - you guys always have such thoughtful responses. They've been of tremendous help since I've joined this place:

Reading through this thread turned on a light or two.  Growing up my mother was the boss in the house, a control freak was my label, pejorative for sure, and it wasn't until much later I learned a desire for control is borne out of fear and uncertainty, a trait I inherited, but point is I couldn't get out of there fast enough, left when I was 17, and my father seemed to me like someone who was trapped, although he found a way to be content with it.  And so when bliss turned to sht in my relationship with my borderline ex, and she turned on the need to control full blast, for the same reasons in truth, I couldn't get out of there fast enough.  Hmmm. That's been a trend in other relationships too, could be labelled an avoidant attachment style, but I don't think so, fear of engulfment in there too, digging... .

Wow! Are you me?

I also grew up in a home setting where mom was the boss of the house. Obviously dad was the traditional bread winner at home, but the way everyone carried on with their lives was dictated by her. Career choices, social circles, you name it. If something went wrong, dad would always be blamed and whatnot, but growing up he always seemed content!

I remember having to play peace maker in my home since an earlier age. Dad would fight mom time to time, my older siblings would... .it was always me that had to intervene and I would always feel incredibly sad and anxious doing that. When the first outbursts from my fiancee surfaced, ALL of that came rushing back and I couldn't leave fast enough. Even typing this now and remembering the same angry-nostril-flaring face is giving me palpitations!

I recently started a book you recommended to me, "Attached: The New Science of Adult Attachment" and so far I identify with the anxious style... but I also see a pattern in my r/s that could be seen as avoidant (althought i don't think that I have a fear of engulfment)

This is what helped me the most in healing and detaching from my exBPDbf, and what started me on the beautiful road of self-discovery.

Yes! Thank you for affirming that belief. This has been an incredibly difficult and painful journey, but I am learning so much about myself. I thought I was becoming mature and that I had 'figured' life out - career goals, friends, family, etc... .This experience has really allowed me to re-assess life, and it  feels like a new beginning!

The truth is that we are shaped by our childhoods - in positive, negative, and neutral ways. This is where we learned values, beliefs, roles, and patterns that carry throughout our entire lives. That doesn't mean that we will continue to live out those patterns, or accept those beliefs and values, or conform to those roles. But at some point (usually multiple points), we have to step back and evaluate. If we aren't conscious of what motivates us, then we will never truly understand ourselves - we will never become our own person.

I've learned that my exBPDbf was a lot like both my parents. I had a happy childhood, no abuse, but there were certainly unhealthy patterns and beliefs that I took on. I was smothered by mom - somewhat abandoned by dad - I had a very all-or-nothing approach to love. I also based my self-worth on how useful I could be to others. My dad has always been a jealous, controlling person towards my mom, and I saw that as love. Small wonder, then, that I was drawn to a man who would be jealous, controlling, and obsessive about me. It felt right because it was familiar - not because it was healthy.

And that's a big part of the whole 'pattern' and FOO aspect - we gravitate towards what feels familiar and right to us. That doesn't mean it's healthy - in cases where we've been involved with disordered people, we know that it's unhealthy for us. Yet we're drawn to it for very real reasons. Until we address those underlying reasons, we can't hope to break our patterns, even if we logically realize that we're being self-destructive.

Wow.

That was one of the biggest appeals about my BPDex. She felt incredibly familiar - I remember telling my friends that I had found 'the female version of me' when we were engaged. I think deep down I knew there was something really wrong about all of this, I had been friends with my fiancee for almost a decade and had seen endless red flags...

at the end of it, I'm glad I was able to connect the dots and to have a chance to break this pattern in my life. Even before this r/s I'm starting to realize the pattern... .I also grew up with the notion of all-or-none love and it sure made me addicted to the intensity of it all!

[Tangy]

No child should ever have to feel sort of pain.

Are you studying to be a counselor?

Thank you for your reply, it really fills me with courage to be reminded that personal growth will happen if one allows it. By oneself or with a loving partner, it's all the same in the end if you're willing to grow... .

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole FOO issue, I used to crack jokes about Freud or never really put much thought into it, but as I get older I see so many patterns in my life.

Yes I am studying to be a counselor. Yes personal growth is a very exciting thing. It always feels scary especially when we have the yucky feelings after the fallout of a breakup... .but we can do it . I don't know... .Freud had something's right, but much of his stuff isn't scientifically validated... .I think more along the lines of attachment theory (John Bowlby) and objects relations when it comes to FOO issues

[valet]

This is great work rotiroti.

I am currently not in therapy, but I have noticed and recalled many things about my FOO that may have affected how I learned to choose the people that are in my life right now. There are noticeable patterns, and I think that it can help us a lot when we start to turn the focus onto finding them.

All in all, I'm going to say that this information is totally awesome and it can drive change, but we have to be careful not to lose ourselves in the hunt for it. I did this (losing myself in 'the quest' for information), and I've had to set really strict boundaries around how long I look into and think about that stuff, because if I let the thoughts run and run they simply just don't end. The first priority is always us—we cannot take a back seat to our revelations.

Actions speak louder than words, even if the words are inside of own our heads.

Keep it up!

[rotiroti]

This is great work rotiroti.

I am currently not in therapy, but I have noticed and recalled many things about my FOO that may have affected how I learned to choose the people that are in my life right now. There are noticeable patterns, and I think that it can help us a lot when we start to turn the focus onto finding them.

All in all, I'm going to say that this information is totally awesome and it can drive change, but we have to be careful not to lose ourselves in the hunt for it. I did this (losing myself in 'the quest' for information), and I've had to set really strict boundaries around how long I look into and think about that stuff, because if I let the thoughts run and run they simply just don't end. The first priority is always us—we cannot take a back seat to our revelations.

Actions speak louder than words, even if the words are inside of own our heads.

Keep it up!

Thanks Valet! I know you've been keeping online activities to a minimum, so really appreciate you taking the time to stop by man!

[joeramabeme]

Rotiroti, WOW!  Sounds like you and I share very similar stories. 

Have I explored similar revelations?  LOL!  Half my marriage (5 years) was a refutation by my BPD spouse that she was not like my Mother and that I was unfairly projecting my fear of Mother traits onto her. 

We went to MC for years and this was the primary topic.  All about Joe and how Joe projects his Mother onto spouse and how spouse is nothing like Mom etc.   Therapist jumped right on the bandwagon and stated things like; Joe doesn’t see Jane’s Jane’ness or does Joe really see how much Jane loves him?  Etc… YEARS! 

It was true, I was projecting my childhood Mother onto spouse and it is also true that her relationship style was identical and so therefore deserved that portrayal. 

Of course, spouse used all this to keep focus on me and not her.  And as a good non, I kept working to correct all MY flaws and tried to love her as I was told she REALLY was and not how I had been perceiving her.  What a mind fudge that was and I was stuck in it.

There is NO doubt in my mind that I replicated childhood modelling of marriage and I played the role of my Father.  At a deep level, I was scared to death.  A very justifiable fear as I watched my Father get emotionally consumed by an extraordinarily needy mother and pay the ultimate price due to that stress.

[gameover]

That was one of the biggest appeals about my BPDex. She felt incredibly familiar - I remember telling my friends that I had found 'the female version of me' when we were engaged. I think deep down I knew there was something really wrong about all of this, I had been friends with my fiancee for almost a decade and had seen endless red flags...

I can definitely relate to these sentiments--with my BPDexgf but also with two other girls I was involved with before her who in retrospect I'm pretty sure were Cluster B (I've tended to run from girls who felt emotionally healthy  ).  I'm not sure of how much of all of that was mirroring but all 3 also reinforced those sentiments verbally.  The pull and level of comfort I felt with these girls were immense--and all 3 displayed maternal qualities with me.  I pretended to be a lot more of a mess than I am, which gave them the chance to feel like the more stable ones (not doing that again  ).  But in all of these dynamics, something flipped and in the end I took on more of a paternal role and they became more like little girls.

Which is exactly the dynamic I had with my mom--who displays a lot of borderline qualities.  She would dote on me excessively and then turn on me, projecting something my father did on me and arguing to me like I had done those things (they were divorced by the time I became aware of things).  From the time I was three, she would always say, "You're the man of the house"--and there were a lot of times that she leaned on me for emotional support.  As son, I kind of played a pseudo-husband role (no incest or anything).  Later when I got older she would guilt me for seeking a life apart from her.

When I was 20 we had a sort of break up--a very painful unenmeshing and since laying some boundaries she's been very supportive of me being an entity apart from her.  I can definitely see how that script fits all of the romances I've had that felt significant.

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My dad, on the other hand, is textbook NPD, diagnosed Bipolar, who was utterly broken by the time I remember meeting him.  He was catatonic for the first 3 or so years following the divorce--taking out his rage and narcissistic injuries against me and my sister, who (given the conditioning of my mother) I felt the need to protect.  I've had difficulty with male authority ever since and can't tolerate when people rage against me--a boundary that proved really successful with my BPDexgf.  

Later he went through some manic stages--the summers I spent with him were absolutely nuts.  Waking up at 5 AM, going to bed at midnight, hanging out in the projects downtown, living in an abandoned office building, working on crazy inventions, etc.  In consequence, I'm comfortable in pretty much any environment and have an impulsive risk-taking side that suited my relationship with my ex.  We took turns being the the 'daring' one and the 'responsible' one.

As I got older, I felt more like a parent to him.  I despised his weakness, but felt guilty for seeing him as weak.  I spent ages 10-18 trying to become hyper masculine and totally emotionless (football helped), before reconnecting with my emotions halfway through senior year of HS.  

He's always seen me as an extension of himself--or else a kind of savior figure:  the son righting the wrongs of the father (grandiose, huh).  He and I had a very turbulent relationship for a long time and our 'breakup' was very painful--with him threatening suicide and me telling him if he was going to manipulate me emotionally I was going to cut him out of my life.  Whew!  We get along well today but I have to fight him on boundaries constantly.  I think with my ex I tried to be the opposite of what he was with my mother; she would tell me she was afraid I would end up just like him (one of my biggest fears growing up).

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With my BPDexgf, we both connected over our dysfunctional FOOs; her dad was Bipolar and a dysfunctional alcoholic and her mom is a Borderline Queen (my ex, at 21, still parents her mom).  My ex, like me, seemed very level-headed and mature for her age; we grew up quick.  Turns out neither of us were as mature as we tried to pretend we were.  I had this sort of idea that if we could make our relationship work--and could successfully parent children together--somehow we could undo what we went through as children.  

A beautiful thought, but totally dysfunctional.  Instead we just repeated all of our childhood pain with each other.  

[rotiroti]

There is NO doubt in my mind that I replicated childhood modelling of marriage and I played the role of my Father.  At a deep level, I was scared to death.  A very justifiable fear as I watched my Father get emotionally consumed by an extraordinarily needy mother and pay the ultimate price due to that stress.

I'm really glad that we had the opportunity to break the cycle and I like to think that I am doing my father justice by not going through with my marriage to a BPD partner.

Isn't it scary when the moment of realization comes? That everything is a pattern and perhaps our childhood wasn't as happy as I remembered it to be. I guess it really is about perception, but man... .what a world!

A beautiful thought, but totally dysfunctional.  Instead we just repeated all of our childhood pain with each other.  

It really is. I like to think that perhaps having had to grow up fast has prepared me for whatever the world has to throw at me, but then I re-live all of it through a broken fiancee. It was devastating, but at the same time, I think it's great to know that there is still endless things to learn about life and that I am still capable of feeling strongly!

A follow-up question for you gameover, does her moving away change anything for you?

[gameover]

Three more days! I'm pretty excited.  My life has gotten a lot less stressful over the past few weeks and I've recovered a lot of my personality that I'd somehow lost touch of over the course of the relationship.  I've somewhat limited my social opportunities out of respect for her peace of mind.  Interactions (or even imaginable interactions) with other females were always a major trigger for her and I'm not at all interested in testing those waters.  

We've had a couple nice moments these past few weeks where it felt like the friendship aspect of our relationship had survived intact; but for the most part she seems pretty terrified of me and pretty avoidant.  She'll also get visibly pissed at me for no apparent reason from time to time.  Honestly the good times are a lot harder for me; the bad don't really get to me at all.  But we'll both be better off with less proximity.  

[eeks]

Isn't it scary when the moment of realization comes? That everything is a pattern and perhaps our childhood wasn't as happy as I remembered it to be. I guess it really is about perception, but man... .what a world!

A person does not have to have experienced something that would be considered (at least by the way most people talk about these things) to be "abuse" or "neglect" in childhood for it to have had a lasting negative or limiting impact on our adult lives.  When I was growing up I had all of my physical needs and many of my wants met, and my intellectual development was fostered, and that's what people saw when they looked at me.  Someone to be envious of.  But when it came to emotions, my parents had their own unresolved traumas from their childhoods, and that meant they were not able to be sufficiently "present" to really help me resolve my life challenges and make decisions, and support me when I was going through something difficult.  I also had a psychiatrist write on an assessment that my father was "emotionally abusive" which I had and still have a hard time taking in, because everybody looked at me and thought I had a "good family".

My uBPD ex reminded me in some ways of my father, at least when he was devaluing me, just the "flavour" of the criticism.  Like, "I know everything that is wrong with you".  And I think it led to a desire to "win him over", to make the critical man "turn back into" the loving man, and it was my FOO dynamics that I can see had an influence on why I responded to the criticism the way I did. 

Question for those of you talking about your FOO on this thread:  once you had the insight that your relationship with a pwBPD had some connection with your FOO dynamics, how did that knowledge change your behaviours and feelings (if it did)?  How did it help you, to see these connections?

[rotiroti]

hi eeks,

Always enjoy reading your posts, I also felt like I had a great childhood except for spurts of emotional 'outbursts.' Mom and dad really did provide for the kids, but I still remember having to be peacekeeper for intense fighting. I hate that feeling and it's something that came back in full force when my BPDexfiancee was devaluaing me.

so in response to your question -- feeling that emotion from the past was the final nail in the coffin. I knew something was wrong with the r/s towards the end of things, but the resurfacing trauma gave me the courage to leave.

[joeramabeme]

Question for those of you talking about your FOO on this thread:  once you had the insight that your relationship with a pwBPD had some connection with your FOO dynamics, how did that knowledge change your behaviours and feelings (if it did)?  How did it help you, to see these connections?

Eeks, this is a loaded question.  I have come up with the following; once you have the understanding that your FOO dynamics are part of your partner r/s, you can only respond with the behaviors that you have learned from the FOO r/s.  So, if you have not worked on FOO dyanmics and have no tools, than the same is true for your partner-styled r/s.

In my case, my spouse pushed me to work on FOO issues.  At some point in my progress, I realized I would need to use the same tools I was learning to work on r/s with spouse.  Since my T and I both agreed my FOO was too unhealthy for me, I came to the conclusion shortly thereafter that the inference was I would need to move away from spouse as well.  Maybe this is not the most accurate portrayal but is the one that played out.

[eeks]

hi eeks,

Always enjoy reading your posts, I also felt like I had a great childhood except for spurts of emotional 'outbursts.' Mom and dad really did provide for the kids, but I still remember having to be peacekeeper for intense fighting. I hate that feeling and it's something that came back in full force when my BPDexfiancee was devaluaing me.

so in response to your question -- feeling that emotion from the past was the final nail in the coffin. I knew something was wrong with the r/s towards the end of things, but the resurfacing trauma gave me the courage to leave.

thanks 

So, it sounds like you may have had some of the "narcissistic family dynamic" going on in your FOO that I also did.  In your case, specifically, that you were responsible for the emotional well-being of your parents, rather than the other way around.  Have you read this thread?  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108970.0

Here's another link for a good (if brief) summary of the dynamics  https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-legacy-distorted-love/201105/the-narcissistic-family-tree

[eeks]

Question for those of you talking about your FOO on this thread:  once you had the insight that your relationship with a pwBPD had some connection with your FOO dynamics, how did that knowledge change your behaviours and feelings (if it did)?  How did it help you, to see these connections?

Eeks, this is a loaded question.  I have come up with the following; once you have the understanding that your FOO dynamics are part of your partner r/s, you can only respond with the behaviors that you have learned from the FOO r/s.  So, if you have not worked on FOO dyanmics and have no tools, than the same is true for your partner-styled r/s.

In my case, my spouse pushed me to work on FOO issues.  At some point in my progress, I realized I would need to use the same tools I was learning to work on r/s with spouse.  Since my T and I both agreed my FOO was too unhealthy for me, I came to the conclusion shortly thereafter that the inference was I would need to move away from spouse as well.  Maybe this is not the most accurate portrayal but is the one that played out.

It might be an accurate portrayal.  Sometimes, people can use the problems in their current intimate relationship to resolve whatever unresolved attachment/relating issues they have from childhood (see Keeping The Love You Find by Harville Hendrix, that's his book for single people but he has other books for those in relationships).

However, if you come to the realization that your current intimate relationship too closely resembles your FOO dynamics, and (crucial addition) the other person is not willing and/or able to examine it and work with you on changing it, then the healthiest behaviour for you and your growth may indeed be to end the relationship.

 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey rotiroti, Maybe I'm stating the obvious but I would suggest that we bring the unresolved issues from childhood into our BPD r/ships, where those issues tend to get played out in dramatic fashion.  In that sense, I agree that we are subconsciously drawn to a BPD r/s due to its familiar dynamic from our FOO.  In other words, we think a BPD r/s can close the wounds from childhood, whereas you could say that the opposite is true: the wounds are reopened again and again by the pwBPD, who frequently has a combative, bullying side (at least in the case of my BPDxW).  So I agree that we often do repeat the FOO dynamic with the pwBPD.

LuckyJim

[Rubies]

Ha!  I was working hard at setting boundaries on FOO when I met and married BPDxh.  Not only did I have FOO and BPDh using me as their crazy making doormat, I had inlaws!  Once BPDxh was out of my home, FOO showed up to "help" make me crazy, followed by adult DD raging at me. 

I had a wonderful therapist who assured me there was no room for sentimentality.   Boundaries were set in stone and everyone got tossed on the NC list until they learned how to behave.  Some people never learn and I don't miss them.  I have nice friends and family now.