Top Ten Red Flags

[once removed]

 

i was recently reading through this thread: "Red Flags" and how to choose healthier partners

its a good discussion. its a lot of discussion at 24 pages. if you google something like "relationship red flags" youll see hundreds of lists, with hundreds of "red flags". it seems everyone has their own idea of what constitutes a "red flag".

this brings me to two points: none of us are perfect. we all have qualities about us that are less desirable or more desirable to the general population, and then of course to specific people. i suspect we could all present two extreme versions of ourselves, one full of desirable qualities, one full of "red flags", with the truth being somewhere in between.

coming out of these relationships, especially with the generally helpful suggestion that we retrospectively examine the "red flags" of our partners, we can become hypervigilant about spotting red flags. youve seen the threads. we see BPD everywhere, we see red flags in everyone we meet, we warn our friends that their prospective partners have a lot of "red flags". its understandable. who wants to repeat the same mistakes or see anyone else make them?

of course, in that state, we dont always have the most balanced perspective. not every undesirable quality constitutes a red flag. sometimes its just an incompatibility. sometimes it might be a misunderstanding, bad first impression. and sometimes, that may be an overreaction, a failing to account for the individuality of others. where do we draw the line?

its a tricky balance and i cant tell you i have it down.

so what can we do? lets try to break it down: what constitutes a red flag to you? what are your personal top ten red flags? please try to narrow it down to ten, definitive red flags. not an incompatibility, not something youre less attracted to, not all things limited to your BPDex (although you can include them) but the kinds of things that make your gut scream "run".

ill start. some of these are very personal to me, and in some cases i can think of bigger red flags, but i think most of these belong in a good general list; a good, general, definitive top ten list is the collective goal of the thread. heres my top ten, in no particular order.

• 1. too much too soon. over the top intensity early on really turns me off and pushes me away these days.
• 2. relationship with parents. ill qualify this one: we dont choose our families. its not, to me, an inherent red flag if you have a troubled relationship with one or both parents. heck, a lot the membership here does. with most of my exes, there was a running theme. mom is evil, dad is great. it always sounded and appeared a bit off to me. with prospective partners, i want to listen, experience, get a full picture.
• 3. sharing too much too soon. if your means of bonding with me is to immediately open up and disclose your life story as a perpetual tragedy, im uncomfortable. once in my life, i was attracted to it. sometimes we are attracted to red flags, and "recognizing a red flag" really means becoming self aware about what dynamics youre attracted to.
• 4. tendency to snoop, monitor or otherwise invade privacy/jealous tendencies
• 5. basically any history of cheating. if you have bettered yourself in terms of past mistakes, then avoid disclosing such a thing to me.
• 6. an unresolved previous relationship
• 7. drug problem. not something ive really experienced, but i think it belongs on the list. its not a judgment thing; it does indicate lack of emotional availability.
• 8. "i need someone who can handle me"
• 9. temper
• 10. i had a girl outright tell me she was "bad news". hard to think of a more vivid red flag.

your turn

[Mr Hollande]

In no particular order:

1. uncalled for and uncontrollable rages.
2. addiction(s)
3. promiscuity
4. debt
5. inability to maintain employment
6. inability to maintain friendships
7. self harm (MASSIVE red flag)
8. impulsive behaviour
9. unclear personal history
10. nomadic lifestyle

[Lunira]

Here are mine, in no particular order:

1) Drug or alcohol addiction.
2) A nomadic lifestyle (changes places of residence far too often to be normal, just can't seem to put down roots or stay in one place for long).
3) No long term friendships.  (People start to see them for who they really are and either leave, or tell them the facts about themselves and then are left, .)
4) Takes no responsibility for the state of their lives, everything is always someone else's fault, any problems are someone else's responsibility to fix, and anything they need or lack is someone else's responsibility to give them.
5) Inability to maintain steady employment.
6) Excessively "generous" with gifts or favors (usually an attempt to ingratiate oneself with others or "buy friends".  
7) Sexually promiscuous.
8) Attitudes/personality/interests seem to change on a dime, depending on who they're around.
9) Parasitic lifestyle (tendency to depend upon the gifts/charity/goodwill of others in order to pay their bills).
10) Criminality/criminal history.

[hashtag_loyal]

1. Dishonesty of ANY kind!
2. Disclosure of bizarre or extreme past promiscuity
3. Relationship with parents
4. Evidence of self-loathing, such as "You're wonderful. I don't deserve someone like you."
5. Extreme hugging. (Cuddling is nice, but physically holding onto me like your life depends on it is not.)
6. Overlapping or ambiguous past relationships
7. No or few legit friends of the same sex
8. Using "fairy tale" style language about love and relationships ("I love you to the moon and back", "You complete me", etc.)
9. Playing "the victim" in every situation
10. Getting frequent text, FB or kik messages (beyond what is normal for the age/sex of the person in question.)

[Lucky Jim]

OK, I'll chime in.  Here are ten red flags that come to mind:

1.  Temper/Rage/Anger Management issues;
2.  :)rug or drinking problems;
3.  Major conflicts with friends, family members and/or colleagues at work;
4.  Impulsive behavior;
5.  Self-destructive behavior, including suicide ideation;
6.  Obsessive and/or stalking behavior;
7.  Emotional immaturity;
8.  PTSD issues;
9.  Jealousy and Abandonment issues; and
10. Complex FOO issues.

LuckyJim

[balletomane]

1.) History of volatile relationships, lots of short-term relationships in rapid succession, sexually risky behaviour (my ex was in a polyamorous relationship with a sex worker and they never used condoms - at first he couldn't understand why I was so horrified), and sob stories in which the ex is always abusive or crazy and he's the perpetual victim.

2.) Difficulty with seeing and respecting another person's point of view, sometimes to the point where the other person is demonized for thinking differently.

3.) Difficulty with taking responsibility for his own actions, inability to apologise.

4.) Difficulty with accepting an apology. (My ex used to get me to tell him exactly what I'd done to hurt him and if I didn't get it right - and I never did - that meant I wasn't sorry, I was just trying to manipulate him.)

5.) Constantly being suspicious of people's motives and seeing the worst in others.

I would not rule out dating someone just because they have PTSD or they self-harm or whatever. One-quarter of the population experiences a mental health problem at some point in their lives, and that does not necessarily mean they'd be a bad partner. How they deal with the problem is what matters.

[MakingMyWay]

1. Found her in a state of emotional 'numbness'
2. Terrible relationship with parents
3. Very intense at the start
4. Very few meaningful friends, especially of the same sex
5. Self harm or threats of self harm
6. Truly hated herself
7. Never knew how she would be feeling when she woke up, walking on eggshells constantly
8. Would casually say stuff like "I would probably kill myself if I didn't have you" (Don't know why I didn't run at this one)
9. Chronic boredom when not with me
10. Could very easily lie to the people she loved

[FannyB]

1) Too many exes

2) Too many short term jobs

3) Too many cats!

4) Too many stories of 'abuse'

5) Addictions

6) Mummy issues

7) Unwillingness to accept fault

8) Unwillingness to appreciate your point of view

9) Childish reactions

10) Easy 'I love you's'

[once removed]

great answers so far, all. really pithy and really generally good rules. we have some leading candidates for a top ten already, with addiction, sexual promiscuity, unemployment/employment problems as some of the leaders. as we get some more responses i will start to keep tally and we will see what our top ten looks like. lets keep it up 

[Conundrum]

1. She sits in a dark room watching "Gone Girl," over n over.
2. Your pet bunny disappears and there's a strange odor emanating from the slow cooker.
3. Her last ex is an ex because the state executed him.
4. She sports a tramp stamp depicting a black widow and keeps a live one in her purse.
5. She often ponders whether you'll still love her if she was a brain in a vat.
6. She's a better shot than you at the shooting range.
7. Every time you go dancing with her it results in getting into a brawl with a different local sports team.
8. Her mother calls her Claudia, but you've always known her as Trinity.
9. Her last job was working at topless car wash.
10. She changes outfits every 30 minutes and they're all black or white.

Hope you don't mind a little levity... .

[Mr Hollande]

1. She sits in a dark room watching "Gone Girl," over n over.

I can obsess over things. Especially music. I can go an entire day and listen to the same song over and over. Even long after I'm sick of it.

My ex said she'd feel almost unbearable sadness when listening to Lana Del Rey but that she couldn't stop. I didn't get that at the time but with the relationship in hindsight and having studied Lana's lyrics in more detail I understand better what she meant.

[SummerStorm]

1. Statements like, "I have no friends because everyone always leaves me.  They think I'm crazy."
2. Impulsive behaviors
3. Everyone (ex-boyfriends, ex-friends) is always crazy, abusive, or a stalker. 
4. Moving around a lot
5. Lots of different jobs in; never stays at one too long
6. Self-harm and self-loathing ("I'm a waste," "You deserve better."
7. Unpredictable and seemingly unprovoked rages
8. Saying "I love you" way too early
9. Extreme idealization and mirroring
10. Lying

[parisian]

In no order of priority:

1.  Is middle-aged and has an over-abundance of childhood memorabilia but would not class self as a 'collector' of any specific item (e.g. cartoon character t-shirts/accessores; character tattoo; children's movies/tv series; figurines)

2.  Listens regularly to Nine Inch Nails; Tori Amos; Brittany Spears; Lana Del Ray; MSMR's 'Hurricane' song; Miley Cyrus; Taylor Swift (borderline artists - some that have very dark
songs, some about abuse). Does not seek out new music - stuck in the past with music tastes.

3.   Cannot acknowledge and discuss in an adult way, own flaws specifically or is unable to 'own up to' specific self behaviour that led to the demise of last r/s without using broad or generalised cliches such as 'we weren't right for each other'; 'sometimes people just grow apart'; 'apparently I was too negative' (that was for the end of an 8 year r/s)'

4.   Does not seem to have allowed sufficient time between r/s to recover and be by self after r/ships.

5.   Excessive communication and/or including excessive use of childish emoticons.

6.   Drinks excessively, regularly or takes prescription medication and/or has other excessive bad habits (such as over-spending).

7.   Suffers regularly from nightmares / has major sleep issues.

8.   Demands to spend alot of time together at the very start.

9.   Makes 'odd' statements like - 'I don't really know who I am'; 'I can't have long relationships'; 'If you'll stay... .'; 'Often it takes not very much for me to feel sad'; 'You can do anything you like to me'

10.  Is not able to have deep, reflective conversations about self/me/life. Conversations are pragmatic and functional.

11.  Has major issues with Mom, hates Mom or gets very easily agitated with Mom, who seems quite normal.

As you've said, some non-BPD might show these traits in the early days too - that of course does not make them BPD, and we each have our own set of 'red-flags' based on the specific pwBPD's characteristics that we went out with.

[Suspicious1]

These are red flags in others that means I'd avoid a relationship with them:
1) love-bombing
2) all exes described as abusers
3) addictions which are viewed as being acceptable and not a problem
4) thinking that invasions of privacy are acceptable in any circumstances
5) jealousy & possessiveness
6) double standards, inequality or sexism - "its ok when I do it but not when it's someone else"
7) control issues & protectiveness
8) physical intimidation or pushiness
9) lack of empathy
10) emotional, psychological or verbal abuse

Red flags that I myself display:
1) I have slightly dysregulated emotions
2) I have been in a couple of abusive past relationships (which is probably why I suffer from the above)
3) I'd identify as bisexual and polyamorous and I suppose some might see that as promiscuous
4) I've self-harmed in the past (because of points 1 and 2)
5) I've had an emotional breakdown (because of points 1 and 2)
6) I've been suicidal (because of points 1 and 2)
7) I'm very mildly on the bipolar spectrum
8) My mother has NPD
9) I've had lots of jobs, because it took me ages to work out that I was really made to be self-employed
10) I actually can't think of a tenth. Give it time.

[Suspicious1]

10) I have OCD tendencies. Probably explains why I couldn't let this go till I'd thought of a tenth.

[Fr4nz]

1. She sits in a dark room watching "Gone Girl," over n over.

I can obsess over things. Especially music. I can go an entire day and listen to the same song over and over. Even long after I'm sick of it.

My ex said she'd feel almost unbearable sadness when listening to Lana Del Rey but that she couldn't stop. I didn't get that at the time but with the relationship in hindsight and having studied Lana's lyrics in more detail I understand better what she meant.

Lol Hollande!
My BPD (with HPD traits) ex was also very attracted to Lana's songs; she was especially crazy about the song "Young and Beautiful": she literally looped it for whole days!
Analyzing carefully its lyrics, one can see that the song is basically about validation and love, which is one of the things BPDs crave with full-force.

Anyway, Lana seems to be particularly triggering among BPDs, so this may not be a coincidence :D
Read here: www.psychforums.com/borderline-personality/topic147704.html

[Suspicious1]

1. She sits in a dark room watching "Gone Girl," over n over.

I can obsess over things. Especially music. I can go an entire day and listen to the same song over and over. Even long after I'm sick of it.

My ex said she'd feel almost unbearable sadness when listening to Lana Del Rey but that she couldn't stop. I didn't get that at the time but with the relationship in hindsight and having studied Lana's lyrics in more detail I understand better what she meant.

My BPD (with HPD traits) ex was also very attracted to Lana's songs; she was especially crazy about the song "Young and Beautiful": she literally looped it for whole days!
Analyzing carefully its lyrics, one can see that the song is basically about validation and love, which is one of the things BPDs crave with full-force.

Anyway, Lana seems to be particularly triggering among BPDs, so this may not be a coincidence :D
Read here: www.psychforums.com/borderline-personality/topic147704.html

Funny, my exBPDbf was obsessed with The Cure, listened to them every day, and used to use their lyrics often as a way to describe his own emotions. Now I love a bit of The Cure myself, but it's hard not to notice that their lyrics so often express a very idealised version of love, and the women their love songs described would always be this ethereal angel, just-out-of-reach, worshipped, quirky, strange, unattainable. This only occured to me the other day - it was as if his perfect woman was the woman described in these songs. I identified with them far more when I was 15 and an angsty teenager.

Sometimes he'd send me Cure lyrics to explain how he was feeling. The most memorable of these was after the first time he split me black and raged at me, and then when he split me white again he sent me the song "Same as You": "You know the things I said / all the things that made you cry / I didn't really mean that stuff, I didn't really mean that stuff. / All I really mean when I scream and shout the way I do / Is I'm scared - I'm just as scared as you".

[Lucky Jim]

conundrum:  Great list!  I suspect the reason why I find it so funny is that there is a kernel of truth in each item.

[Sigh] wish I had read this thread 20 years ago . . .

LuckyJim

[LostGhost]

1. She sits in a dark room watching "Gone Girl," over n over.

I can obsess over things. Especially music. I can go an entire day and listen to the same song over and over. Even long after I'm sick of it.

My ex said she'd feel almost unbearable sadness when listening to Lana Del Rey but that she couldn't stop. I didn't get that at the time but with the relationship in hindsight and having studied Lana's lyrics in more detail I understand better what she meant.

Lol Hollande!
My BPD (with HPD traits) ex was also very attracted to Lana's songs; she was especially crazy about the song "Young and Beautiful": she literally looped it for whole days!
Analyzing carefully its lyrics, one can see that the song is basically about validation and love, which is one of the things BPDs crave with full-force.

Anyway, Lana seems to be particularly triggering among BPDs, so this may not be a coincidence :D
Read here: www.psychforums.com/borderline-personality/topic147704.html

My ex too loved the song young and beautiful. During our first go around, she would wake up to this song as her alarm clock and it was "our song".

[Turkish]

Conundrum:

I'll copy a few of yours, once removed:

1. relationship with parents. Lack of connection or unresolved feelings towards one or both parents, especially the opposite-sex parent. On the flip-side, over-enmeshment or unhealthy inter-dependence with one or both parents.

2. an unresolved previous relationship ("I'm not over my Ex of two years ago."

3. Push-pull, mixed signals (Do you want to date or just be friends, why keep changing your mind?)

4. "i need someone who can handle me" (Her dad told me, "it's good, you can handle her"

5. temper (inappropriate anger)

6. i had a girl outright tell me she was "bad news". hard to think of a more vivid red flag. ("With me you'll get both heaven and hell"

7. "I hate marriage!" (translation: "I hate commitment." Not a person to try and start a committed r/s with, much less start a family--- I own this myself as a terrible choice I made)

8. Had to get a restraining order on the last r/s partner.

[ScotisGone74]

Much like many of the others posted .    At the time they were occurring she always had an excuse for them of some kind, I knew something was not right, but just didnt know what exactly.   
1.  Began saying "I love You" within weeks of seeing each other.
2.  The only friends she hung around were a couple of very unsavory hoes we worked with.   
3.   Would have severe temper tantrums after a period of things going well between us.
4.  Always on FB posting selfies, at the end of the relationship I picked up her computer with her online dating profile page pulled, which she quickly ran to take off. 
5.  Numerous hea lth problems from out of nowhere.     Way too many for someone that was perfectly physically healthy.   
6.  At work would become giddy when she could get another male to talk to her.   
7.  As the relationship went on increasingly talked about her ex.
8.  Toward the end of the relationship threatened to call the cops if I left and didnt stay and rub her back.
9.  Busted boundaries-would come in the bathroom and set on my lap when I was trying to take a dump on the toilet.   
10.   At the end was delusional.     After she had been cheating on me for weeks  she accused me of having my ex come by her house and watch her.    Also would never admit cheating when faced  with the truth.   

[SummerStorm]

In no order of priority:

4.   :)oes not seem to have allowed sufficient time between r/s to recover and be by self after r/ships.

5.   Excessive communication and/or including excessive use of childish emoticons.

6.   :)rinks excessively, regularly or takes prescription medication and/or has other excessive bad habits (such as over-spending).

7.   Suffers regularly from nightmares / has major sleep issues.

8.   :)emands to spend alot of time together at the very start.

9.   Makes 'odd' statements like - 'I don't really know who I am'; 'I can't have long relationships'; 'If you'll stay... .'; 'Often it takes not very much for me to feel sad'; 'You can do anything you like to me'

10.  Is not able to have deep, reflective conversations about self/me/life. Conversations are pragmatic and functional.

You just described my former friend BPD, . 

[once removed]

just a reminder that the goal of this thread is to create a collective list of ten, general, relationship red flags, as opposed to a list of the red flags we ignored from our BPD exes. there will likely be overlap, but the goal is red flags you would apply to anyone, in general.

[SummerStorm]

7. "I hate marriage!" (translation: "I hate commitment." Not a person to try and start a committed r/s with, much less start a family--- I own this myself as a terrible choice I made)

Yes, I heard this all the time... .until she decided one day that she wanted to marry me.  I do think a lot of this was mirroring.  The funny thing is that I'm not even ready to get married yet.  Since we never talked about me, only her, she really didn't have a great idea of what I wanted.  

She always chalked her hatred of marriage up to the fact that her mom has been married 5 times.  And sure, that may be part of it, but I definitely see commitment and intimacy as the main issues here.  

[Mr Hollande]

Since we are on the subject of music. How about those little gothic rag dolls that appear on Facebook? I'm in a band so I encounter them all the time. Does anyone know they type I'm referring to? Although I have had my share of BPD girlfriends I have always avoided their particular type like the plague.

[once removed]

still hoping to get some more lists. our top three are each separated by a vote respectively.

right now, our number one red flag has been categorized as "emotionally immature communicator". sound kind of vague? its a working category . its got 10 votes. what comprises this category? things like the following:

":)ifficulty with taking responsibility for his own actions, inability to apologise."
"Unwillingness to accept fault"
"lack of empathy"
":)ifficulty with seeing and respecting another person's point of view, sometimes to the point where the other person is demonized for thinking differently."
"Unwillingness to appreciate your point of view"
"Childish reactions"

communication is a pretty fundamental part of a healthy relationship. evidently it is something we put a value on 

[Hopeful83]

 
Here are some red flags:

- Silent treatment that lasts for hours/days after a petty argument
- Being too keen too soon
- Signs of 'falling in love' very easily/quickly
- An addiction to drama - big fallouts followed by romantic, OTT makeups
- Signs of anger issues (my ex's full blown rages didn't start until about a year in, but there were signs of anger issues before that)
- Full on behaviour at the start - wanting to spend all his/her spare time with you (this is not sustainable, and is then followed by a push in the other direction)
- 'Unresolved issues' with 'exes' - in some cases, women who he didn't even have a 'proper' relationship with
- Overreacting to small arguments with drinking and dramatic behaviour

[Technique]

1. Stating 'Anything goes' in the sack within a week of meeting. Overtly sexually kinky
2. Evident crushes on work colleagues and husbands and partners of friends. Usually those of an unobtainable status, or managerial role.
3. Short, sharp periods of rage. Bizarrely, during sex.
4. 'I love yous' way too soon.
5. Way, way too many exes.
6. Lack of any long term relationships, or positive references to any of them.
7. Eventual withholding of sex.
8. Inability to engage at a deep emotional level. Zero intimacy. As far as she is concerned sex IS intimacy.
9. Secretive, cheating and lying.
10. Wears a 'mask' for the world to see. Mask eventually drops in conjunction with devaluation stage.

[LostGhost]

Feels strange for me to make this list. I'm still friends with her so it feels like pointing out the flaws in someone I care about but it might be useful to watch out for these things in my future.

1. Excessive idealization at beginning of relationships - words like soulmate.
2. Lack of true identity - takes on the hobbies/values of person she is with.
3. Unusual behaviour with sex - either extremely hyper sexual or avoids completely as relationship progresses.
4. Almost all friends are opposite sex and spends a little too much time talking to them, texting them and keeping it on the down low.
5. Extremely emotionally sensitive.
6. History of broken relationships where it was always the other person's fault, the exes were all abusive.
7. Childhood abuse.
8. Deep feelings of worthlessness and emptiness on the inside, unable to feel truly happy for long periods of time.
9. Doesn't seem to care about physical appearance in partners. No distinguishable preference - all partners completely different from each other.
10. Push/pull behaviour. This would actually be the #1  for me. If I ever see this crap again, I'm out. I will never again tolerate being a god one minute and a devil the next because of some unknown mystical reason. I will only be with someone who can view me as a whole person, take into account all of my past actions, deeds and words and form an overarching opinion about me based on that instead if what they're feeling moment to moment. CAN'T STAND IT!

[once removed]

ive had to take some liberties in creating and dividing lists and descriptions into categories.

the top ten is a series of ties and so looks more like top fifteen.

categories are:

Emotionally Immature Communicator: (previously explained)

Complex FOO issues: (thanks to lucky jim for the title. this tends to pertain to an unhealthy relationship with one or both parents)

Over Intensity/Too Much Too Soon: (someone that is hot and heavy too quickly, moves too fast, loves you right away)

Temper: (mainly described as a person prone to rage)

Sexual Promiscuity: (self explanitory)

"A Drug Problem": (self explanitory, may depend on the individual, but with an emphasis on addiction)

Perpetual Victim: (someone who, when telling you about themselves, presents a tendency to present themselves as a victim)

Self Harm: (we can characterize a few of these things as self harming. in this case it is limited to suicidal ideation, cutting, or a history of them)

History of Abuse: (sometimes lists conflated a history of abuse with a perception of victimhood but there was a clear enough distinction to warrant its own category. if a person tells us they have multiple partners who abused them, whether true or false, members found it to be a red flag)

Inconsistent Employment: (pertains to lots of short term jobs, job instability, and general inability to maintain employment)

Unresolved Previous Relationships: ("something" still going on with an ex. not to be confused with "too many exes"

Verbal Warnings: (a statement like "im crazy"

our top ten looks something like this:

• 1. Emotionally Immature Communicator (14 votes)
• 1. Over Intensity/Too Much Too Soon (14 votes)
• 3. Complex FOO Issues (9 votes)
• 3. Temper (9 votes)
• 5. Sexual Promiscuity (8 votes)
• 5. History of Abuse (8 votes)
• 7. "A Drug Problem" (7 votes)
• 8. Perpetual Victim (6 votes)
• 8. Self Harm (6 votes)
• 8. Unresolved Relationship Issues (6 votes)

so several ties, and several categories tied at 5 votes below that. would still love to get some more votes and break these ties, get a little closer to definitive, but this is a great list. perhaps not surprisingly, several of them are the 9 criteria for BPD.

interestingly, we also had lots of great suggestions (criminal history was mentioned) that only had one vote. anyway, im hoping to get some more votes, at which point we will dive a bit deeper into these numbers, how they pertain to us and the membership, future relationships, etc. thanks for participating so far!