My STBX keeps contacting me

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My uBPDw of 10 years left in July.  I will spare the details but basically she stated that she wasn't happy for all 10 years and had been lying (I still do not know about what).  Although not surprised, I was crushed.  Now 4 months later, I have started to come out of the FOG and am feeling somewhat better.

However, it seems that when I try to go no contact she finds a reason to keep contacting me.  I have had two 3-week periods of NC.  I begin to feel better and then she tries to reengage with me.

When we talk I am trying BIFF (Brief / Informative / Friendly / Firm) with some success and I have also tried SET - but do not always do well with this.  Anyway, each time we reconnect the topic is around our settlement and we are both far apart from one another so the conversations are difficult and usually end with my being verbally assaulted and then a feeling of even deeper despair about why this did not all work etc... .

After our last discussion, I resolved not to handle this on my own and gave it all to my lawyer.  Well, 3 weeks has gone by and she is texting me again looking for answers about where the negotiation is at.  I told her that the attorney has the ball, but she is wanting to know where it stands from me.

I am struggling.  In 2 ways.  First, she left, why try to keep contacting me?  Second, I know she will not understand (and definitely will not like) what my attorney is going to do and as much as I want to tell her WHY I am doing this so that she can accept it, I know that is not smart.  She knows all the same.  Why is she continuing to contact me?  She says I am unreliable, untrustworthy and that my words mean nothing and I have no integrity.  Than why ask ME?

Anyone have some words to offer?  I want to reach out and I don't want to reach out.  Know what I mean?

[joeramabeme]

My uBPDw of 10 years left in July.  I will spare the details but basically she stated that she wasn't happy for all 10 years and had been lying (I still do not know about what).  Although not surprised, I was crushed.  Now 4 months later, I have started to come out of the FOG and am feeling somewhat better.

However, it seems that when I try to go no contact she finds a reason to keep contacting me.  I have had two 3-week periods of NC.  I begin to feel better and then she tries to reengage with me.

When we talk I am trying BIFF (Brief / Informative / Friendly / Firm) with some success and I have also tried SET - but do not always do well with this.  Anyway, each time we reconnect the topic is around our settlement and we are both far apart from one another so the conversations are difficult and usually end with my being verbally assaulted and then a feeling of even deeper despair about why this did not all work etc... .

After our last discussion, I resolved not to handle this on my own and gave it all to my lawyer.  Well, 3 weeks has gone by and she is texting me again looking for answers about where the negotiation is at.  I told her that the attorney has the ball, but she is wanting to know where it stands from me.

I am struggling.  In 2 ways.  First, she left, why try to keep contacting me?  Second, I know she will not understand (and definitely will not like) what my attorney is going to do and as much as I want to tell her WHY I am doing this so that she can accept it, I know that is not smart.  She knows all the same.  Why is she continuing to contact me?  She says I am unreliable, untrustworthy and that my words mean nothing and I have no integrity.  Than why ask ME?

Anyone have some words to offer?  I want to reach out and I don't want to reach out.  Know what I mean?

[Sunfl0wer]

I suspect she is feeling a lot of different things about the divorce, just as anyone would.

I also suspect she is trying to use you in some manner to avoid facing responsibility.

She may not want to be responsible for

... .her feelings

... .her actions

... .her financial situation

... etc.

I see her contacting you as a form of triangulation.

She may vacillate from victim, persecutor... .

Hoping you to throw her some bone, rescue her, then mad at you when it is not enough.

She is going to find some disordered way to cope, or maybe an ordered way, who knows... .but that will happen with or without you anyway.  You do not need to be apart of this process, nor do you owe it to her to explain why.

Why do you want to be apart of her coping with her decision for divorce?

She is contacting you because she is getting something.  When you give her none of you, she will eventually loose steam.

[Mutt]

Hi Joe,

She's unstable at the moment. I'm sorry you're going through this. It does get better. I recall when I had a temporary custody order and the order is permanent now and has similar stipulations today. This was about two years ago and my ex wanted to have the kids a day early. Our switch on and switch off day is on Fridays. The kids are with either parent from Fri to Fri for a week. Anyways I said no. She then said that she wanted the kids at 4AM on Friday morning and again I said no. I wasn't going to wake up the kids that early in the morning for mom. She wanted to leave town.

She went as far as calling my L. I think that we had a court date about a week or maybe two after that incident. Our lawyers were in a meeting room and we were both present and my L brought that up that it's his clients parenting time and she can't do that. He was leaning on her pretty hard and she said "He doesn't know how to talk to me!" I could tell she was really hurt and the reason why is because I was in low contact and I was parallel parenting. Her oldest daughter was born pre-millenium and parallel parenting wasn't developed then, her father didn't get a court order and it was chaos for him for access, courts are acknowledging high conflict today in the 10's. I don't think that she had thought that far ahead and she was realizing that she was losing me.

When we talk I am trying BIFF (Brief / Informative / Friendly / Firm) with some success and I have also tried SET - but do not always do well with this.

These are good communication tools Joe but we can only try the tools and if the tools don't work. There's nothing that we can do if our exes are emotionally unstable. The tools take practice, I look at the tools as on the job training, you keep practicing and you'll get better.

I'm going to guess that she's baiting and she's also angry in her emails? I'll give you tips that may help you. My ex will often blame shift or project when she's unstable. What I think that's the most important thing to remember above BIFF and SET is JADE. I say things once and I don't repeat what I already said. It's there in black and white and you can easily read an old email if you missed something? What also helps is that I will look at what is valid in the email throughout the anger and emotional immaturity and answer that and eject everything else that she says.

I recall when we were together, often we talked through Facebook or email while I was working and when she was unstable there would be 30 or 50 replies in our threads. Today there may be 3 or 4 because I don't JADE  when she's unstable. Validate what is valid, don't validate the invalid. I know today that this may be easier said than done when you're in the the thick of it. If I don't answer when she's baiting I may get 4 back to back emails in my inbox and I know that she can't control her impulses and when she's like that I wait for a few hours and sometimes I'll wait until the next day because I hope to find her in a different mood. Feelings are quicksilver to a pwBPD.

It took time for me to get tempered with her anger after the marriage but I know that her anger is unrelated and has nothing to do with me. I spot what's valid in her message and depersonalize her vulgarity and emotional immaturity. That way I can get things done for the kids. Hang in there Joe.

[Panda39]

Abandonment is still abandonment even when she does it. 

My SO's uBPDxw still reaches out to him occasionally 3 years post divorce.  I feel like he is some kind of touchstone and she has to periodically make sure he is still there.

Your strategy to have her talk with your lawyer is a smart one.  Continue to do what you are dong don't engage with her.  Protect yourself.

Panda39

[joeramabeme]

I suspect she is feeling a lot of different things about the divorce, just as anyone would.

I also suspect she is trying to use you in some manner to avoid facing responsibility.

She may not want to be responsible for

... .her feelings

... .her actions

... .her financial situation

... etc.

I see her contacting you as a form of triangulation.

She may vacillate from victim, persecutor... .

Hoping you to throw her some bone, rescue her, then mad at you when it is not enough.

She is going to find some disordered way to cope, or maybe an ordered way, who knows... .but that will happen with or without you anyway.  You do not need to be apart of this process, nor do you owe it to her to explain why.

Why do you want to be apart of her coping with her decision for divorce?

She is contacting you because she is getting something.  When you give her none of you, she will eventually loose steam.

Thanks Sunflower, there is an awful lot of substance in your reply.  I am definitely sure that she does not want to be responsible for her part and from that extends her anger.  In her mind, she is firmly rooted into this is happening to her, not because of her.  Therefore, a sense of entitled dumping is established and justified.

It is sad how so much my healing and learning from our r/s emanates from a postmortem perspective, retrospectively seeing how the pieces fit together.  Each time I get a new piece of information I need to broaden my understanding and adjust my understanding of what I thought was.   

Guess I am still not sure what the "something" is that she wants, my mind had been trained to think it was our r/s or a change in my behavior or something along those lines, but I am now pretty sure that this is not it.  If I were to let my intuition run away for a moment her actions feel like she wants me to come rescue her from the pain and confusion.  Boy how I wish I could - I know better, only she can rescue her.  But just that idea is enough to make me wonder if I could. 

BTW, the triangle was perfect analogy for this.

Thanks SunFlower. 

[joeramabeme]

Hi Joe,

She's unstable at the moment. I'm sorry you're going through this. It does get better. I recall when I had a temporary custody order and the order is permanent now and has similar stipulations today. This was about two years ago and my ex wanted to have the kids a day early. Our switch on and switch off day is on Fridays. The kids are with either parent from Fri to Fri for a week. Anyways I said no. She then said that she wanted the kids at 4AM on Friday morning and again I said no. I wasn't going to wake up the kids that early in the morning for mom. She wanted to leave town.

She went as far as calling my L. I think that we had a court date about a week or maybe two after that incident. Our lawyers were in a meeting room and we were both present and my L brought that up that it's his clients parenting time and she can't do that. He was leaning on her pretty hard and she said "He doesn't know how to talk to me!" I could tell she was really hurt and the reason why is because I was in low contact and I was parallel parenting. Her oldest daughter was born pre-millenium and parallel parenting wasn't developed then, her father didn't get a court order and it was chaos for him for access, courts are acknowledging high conflict today in the 10's. I don't think that she had thought that far ahead and she was realizing that she was losing me.

When we talk I am trying BIFF (Brief / Informative / Friendly / Firm) with some success and I have also tried SET - but do not always do well with this.

These are good communication tools Joe but we can only try the tools and if the tools don't work. There's nothing that we can do if our exes are emotionally unstable. The tools take practice, I look at the tools as on the job training, you keep practicing and you'll get better.

I'm going to guess that she's baiting and she's also angry in her emails? I'll give you tips that may help you. My ex will often blame shift or project when she's unstable. What I think that's the most important thing to remember above BIFF and SET is JADE. I say things once and I don't repeat what I already said. It's there in black and white and you can easily read an old email if you missed something? What also helps is that I will look at what is valid in the email throughout the anger and emotional immaturity and answer that and eject everything else that she says.

I recall when we were together, often we talked through Facebook or email while I was working and when she was unstable there would be 30 or 50 replies in our threads. Today there may be 3 or 4 because I don't JADE  when she's unstable. Validate what is valid, don't validate the invalid. I know today that this may be easier said than done when you're in the the thick of it. If I don't answer when she's baiting I may get 4 back to back emails in my inbox and I know that she can't control her impulses and when she's like that I wait for a few hours and sometimes I'll wait until the next day because I hope to find her in a different mood. Feelings are quicksilver to a pwBPD.

It took time for me to get tempered with her anger after the marriage but I know that her anger is unrelated and has nothing to do with me. I spot what's valid in her message and depersonalize her vulgarity and emotional immaturity. That way I can get things done for the kids. Hang in there Joe.

Thanks Mutt, I have not read about JADE so will put it on my list.  My friends have told me on a number of occasions that it was best I did not have children with her, your story makes their message abundantly clear.

You sound quite a bit further down the road in your healing and acceptance than I am.  Particularly where you mention "I know that her anger is unrelated to me".  I kind of know that intellectually but emotionally just can't go there yet.  I am unresolved about who or what to blame for all this. 

Have you ever just felt real angry about the whole BPD complex? Isn't there something to vent on.  Feels at times like I need to be saintly in my understanding.  Or it is like a ghost of a disease has visited but nothing visible remains and trying to identify and describe it all is crazy making. 

I know she is not at fault b/c of her illness so what is one to do with all the feelings of hurt and misunderstanding from her anger which are exacerbated with my own feelings of deep loss and no way to reach out and just tell her that it is ok.  It is like going to a funeral for a loved one and the person being memorialized is in attendance but unreachable.  Hard to mourn for and relate to the same person at the same time.

I know healing from all this is a long term deal.  I have to give myself some credit for this recent communication.  I did not get upset, I did not get overly emotional with sadness and lamentation and I chose to not just ignore her message which is just as bad as being over reactive (as I have learned firsthand).

I simply responded to her text inquiries with answers for her and when she pressed and tried to engage me in the merry go round of anger, I simply and adult-like stated my preferences.  That may sound small, but it is big for me.  So, though not in the habit of patting myself on the back, I will consciously acknowledge some of my growth through all of this.   

Thank you!

[Mutt]

I simply responded to her text inquiries with answers for her and when she pressed and tried to engage me in the merry go round of anger, I simply and adult-like stated my preferences.

Kudos Joe. It sounds like she was baiting and you responded maturely   I think that these little victories will multiply if you keep at it and it becomes second thought. Be patient with yourself and celebrate these accomplishments.

Have you ever just felt real angry about the whole BPD complex? Isn't there something to vent on.  Feels at times like I need to be saintly in my understanding.

Yes I have felt angry at the disorder. I recall thinking about BPD one evening and how frustrated I felt with the disorder because of how my ex sees me as either all good or all bad and how she cannot see both sides of me and understand that I'm not the person that she thinks that I am. I felt like BPD is too complicated for me, it's not something that I can fix. I came to the realization that there are things in life that are too complicated for people to understand. I say this from my personal experience and it's not necessarily the views or opinions of anyone else here. You can take what you feel fits right for you or discard it.

I let go and let god. My ex wife has her path and I have my path and I asked god to look over her. I felt a lot of sadness that I cannot help my ex wife or make her understand that she's ill. I understand that she may get help someday if people continue to enable her behaviors. I removed myself as an enabler, that way there's one less person in her network. She has a dependency, things that she should be doing on her own and maybe someday she won't have people that will enable her behaviors and it will force her to look at her own behaviors and self reflect and that could be the catalyst for change. I believe that it may come from one of our kids in the future, but I don't believe that I will be the person that will get through to her. She has lived her life avoiding and she would need to have self reflection. That being said.

I completely understand what you mean when you say it feels like going to a funeral for a loved one. I'm not sure if you have similar feelings but I grieved the woman that I had first met, the person that idealized me, by the end of our marriage my ex wife was more often angry at me than happy with me. She was someone that I could no longer recognize. For me it was grieving the person that I fell in love with, grieving our marriage and my dreams of growing old together and realizing and accepting that my ex wife suffers from mental illness. Grieving a loved one is sad, but you can find peace with radical acceptance and accepting her for who she is.

Here's an article on JADE: Understanding JADE

[joeramabeme]

Mutt, as usual, thank you; your words resonate right to the core of the discussion.

I'm not sure if you have similar feelings but I grieved the woman that I had first met, the person that idealized me, by the end of our marriage my ex wife was more often angry at me than happy with me. She was someone that I could no longer recognize. For me it was grieving the person that I fell in love with, grieving our marriage and my dreams of growing old together and realizing and accepting that my ex wife suffers from mental illness. Grieving a loved one is sad, but you can find peace with radical acceptance and accepting her for who she is.

Yes, Yes, Yes... .

At times I look at my own reactions to this loss and say to myself; if I was so unhappy then how could I miss her so much.  But as you say, it is a grieving of the person I met who loved me and idealized me.  The person who I planned to spend the rest of my life with but is now more like a living breathing apparition. 

I keep practicing acceptance.  Acceptance is difficult.  Feels like it encompasses more than just a lost marriage, it also brings up multiple other significant losses.  I am practicing and will keep practicing as interludes of sadness keep washing over me... .

Thanks for the link on JADE.  Fits me to a "T" and I have unknowingly been practicing not doing this.