BPD / Bipolar GF - am I doing this right?

[nzjay]

Hi all and thank you for reading my impending rant  .

I joined up today to seek advice on how best to support my GF who has some pretty heavy psychological instability issues.

Her background: diagnosed bi-polar several years ago but never treated. Serious past issues with anorexia and substance abuse. She has recently recovered from PTSD as a result of a traumatic event. I’m posting here because my experiences with her lead me to believe she may actually (or additionally) be BPD.

We met three months ago connected deep and fast.

She informed me of her psychological issues and told me she needed to seek treatment via medication and CBT or we would likely not last. She explained though she’s had long relationships in the past, she tends to drive people off. She asked me to show patience and not abandon her.

She did two previous mini cut-offs, both lasting 3 days, for no obvious reason other than wanting space.

Two weeks ago she had an appointment to confront her issues. Immediately after, she goes silent. Told me she is having a break down and doesn’t want to see or speak with anyone. I gave her space.

After a few days NC, I go to her house to try and understand what is happening. She told me to leave, and then as I left she changed her mind and let me stay to talk. She said she felt empty and confused. She didn’t want to see. She was in a strange child-like state and her eyes were different.

I played it gently and again said I’d give her space.

A couple of days later, she sent me a message aimed to get a reaction out of me, and it worked. I rang her angrily; she apologised, said it was an intentional wind-up and said she’d contact to see me later that day.

After no contact from her, I sent her a message saying I made other plans, and might see her in a few days. This may not sound much, but was cold in terms of my usual apologetic approach to her. Then I went partying, which she was aware of. As a jealous person, this seemed to set her off, and she blocked me on facebook / phone / etc.

I posted a letter going over various things, explaining and giving my thoughts and apologies where appropriate. No response.

Yesterday was my birthday, and I had a hospital check-up (I’m recovering from cancer) which she was going to attend with me. After the appointment I went to her house with flowers to show I wasn’t seeking confrontation. Initially she reacted Very angrily at seeing me, then as I left she once again changed her mind and let me in. Spoke for a time.

-Said she feels empty, hollow, cold, lost, uncaring, the worst she's felt in this way.

-Doesn’t know what she wants in life, and has cut everyone off.

-Told me she doesn’t want me to abandon her, and when I said I still consider her my GF she didn’t speak against that.

-Told me she has quit weed, smoking and booze and is suffering withdrawals.

-Told me a couple of self-harm type stories from the last two weeks, i.e. exercised herself to fainting, and swam in icy water becoming hypothermic.

-I told her I want to support and stand by her at a pace which suits her, and she said she wants that. Said she would like to still see me to get her mind out of this dark place.

-I said I’d appreciate unblocking so we can communicate.

-Left on good terms, with a hug.

-Text her that night (from my spare ie unblocked phone) to say I appreciated her speaking to me, that I hope she sleeps well, and asking if she could unblock me on FB so we can communicate when it suits her.

That was yesterday; nothing yet.

Questions:

-Does this sound typical of a person suffering BPD?

-Any idea what she is seeking from me?

-She seems to respond well when I go to her house with a gentle approach, so I was thinking I’d wait and if no contact from her in 5 days I would this again. Just to check how she is and show her I’m not abandoning her.

-Am I doing it all wrong?

-People have told me to give up, but we connect incredibly and I feel enormous empathy and warmth for her, and want to be there in whatever way I can. Of course, simultaneously reminding myself she is very troubled and trying not to make myself too vulnerable.

Thanks  

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pallavirajsinghani]

"Her background: diagnosed bi-polar several years ago but never treated."

I am so glad that she is aware of her diagnosis and is seeking treatment for it.

Do you think that having a new relationship for her at this vulnerable time may in some way sabotage her commitment to treatment?  By sabotage I mean take her attention away from seeking treatment?

I understand that you may want to be supportive, and may want to "be there" for her... .I still wonder whether your good intentions may backfire.

I am sorry... .I feel for both of you and don't have much of a solution to offer... .except support of you both.

[nzjay]

Actually pallavirajsinghani, that is a valid point, and one I am considering after seeing the state she was in yesterday. So cold, vacant, eyes different, expressionless, totally lost and shutdown.

I did tell her I'll be there in whatever capacity she needs, and I know she may not be emotionally available to continue a new relationship at this point.

I don't just have a case of the "helps" by the way. I want her in my life in some form, and want to reciprocate with whatever I can offer. Doesn't need to be a heavy sexual relationship.

Guess that is something I will discuss more when (if!) we next talk.

Thank you 

[babyducks]

hi nzjay,



I hope your hospital check up went okay?  (and that you recovery continues smoothly.)

My partner is diagnosed as both Bipolar I and EDD.   So I have a sense of what you are going through.   You have found a good online support network which is intended to encourage and educate you.   I have learned more than I can say here, and improved my relationship a great deal.

Your GF's behaviors fall within the typical actions of a person suffering from the traits of BPD.  Let me include a link so you can read more.

The Symptoms and Diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder

People with BPD (pwBPD) have harmfully intense emotions that they have difficulty regulating.   They can also experience periods of disassociation and dsyphoria, which could account for the child like state, and feeling empty.   Many members here describe changes in facial expression or an empty look to the eyes when in an dissociative state.

You are doing the right thing by reaching out here.  There is a lot on this site, a lot to read so I will suggest another link.

The Do's and Don'ts for a BP relationship


Do you see anything in these two links that looks familiar or resonates with your situation?

'ducks

[nzjay]

Hi Duck,

Thanks for the links. They are really helpful.

Addition common points from what I just read:

-Calls herself a terrible person, questioning why anyone wants to be around her. Yesterday she said noone should be near her in her current state because she will hurt them.

-Says she does crazy, stupid things. Can't explain why she does them. Says she destroys everything she cares about.

-At times I feel she manipulates, but when I question this, she claims it's unintentional, and honestly I tend to believe her.

-She's very masochistic and I would describe her as sexually deviant by conventional standards. This doesn't bother me, but fits in with the profiles I just read. Seems obsessed with gender roles, in a fairly odd way.

-Swings between dependence on me, and not wanting to know me.

-Severe past substance abuse. Glue sniffer from 12 years old, party / psychedelic drug addict as a teen, alcohol issues until recently. She's early 20s BTW.

-Says everyone she trusts has let her down, so now she trusts noone. Says nothing lasts, everything is doomed.

-Has some paranoia issues but doesn't seem delusional, aside from misinterpreting things in a negative way.

-Speaks about not caring if she lives or dies, or what happens to her. Though she hasn't actively tried to kill herself for a year or more, from what she's said.

-Doesn't cut or burn herself, but does things and puts herself in situations which are dangerous / harmful.

-Very early in our relationship, portrayed herself strongly as a victim of all forms of abuse, particularly by males, exes, family. I don't mean to doubt this, but I did feel she exaggerated some parts - as later on she referred to them as trivial. Seems to depend on what mood she is in.

-Main difference to me seems to be her Normal-Manic-Depressive-Empty moods last days / weeks, not hours. Doesn't seem an angry person often.

**Second link was amazingly helpful... .thank you. I took a photo of Skip's post to store on my phone as a go-to. I can already see some things I have done wrong, so this will be a good learning curve for me.

For myself, I am an in-remission (22 months) cancer patient with a decent outlook. Check-up went well thanks . I guess my own experience has given me a lot of empathy and forced me to develop tools to handle intense and difficult situations.

A couple of my friends joked about the "crazy ballerina and cancer guy" combo being a match made in hell, but honestly I think it's good for me... .if I can keep her through this current phase.

Thanks again for the welcome .

[nzjay]

I am currently maintaining NC since the text message I sent Monday evening - it's now Thursday morning here.

I'm hoping this will show her I have the strength to not contact and can respect her need for space, and also give her time to reflect on our conversation.

This sounds stupid, but I know she'll be seeing the flowers and crystals (she's obsessed with them) I took her on Monday, hopefully will be reminding her I'm a positive force in her world.

If I have heard nothing by Saturday morning, I am planning to visit her; will take over snacks and a colouring book and suggest we colour it together.

So difficult knowing how much space to give. Based on her overall positive reaction to my previous two unannounced visits, that is the best way to maintain visibility in her life right now. Just a matter of how often.

[nzjay]

One thing I keep pondering; when I saw her Monday and asked what she has been doing, she mentioned:

-went to the gym and exercised until she passed out.

-hasn't really been eating because she doesn't feel like it.

-swam in the ocean and became hypothermic. "I was the only one in the water and everyone was staring at me as though I was crazy."

She said this toward the end of my visit, when I felt she was warming a little.

Is she asking me for help?

Wanting to ensure I worry about her?

Trying to exaggerate how "crazy" she is right now?

Or just rambling?

I didn't really react to any of the above comments; tried to treat them light-heartedly.

[babyducks]

Hi nzjay,

Self Injury and self harm  is difficult to understand.   I sometimes find it a little frightening too.

Basically it can spring from two extremes,  people can self harm  to feel something because they are so psychologically NUMB.  *OR* they can self harm because there is such a bottleneck of so much psychological pain that it RELEASES some of that pain.

She said this toward the end of my visit, when I felt she was warming a little.

Is she asking me for help?

Wanting to ensure I worry about her?

Trying to exaggerate how "crazy" she is right now?

Or just rambling?

here are my thoughts about your questions.

Is she asking for help.  Not likely.   For her this pretty normal.   It may even be pretty mild, depending on her past history of self harm.   

Does she want to ensure you worry about her.   I'm  going to say this is not her first motivation.  pwBPD are fairly self focused.    It's probably more an effort of her trying to figure out her own inner turmoil.

Is she trying to exaggerate how ill she is?   Absolutely not.   BPD has very significant shame based components.   pwBPD don't accept blame, responsibility, and literally would rather die than admit to a fault.

Rambling.   Lots of pwBPD process their internal thoughts externally.   

'ducks

[nzjay]

Hi 'duck!

That's all pretty rational, really.

I guess as her semi-shut-out BF (this really strikes me as a weird limbo relationship right now), I guess i am looking for signs she is reaching out to me etc.

I'll try to bear in mind she's very much self-absorbed right now, and try not to read between the lines to feed what I want.

Anyway, I will post an update after I visit her on Saturday .

[olddante]

Hello,

Let me offer a couple things which may make her feel better.

Its about helping each other live with BPD.

     * Exercise relieves the anxiety of BPD but hard to maintain.

                      My mother is BPD as myself. She never sat down

                      and has just now slowed down with cancer in her 70s.

     * Eating  is the Most important !  Ideally ever hour while awake if

                     she's excessively BPD. The idea is simple. Eat every hour

                     to maintain blood sugar levels. No three large meals a day

                     But one large meal throught the day... fruits throught out

                    the day.

    *  No Sugar this a real problem for BPD individuals, myself ex AA, 12 step

                        any program witch might cure me. Yet problems with sugar

                        are apparent in my family from obesity to diabetes.

                        100 sugar free is impossible but reducing it may be very helpful.

                        This in NOT my idea but one exposed by Dr John Tintera on sugar.

                         His work, in my opinion is genius, Yet I disagree with overall

                         Hypoadreal theory. But the reseach on sugar is excellent.

                         Sugar in: Alcohol, ciggarrets, candy, ice cream... .

                                         These are empty calories which I suggest

                                         worsen BPD symtoms.

        Note: I am NOT a health care provider. My suggestions are based on experience

                  or empirical knowledge, trail and error, and again, very BPD... .

                   

[nzjay]

Oldante, thank you for the suggestions  .

Interestingly, she has had long-standing issues with exercise addiction.

And, as a vegetarian, she says she often eats far too many sugary carby products.

I know depression and other psychological disorders are strongly linked to diet, so I'll keep your comments in mind.

However, I first have to see if she's still willing to engage with me when I visit tomorrow!

It feels really strange that she still has me blocked on social media, and presumably phones... .yet when I go to visit her in person, she's (eventually) quite receptive to my company and talks quite openly with me. Feels surreal... .like she wants to shut me out, but can't do it when she sees me in person.

Anyone else had this?

[olddante]

  Funny you mention blocking family. I do it too. Lol.

  Its my way of taking a time out. The other person in my

  mind is talking at me. Like the way they talk to strangers

  about irreverent things. She may be catching

  Her breath with all the challenges and stress of being young.

  Timeouts actually make me appreciate the other person

  more unless they don't honor my request.

 

[nzjay]

 Funny you mention blocking family. I do it too. Lol.

 Its my way of taking a time out. The other person in my

 mind is talking at me. Like the way they talk to strangers

 about irreverent things. She may be catching

 Her breath with all the challenges and stress of being young.

 Timeouts actually make me appreciate the other person

 more unless they don't honor my request.

 

Interesting. Well, she hasn't told me to not come over again. Do you think popping by every few days or so for a quick visit with some thoughtful gesture, is acceptable behaviour to someone in "timeout" phase?

I'm just trying to keep communication open in some way, without being confrontational or stalkerish haha.

My goal is to gently show I'm there, and that I care... .without appearing threatening.

[babyducks]

My goal is to gently show I'm there, and that I care... .without appearing threatening.

you are 100% correct, over pursuing can appear threatening to anyone but especially some one with BPD.

pwBPD are extremely sensitive to nuances that you and I might not pick up on, for example I wear glasses, a couple of years ago I got a new set that just weren't right for me and consequently I developed a very small frown.   my partner started to react to me "being mad at her".   it took me a while to click on the fact that she was bothered by my frown, she thought I was frowning at her.   I was barely aware that I was frowning.

my thoughts would be to keep things light and easy, and with low expectations.   

whatever your thoughtful gesture is, I would think carefully about it's implications.

[nzjay]

My goal is to gently show I'm there, and that I care... .without appearing threatening.

you are 100% correct, over pursuing can appear threatening to anyone but especially some one with BPD.

pwBPD are extremely sensitive to nuances that you and I might not pick up on, for example I wear glasses, a couple of years ago I got a new set that just weren't right for me and consequently I developed a very small frown.   my partner started to react to me "being mad at her".   it took me a while to click on the fact that she was bothered by my frown, she thought I was frowning at her.   I was barely aware that I was frowning.

my thoughts would be to keep things light and easy, and with low expectations.   

whatever your thoughtful gesture is, I would think carefully about it's implications.

Amazing story about the glasses; really shows us that while not delusional, BPD interpretation can be vastly different to non.

I posted this in my thread in the other forum, but I'll repeat here anyway:

So, my visit today:



Turned up about 10:30am with some snacks and a colouring book + pencils.

She came straight to the door and opened it this time, and was immediately more engaging / defiant than last time. Last time she wouldn't make eye contact and seemed very sad; this time a pronounced difference - more defiant and almost seemed amused to see me there.

trying to use the S.E.T approach:

I explained I was there to see how she is, see if I could help at all. Told her I know she's in a bad way, and that she might be mad at me for persisting. And said I wanted to talk about a compromise going forward. Short story to save people reading my novel:

-She still feels the same; no emotion, cold, cut off.

-However! She told me she does this all the time; activates defense mechanisms and cuts people off.

-Said "you don't take no for an answer, do you?" I told her if she told me to leave and never come back, I would respect that, but she didn't continue that line of talk.

-I told her I know her funk won't be permanent, and that I want to support her when needed and be there at the end of it.

-I asked her what advice SHE had for ME: she said "wait".

-I told her the lack of communication and visibility is not working for me, hence my random visits, and asked if she would compromise with me. She asked in what way and I suggested:

-Re-add me on facebook so we can have visibility and communication lines open. In return, I respect her by not flooding with contact or dropping in at her house any more. She agreed to this, though didn't immediately do it of course.

-She said if she does this, we will be starting from the beginning again, and not to expect things to immediately be as they were. Unsure what this meant; presumably she doesn't want me pressuring her about relationship stuff immediately.

-My flowers from last time were still there, which means she hasn't been trying to cleanse memory of me.

-She asked me to leave the colouring book and pencils there for us to do another time.

-She showed me some art she has been doing lately, and told me she uses colouring to meditate quite often.

-We chatted about small stuff a while longer, then a hug and I left.

-I felt like she didn't want to admit to appreciating my gestures or thoughts, but I have given her many opportunities to "out" me and she's not taken then.

-Her mentality has definitely changed, and she has more energy and attitude about her again. Not particularly in a fond way toward me haha, but I felt I was breaking the ice a little.

So where to now? I do believe she will resume FB contact with me, but will likely make me wait.

If she doesn't, what should I do? Do I wait 7 days NC and then visit again? Longer? Never?

I feel strong, she's not breaking me down, and I have always remained calm and collected when talking to her.

I guess after that visit, I feel ambient. Not panicked but not elated either. If she re-adds me... .I will feel I've made real progress.

[nzjay]

Annnd game over:

"Jay, I do not wish to see you again. I don't want a relationship with you any longer and please don't make any attempts to see me or contact me again. I don't want to talk about this with you, I've had long enough to think about it and this is the choice and decision I am making for myself."

Nice concise text message; reads like a lawyer's document. Can't really argue with that!

Thanks for all the advice guys - looks like I won't be needing any more.

[pallavirajsinghani]

I hope that you will respect her choice.  The space will allow her to work on herself.  So, perhaps it is a good idea.  How do you feel about this?  Do you feel hurt?  Let down?  Relieved?

[babyducks]

sorry nzjay.   I suspect that had to sting.   you did everything that anyone could have done, sometimes the disorder/illness wins.

[nzjay]

I hope that you will respect her choice.  The space will allow her to work on herself.  So, perhaps it is a good idea.  How do you feel about this?  Do you feel hurt?  Let down?  Relieved?

I definitely will; 100%. I've only wanted to show her I care, and the best way for me to do that is now to leave her alone and move on. Which I will do. Not interested in harassing someone who has explicitly asked me to go away.

I don't feel let down; just that I've lost someone I cared for. But hey, I knew this was a likely outcome.

[nzjay]

sorry nzjay.   I suspect that had to sting.   you did everything that anyone could have done, sometimes the disorder/illness wins.

Thanks bud. I think too much damage was done before I understood how I should have handled things. There was never going to be a successful relationship for us, at least she was kind enough to give me a clear ending.

Very very cut up about this in all honesty, but I will find someone else. I hope she finds peace.

[JohnLove]

Hello nzjay. The fact that she rebuffed all your attempts at spending time or just hanging together was the most telling for me.

She does seem to have a real load of serious issues.

I am glad she has been clear with you and you have respected that, but if she suffers from BPD she may be about to go into a pull phase. She may be "testing" you to see for herself how attached you are. Too much game playing. Do not bite.

All the best to you, mate.