Thoughts on why nons go back for more...

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I see time and time again people going back to these abusive relationships.  It’s been bugging me why, normal healthy people who have clearly witnessed some toxic behaviour and viscous abuse go back for more.  People say its love, co-dependency, fear of loss, the mystique, the best they’d ever had, rescuing, obsession and infatuation to name a few.  Whilst I agree on some of these points, I’m starting to develop my own opinion on why... .

I’m currently going through being dumped out of nowhere by my PhfBPDgf.  Initially I felt all the usual, hurt, betrayal, confusion, lack of closure.  The need to have them back in our lives, and some of the above did apply.  But now after two months apart, with LC (and that LC has been spiteful to say the least) I’m developing an alternative look.  In addition, other things and feelings are emerging.

It’s my opinion that one of the reasons any of us entertain the notion of returning to these broken people that clearly NEVER get better is distance and NC.  Now I’m not saying break NC,  I agree  distancing and NC make you move on.  Which is the point right?  But herein lays my theory.  It makes you move on somewhat and start to forget the behaviour.  You forget that your partner is Ill, that it won’t change, and start to reminisce the good times, yada, yada, yada.

I mean the behaviour is hard enough to get your head around when your there amongst it.  But when you actually detach, you start to forget what it was like.  It all wasn’t real, was it?   You even question if the action and rages, push/pulling etc. really happened like you thought.  And you start to paint your ex in a different light.  So when the point of recycle comes, your mindset is in a different place until your back on the roller coaster.

I’m feeling this now.  I’m confident I will not allow a recycle even if that was offered, which I don’t think it will be.  But I am, even after a few days NC, starting to feel differently.  I lose the anger; I lose the terrible memories and experiences, I FORGET how she was, the childishness, the moods, the projection, the rages, the break ups and the blame.

It’s a shame we cant hold onto the “evidence” emotionally for ever huh?  I think there’d be less and less recycles.

Thoughts?

[seang]

I see time and time again people going back to these abusive relationships.  It’s been bugging me why, normal healthy people who have clearly witnessed some toxic behaviour and viscous abuse go back for more.  People say its love, co-dependency, fear of loss, the mystique, the best they’d ever had, rescuing, obsession and infatuation to name a few.  Whilst I agree on some of these points, I’m starting to develop my own opinion on why... .

I’m currently going through being dumped out of nowhere by my PhfBPDgf.  Initially I felt all the usual, hurt, betrayal, confusion, lack of closure.  The need to have them back in our lives, and some of the above did apply.  But now after two months apart, with LC (and that LC has been spiteful to say the least) I’m developing an alternative look.  In addition, other things and feelings are emerging.

It’s my opinion that one of the reasons any of us entertain the notion of returning to these broken people that clearly NEVER get better is distance and NC.  Now I’m not saying break NC,  I agree  distancing and NC make you move on.  Which is the point right?  But herein lays my theory.  It makes you move on somewhat and start to forget the behaviour.  You forget that your partner is Ill, that it won’t change, and start to reminisce the good times, yada, yada, yada.

I mean the behaviour is hard enough to get your head around when your there amongst it.  But when you actually detach, you start to forget what it was like.  It all wasn’t real, was it?   You even question if the action and rages, push/pulling etc. really happened like you thought.  And you start to paint your ex in a different light.  So when the point of recycle comes, your mindset is in a different place until your back on the roller coaster.

I’m feeling this now.  I’m confident I will not allow a recycle even if that was offered, which I don’t think it will be.  But I am, even after a few days NC, starting to feel differently.  I lose the anger; I lose the terrible memories and experiences, I FORGET how she was, the childishness, the moods, the projection, the rages, the break ups and the blame.

It’s a shame we cant hold onto the “evidence” emotionally for ever huh?  I think there’d be less and less recycles.

Thoughts?

[Darsha500]

From he power of now


"LOVE/HATE RELATIONSHIPS Unless and until you access the consciousness frequency of presence, all relationships, and particularly intimate relationships, are deeply flawed and ultimately dysfunctional. They may seem perfect for a while, such as when you are “in love,” but invariably that apparent perfection gets disrupted as arguments, conflicts, dissatisfaction, and emotional or even physical violence occur with increasing frequency. It seems that most “love relationships” become love/hate relationships before long. Love can then turn into savage attack, feelings of hostility, or complete withdrawal of affection at the flick of a switch. This is considered normal. If in your relationships you experience both “love” and the opposite of love —attack, emotional violence, and so on —then it is likely that you are confusing ego attachment and addictive clinging with love. You cannot love your partner one moment and attack him or her the next. True love has no opposite. If your “love” has an opposite, then it is not love but a strong ego-need for a more complete and deeper sense of self, a need that the other person temporarily meets. It is the ego's substitute for salvation, and for a short time it almost does feel like salvation. But there comes a point when your partner behaves in ways that fail to meet your needs, or rather those of your ego. The feelings of fear, pain, and lack that are an intrinsic part of egoic consciousness but had been covered up by the “love relationship” now resurface. Just as with every other addiction, you are on a high when the drug is available, but invariably there comes a time when the drug no longer works for you. When those painful feelings reappear, you feel them even more strongly than before, and what is more, you now perceive your partner as the cause of those feelings. This means that you project them outward and attack the other with all the savage violence that is part of your pain. This attack may awaken the partner's own pain, and he or she may counter your attack. At this point, the ego is still unconsciously hoping that its attack or its attempts at manipulation will be sufficient punishment to induce your partner to change their behavior, so that it can use them again as a cover-up for your pain. Every addiction arises from an unconscious refusal to face and move through your own pain. Every addiction starts with pain and ends with pain. Whatever the substance you are addicted to —alcohol, food, legal or illegal drugs, or a person —you are using something or somebody to cover up your pain. That is why, after the initial euphoria has passed, there is so much unhappiness, so much pain in intimate relationships. They do not cause pain and unhappiness. They bring out the pain and unhappiness that is already in you. Every addiction does that. Every addiction reaches a point where it does not work for you anymore, and then you feel the pain more intensely than ever. This is one reason why most people are always trying to escape from the present moment and are seeking some kind of salvation in the future. The first thing that they might encounter if they focused their attention on the Now is their own pain, and this is what they fear. If they only knew how easy it is to access in the Now the power of presence that dissolves the past and its pain, the reality that dissolves the illusion. If they only knew how close they are to their own reality, how close to God. Avoidance of relationships in an attempt to avoid pain is not the answer either. The pain is there anyway. Three failed relationships in as many years are more likely to force you into awakening than three years on a desert island or shut away in your room. But if you could bring intense presence into your aloneness, that would work for you too."

[Pretty Woman]

Seang,

   Because Normal Healthy People DONT go back.

We go back because we are trying to sooth the void of the loss of them. The loss of someone who verbally, emotionally and in some cases physically abused us. We go back because we can't stand the calm and quiet... .we have been conditioned to the chaos and without them there, we all of a sudden don't feel alive.

That does NOT make us healthy.

If we were truly healthy we would respect ourselves enough to not accept less than proper treatment by a spouse/lover. We settle for what we think we deserve... .deep down inside. Our own wounds from past hurts and rejection.

Working on these core wounds with therapy helps US get better. Accepting back an abusive ex is a temporary fix. Each time they leave it's worse and worse... .

It's important to take care of ourselves and put ourselves first.

It's time.

[LimboFL]

This is why BPD Family is such a critical forum. I have no been active for a couple of months, because short of one question posed recently, that had more to do with moving on, I recognize that whatever I am feeling cannot be resolved through questions and answers, because while there are patterns, one just has to deal with things.

Where this site continues to play a role in my sphere is that I come here to be reminded of the difficulties that I faced, the rages etc. I come here to remind myself that the behaviors that I experienced were not normal and that I was right not to accept them any longer, after 4 years under the same roof. It reminds me that, while my own reactions contributed to the demise of the relationship, that those reactions were normal, that I wasn't simply overreacting.

Finally I come here to be reminded that there is simply no future in these relationships, no matter how much one loves their exBPD. Things ALWAYS get worse. No contact is an imperative for me. Desensitization through LC, in my humble opinion, put the non through unnecessary additional heartache and pain. With that said, some have the constitution for LC (or have no other choice) and if this is what is needed, of course, the path with the best result should be taken. It wouldn't work for me. The erasure of her in my head is the way out.

Why Non's go back? Because we are programmed to forgive and with the belief that people can change. This is far fetched, unless you include a disorder. So much of what we went through was beyond our scope of understanding. Our reasoning simply could not compute how any human being could act as our pwBPD's did/do. So it stands to reason that we somehow soften it all, because we still can't believe that another human would do this to us, after we loved them and did everything that we could to be good and supportive. Add the fact that love was ripped away from us, without any real lead up and suddenly there is a gaping hole that needs to be filled. They filled it once, so non's try again because the pwBPD (our minds have us believing) are the fit because they filled that exact space before.

It has a continuous fight to push my exBPDgf out of my heart and head. I don't want to know where she is, who she is with, what she is doing, nothing. Not because I don't care but because it does nothing more than stop my progress.

[Overbeck]

When I relapsed and went back to her it was because I missed the chaos.

The stillness of the aftermath can be unnerving. I wanted the noise back in my life.

Once a Non can live without the chaos, they have a chance to break away for good.

[Mutt]

Here's an interesting poll for L3 and 72% don't end their relationship on the first or second break-up.

POLL: Break-up/make-up cycles

I didn't want to end the r/s because I had wanted to keep the family intact although I knew that things were bad and thought that it was going to be better for the kids if we were to stay together as a family unit. Above all, I didn't want to leave because I fear being abandoned, I was insecure and I had a lot of anxiety with starting over and meeting someone new. I was really angry and hurt with my ex abandoning me, but in the end it was the right choice for us.

I see now that it's best for mom and dad to not be together, our morales and values didn't match and we had a lot of conflict. I didn't want to go back after my ex had ended the r/s because she had crossed a boundary with infidelity and I couldn't trust her. I knew that if I took her back that likely she will do the same thing again and I didn't want the kids to get their hopes up with their family getting back together and having to go through the emotional hurt of being separated as a family again.

I chose not to go back for the sake of the kids because I knew that they needed an emotionally healthy parents in their lives, their rock to help them navigate through the difficulties with a parent that shows traits of mental illness and to give them a better chance to succeed later in life, in school, the workplace and in relationships.

[rotiroti]

I was incredibly fortunate to have such a great support group after I left (bpdfamily including!). It also helped that n/c really worked well for me and that I moved across the states following the b/u. I had the chance to recycle twice, but I am so glad I did not go back. I really want to thank everyone for sharing their stories about recycles gone wrong, it has kept me on the steady.

What you mentioned about reminiscing about the good times is very real at the beginning of recovery. It's easy to be addicted to that intense fantasy, but that's exactly what they are - a fantasy. They painted us white in order to 'love' us, and that is just as unsustainable as being painted black.

What I'm realizing now is how powerful a personality disorder is. Especially when it comes to high functioning BPDs -- they truly do not believe they are ill. This is who they are and that personality was baked into their being way before we crossed paths with them. I realize that I was being selfish wanting things to get better, it's unrealistic to expect someone to change for someone other than themselves... .

Think about it from our perspective and personalities. For us to change our personality type, it would require tremendous work. I don't think it's feasible to change the core of your being, but it's possible to learn how to cope to some degree. It's a tough pill to swallow, but changing for the better from a BPD pov is really unlikely.

We can keep the good memories while we mourn the loss of the r/s.

and hopefully we can keep the lessons learned too

[Bigmd]

I am going through this right now. When I found she may be borderline I felt a lot better. I would rationalize it wasn't anything I did, becaused God knows I bent over backward for her. I would think of all the ST and arguments and jealousy. But as of late I think of the good times and miss them. If I went somewhere that the last time I was there was with her I feel sad. Or if I see something that reminds me of her I feel crappy again. I'm not even two months out and while I have made progress I'm not so sure I wouldn't talk to her if she texts. Or should I say when she texts ?

[Darsha500]

I think both partners have to be committed to consciousness for their to be any real benefit of being present. Unfortunately, pwBPD lack that capability. It's ironic because me and my ex initially bonded over the power of now when we first met. Mindfulness was my go to when she was dysregulated,mi had to try and distance myself enough from her feelings so that I wouldn't get sucked into them. I'm so empathetic though... .I was always invariably drawn back into her psychic torture chamber.

Here's another passage that I think will clairfy the pwBPDs inability to truly be present. Which actually reminds me of something: transference. This idea that we act out our past relationships and patterns in the present. I think this is what pwBPD do. They are trapped in their past and so have great difficulty being in the now. Just a sort of theory.


FIRST YOU STOP JUDGING YOURSELF; then you stop judging your partner. The greatest catalyst for change in a relationship is complete acceptance of your partner as he or she is, without needing to judge or change them in any way. That immediately takes you beyond ego. All mind games and all addictive clinging are then over. There are no victims and no perpetrators anymore, no accuser and accused. This is also the end of all codependency, of being drawn into somebody else's unconscious pattern and thereby enabling it to continue. You will then either separate —in love —or move ever more deeply into the Now together, into Being. Can it be that simple? Yes, it is that simple. Love is a state of Being. Your love is not outside; it is deep within you. You can never lose it, and it cannot leave you. It is not dependent on some other body, some external form.

[Darsha500]

Huh? I appears the posts to which my last post was in response to disappeared... .

I just realized that Mindfulness is a key component of DBT, so my theory may not hold up.

[rotiroti]

Huh? I appears the posts to which my last post was in response to disappeared... .

I just realized that Mindfulness is a key component of DBT, so my theory may not hold up.

I was confused too, looks like it was moved to a separate post due to a separate topic coming up:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=282876.0

[balletomane]

It’s my opinion that one of the reasons any of us entertain the notion of returning to these broken people that clearly NEVER get better is distance and NC.  Now I’m not saying break NC,  I agree  distancing and NC make you move on.  Which is the point right?  But herein lays my theory.  It makes you move on somewhat and start to forget the behaviour.  You forget that your partner is Ill, that it won’t change, and start to reminisce the good times, yada, yada, yada.

I mean the behaviour is hard enough to get your head around when your there amongst it.  But when you actually detach, you start to forget what it was like.  It all wasn’t real, was it?   You even question if the action and rages, push/pulling etc. really happened like you thought.  And you start to paint your ex in a different light.  So when the point of recycle comes, your mindset is in a different place until your back on the roller coaster.

My experience has been different - it was going no contact that allowed me to see that returning to him would be out of the question and that enabled me to consider his past actions without trying to excuse them or minimise them. My ex could be so kind-hearted and so gentle, and it felt worth enduring the times when he was the polar opposite just for the sake of that. I chose to believe that the kind considerate him was the 'real' him and that the viciousness, self-absorption, and paranoia were just part of his illness. Now that I no longer have that kindness in my life I also have no reason to keep justifying the abuse.

Secondly, I was replaced immediately: our romantic involvement ended with him telling me that he had got together with his flatmate. The sheer pain of that prevents me wanting to go back. I have never felt so hurt or betrayed by anyone.

[ReneeMurphy523]

i am sure there are several reasons why we went back, but I can only speak for me.  I guess I wanted to feel validated.  That our relationship was not in vain, and that he wanted me back because he truly cared for me.  The past year had not been a lie.  However, when I did go back I feel I was there cause he had no one else.  I was there cause he needed the void filled. 

It wasn't just about being validated though, I really did care for him and love him.

I would also say my own co-dependancy and fear of being alone was a factor, too. 

However, I went back and realized nothing had changed.  I gave him another four months, and I ended it this time.  Three weeks after me leaving, he found someone else.  So much for going back and feeling validated and special to him.  He just needed me there.  Someone, anyone... .

[rotiroti]

i am sure there are several reasons why we went back, but I can only speak for me.  I guess I wanted to feel validated.  That our relationship was not in vain, and that he wanted me back because he truly cared for me.  The past year had not been a lie.  However, when I did go back I feel I was there cause he had no one else.  I was there cause he needed the void filled. 

It wasn't just about being validated though, I really did care for him and love him.

I would also say my own co-dependancy and fear of being alone was a factor, too. 

However, I went back and realized nothing had changed.  I gave him another four months, and I ended it this time.  Three weeks after me leaving, he found someone else.  So much for going back and feeling validated and special to him.  He just needed me there.  Someone, anyone... .

 

I am very that you had to go through that... .it's a difficult moment when you realize the reality of the moment. That this is truly who they are. It was certainly a very difficult pill for me to swallow.

Understanding BPD has helped me tremendously with letting go, their actions and the need for an attachment could be to anyone. While I beleive they loved us to the best of their ability, but it is ultimately doomed to fail

[Invictus01]

I never went back because frankly, I was in such a horrid state of mind, as in pretty much suicidal, after the first one... .I couldn't give her another shot at putting me back into that spot again because I really don't know if I would survive that. Plus, I was lucky enough to have a friend who within 2-3 weeks of the initial discard pointed me towards personality disorders and a whole lot made sense... .including the fact that you will NEVER have anything close to a normal relationship with a personality disordered person, no matter what kind of flavor of PD you are talking about. At that point... .no sense in trying.

[ReneeMurphy523]

What's crazy is although he has not been diagnosed, I knew to the best of my ability that he is a BPD/NPD personality.  I still went back though.  I guess I thought maybe there is a 5-10% chance of him maybe proving himself to me, and maayyyyyybbbeeee it could work?  But I knew deep down really it would not.

Thanks for the encouraging words rotiroti.  I guess probably deep down he does care for me and maybe loves me, but you are right BPD's are so disordered it is never a healthy love, and an unhealthy love is something I or anyone else should ever settle for.

The worst part is believing what they say and really thinking they will follow through and they just don't.  My ex BPD bf had someone who did love him (me) unconditionally and he squandered it, and I know I am not the first woman he has done this with.  He did it with his GF before me.  So, I logically know it isn't my fault or problem.  He will do this to anyone.

I guess in the long run, I would like him to look back maybe one day and he could maybe think, "I really did care for her and love her.  She was special."  Yet, I don't know why I need this validation?  Maybe cause he really did mean a lot to me, and I would hope that is reciprocal?

I know now though, that I can never go back.  I think that is impossible now for me.  I do think though, from what I have witnessed from people with BPD, and my ex included,  is that they have those moments of clarity where they realize all the people they have pushed away and all the relationships they ruined, and I know they feel awful about it.  Unfortunely, these moments are sporadic and fleeting, so much so that they never make any actual changes.

[Darsha500]

The ultimate motivation behind going back for me (on multiple occasions) was hope. Hope that this time would be different. Hope that If i changed my behavior in a certain way I would get a different result, or if she committed to a behaving differently things would work out better.

After having a taste of that love though... .That experience of love. All those magical times we shared. I wanted them back, I wanted us to work.

Also, I know that my own abandonment issues and fear of loneliness played into going back as well. At one point I even thought, "well at least my life is interesting with all this drama and chaos in it."

The first time I went back to her was after she had devalued me in a super devastating way for the first time: She was cussing me out and berating me over text. At the time I was with a friend who advised me not to respond. Eventually she said, "Wait, did you cancel the appointment with Dr. Brown? (for our first couples counseling session) I have to get that appointment back, maybe you can go and tell him how fuked up I am." I didn't know whether to take her seriously or not. Before I could find out she had blocked me so that she would stop berating me over text. Apparently she couldn't stop herself.

When I heard that she was willing to get help, a glimmer of hope appeared, and I seized upon it. I thought, as any good white knight would, "This relationship is not about me, I don't care how things work out, I just want to see to it that she gets help." I was deluding myself to an extent. Or perhaps it might be more appropriate to say that I wasn't conscious of my true motives. When she came over the next day we patched things up, but she told me, "But I'll do it again." (the devaluation). She knew her patterns well.

The second time we got back together it was based on an agreement we made with one another. I would redo my 12 steps and she would get into DBT. Before this could happen, as I was pretty lax about making it happen and enforcing that agreement, she told me she no longer wanted to interfere with my program, and that she no longer thought she had BPD.

Then the third time I got back together with her was super confusing and really impulsive on my part. It was right after she had told me she had cheated on me in this heinous way. The pain was immense, and i think my way of dealing with it was to rescue her yet again. She looked so remorseful and ashamed of herself. So i forgave her, being such a hero (sarcasm intended). But when I got back into my car I immediately realized that what I had done was not well thought out. I didn't even consider the hurt I was yet to feel in response to being cheated on. Later that week she told me, "You make everything okay." I was contemplating breaking up with her but those words made me feel so guilty. I ended up braking it off a few days later though for the final time. Going on 7 weeks.

[ReneeMurphy523]

Darsha 500-It is easy to have hope, when they give you something to hope for :-(  It sounds like your ex probably really does feel shame about how she behaves.  My guess is she feels that way, shameful, but falls back to her self destructive behaviors, cause she does not know any better.

I think you are most likely a trigger for her and she then sabotages things.

Hope was definitely one of my motivaters, too.  Hope can be a great thing, but not in this situation.  It's hard to know where to draw the line. What is so crazy about the BPD is all they want, it seems, is for someone to stand by them and have "hope" for them, but when we do this, they betray us?  It's a no win, but mostly for them in the long run.

I hope-no pun intended-you are doing okay.  You made the right decision.  You knew the third time it was "off", and best to break away.  It still amazes me, maybe me being naive, that there are people like this and this is how they function... .

Also, my ex talked about getting help, but he never did.  Even after he broke up with me the first time, I remember thinking I just wish he would get better and get help, cause I don't really see a good ending for him if this continues.  He also, like your ex, kind of alluded to the fact that he messes all his relationships up.  As i mentioned in previous posts it is interesting to reflect and think about their small moments of clarity and self reflection.  They don't happen a lot, but they certainly reveal a lot.

[Darsha500]

H.O.P.E.

Holding our possibilities eternal - Such is the way my e.x. ended one of her love bomb emails to me. I bought into that idealistic romanticism every time. I played the role of the knight in shiny armor with glee. But, like prometheus, I ended up getting my liver pecked at for all eternity. 

Thanks for your condolences Renee.

I agree that I was likely a trigger for her. Thinking back over our relationship I can see all the actions I took that seemed to precipitate her sabotaging behavior. I had know idea.

BPD is such a tragic disorder. In terms of how debilitating it is, I think it ranks up near schizophrenia. Some times the quote from heart of darkness pops into my head: "The horror, the horror."

I am doing okay. The past couples of days I've seemed to take an upwards turn. I have resolved to not engage with my negative emotions. The way I see it, I've already thought through my rumination innumerable times. I tell myself, ":)arsha, you've thought this thought already. You know where it leads you. You do not need to take this path again." So now, when I feel my pain arise, I just notice it, I don't indulge it. I notice the pull it has. I notice my own twisted desire to feel the pain, as if by feeling it I might come to some cathartic resolution. But the resolution of the feelings is not there.

The argument could be made that I should allow myself to feel these feelings. That I need to process them until they no longer preoccupy me. I think I'm to the point now though that i can start to disengage from them.

[Michelle27]

I didn't exactly recycle but I know now I stayed long past the point I should have.  I know I was "done" long before I had the courage to say the words.  I even arranged a "therapeutic separation" because I needed space but in reality, I was just done and didn't have the guts to pull the trigger.

The reasons I didn't have that courage is because of the hope I had that things could and would get better.  He was more self aware in the last year or two and was able to articulate what it was like to be him and make at least what looked like attempts to get help.  More than a year of these "attempts" though didn't seem to make any difference, and I finally realized that no matter what he was doing, I needed to listen to my  own heart and mind and make a decision based on whether or not I could get past the lying, affairs and abuse and balance that with the reality that no matter what help he is seeking, I wasn't going to be guaranteed a life without raging and dysfunction.  It was a sad realization but also one that truly freed me from the FOG finally. 

In our case, there was also a child between us, which of course makes it difficult to go forever NC.  That said, the way things ended, other than an email between us in 2.5 months, and one contact from a lawyer, there has been no direct contact and for that I'm grateful because my healing is going much better than if we were in contact more.