Broke "do not resuscitate"

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Three weeks ago I mailed my ex back some personal property. I received no response, but since the items were of considerable value felt I did the right thing. A few days ago, however, I did something not so great:  reached out via email. It was stupid and spontaneous, I just felt so despondent upon hearing the news of a family death. I sent the following:  

Hey,

I hope its ok I sent the items, I found them and felt they should be returned.  I am sorry for how things ended, and for how I hurt you. You were a part of my life for so long, It was difficult to accept you chose not be any longer. I wish I would have handled the situation with grace but I didn't. For that,  I am sorry. I know we cant be friends but I would never want you to be my adversary . Please know you were never perceived in a negative way; I never saw you as a charity case or some hideous creature. Actually, I thought you were one of the most intelligent and talented men I knew.

Things here are going well... .the reason I wanted to reach out, however, is because X relative passed. Its things like that that make you realize how short life is... .so regardless of what the situation is now, It does not take away from the many wonderful years you have given me of love and friendship. Please know I never meant to harass or annoy you, in fact I am embarrassed I kept buying plane tickets to force a visit. I truly regret how things ended and for my abhorrent behavior. I know you do not want to hear from me but I  still think its important to say: I hurt you, and I am sorry. I respect your choice, but really would like peace. You were an important part of my life for so long, and I will always cherish those memories. I think of your mom and you both and always wish you well. You are a good man, and I know you will go on to do great things.

PS:  I do not need (nor expect) a response. I waited so long because  I wanted to respect your wishes. I hope I did not upset you by reaching out. Please accept my apologies if I did... .and, if you have actually read this far, thank you for listening.

Three days now, no response. It blows my mind civility is not possible even after 6 months. Now I just feel stupid.

But, what's done is done. At least now I know where I stand.

What have been your experiences breaking DNR?  What did you learn from the experience?

[Beach_Babe]

Three weeks ago I mailed my ex back some personal property. I received no response, but since the items were of considerable value felt I did the right thing. A few days ago, however, I did something not so great:  reached out via email. It was stupid and spontaneous, I just felt so despondent upon hearing the news of a family death. I sent the following:  

Hey,

I hope its ok I sent the items, I found them and felt they should be returned.  I am sorry for how things ended, and for how I hurt you. You were a part of my life for so long, It was difficult to accept you chose not be any longer. I wish I would have handled the situation with grace but I didn't. For that,  I am sorry. I know we cant be friends but I would never want you to be my adversary . Please know you were never perceived in a negative way; I never saw you as a charity case or some hideous creature. Actually, I thought you were one of the most intelligent and talented men I knew.

Things here are going well... .the reason I wanted to reach out, however, is because X relative passed. Its things like that that make you realize how short life is... .so regardless of what the situation is now, It does not take away from the many wonderful years you have given me of love and friendship. Please know I never meant to harass or annoy you, in fact I am embarrassed I kept buying plane tickets to force a visit. I truly regret how things ended and for my abhorrent behavior. I know you do not want to hear from me but I  still think its important to say: I hurt you, and I am sorry. I respect your choice, but really would like peace. You were an important part of my life for so long, and I will always cherish those memories. I think of your mom and you both and always wish you well. You are a good man, and I know you will go on to do great things.

PS:  I do not need (nor expect) a response. I waited so long because  I wanted to respect your wishes. I hope I did not upset you by reaching out. Please accept my apologies if I did... .and, if you have actually read this far, thank you for listening.

Three days now, no response. It blows my mind civility is not possible even after 6 months. Now I just feel stupid.

But, what's done is done. At least now I know where I stand.

What have been your experiences breaking DNR?  What did you learn from the experience?

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Beach_Babe,

It strikes me that since your ex possibly has AS and you told him that no reply was necessary, he could well have taken you literally, so it is possible that he isn't being intentionally rude or rejecting.

Personally, I think your email is kind and conciliatory. I don't think there's anything in it to feel stupid about. Can you allow yourself some closure now? You have given him an opportunity to connect with you if he wants to. That's all you could do, in my opinion.

Love

Lifewriter xx

[Beach_Babe]

You think he would have replied had I asked for one?

[Beach_Babe]

I guess in the end the result is the same, it does not matter. I wonder after 14 years though why I am not worthy of even a condolence. Maybe the better question is why I want someone with such a basic lack of human decency in my life?

I would love to hear other people's experiences

[AG]

I am in no way shape or form an expert. My experience with breaking contact is that "for her" it caused some sort of trigger. Either outright noticeable agitation on her part or just a complete explosion. I like many others was trying to get some sort of closure since mine has a habit like others ex's on here to just run at the drop of a dime. I have dated normal women for most of my life(meaning not BPD) so I know the difference in feeling when it comes to break up and her method is not anywhere near close to that to say the least. The only thing I would suggest is to turn the questions back onto yourself and be really honest with yourself. The main question I would ask yourself is what do you really want out of contacting your ex. I know for myself I can be in denial. What I mean by this is I can read on here and believe I'm supposed to go dnr and just want to not feel pain anymore and just go dnr despite really wanting contact deep down inside. Or I can tell myself I want closure but really just want her back in my life. This is super difficult for me at least to look deep within and ask these questions as well as answer them.

I will say this though(About DNR vs Contact) the times I was shut out which I believe are about 4 times now maybe more within a span of 3 years. It wasn't until I literally reached a breaking point and truly was moving on with my life and starting to have some type of enjoyment that my ex would literally and I do mean literally reach out to me. Times where I have given up and was about to move on were when she would come out the woodwork. It was almost a damn emotional radar or spiritual connection of some sort where she knew she was about to loose me for good. I have read others stating the same thing happening to them with they're ex's. I have read information online that suggest this is not coincidence either and have read lines like "They must come to you". I do not think this is coincidence but I definitely do not recommend going silent just to manipulate this type of thing to happen. However once again when I look deep inside I have found my self thinking of doing this type of thing which is totally the wrong reason to go dnr

Do not resuscitate should be protect mode for you not a manipulation tool however it seems to me like for the most part or at least in my case this is the only time a pleasant response happens. Not sure if this even helps but just my take on things from my experiences in the past.

[hurting300]

Beach babe, don't feel stupid ok... .No one says the golden rule is (do not resuscitate). You're NOT the bad person here. You did the NORMAL thing any normal person would do. It's his loss. Big time.

[Mutt]

I guess in the end the result is the same, it does not matter. I wonder after 14 years though why I am not worthy of even a condolence. Maybe the better question is why I want someone with such a basic lack of human decency in my life?

I would love to hear other people's experiences

Hi Beach_Babe,

I agree that there are no fast and hard rules with do not resuscitate. Don't be hard on yourself.


I think that your e-mail shows your kind heartedness and his non-responsiveness is not a reflection of your self worth

[HappyNihilist]

Beach_Babe, I'm so sorry, I know that hurts.   What a lovely, kind letter you sent... .you have nothing to feel stupid about or beat yourself up over.

For the first year after my breakup, my exBPDbf and I were in low contact. And yes, there were times when I sent him emails that weren't responded to - and it broke my heart and made me feel worthless. But then I started questioning things... .like you're doing when you ask if you want someone like him in your life.

I thought about how illogical it was for me to base my sense of self-worth and self-esteem on a disordered person whose perceptions and reality were fluid. Something I both loved and hated in my relationship was how often I felt like I didn't know where I stood with him. Why would I subject myself to such emotional turmoil?

Eventually I began to understand how unnecessary it was for me to look to anyone else for my sense of self-worth, because I am inherently worthy. Just by being me.

So are you - you have worth. You are a kind, compassionate, intelligent person. You're detaching and healing - it takes time. Go easy on yourself. 

[Lifewriter16]

Hi Beach_Babe,

None of us can know if he would have replied, but we do know that you've gently opened the door for his contact if he wants to make it. There's little else that you can do.

You are a kind, compassionate, intelligent person. You're detaching and healing - it takes time. Go easy on yourself.

I echo that. And this:

I think that your e-mail shows your kind heartedness and his non-responsiveness is not a reflection of your self worth

Love Lifewriter

x

[Beach_Babe]

AG:  yeah I noticed the same thing too. Any contact before the discard made him very agitated and angry. He would either ignore the contact completely, or call screaming and raging. It's hard to accept six months later he still feels the same... .or perhaps now just complete indifference. I respect his choice to not want to be my friend, it's just difficult to accept I'm still "garbage" to a person I was so intertwined with for 14 years. That I will always remain black, he meant everything he said at the end. Maybe i really don't deserve forgiveness, my actions truly were that bad? I spent the last 6 months in utter agony, and he never missed me at all. He regrets nothing. Now  I just feel sick. How are you doing today?

hurting:  thank you for those kind words of support. I truly believe now, that I am dealing with a comorbid NPD. He can't care, because he lacks the capacity for empathy. I know he is sick, but if it truly is his loss, why do I feel so guilt ridden and lousy?

I think that your e-mail shows your kind heartedness and his non-responsiveness is not a reflection of your self worth

What  is it a reflection of then?


Happy: thank you for that, I can relate so much for your response. I think the better question to ask myself, is why I would want someone like that in my life? Why do I want the approval of someone who rejected me so badly? I guess it makes me angry I feel duped and fooled; that someone I loved and cared for forever think of me as garbage. The thing that bothers  me however, is the possibility he will do what he did back in 2005 to 2006. He disappeared for that entire year and then suddenly out of nowhere sent me an email and started calling again wanting to be friends.  He acted like nothing had happened. I do not think that that is fair to me.  Things in his life are obviously going well enough now he sees no reason to respond. It is hard to accept he would have to "hit bottom" again for that to happen.

Lifewriter:  I appreciate that, thank you! How are you today?

[Mutt]

I think that your e-mail shows your kind heartedness and his non-responsiveness is not a reflection of your self worth

What  is it a reflection of then?

It's hard to say, I don't think that it's about you though. In the context of a letter with your true feelings, maybe it triggers feelings of loss, guilt or shame with him?

He's emotionally immature, doesn't take responsibility for his feelings and actions, maybe its easier to avoid than be accountable? For some people, it's easier to run away than face the people that you hurt.

[Beach_Babe]

I think that your e-mail shows your kind heartedness and his non-responsiveness is not a reflection of your self worth

What  is it a reflection of then?

It's hard to say, I don't think that it's about you though. In the context of a letter with your true feelings, maybe it triggers feelings of loss, guilt or shame with him?

He's emotionally immature, doesn't take responsibility for his feelings and actions, maybe its easier to avoid than be accountable? For some people, it's easier to run away than face the people that you hurt.

I dont think he feels shame at all. Just relief I am gone. Maybe my actions truly werent forgivable. How do I forgive myself and not repeat my mistakes? I lost a good friend over it.

[Mutt]

I think that your e-mail shows your kind heartedness and his non-responsiveness is not a reflection of your self worth

What  is it a reflection of then?

It's hard to say, I don't think that it's about you though. In the context of a letter with your true feelings, maybe it triggers feelings of loss, guilt or shame with him?

He's emotionally immature, doesn't take responsibility for his feelings and actions, maybe its easier to avoid than be accountable? For some people, it's easier to run away than face the people that you hurt.

I dont think he feels shame at all. Just relief I am gone. Maybe my actions truly werent forgivable. How do I forgive myself and not repeat my mistakes? I lost a good friend over it.

“I have learned, that the person I have to ask for forgiveness from the most is: myself. You must love yourself. You have to forgive yourself, everyday, whenever you remember a shortcoming, a flaw, you have to tell yourself "That's just fine". You have to forgive yourself so much, until you don't even see those things anymore. Because that's what love is like. - C. JoyBell C.

[Beach_Babe]

Last time he did this he disappeared 10 years ago for a year... .then one day poof reappeared out of nowhere. He sees me as a last resort. Am i incorrect to think he never missed me or cared?

[Beach_Babe]

I know I sound like a broken record, but I guess I just need reassurance nothing in that letter seemed rejecting.

it was obvious right I missed him and wanted contact ?

[Beach_Babe]

I made a mistake by breaking NC. What I hoped would give me closure has only opened the floodgates to more pain. Those of you thinking of doing the same, please learn from my example. Run far away and fast as you can. Never look back, because they sure don't.  Nothing good will come from reaching out because they will either be 1) indifferent or 2) take pleasure in your pain. Stay  NC, protect yourself. They are remorseless creatures,  you will be sorry. I sure am.

[enlighten me]

Hi Beach babe

Im sorry you have gone through this. Its a hard lesson but one you have seemed to have learnt from.

I wish you all the best in going forward.

EM

[Beach_Babe]

Thanks EM, it was a hard lesson but one I hope will help me move forward.

[Skip]

The lesson for you, me, everyone isn't about the benefit of "no contact" (its been torturing you to death) its about being "no contacted" and the difficulty of letting go when we are so personally slighted. It's a huge ego wound.

What just happened? Why did he not respond to the letter?

We can't know for sure, but the letter strongly encourages a non-response - both literally ("I do not need nor expect a response" and in tone (its sounds like you are in a complex emotional letter). Men often back away from this type of discussion.

What is the most response you might have received from anyone? Probably "thanks for returning my stuff, sorry to hear about xx passing away".

Why didn't you at least get that?

That's hard to say…

• it may be about avoid feeling of inadequacy in handling this while matter



• it may be about not wanting to open the flood gates to more conversations



• it may be about winning (he's not going to give in)



• it may be apathy (he doesn't want to deal with your heavy emotions)



• it may be about seeing you as weak and letting you squirm

Anyway, you're in a situation of rejection that you both created together over time. Go back and read what you were saying in 12-2014.  This not blame you, its just to say that there is this "complex log jam" that evolved overtime you probably can't unjam.

It feels like "discard" - you use this word often - total rejection and total disrespect. That is what is hurting you.

In reality, this is not what is happening. Most likely what is happening is something like:

He moved cross country and this kicked off a slow erosion of your relationship as he developed a local life. This is far more about the situation than you.

The remaining relationship between you became more of a burden for both of you than fun - this often drops the relationship in priority (again, very situational).

He has BPD - diagnosed, no question. The situation that currently exists is far too complex for a BPD person to handle with grace.

All of this is surfacing an "ego wound" inside you and raising every bad feeling that you acquired over a lifetime.

The only fix to this is going to be in your ability to see this wound for what it is - not what it feels like.

Tall order.  I know.



You are still the same person to him. He has  

[jhkbuzz]

I think that your e-mail shows your kind heartedness and his non-responsiveness is not a reflection of your self worth

What  is it a reflection of then?

It's hard to say, I don't think that it's about you though. In the context of a letter with your true feelings, maybe it triggers feelings of loss, guilt or shame with him?

He's emotionally immature, doesn't take responsibility for his feelings and actions, maybe its easier to avoid than be accountable? For some people, it's easier to run away than face the people that you hurt.

I dont think he feels shame at all. Just relief I am gone. Maybe my actions truly werent forgivable. How do I forgive myself and not repeat my mistakes? I lost a good friend over it.

Forgive yourself for what, Beach Babe?  This was your first post:

"I have a boyfriend with BPD I am currently estranged from. He has cheated multiple times and his behavior at times is completely cold, heartless and cruel. He blames me for everything wrong in his life. Just as I am about to leave, he  treats me well again but it never lasts long. He moved back home some years ago to take care of his ailing mom. So we have been long distance, with frequent phone calls, and in person visits. I would not say I was going to marry this person, but I certainly enjoyed the company. He has always had his quirks but something has changed over the past year which has escalated the idealize/devalue (but never completely "discard" cycles. He blames this on the deteriorating health of his mom, which is true, but I have also caught him in some other pretty horrible lies. We have been trying to arrange a get together for two months now. We plan a date and then a week or so before he starts withdrawing, avoiding me and blocking my phone/text The only communication allowed is email and its sporadic. When I do talk to him he is cold and cruel. I have tried to explain this behavior makes me afraid to fly out 2000 miles but he continues until I freak out and cancel the ticket (4 times now). Then insists I cancelled, not him and what is my problem he loves and wants me there. He is sweeter than pie the day I cancel and insists on "trying again" and we make new plans. Rinse, repeat. The times I have not cancelled and still tried to come, he would back out last minute with some "health problem" or insane reason why it was not "good for him". I found out the first two times he landed a great job (that everyone else, including his 1000 'friends' knew about on FB which I am blocked from); he kept the job a secret from me which hurt me deeply as I would be the first person to be happy for him. I found out by calling his new work on a hunch (something I am not proud of) asking the secretary for him then hanging up. He owes me no money so I do not understand why he lied about working for so long. He blamed all this on job stress. Then he got fired about a month later (he cant really hold a job) and the pattern continues, despite him having nothing to do all day but care for his mother (and he comes and goes as he pleases, believe me). He now wants me to buy a ticket and come out for Christmas (paying for everything, including the hotel because "mom doesn't like you so you cant stay here anymore) and has thrown a tantrum I cannot afford to put him up in the best hotel -in a VERY- expensive city and treat him to the best meals. He has a trust fund worth millions and I am awaiting a decision on disability and currently not working. I have some savings I could still go cheaply, I guess but fear he will just pull the same stuff all over again. I do not know how to walk away and I probably need to."

This is the problem: most people who are faced with that ^ kind of behavior would recognize that there is something very, very wrong and walk away. You are instead viewing his behavior as a sign that there is something wrong with YOU. You are completely and utterly incorrect.

The tendency to take responsibility for other people's actions and emotions is often rooted in childhood - in a dysfunctional relationship with a parent or another adult (ask me how I know!)

Can you trace it back?

[Beach_Babe]

Skip: of course I would like a friendship. I tried to be realistic, however, with my expectations; the response you suggested "thanks for returning my stuff, sorry about x relative" is all I hoped for. Civility. To know he no longer hates me, that things are "ok" even if there cant be a friendship. Guess I was asking for too much. Oh well, lesson learned.

Jhkbuzz: thank you for that reminder. I know im not perfect, but I tried so hard. To this day I still blame myself about those plane tickets. He is going around now telling everyone I never showed up and stopped talking to him. I feel at fault.

[Heldfast]

BB - Almost a year out, we would have been engaged a year ago Sunday. Had to reach out to her over an unpaid invoice for her school where they screwed up her paperwork. And even though I was helping out, civility was not in the works. Which just serves to remind me, don't need, or even want, that person back. I don't need to touch the stove again to be reminded it burns.

[Skip]

Skip: of course I would like a friendship. I tried to be realistic, however, with my expectations; the response you suggested "thanks for returning my stuff, sorry about x relative" is all I hoped for. Civility. To know he no longer hates me, that things are "ok" even if there cant be a friendship. Guess I was asking for too much. Oh well, lesson learned.

Beach_babe,

I think I'm saying that it is not about civility or all him (not inferring that it is all you, of course). Considering the prior communications, it was a really heavy letter and exs typically (BPD or not) don't have a high response rate to heavy post-relationship letters (for all the reasons I listed). When someone leaves us, they want to move on (not rehash).

If you want to reach out to stay in touch, saying something easier and stronger, will work better (if you try again in six months or so).

If he doesn't respond to "easy" then you have to let it go. Maybe he will in a year. Maybe never. Some people are like this - even people without BPD - and it is really hurtful. Unfortunately, with these types, there is nothing you can do. I know two very intelligent/mature people who do this in all past relationships - it surprised me in both cases.

It you want to have a ex's relationship, it has to sound like one.

Hey,

You'll never guess what I found. _________________ I sent them to you yesterday.  

I also wanted to let you know that X relative passed. She liked you. She will be dearly missed.

Hope all is well. Stay in touch.

Beach'

I think you really want to mend the break-up in some way, reduce the blow, which is different. I think we all empathize with you on this.  Its obvious how much this hurts, you. Doesn't sound like he is ready for that.

[Beach_Babe]

Why wouldnt someone be ready for civility though?  I said and did a few things I regret but nothing that would merit this treatment. You'd think I killed his family. Six months later, this is crazy. The only positive thing I take from this, is at least he did not rage,  threaten the police (or employ third parties to do so). This time he was simply silent. My therapist insists that means he no longer "hates" me, but is now indifferent. That he has moved on and no longer considers me worthy of a response. Wow, I feel better.

Whats wrong with ME I could even mourn this subhuman?

[hollycat]

Beach,

The heart wants what it wants.  It is your job now to know the heart is not "thinking" straight. Even if it feels wrong, and it does (trust me, I know!) you must go by the advice on this board.  Get involved with something new. Something creative. Something that makes you feel good. Even if it's just a little good feeling.  With BPD, no matter what we do, no matter our good intentions, it's never good enough, never the right thing.  I used to beat myself up all the time about BpdH.  He would tell me to "Fix It" and I would take it to heart. Now i know i can't "Fix It."

Can they be civil? In my experience, yes, with a stranger. When he chose to be civil.  They have a face they put on, but it isn't the real person and they can't maintain it for long. Yours is no longer concerned about showing his civil face to you.

You must protect yourself. Even if it feels wrong, do it anyway. You will eventually see the light.

[Beach_Babe]

hollycat: do you think the person i see now is the "real" one?

[enlighten me]

Hi Beach babe

I think you have seen the full spectrum of the person already. The good and the bad. We cannot separate the two. What you can do is filter out what you projected onto the relationship.

I know I had hopes and aspirations and some of these I projected onto the relationship. By this I mean I saw what I wanted to see. I ignored the red flags as I hoped she was someone different.

Taking away what I hoped she was left who she really was. The good and the bad. The bad didnt seem as acceptable as I had let it be.

I hope that makes sense

[Beach_Babe]

Perfect sense, EM. It just saddens me "this" is who they will be towards me permanently (or, at least for a very long time). I know I have faults, and did wrong. This, however, is undeserved. Breaking NC was painful, but the rejection helped me to process reality. I still think of him, but no longer hope for his contact or call (not happening). Finally I am beginning to have more good days than bad.

Was it the same for you? 

[shatra]

B Babe wrote--

I spent the last 6 months in utter agony, and he never missed me at all. He regrets nothing. Now  I just feel sick. 

---How do u know he never missed you? Or that he regerets nothiing? SOmetimes they dissociate from feelings, or they try not to talk about how strongly they feel things

Or maybe he is devaluing everything and splitting you black for now. Or if he realized how important you were, it would overwhelm him with pain?

[enlighten me]

Hi Beach babe

The realisation that I was an object to be used for their needs hurt. In their way I believe both my exs loved me for a time. Then when I didn't live up to their expectations I was devalued.

Will he always hate you? No. Not unless you did something really wrong. Painting black is a tool used to detach. It doesn't seem to last forever. That said though just because we are no longer painted black doesn't mean they want us back.

They are looking for a perfect fit. Like us all. The fact we may think we were a good match doesn't necessarily mean we were. Non of us can be certain how much of the things that we thought were a match were actually mirroring. How much of the relationship was actually good and how much did we just think was good and they were playing along to keep us happy?