Lack of basic human emotions

[hopealways]

I have come to realize that what makes the recovery after a BPD relationship so hard is that their lack of basic human emotions such as empathy, caring and remorse, makes their actions so unhumanlike leaving us spinning in confusion to rationalize it all.  These 3 emotions are vital to any relationship!  But guess what, my mother didn't have these either and that is the reason I was attracted, why I stayed, and why moving on is so darn difficult.

Anyone else feel the same way?

[hurting300]

I honestly don't go for the (my mother was BPD so I was attracted)... this person was nice and amazing in the beginning and you liked them. As with any relationship you have to be open and honest. People with BPD in my opinion are robots ... .I seen this first hand. This is going to be hard, but one thing I can promise you is one day once your out of the fog the answers will be clear.

[Mutt]

vital to any relationship!  

As with any relationship you have to be open and honest.

Hi hopealways,

I think that it showed me how emotionally immature some people are in close relationships and how important emotional intimacy is in relationships; letting your guard down and sharing your feelings.

[Stolen]

My mother and father did not exhibit BPD traits, but both were minimally emotional, neither hot nor cold.  Just flat if you will.

I think this helped set my expectations, or lack thereof.  I was willing to accept the meager (in hindsight) warmth my xW was able to muster, because it was more than I knew prior. And I continually wrote off her emotional blandness as a result of her abusive childhood, something that I (fanfare of trumpets) would help her through... .

And then - the absolute coldness she exhibited in painting family, friends, and eventually me black told the real story. Never a hint of regret or empathy. Coldness bordering on the sociopathic level.  How could a "seemingly" normal person so easily hurt others? 

And therein lies the face palm of BPD:  how could they?

[sas1729]

I think you have a very good point. My recovery was difficult because after 2.5 years I had completely lost myself. I had few shreds of the person I was and the person I had hoped would be loved. Instead, because of a lack of empathy, etc, I became trapped and eventually was molded to what my ex wanted. That was the only way to avoid a fight.

The breakup was ten months ago. I have since moved on to a new relationship, one in which I feel that who I am (after rediscovering myself) is appreciated. But the recovery took time, and even now once in a while I second guess myself. This I have found to be the most lasting effect. I second guess my "moral compass". So far it has been fine, but I can get uneasy about decisions that may impact a person. I desperately want to do the nice thing and strive for it. That's part of my nature. But after 2.5 years dating someone that did not have such a finely-tuned moral compass some of it may have been patterned on me. What actually is normal for a relationship? What kinds of expectations are normal? And this comes up almost always from what I want/need in a relationship. I didn't ask for it at all with my ex, and only now am becoming better about voicing these things.

Funny I'm dating someone whose important desires include alone time. Seems like the exact opposite of my ex, and this is very good for recalibrating my sense of normalcy. But it has another challenge - after my ex I behaved in a very needy way. I think that's getting off topic, but I wonder if it can be connected.

[Skip]

I have come to realize that what makes the recovery after a BPD relationship so hard is that their lack of basic human emotions such as empathy, caring and remorse, makes their actions so unhumanlike leaving us spinning in confusion to rationalize it all.  These 3 emotions are vital to any relationship!  But guess what, my mother didn't have these either and that is the reason I was attracted, why I stayed, and why moving on is so darn difficult.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Their lack of basic human emotions such as empathy, caring and remorse... .

One thing that makes all this hard is that we do lose our bearing in these ralationships as sas1729 points out. These relationships really challenge our empathy skills and many of us have moved into the impairment zone (where do you fit in the scale below).

I don't think a professional would say a pwBPD lacks basic emotions.  If anything they are flooded by them to the point of overload and need to protect themselves from them. Not that this makes it easier for us, but it does help us do a more accurate postmortem and see ourselves better so that we can work on that.

To help in this discussion, ad as a sanity check, here is the clinical definition* of empathy.

∆ Healthy (0) Capable of accurately understanding others’ experiences and motivations in most situations. Comprehends and appreciates others’ perspectives, even if disagreeing.  Is aware of the effect of own actions on others.

∆ Mild impairment (1) Somewhat compromised in ability to appreciate and understand others’ experiences; may tend to see others as having unreasonable expectations or a wish for control. Although capable of considering and understanding different perspectives, resists doing so. Inconsistent is awareness of effect of own behavior on others.

∆ Impaired (2) Hyper-attuned to the experience of others, but only with respect to perceived relevance to self. Excessively self-referential; significantly compromised ability to appreciate and understand others’ experiences and to consider alternative perspectives. Generally unaware of or unconcerned about effect of own behavior on others, or unrealistic appraisal of own effect.

∆ Very Impaired (3) Ability to consider and understand the thoughts, feelings and behavior of other people is significantly limited; may discern very specific aspects of others’ experience, particularly vulnerabilities and suffering.  Generally unable to consider alternative perspectives; highly threatened by differences of opinion or alternative viewpoints. Confusion or unawareness of impact of own actions on others; often bewildered about peoples’ thoughts and actions, with destructive motivations frequently misattributed to others.

Extreme Impairment (4)  Pronounced inability to consider and understand others’ experience and motivation. Attention to others' perspectives virtually absent (attention is hypervigilant, focused on need-fulfillment and harm avoidance).  Social interactions can be confusing and disorienting.

* Definition as per DSM 5 draft proposal

[Learning Fast]

I would agree that it is an overload of emotions where the BPD lacks the maturity or governor to properly process their feelings.  IMHO the individual is empathetic, caring and remorseful---but the disorder isn't.

The poster Enlighten Me has many times used the analogy of a 6 yr old child when describing BPD emotional behavior.  Before finding this site I was constantly bewildered and frustrated by my uBPDgf's erratic behavior---What the heck?  How could this be coming from an adult 44 year old woman?  Using the 6 yr old child comparison has helped me reposition 90% of her outbursts which has led to much less frustration in trying to understand the behavior.

[Mutt]

I would agree that it is an overload of emotions where the BPD lacks the maturity or governor to properly process their feelings.  IMHO the individual is empathetic, caring and remorseful---but the disorder isn't.

The poster Enlighten Me has many times used the analogy of a 6 yr old child when describing BPD emotional behavior.  Before finding this site I was constantly bewildered and frustrated by my uBPDgf's erratic behavior---What the heck?  How could this be coming from an adult 44 year old woman?  Using the 6 yr old child comparison has helped me reposition 90% of her outbursts which has led to much less frustration in trying to understand the behavior.

I like that analogy as well Learning Fast. I have a 4 year old son and he has black and white thinking and he has tantrums, he can feel overwhelmed and he can't articulate how he feels. He'll have a tantrum and the tantrum also passes and he's calmer.

When my ex is emotionally dysregulated and she's overwhelmed with emotions, I often think of the behavior of my son, I also know that it's going to pass and it helps me with depersonalizing the behavior.

It's difficult to show empathy for someone else when you're overwhelmed with your emotions.

[thisagain]

Thanks for sharing that definition, Skip!

Hope, you mentioned empathy, caring, and remorse... .I think my ex was overwhelmed with her emotions to the point that she couldn't handle MY basic human emotions. She couldn't empathize or show caring. She felt intensely threatened by my normal human feelings, wants, and responses. A lot of times I'd beat myself up for triggering a dysregulation, but then I'd realize, I was just acting like a normal human and it's not my fault she couldn't handle it.

Like the definition says, she was confused by the impact of her actions on me, bewildered when I was hurt by something she did. Her response was to either split herself black (often becoming suicidal) or split me black and "misattribute destructive motivations" as it says.

Because of the back-and-forth between splitting herself black and me black, she did sometimes show something that could be called remorse. But it wasn't proportional to the situation or really about hurting me, it was just about her core shame. It was totally beating herself up, saying she's stupid and evil and worthless and I'd be better off if she was dead. I stopped expressing feelings because I knew I'd either get that or a rage.

[SummerStorm]

Thanks for sharing that definition, Skip!

Hope, you mentioned empathy, caring, and remorse... .I think my ex was overwhelmed with her emotions to the point that she couldn't handle MY basic human emotions. She couldn't empathize or show caring. She felt intensely threatened by my normal human feelings, wants, and responses. A lot of times I'd beat myself up for triggering a dysregulation, but then I'd realize, I was just acting like a normal human and it's not my fault she couldn't handle it.

Like the definition says, she was confused by the impact of her actions on me, bewildered when I was hurt by something she did. Her response was to either split herself black (often becoming suicidal) or split me black and "misattribute destructive motivations" as it says.

Because of the back-and-forth between splitting herself black and me black, she did sometimes show something that could be called remorse. But it wasn't proportional to the situation or really about hurting me, it was just about her core shame. It was totally beating herself up, saying she's stupid and evil and worthless and I'd be better off if she was dead. I stopped expressing feelings because I knew I'd either get that or a rage.

Yes to all of this.  My former friend BPD couldn't understand why I was upset after she was in the hospital and wanted to see her.  The day I visited her in the psych ward is the last time I saw her, and to this day, I hate that.

She was also completely bewildered by me being upset at something she did. 

Like you, I just stopped expressing emotion.

[ReneeMurphy523]

"And therein lies the face palm of BPD:  how could they?"

---I think this all the time... .

but there is this... .

"It's difficult to show empathy for someone else when you're overwhelmed with your emotions."

Stolen and Mutt, I think you summed up things perfectly, IMO.

[Beach_Babe]

Oh they have emotions... .for themselves. Lack of human decency is what I think you are referring to.

[hopealways]

Oh they have emotions... .for themselves. Lack of human decency is what I think you are referring to.

This is what I have thought so many times. But I do believe that they do actually LACK the ability to empathize. For example, NPD which is similar to BPD, has as one of the DSMIV characteristics the inability to empathize, and we know there is lots of comorbidity between NPD and BPD individuals.

[joeramabeme]

Great thread. 

Picking up on Skip's definitions of empathy;

Very Impaired: Generally unable to consider alternative perspectives; highly threatened by differences of opinion or alternative viewpoints. Confusion or unawareness of impact of own actions on others; often bewildered about peoples’ thoughts and actions, with destructive motivations frequently misattributed to others.

This is what I observed.  Highly threatened by differences, confusion and unawareness of own actions, bewildered and mis-attribution. 

My pwBPD showed empathy on many occasions.  In retrospect, those occasions were when I was most vulnerable and clearly defenseless.  There was no confusion for her, no bewilderment and she was not in the least threatened.  But once I started to get back on my feet, her actions and vibes changed just as I was rising to my knees.

I also saw how she compartmentalized her family.  In her mind she needed complete safety and had no empathy at all due to the multiple hurts she had sustained, but she was capable of turning it on if appropriate or socially acceptable such as loss of a loved one or serious sickness.

"They" do have feelings, just not able to release due to the tremendous pain, fear of pain and resultant confusion.

[Palladio]

I agree that BPD people are lacking in empathy,based on my circumstances. I'm basing this on my experiences with my exuBPDso. In a 28 year relationship with 4 recycles, not once did he ever acknowledge any responsibility for our problems or any culpability for any breakup,each of which he instigated. He was so lacking in this area, that on our final day together, two months ago, he couldn't even answer my question as to why we have never been able to make things work. Reflecting on this strange behavior, I remember last winter is lack of true concern for my welfare and feelings. He is practically raising his two grandsons,ages 9 & 11, due to the lack of responsibility by his son and daughter in law. As boys that age are prone to behave, the 9 year old threw a snowball directly into my eye, raising a large bloodblister on the surface of the eyeball. A very disturbing sight to behold. He refused to hold the boy accountable, as he didn't want to,"lay a guilt trip " on the child. Even when the kid asked if he caused the damage, his grandfather lied and said no. Talk about confusing messages to an impressionable child and an invalidation action towards me. A few days later I was offered a feeble, "I'm sorry you got hit in the eye". A lack of sympathy or empathy in my view of things.

He has never admitted that his behaviors have impacted in a negative way on his relationships with his family, friends nor significant others, including myself. As one post said, they are so overwhelmed with their own emotions and feelings that they can't acknowledge that someone else has a feeling to be considered. What huge truth in this statement.