Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
October 05, 2024, 07:26:19 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Near or in break-up mode?
What Does it Take to Be in a Relationship
Is Your Relationship Breaking Down?
Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle
Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)
95
Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: He drove my son off - what do I do about my cat?  (Read 1068 times)
Ceruleanblue
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1343



« on: November 30, 2015, 03:24:26 PM »

I'd thought yesterday was an "okay" day for BPDh and I. I mean, he ignored me for most of the day, but there weren't any conflicts. Well, right before bedtime, my 19 year old daughter asked to talk to me. She had huge eyes, and she told me she thinks BPDh hurt my 12 year old cat. She heard BPDh say "you F-ing, worthless, piece of sh#t", and she heard my cat crying loudly.

What's weird is that I'd just asked BPDh just that morning if he wanted me to get rid of my cats, because he hates them(less so the one HE adopted), and he mocked me and said "you'd never get rid of Chester". I've had him 12 years, and he's a good cat. No litter issues, he's just good.

So when I went and asked BPDh about if he'd hurt the cat, he got angry, and said he didn't hurt the cat. He said he didn't even touch him. Now, I don't believe him. The cat was downstairs, hiding and cowering, and this IS NOT a timid cat with anyone except BPDh. This cat can still back my now17 year old son in a corner when they play.

He then went on to tell me he wants me to leave, to just get out, and that he's been trying to tell me he wants a divorce. He does this every year about this time. He gets super depressed, super mean and volatile, and he wants out of the marriage. Last year was the first year he actually physically left, and I filed for divorce(because he refused to come back... .he's still mad that I filed, although he'd seen his attorney to file). We reconciled, things were so much better for a while, he was bragging to people how glad he was I'd taken him back, but now he's back to saying it's all my fault, and that I never change.

Now, I've ACTIVELY worked on the things he's asked me too, but even though there is clear evidence, he denies it. I've stopped calling his girls derogatory names, and it's been two months. Believe me, I've kept track. These adult girls of his are breaking his heart, because they refuse to see him as long as he's married to me. Yet I'm the only one he takes his rage and blame out on. I've apologized to these mean girls for things I didn't do, I've kept the door open, and tried for peace over and over. They just want BPDh all to themselves, and they want total control of him like they used to have.

He left me for them before, and I'm afraid he's about to do it again. He gets depressed, and he can't see ANY good in me, or in our marriage. And frankly, his kids will welcome him back with open arms if he leaves me, and he knows that.

What do I do about my cat? He already drove my son off, and he's now living with my parents. BPDh has me, a wife that has great compassion for him, and wants to be there for him, but he just pushes me away. He's having issues with people at work, his kids want nothing to do with him(except his son if he wants money), and he's pushing ME away, the only one who shows him true understanding and acceptance.

He says he'll get help for the depression, but if I ask him about it, he'll explode on me. How do I handle this? Do I give him his way and give up my cat to my parents? How far can I let him keep pushing me and controlling me, just because I'm scared?

Help, please!
Logged
RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING
This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 08:40:35 PM »

  Uggg, this is a horrible situation to be in.  On the one hand, you know what happened.  On the other hand, there is not an eye witness.  There is also DV history here.  My understanding (ok it's really my guess, but I think it's an informed one) is that people that have crossed the line into hurting people will also hurt animals.  OK, please have another talk with him.  Don't challenge him, but ask him to describe the incident.  What was the cat doing crying out?  I've been around cats (as have you).  I've seen (heard) cats vocalize when they feel threatened but aren't actually touched.  So, the more I think about it, it is possible that they were having a standoff.  Hubby cussing and "threatening" the cat and the cat "vocalizing" or "screaming" and the cat never got touched.  It's possible.  I see it more in cat to cat behavior, but I have seen it in cat to human.  There is lots in this post, but somehow figuring out if it was physical or verbal would seem to be next step.                     

FF  
Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10913



« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 08:57:34 PM »

I am sorry that he is putting your though this.

I think when it comes to creatures that need to be protected, ( including children) one has to do what is best for them.

Is it in the best interest of the cat to be there?

From what I have read about how your H dislikes your son, I think you did the best thing for him which is to have him live in a home where he is safe, loved and wanted.

The best place for the cat is to be where the cat is safe, loved and wanted.

You have chosen this relationship, but your son, and your cat did not.

I think one can look at this as you giving up something ( and it seems that you have) but I also think one has to consider what is in the best interest of the cat.

I know you love your son, and your cat, but I don't think your H does.

Logged
KateCat
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 2907


« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2015, 09:07:30 PM »

I'm sorry he threw you straight into this dilemma. 

Can you leave for your parents' house with your daughter and your cat in order to get some time to sort things through in your mind? Your daughter will need you to take the lead during this crisis, I think.
Logged
patientandclear
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: single
Posts: 2785



« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2015, 11:56:18 PM »

I think when it comes to creatures that need to be protected, ( including children) one has to do what is best for them.

Is it in the best interest of the cat to be there?

From what I have read about how your H dislikes your son, I think you did the best thing for him which is to have him live in a home where he is safe, loved and wanted.

The best place for the cat is to be where the cat is safe, loved and wanted.

You have chosen this relationship, but your son, and your cat did not.

I think one can look at this as you giving up something ( and it seems that you have) but I also think one has to consider what is in the best interest of the cat.

I know you love your son, and your cat, but I don't think your H does.

It is in the interest of kids and animals for their owner/loved one not to send them away in order to maintain a relationship with someone who hurts them (physically or emotionally).

I respect that this is a Staying-themed board, but saying that it is in the best interest of son or cat to separate them from mom/primary caretaker seems to miss the obvious solution that is actually in both son's and cat's best interest.  I get that maintaining the r/ship may be what CB wants.  But that is not the same thing as it being in the best interest of the dependents.

CB --  .  I worry for you when you say you are "afraid" he will leave you, after you detail all his nastiness toward you.  You are inventorying all the pieces of you you can give away to keep him happy.  You are proactively offering to give away your cats to make him happy.  I don't think carving off pieces of yourself to make your partner happy is likely to be successful, and meanwhile, you run a real risk of losing yourself.
Logged
Ceruleanblue
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1343



« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2015, 11:57:06 PM »

Well, I'd like to think it was just my cat yowling at BPDh to "back off", but I've never seen him do that to anyone other than my son while playing. With BPDh he just cowers, and runs and acts scared. Which is so unlike, my feisty cat. He's sort of a bully outside, so I keep him inside. I've never not had a cat, from the time I was born, our cat slept near my bed.

BPDh's story just doesn't ring true. Plus, he lies to save himself all the time(wish he'd realize this just makes trust impossible, and drives people away), and I really feel he did touch/harm/hurt my cat in some way. He said he was trying to get both cats into the finished basement, which also doesn't make any sense. The cats roam the house at night, and we never lock them up. Why would he be trying to get them to go in the basement? He's never done that before, and it was right before bed. There isn't even a door to keep them down there, as both levels are living space. The story was just so ludicrous, I didn't even think to ask him why he wanted the cats down there, as there is no way to keep them down there.

I didn't hear any of this, but my 19 year old daughter is convinced he hurt the cat. She too has always been around cats, and is a huge cat lover. She knows all our cats different cries, and I trust her when she said it sounded like BPDh was hurting the cat.

I guess I probably need to consider letting my cat go stay with my parents. The cat is really good at staying away from BPDh most times, in fact, he slinks as far away from him as possible, and it's sad to watch. It's becoming sadly obvious to me that BPDh lacks self control, and I can't even trust him around my cat. I'm just heartbroken because this feels like another loss. I keep having to give up people and now animals I love, just to make BPDh "happy". No wait, he's never happy. It's about power and control. Simple as that.
Logged
patientandclear
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: single
Posts: 2785



« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2015, 12:04:20 AM »

Well, I'd like to think it was just my cat yowling at BPDh to "back off", but I've never seen him do that to anyone other than my son while playing. With BPDh he just cowers, and runs and acts scared. Which is so unlike, my feisty cat. He's sort of a bully outside, so I keep him inside. I've never not had a cat, from the time I was born, our cat slept near my bed.

BPDh's story just doesn't ring true. Plus, he lies to save himself all the time(wish he'd realize this just makes trust impossible, and drives people away), and I really feel he did touch/harm/hurt my cat in some way. He said he was trying to get both cats into the finished basement, which also doesn't make any sense. The cats roam the house at night, and we never lock them up. Why would he be trying to get them to go in the basement? He's never done that before, and it was right before bed. There isn't even a door to keep them down there, as both levels are living space. The story was just so ludicrous, I didn't even think to ask him why he wanted the cats down there, as there is no way to keep them down there.

I didn't hear any of this, but my 19 year old daughter is convinced he hurt the cat. She too has always been around cats, and is a huge cat lover. She knows all our cats different cries, and I trust her when she said it sounded like BPDh was hurting the cat.

I guess I probably need to consider letting my cat go stay with my parents. The cat is really good at staying away from BPDh most times, in fact, he slinks as far away from him as possible, and it's sad to watch. It's becoming sadly obvious to me that BPDh lacks self control, and I can't even trust him around my cat. I'm just heartbroken because this feels like another loss. I keep having to give up people and now animals I love, just to make BPDh "happy". No wait, he's never happy. It's about power and control. Simple as that.

We cross-posted.  I think we pretty much said the same thing.  I think your conclusion about the futility of making him happy by sacrificing aspects of yourself that mean a lot to you ("I've always had a cat" is very important.  If it won't work, why pursue that approach?  Especially if it costs you so much?
Logged
Ceruleanblue
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1343



« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2015, 12:06:50 AM »

I'm not scared of losing myself this go round. I definitely was there before we split up last year. My son now living with my parents, was a hard, hard choice to make. I miss him every day, but in some ways, our relationship is better. He used to be terribly disrespectful of me, and now when we spend time, he's much, much more respectful. I see him often, it's just not every day like I'd like. I absolutely know though that he's better off not being around BPDh, and he wanted to finish high school at the school he'd always attended. It was actually my son who told me to save my marriage, and my daughter who lives with us, who told me not to take BPDh back! Weird that they now have a super close relationship. BPDh will never be close to my son. He doesn't seem to ever change his views of people, or forgive, or see that people can do better.

I don't view it as losing myself, but I do feel he's trying to isolate me. I feel he's trying to make me make choices to see how much I love him? Talk about insecurity. I feel he is really insecure, but he tries to hide it. I feel his huge need for control, is so he can make his world feel "safe" too. He's a bully, but I don't think he sees it that way. I just try to remember that while he seems cruel to me at times, that inside, he's probably really hurting. Or scared, or lacks the skills to deal with his emotions. Heck, I don't even think he's in touch with his emotions other than rage, and self pity.

I don't want to give up my cat, but I will if I think he's being put at risk. I can't watch him 24/7, and although BPDh isn't home all that much, I'd hate for anything to happen.
Logged
enlighten me
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 3289



« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2015, 12:40:25 AM »

I always worry when animals are harmed. Firstly for the animals but secondly what this actually says about the person. The first thing I think of when someone hurts an animal is ASPD.

Is your husband definitely BPD?
Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10913



« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2015, 05:11:40 AM »



I agree with patientandclear in principal, but in this case, the son has been sent to live with his grandparents a while back. He is a teenager. I am not speaking about the idea of sending him there to maintain a relationship- but sending him there rather than live with a stepfather who is hostile to him.

If the cat is being abused ( this has not been established at this point)- then it may be something to consider for the sake of the cat.

The situation of giving up what is important to you to maintain a relationship is an important topic, and this involves CB and her H. However, a cat and a child did not choose this circumstance. Neither choice- to send them to live with grandparents, or not, is a perfect choice, but their own safety - both emotional and physical- is a separate consideration.

CB's H seems to be creating a situation where CB needs to make choices: his family or her family, her kids, his kids, her son, the cat. This is a difficult situation, but it involves him and CB. If the son /cat/family are drawn into this, then they become part of something they didn't choose.



Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2015, 06:09:22 AM »

  OK, let's deal with the factual side of things first.  From the story, there is no way to tell if BPDh hurt the cat.    One reason I relayed the story is that we have a 10 year old cat that is very reclusive and "clingy" to oldest daughter.  It is so rare to ever hear any vocalization from her.  She had some kind of encounter with another cat (not ours) and I was shocked at the sound our cat made.  NEVER have I heard that, or heard of that before.  I would drop any and all thinking of what actually happened to the cat.    Why would you stay in a situation where you wouldn't consider having your loved ones stay  Please don't rush to answer this.  Consider this carefully.  There is a pattern here in your life  You have a choice to make to continue that pattern or not.    Can you describe the choice that I am referencing about your loved ones and your choice to stay in your r/s?                

FF  
Logged

patientandclear
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Relationship status: single
Posts: 2785



« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2015, 08:07:07 AM »

FF put his finger on what I was circling around, with the question about staying in circumstances where it is not safe to leave loved ones.

CB--undoubtedly your H is putting you in situations to give up things you care about "for him" due to his insecurity. He is looking for proof of love. I know from experience (not with my recent BPD ex but from my abusive ex H) that there is no bottom to that project. I finally drew the line at a friend that my ex H felt threatened by. I knew if I gave that up, I would indeed be giving up a big piece of me. I remember vividly how afraid I was to draw that line and insist that I was keeping the friend, and if he wanted to stay nonetheless, great, but I was done with the model of sacrificing important things to me in a futile effort to reassure my H.

Your H is doing these things out of fear and insecurity, no doubt, but that doesn't mean appeasing will work, and the cost of that approach is huge.

CB, I really commend you for how truthful you are with yourself. It was hard for me while still in my marriage to see things as clearly as you see them. I know you want it to be possible to find some way for the relationship to be what you believe it can be. 

Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2015, 08:42:40 AM »

  but that doesn't mean appeasing will work    

               Let's also be clear that appeasing has a very low chance of working and it hasn't worked up until this point.  Basically, appeasing doesn't work.  In fact, it usually makes things worse.  Because they will continually want more in order to satisfy their dysfunctional desire to feel "secure" that you love them.                

FF
Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10913



« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2015, 08:50:28 AM »

This is a topic that I think was discussed on other threads concerning the son going to live with grandparents.

This is a pattern that worked for my mother with BPD. Growing up, we were presented with this choice: " If you don't do this, mother will leave". This being a number of things: behaving, doing what she asked, but also involved once giving up a pet " If we don't get rid of the pet, mother will leave".

Well what kind of choice is that for a child? Of course I had to give up the pet. I didn't have the choice to keep the pet and have mom leave. As a younger child, I was terrified of the idea that mom would leave.

This behavior worked for my mother, because we would do anything she wanted to keep her from leaving.

I know how it feels to give up parts of yourself to stay in a relationship. However, I think we all have a bottom line whatever that is- our kids, our pets, our families, perhaps a value such as fidelity or honesty. Maybe that bottom line is where some people haven't encountered it yet, but when we do, we know we have to take a stand for that part of us we just can't give up. If we have a relationship that has established that pattern, then making changes can be difficult. If the SO's behavior has worked for them, and then it doesn't- they may keep trying it ( extinction burst).

The partner also has a choice- to stay, leave, adjust to the new changes, not adjust and fight them. Taking a stand for what is important to us also involves that risk.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2015, 08:50:50 AM »

  I wanted to separate this out so as not to confuse with other posts.  The points made are different but very important.  You obviously like cats.  It appears that has not been hidden and was a known issue going into the marriage.  You regretted ( and it's obvious it is still a raw wound) your choice to have your son move out.  I believe you will also regret making choice to move cats out.  I'm not the biggest "pet guy".  They are ok, but I would be fine without them.  My wife would not.  I knew this from the moment I met her.  It would be wrong of me to try to get rid of pets all-together.    Think long and hard about what you are considering giving up.  Also consider that it is fine for him to want you to give that up.  He is not wrong if that is his desire.    As long as there was no deception about your status as a pet person going in the marriage this is a big deal.  It's part of you.                

FF      
Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10913



« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2015, 09:20:24 AM »

Patricia Evans books have a model for these dynamics. In her cases it is a male-female relationship but it could be either gender. The man has an image of his ideal partner - his "Teddy" who conforms to his ideals and is there to sooth his every wish. Teddy is essentially an extension of himself.

The "problem" is that, whoever his "Teddy" is, is a real person- a separate human with his /her own ideas, feelings, and wishes. Each time this person appears differently from "Teddy", the man feels wounded and abandoned, and in Evans' books becomes abusive- acting out of his own pain and also to bring "Teddy" back by hurting her into submission. Often this works because the woman tries very hard to be a good wife and meet the partner's need. However, being that she isn't "Teddy", she is bound to fail at her attempts at some point.

The wife my do this assuming that the husband will reciprocate and do something nice for her or meet her needs, but "Teddy" does not have her own needs because "Teddy" is an extension of him.  Teddy's needs are his needs- his wishes, his priority.

If this is the case, then it isn't about the son, or the cat, but the pattern that seems to be played out each time CB's H wants something, or doesn't want something and this is different from what CB wants. This is inevitable- they are two separate people.

Evan's books give some steps to help with this. I don't recall them immediately, but understanding the dynamics was a help to me.

Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2015, 09:59:15 AM »

  Evan's books give some steps to help with this. I don't recall them immediately, but understanding the dynamics was a help to me.  

               And understanding that the real person "teddy" has little to do with fixing it.    I've not read the book, but my guess is the advice is to not take on the responsibility and not take it personally.    Basically to leave the other person to their own devices to sort out their "teddy" within themselves.                

FF
Logged

maxsterling
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic Partner
Relationship status: living together, engaged
Posts: 2772



« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2015, 10:09:54 AM »

From my experience, cats seem pretty adept at sensing emotions.  My old guy pretty much loves everyone, but when W is in a rage mood or loud, he goes to hide, and gets quite testy with her.  Out year and a half old kitten has been on me like glue since W's suicide attempt, and I don't think that is a coincidence. 

W has at times yelled and screamed at the cats, smacked them, and thrown things at them.  Lately, though, she has been quite lovey with them.  Back when she was nasty to the cats, I almost considered that a breaking point for me.  Violence towards animals is a HUGE red flag. 
Logged

Cat Familiar
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7501



« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2015, 10:46:58 AM »

Many years ago, an acquaintance was visiting and while we were chatting in the kitchen, my cat was sleeping on a barstool adjacent to my "friend." He decided he wanted to sit there, so he swept the cat off. The cat was so unaccustomed to being treated in this manner that he fell to the floor before he got his feet underneath him. I gave this person a talking to about disrespecting animals and never again invited him to our home. I realize this was a case of obliviousness rather than intentional abuse.

Abusiveness to animals (or people) is a deal breaker for me. One strike and you're out.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10913



« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2015, 01:11:32 PM »

How can the decision to send a cat to the grandparent's home be any harder than the decision to send a child there?

If that is the better place for a child, then it is the better place for the cat.

Yes, loving the cat and the child has meaning here, but somehow it was evident that at the grandparents' home- the child was welcome, whereas at his mother's home, only one parent wanted him there. The issue is the conflict in the marriage. If the son had stayed, he may have been the focus of conflict. With the child out of the way, the the conflict moves on to something else.

Said from the perspective of  a teen whose mother would tell her that her parents wanted to send her away. Yes, the teen son said "save your marriage". I would have said the same thing at his age, because I thought going away to college would make their lives better. I was completely shocked to learn from younger siblings that the issues they had continued after I left home.

It's a gift to have a home where you feel chosen and wanted by the adults and are not in the middle of their conflicts. If that is the best place for a child, then why not a cat as well?

Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2015, 01:42:59 PM »

  Notwendy, I see where you are going with your thinking.  Not saying it is wrong.  Questions:  After the cat goes, then what is next?  With the kid you have a "one of" situation.  The next decision establishes a pattern that reinforces BPDH's worldview.  Also, from CBs posts I clearly "felt" that she felt bad for making the choice to send her son away and wishes (CB please correct if I am wrong) that she had made a different choice.  Also came through loud and clear that after sending away the kid things didn't get better.  The deal didn't work.  Here is the big question:  If it is not safe for a child and a cat, what is CB doing there?  Please note:  I'm not saying it is a safe environment and I'm not declaring it unsafe, that is ultimately a decision for CB to make.                

FF  
Logged

Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10913



« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2015, 02:15:10 PM »

FF, the pattern of appeasement does lead to a "what's next?"  How much to give in is too much?  Is the environment a good place for CB? I don't have the answer to that. I think that is an individual decision that CB has to make.

What I am focusing on is the distinction of who makes the choices here. CB can choose what she wishes to do- what she wishes to live with. However, a child can not make this choice, and neither can a cat.

There are two aspects to this choice.

One is the pattern of giving up something for the relationship.

The other is choosing what is in the best interest of a living creature who can not make a choice.

There could be some different scenarios.

One is to hold ground and the cat stays. That could cause an angry response in CB's husband and the possibility that he would take it out on the cat.

Substitute child for cat and it could possibly be the same thing.

Keeping the cat will not solve the conflict and it will possibly continue, however, holding ground and not giving in has some effect on the situation.


Another is for CB to send cat to grandparents. This won't likely solve the problem and is possibly appeasement , but the cat is safe from abuse.


Perhaps this can also be placed on the victim triangle. If CB gives up the cat, she could feel like a victim. Or, she can decide she is not a victim and made the choice that was best for the cat ( whatever that is) The act of giving up the cat is not what determines who is giving up too much, it is the mindset upon how the decision was made.

Victim role is stepping on the triangle. However, there is a potential real victim here, and that is the cat. Everyone else has choices, but the cat does not. The cat is a small, dependent, and living creature. The H is a grown man.

It is up to CB to decide what is safe for her or not. She may have ways to protect herself that a cat does not. Ultimately, she has a choice to be there or not. However, the cat does not have a choice and depends on his humans to protect him, and she has to choose for him.

The H may have a different threshold for being rough with a human or a cat. It is illegal to assault or murder a human. It isn't illegal ( at least not to the same degree) to do this to a cat. ( but it is horrible).

To be clear, I am not suggesting that sending the cat away is a solution to the conflict. The cat is just the focus of the conflict at the moment. Sending the son to live with grandparents didn't work either. Neither will work because the cat and the child are not the source of the conflict.

However, sending them to live in a place where they are welcome gets them out of the conflict and keeps them safe.
Logged
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10913



« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2015, 03:01:01 PM »

Kinda like the King Solomon and the baby story.

The argument is over the "baby".  (cat)

One solution- to hold ground might put the "baby" in the center of conflict and so "cut it in half".

The other is to give up the "baby" to save it.
Logged
Chilibean13
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 204


« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2015, 03:08:39 PM »

Is your husband definitely BPD?

I wonder the same. It sounds to be like he could be more ASPD.
Logged
JohnLove
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 571



« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2015, 03:29:51 PM »

A cat on the Karpman drama triangle... .and I thought I'd seen it all. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Is this a natural progression? Maybe one day CB will be living at the parents. With her son and cat.
Logged
Daniell85
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 737


« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2015, 04:13:07 PM »

Broadly, I agree with chilibean. There seems to be more going on here than BPD.

One of the things that happens to people in relationships with BPD or ASPD (sociopaths) are the development of "trauma bonds". Which make it very difficult to leave an abuser. Anyone who is interested could look into the book Trauma Bonds, or google the term. There is a lot of stuff out there.

Logged
Notwendy
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 10913



« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2015, 04:21:59 PM »

Just about anyone or anything can be drawn onto the triangle for someone who relates to others in that fashion.

However, as adults, we should not take the victim perspective, for we can forget that we have choices, even if they are difficult ones. There is a cost and benefit to being in each of the roles. I think some of us are familiar with the cost and payoff for being in rescuer role, and victim role is often absolved of responsibility for the conflict.

Children, pets and the elderly are particularly vulnerable. They have no choice and they are dependent on the adults on the triangle to take care of them and protect them. The could become true victims- no choice, no benefit from the relationship between the adults when caught in their conflict.

There is often a price and a payoff to being on the triangle. Otherwise, people would not be acting in that fashion.

A romantic relationship, even a difficult one, has a payoff. For some it is the love bombing, or sex, or something between two people. However, cats, children, do not get a payoff from being involved in such a relationship between the two adults. Yet they can get caught in the crossfire, be projected on ,or blamed for problems.

A partner/spouse may have a reason to stay or choose the relationship, however, a child/pet will not benefit from it- or being involved in the drama.

Furthermore, there is a huge size difference between a man and a cat. An angry kick to the cat could be fatal.  

Logged
Ceruleanblue
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 1343



« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2015, 04:36:48 PM »

Well, BPDh definitely knew I loved animals, cats especially, when we started dating. I even used to be into dogsledding with a boyfriend, but didn't like the way some dogs were treated. BPDh even let my cat live with him when we were dating, because I couldn't have him where I lived. He lived with him for about six months. I had no idea he hated my cat, but then, I didn't know a LOT of things about BPDh. He acted like he was one person, but he was/is actually another.

My cat has avoided him for years, but I thought maybe BPDh just yelled at him sometime or kicked at him(no contact). Well, my daughter is still talking about the incident today, and saying she's sure that BPDh hurt the cat somehow, and how could anyone do that? She's in college getting her psyche degree, and she's pretty convinced something is seriously wrong with him, which I've known for some time. I strongly suspect he's APD.

My Mom has given me the option for my cat to live with her, but she agrees I have to at some point draw a line with BPDh. I let my son live with my parents because he wanted to finish high school where he'd attended, and because it really was best for him to be away from BPDh. I love my son far, far more than the cat, of course, but I think this is my line in the sand.

BPDh has also wanted me to "give up" a couple male friends I have, and I refused to do that too. I don't see them in person, but they've been my friends before I knew BPDh, and I just wasn't willing to give them up. We talk occasionally, and I'm very transparent, and BPDh can read my texts anytime he wants. I have nothing to hide, and I'm glad I didn't give these friends up.

For now, I'm keeping the cat here. The only way I'll send him to my Mom's would be if I see a pattern, and know he's actually hurting my cat. Also, my son would really love having the cat with him. For now, I'm choosing to stand my ground on this.

You are all right, I can't keep giving in just BPDh's demands, because it will be an endless cycle. I've seen that already.
Logged
formflier
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 19076



WWW
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2015, 05:32:10 PM »

  For now, I'm keeping the cat here. The only way I'll send him to my Mom's would be if I see a pattern, and know he's actually hurting my cat. Also, my son would really love having the cat with him. For now, I'm choosing to stand my ground on this.    

               There is a lot going on here.  Let's be clear.  We don't know if the cat was hurt, touched or anything.  I'm also assuming that the cat looks fine (please confirm this).  CB, Let's slow down the thinking/deciding.  If you see your hubby hit the cat you will (fill in the blank)                

FF
Logged

Cat Familiar
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Posts: 7501



« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2015, 05:36:07 PM »

Forgive me if someone else mentioned this, but it occurs to me that your husband might be jealous of your attachment to your cat. It seems a common thread for pwBPD to destroy relationships that the non has with others and isolate them.
Logged

“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!