Signs of Affairs

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have to admit I have been hung up on accepting that my ex probably had at least an emotional affair with my replacement while we were still together.  This is something I had never expected her to do even if in the back of my mind I knew she was capable of it.  In any event not being really certain about it has me stuck in a circular rut.  

She has admitted to being in a new relationship now, however there are a few signs that suggest she might have been lying about that.  On the other hand there are even more signs that she was having at least an emotional affair while we were still together.  This not knowing for sure one way or the other is driving me insane.  I should just accept what she told me at face value but there are those nagging little things that suggest otherwise along with my inability to accept that she would do this to me.

So I am putting out the main signs of an affair to the forum to get some "gut instinct" feedback from others who might have experienced a similar situation.  Most of these signs I didn't realize until after she told me about her "new" relationship about a month ago.    



--- The biggest one was one day when I was over her place we were talking about the madmax movie and she said I told her I had never seen the original movies.  I told her that was not true, I had never said that, and that she must be thinking about someone else.  She then began acting extremely nervous/anxious, pacing back and forth insisting that I had told her that.  I kept telling her I didn't and to be honest I don't think we ever talked about any of the movies.   Her housemate was there and she was acting really uncomfortable, like she knew she was lying.   In my eyes this is classic behavior of someone who is lying after they got caught.  The next day I asked her what his name was and she overreacted ... .then said she didn't remember who it was she was talking to ... .that maybe it was her housemate that had said that.   Then she quickly dropped it.  I think she knew the moment I told her it wasn't me that she slipped up.  If she had nothing to hide she would have not acted like she did.

--- One day she accidentally text me while she was taking a test asking me what question number I was on.  I should have just pretended it wasn't me, but I didn't.  She claims her brother was taking a practice test at the same time and she was texting her brother.  Now in hindsite I think that is highly unlikely, not impossible, but unlikely.  Again, why would she lie about that unless she felt there was something to hide

--- The picture of us that she always kept on her desk disappeared long before the final discard.

--- When her parents and sister were in town she never asked me if I wanted to meet them.

--- During our last big fight she asked me if I was masturbating to women I saw out in public (we hadn't been physical in quite some time).  Sex was a big validation thing for her.  I told her no and then pointed out to her that I knew she wasn't thinking about me when she was masturbating and that women typically need a face with a name (i.e. someone they know) when they fantasize/masturbate.   The look of shame and guilt on her face after I said that was unmistakeable.  I had seen that look before and it was very obvious she had at least been fantasizing about someone she knew, most likely my replacement.

--- When we got back together briefly after the second discard she "announced" that she wasn't in love with who I had "become" this year.  She said it like she had been rehearsing it in her mind for a long time.  I think she was in part admitting she was at least having an emotional affair and this was her justification/excuse.

---  That same day she also told me she had been thinking about moving.  When we exchanged stuff a couple of months later after the final discard she announced she IS moving when she finishes the program ... .then 3 weeks later she admits she was in a new relationship.  I doubt this is a coincidence.   It appears she was already thinking about getting together with this guy while we were still a couple.   I am fairly certain there is a guy in her program that commutes from the area she said she had been thinking about moving to.  Coincidence ... .I doubt it.

--- The last couple of times we were supposed to do something together before the second discard she found a way to sabotage it and we ended up not doing anything together.  She blamed it on me but in hindsite I think she did it on purpose, or at least subconsciously did it on purpose.



So any thoughts on clear signs (or not) are welcome.  Also feel free to share your own signs that you might have seen/experienced.  

[C.Stein]

I have to admit I have been hung up on accepting that my ex probably had at least an emotional affair with my replacement while we were still together.  This is something I had never expected her to do even if in the back of my mind I knew she was capable of it.  In any event not being really certain about it has me stuck in a circular rut.  

She has admitted to being in a new relationship now, however there are a few signs that suggest she might have been lying about that.  On the other hand there are even more signs that she was having at least an emotional affair while we were still together.  This not knowing for sure one way or the other is driving me insane.  I should just accept what she told me at face value but there are those nagging little things that suggest otherwise along with my inability to accept that she would do this to me.

So I am putting out the main signs of an affair to the forum to get some "gut instinct" feedback from others who might have experienced a similar situation.  Most of these signs I didn't realize until after she told me about her "new" relationship about a month ago.    



--- The biggest one was one day when I was over her place we were talking about the madmax movie and she said I told her I had never seen the original movies.  I told her that was not true, I had never said that, and that she must be thinking about someone else.  She then began acting extremely nervous/anxious, pacing back and forth insisting that I had told her that.  I kept telling her I didn't and to be honest I don't think we ever talked about any of the movies.   Her housemate was there and she was acting really uncomfortable, like she knew she was lying.   In my eyes this is classic behavior of someone who is lying after they got caught.  The next day I asked her what his name was and she overreacted ... .then said she didn't remember who it was she was talking to ... .that maybe it was her housemate that had said that.   Then she quickly dropped it.  I think she knew the moment I told her it wasn't me that she slipped up.  If she had nothing to hide she would have not acted like she did.

--- One day she accidentally text me while she was taking a test asking me what question number I was on.  I should have just pretended it wasn't me, but I didn't.  She claims her brother was taking a practice test at the same time and she was texting her brother.  Now in hindsite I think that is highly unlikely, not impossible, but unlikely.  Again, why would she lie about that unless she felt there was something to hide

--- The picture of us that she always kept on her desk disappeared long before the final discard.

--- When her parents and sister were in town she never asked me if I wanted to meet them.

--- During our last big fight she asked me if I was masturbating to women I saw out in public (we hadn't been physical in quite some time).  Sex was a big validation thing for her.  I told her no and then pointed out to her that I knew she wasn't thinking about me when she was masturbating and that women typically need a face with a name (i.e. someone they know) when they fantasize/masturbate.   The look of shame and guilt on her face after I said that was unmistakeable.  I had seen that look before and it was very obvious she had at least been fantasizing about someone she knew, most likely my replacement.

--- When we got back together briefly after the second discard she "announced" that she wasn't in love with who I had "become" this year.  She said it like she had been rehearsing it in her mind for a long time.  I think she was in part admitting she was at least having an emotional affair and this was her justification/excuse.

---  That same day she also told me she had been thinking about moving.  When we exchanged stuff a couple of months later after the final discard she announced she IS moving when she finishes the program ... .then 3 weeks later she admits she was in a new relationship.  I doubt this is a coincidence.   It appears she was already thinking about getting together with this guy while we were still a couple.   I am fairly certain there is a guy in her program that commutes from the area she said she had been thinking about moving to.  Coincidence ... .I doubt it.

--- The last couple of times we were supposed to do something together before the second discard she found a way to sabotage it and we ended up not doing anything together.  She blamed it on me but in hindsite I think she did it on purpose, or at least subconsciously did it on purpose.



So any thoughts on clear signs (or not) are welcome.  Also feel free to share your own signs that you might have seen/experienced.  

[Mutt]

C. Stein,

I trusted my ex wife. There were signs of an emotional and physical affair the last year of our marriage. You just know. I was in self denial. Never in a million years had I thought that she would leave me after everything we had been through.

What does your gut say?

[C.Stein]

What does your gut say?

My gut says yes, my heart and head want to believe otherwise.  A fear I had right from the beginning was that if she wasn't getting something she needed from me she would get it from someone else.  My withdrawal this year due to the betrayal of trust created circumstances that were conducive for her to seek and/or accept attention from someone else. 

My heart wants to believe she loved and valued me enough to not do that, yet she essentially emotionally abandon me after the betrayal of trust.  It would have been easier for her to fill her validation and feel good needs from someone who was "undamaged", especially if they were showing interest in her.   It would have taken significant effort and acceptance of the damage she did in order to make it right with me.  She never did accept responsibility for what she did or the consequences and tried her best to sweep it and my pain under the rug.

[Michelle27]

Looking back on mine the signs were giant waving red flags and I was in serious denial too.

About 5 years before our marriage ended, seemingly out of the blue he started accusing me of having affairs.  He worked out of town on a 4 night on/4 night off 12 hour schedule.  When he was out of town, he stayed with his sister or Dad and yes, he was working for 12 hours, but had no other responsibilities.  When I was home, I had kids at home.  6 months before I ended our marriage, he admitted to a year long affair during that year.  Frankly, knowing what I know now, and remembering seeing an email within months of starting dating that was obviously him planning a meeting with a woman, he probably kept it up our whole 15 year relationship.

For most of the years he had a cell phone, he regularly (ie when he came home from his work week) he would delete all text messages.  Said his phone was "sluggish" if he didn't.  Hmm... .I had the same phone and I didn't have this problem.  One month during that year I now know he was having the affair I pulled a cell phone bill (they were in my name) and highlighted all of the calls that month on his days out of town.  Noted that he didn't make any calls to those numbers when he was home during the evenings, but rather, during the day when I was at work... . Clearly by pulling that cell bill, I had some kind of suspicion, but even when he "couldn't remember" who those calls were to/from, and wouldn't check his phone for who they matched up to, I didn't take the obvious step and call them myself.  

With everything I know now, I do believe the gut knows and the gut needs to be listened to.

[Mutt]

My withdrawal this year due to the betrayal of trust created circumstances that were conducive for her to seek and/or accept attention from someone else. 

C.Stein,

It's not your fault.

[C.Stein]

It's not your fault.

I agree mutt, her betraying my trust is not my fault.  

Her emotionally abandoning me and not taking responsibility for the damage she had done to me and our relationship is not my fault.  

My understandable and quite normal reaction to the betrayal is not my fault.

What is my fault though was not being a more effective communicator which led to more distancing and withdrawal.  I essentially gave up and left it up to her to save the relationship.  This was not the right thing to do.

I did talk to her on several occasions following the betrayal and she said some extremely damaging things that made the betrayal almost pale in comparison.   I think at that point I just shut down.  In any event I don't think I effectively communicated my feelings or needs to her and perhaps if I had she could have seen what she needed to do to make it right.  

Of course there is the good chance that she wouldn't have seen a thing but at least it wouldn't have been from a lack of effort on my part.

[C.Stein]

With everything I know now, I do believe the gut knows and the gut needs to be listened to.

I agree the gut is more likely right than not, at least in my experience, but there are times when your gut is nothing more than your own paranoia and fears.  The gut instinct needs to be examined logically before accepting it as a truth.

[Learning Fast]

My situation was somewhat different primarily because my ex was BPD "lite" and did have s higher level of self awareness.  That being said, I'm pretty certain that she wasn't involved with anyone else because when we did part and she did connect with someone else, I was demoted from lover to stranger with lightning speed as she was completely enamored with my replacement.  This had never happened before during past recycles, time apart, etc. and the shift was palpable.  Fortunately the relationship had begun to unwind over the summer and I was able to avoid the abrupt ending that many have experienced.

Additionally, my ex still tries to pass off my replacement as just a "friend" but I know thru some clandestine activity that it is anything but that.  All that tells me is that I have to prepare for the eventual recycle as I suspect she is keeping me tethered in orbit for future use.  Stay tuned.

[Mutt]

What is my fault though was not being a more effective communicator which led to more distancing and withdrawal.  I essentially gave up and left it up to her to save the relationship.  This was not the right thing to do.

C.Stein,

Let's step back and look at the bigger picture. Where you feeling disappointed, depressed or defeated? Was there resentment brewing in the relationship? A relationship are thousands of transactions between two people. What series of transactions led up to this? Don't beat yourself up.

[C.Stein]

My situation was somewhat different primarily because my ex was BPD "lite" and did have s higher level of self awareness.

I would say the same about my ex more or less.  She did have moments self-awareness but they were transitory in nature.  She could recognize parts of herself she disliked (sometimes with help) and admit the need to do something about them.  That recognition though never really led to self-actualizing change.

In fact, if she did have an emotional affair, then all the things she had admitted to me in the beginning that she didn't like about herself and needed to change never did.  Everything she disliked about herself she eventually ended up doing to me.  Apparently despite the claims of having the ability to learn from her mistakes in the past, she did not learn anything, or even worse, learned the wrong lesson.

[C.Stein]

Let's step back and look at the bigger picture. Where you feeling disappointed, depressed or defeated?

Yes, Yes and Yes.

Was there resentment brewing in the relationship?

After the betrayal, yes most certainly.  I began to resent her for ignoring my emotions and trying to just sweep everything under the rug.  I began to resent her for only thinking about what she wanted from me without consideration to what I needed from her.  I began to resent her for not talking to me, but she could talk to her housemate about personal things with regard to us (and probably eventually my replacement).

I am certain she resented me for withdrawing and for not getting over it in a time frame she felt appropriate.

A relationship are thousands of transactions between two people. What series of transactions led up to this?

I'm not sure I understand the question.  Series of transaction that led to the betrayal of trust, or the suspected emotional affair, or the end of the relationship?

[Joem678]

I had the moments of mistaken identity.  I would be like " when did she tell me that?"   

Trust your gut!  I don't know what it was but there was always a change to her behavior that told me something was going on.  Also, she would become super nice or try to explain her actions for everything.  The guilt maybe. 

[Mutt]

Let's step back and look at the bigger picture. Where you feeling disappointed, depressed or defeated?

Yes, Yes and Yes.

Was there resentment brewing in the relationship?

After the betrayal, yes most certainly.  I began to resent her for ignoring my emotions and trying to just sweep everything under the rug.  I began to resent her for only thinking about what she wanted from me without consideration to what I needed from her.  I began to resent her for not talking to me, but she could talk to her housemate about personal things with regard to us (and probably eventually my replacement).

I am certain she resented me for withdrawing and for not getting over it in a time frame she felt appropriate.

A relationship are thousands of transactions between two people. What series of transactions led up to this?

I'm not sure I understand the question.  Series of transaction that led to the betrayal of trust, or the suspected emotional affair, or the end of the relationship?

I'll put it to you this way. You said that your ex had emotional baggage going into the relationship and that she didn't self reflect. If she was to make changes she would have to have self reflection. If a loved one felt depressed and was pulling away from me I wouldn't choose to have an emotional affair. I would empathize with a loved one during a difficult period and work together. There are good times and bad times in a relationship.

She had choices. She chose an emotional affair. Why are you blaming yourself for her choices? Does that make sense?

[hashtag_loyal]

So any thoughts on clear signs (or not) are welcome.  Also feel free to share your own signs that you might have seen/experienced.  

First off, C. Stein, you're gut is correct, but it is not your fault. Don't beat yourself up. BPD do what BPD do.

As for signs from my dBPDxgf? Where do I begin... .

(First off, my ex was a waif, but anything but "BPDlite". She meets 9 out of 9 of the DSM criteria, and is very, very disordered.)

Well, the most obvious sign that finally confirmed my suspicions was at the very end when she gave me an STD. I know it hurts guys when they discard and leave you, but it hurts too when they leave and then come back -- all without telling you.

Other signs:

- Disappearing and not responding to my texts late at night (especially the very next day after we have a "breakthrough" in r/s communication)

- Her car not being at her apartment when I drive by around 11:00pm at night. When I ask her the next day how her night went, she claimed she "went to bed early."

- Hanging out with a lot of different "gay friends" all the time. Apparently my ex knows every gay man in the entire metro area!

- Getting texts all the time from unrecognizable numbers. Also lots of kik messages.

- Showing me screen grabs of sexually suggestive recent texts from an ex (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=286006.msg12695628#msg12695628)

- Having a dating profile! When I showed it to her, she at first said "one of my exes must've done that." Sure. I didn't press her on it because by that point I had decided that she was cheating and was already on my way out. I later made a screen shot of the profile (good thing I did, because it mysteriously disappeared right after I showed her... .) but I don't think she realized I did. I later asked her about it again, and her excuses were hilarious: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=286195.msg12698551#msg12698551

[SandWitch]

C. Stein,

The BPDs that I have known (bf and mom) need attention and have fuzzy boundaries.  My bf told on himself and would explode when I would ask for clarification or express discomfort.  I think when you bang your head against a wall and don't receive validation about uncertainties (criticism was the come back and I think it was designed to make me not trust myself) it is natural to shut down.  It is exhausting.  Trust yourself.  Even without the affair aspect you deserve a relationship that is right for you. 

[C.Stein]

I'll put it to you this way. You said that your ex had emotional baggage going into the relationship and that she didn't self reflect. If she was to make changes she would have to have self reflection.

Yes, I guess there was some emotional baggage from her previous relationship.  It was more than that though.  It was behavior from her past in general that she did not like about herself and I believe she recognized that behavior was wrong.  I believe she was at times capable of self-reflection but she was largely incapable of self-actualized change.  While she has probably gotten somewhat better over the years with regard to the destructive behavior she was never able to completely shed it.   If in fact she is a pwBPD then this might explain why she can't completely shed that destructive behavior.  Coping mechanisms she developed over the years may have kept the behavior mostly at bay while we were together, or at least she was better able to hide it, allowing her to believe she actually got better when in fact she hadn't. 

If a loved one felt depressed and was pulling away from me I wouldn't choose to have an emotional affair. I would empathize with a loved one during a difficult period and work together. There are good times and bad times in a relationship.

I completely agree.  There was a period of at least 3 months after the betrayal of trust before she likely started her emotional affair.   In those 3 months I should have worked with her to fix the damage she had done instead of withdrawing like I did.  Knowing what I know now about BPD I would have needed to be the "adult" in the relationship.  To be honest there were many times when it did feel like I was dealing with a child emotionally speaking.  I even mentioned it to her on several occasions earlier in our relationship.

She had choices. She chose an emotional affair. Why are you blaming yourself for her choices? Does that make sense?

I see what you are getting at here mutt.  I'm not blaming myself for her choices or actions.  She is an adult who should be capable of discerning right from wrong and is fully accountable for her actions and choices, PD or not.  She can lie to herself and others all day long to justify what she did and/or shift responsibility away from her, and I am sure she is doing just that, but in the end what she did is still wrong and she 100% owns it. 

What I am blaming myself for is not making enough of an effort to repair the damage she did to me and the relationship.  Yes, I had good reason to withdraw and distance myself but I am also an adult who should have made more of an effort to communicate with her.   While most of the responsibility was on her shoulders to fix the damage she did that doesn't mean I should have allowed myself to disengage without making some sort of sustained effort to repair the relationship.  Perhaps if she had tried to repair the damage, had actually shown some empathy and accepted responsibility for her actions/consequences, then I would have made more of an effort.   Unfortunately she didn't make any effort at all.  In short what I am saying here is two wrongs don't make a right.

Now if I had made an effort perhaps it would have made a difference and she wouldn't have been tempted to get emotionally close to another man.  Of course there is also the chance that she would have anyway. 

I think she probably already believed she had destroyed the relationship and there was no fixing it, so regardless of what I did or did not do it wouldn't have made a difference.  There may be a nugget of truth there as she said on several occasions that I would never trust her again.  In any event she made zero effort to repair the damage so in a way she set the table for an affair and I willingly sat at the table. 

Does recognizing the role I played make me responsible for her actions and choices?  Absolutely not!

I need to take something positive away from this.  I need to identify where I turned left when I should have turned right so when/if I am faced with that fork in the road again I can choose the right road to travel.  If I can't see and change the thought patterns and behavior that led me to this point then I condemn myself to the same hell she lives in and I gain nothing from this devastating loss.   

[Mutt]

 

I need to identify where I turned left when I should have turned right so when/if I am faced with that fork in the road again I can choose the right road to travel.

I understand. I can empathize with you when you say that you had difficulty in the relationship because your ex had difficulty putting herself in your shoes. You were probably blamed for all of the problems in the relationship?

Where I think that I took the wrong turn in my relationship is that I didn't have boundaries at the onset of the relationship and I didn't take the time to get to know her. My experience is not necessarily the same experiences as yours or any other member, but it might help you.

I would have sensed her push / pull behavior against my boundaries and it would have set off alarm bells that there is something wrong. I looked at how I responded and the reasons why I put up with the behavior because I didn't understand what healthy relationship characteristics looked like and I had my own emotional baggage going into the relationship.

I learned how important communication and empathy is because I can be invalidating at times due to my upbringing. I didn't know better at the time and I appreciate the things that I learned from the experience because I can take what I learned forward with me into new relationships with friends and romantics ones. I think that's what you're getting it as self reflection and to take lessons you learn forward.

I don't want to be walking on eggshells with a romantic partner. That's not what I want in relationship, I want reciprocity, respecting the differences of opinions and learning something new from a partners perspective and not worry about how my opinion might elicit a negative emotional response. I understand how much that hurts when our trust has been broken, but what I learned is not everyone is going to treat you the same way like our ex partners with BPD did.

I think that once I implement boundaries, an invisible barrier that protects our morals and values I started to make different choices. Boundaries are about self compassion and self love and there are behaviors that I have limits on and the people that I pull closer to me that I trust have healthier characteristics and don't treat me the same way. I do have limits with old friends and family members and sometimes I self protect with limited contact with certain people that have unhealthy behaviors.

I agree. There are a lot of valuable lessons in these devastating relationship break-ups. I self reflected and I didn't take the lion's share of the blame. I took what was mine in the dissolution of our marriage and I left my ex wife's share behind.

[SandWitch]

C. Stein,

I need to take something positive away from this.  I need to identify where I turned left when I should have turned right so when/if I am faced with that fork in the road again I can choose the right road to travel.  If I can't see and change the thought patterns and behavior that led me to this point then I condemn myself to the same hell she lives in and I gain nothing from this devastating loss.

This is such a valuable statement for me to process.  Thank you!

Another concept that this thread has brought home is the "emotional affair".  This was a big theme in my relationship that caused me anxiety and confusion.  Since the xBPDbf had very fuzzy boundaries others could influence his choices easily.  That meant our life direction together was constantly shifting based on him talking with a coworker who was basically hijacking our plans.  Watching her sell herself and feed his ego in front of me was very uncomfortable.  Touching him and using her position at work to make him feel happy and important made me wonder what it was like when I was not there.  Since I have worked as a manager and had training around appropriate boundaries I know this was not "normal" or "okay".  It could even lead to a lawsuit if he turned on her.  Isn't sexual harassment training wonderful?  But he backed me down by making me the bad guy.  Jealous, in secure. 

Finally I factored in that he had had an open relationship for 20 years, felt he needed random encounters to have something different for himself,  and that he saw my "inability to trust him" to have encounters as the issue; I was left with the painful conclusion that it would never work.  I was becoming an anxious mess and doubting myself.  Ending it was painful.  I am still confused as to what happened.  What I need to learn.   

One of the biggest signs I think I missed was the way we could not talk about it.  He guarded his ego needs by attacking my feelings and questions over building trust. At one time when I said her marriage problems were not really our business - he exploded and said, "I don't care if you understand - I need this.  You should be happy that I am happy."  My response was to hang my head and withdraw in in confusion.  Due to my FOO I have worked very hard to communicate in a patient, non-blaming way.  Perhaps the very first thing I will need to find out before opening to another intimate relationship is if the person is mirroring or really capable of the style of communication and empathy I give. 

Your concern for your ex partner is admirable.  Your loyalty to yourself is survival.  Thank you for sharing.

[butterfly15]

For me I noticed lapses of time where he wasn't reachable. Or his commuting took twice as long. Text messages to me out of nowhere that didn't seem intended for me, "you aren't supposed to be writing me yet". This one I remember when I was waiting for him to come to my house. I was confused and I asked him what he meant and he had a very callous response. Something along the lines of he shouldn't be texting and driving. Although I hadn't text him in over an hour. He had about an hour and half drive. He often texts and drives so it didn't really seem to apply. Little things like that just didn't seem right. His phone was ALWAYS on his person and he often turned off all notifications. No sounds or message displays across screen. Oh and then there were just signs of sex drive, etc. Looking back I was definitely in denial and still don't know why.

[C.Stein]

I understand. I can empathize with you when you say that you had difficulty in the relationship because your ex had difficulty putting herself in your shoes. You were probably blamed for all of the problems in the relationship?

For the most part yes.  In all fairness some of the problems were mine and mine alone I accept responsibility for those without excuse.

Yes, she did have a big problem empathizing with me.  It is not like she is incapable of empathy, quite the opposite, but when it came to me and the impact of her bahavior on me, she struggle or was just downright incapable of feeling empathy.  I would need to "put her in my shoes" myself by painting a picture for her so she could imagine what she would feel if the roles were reversed.  Even when I did this the empathy was momentary and never resulted in any sustained action or empathy from her.

Where I think that I took the wrong turn in my relationship is that I didn't have boundaries at the onset of the relationship and I didn't take the time to get to know her. My experience is not necessarily the same experiences as yours or any other member, but it might help you.

I would have sensed her push / pull behavior against my boundaries and it would have set off alarm bells that there is something wrong. I looked at how I responded and the reasons why I put up with the behavior because I didn't understand what healthy relationship characteristics looked like and I had my own emotional baggage going into the relationship.

Boundaries ... .yes.  The boundary she crossed the most was when she would threaten me with breakup in order to elicit a course of action from me.  I don't know if she truly grasped what she was doing but rather had learned that she could get what she wanted from partners by manipulating their own fear against them. 

I talked to her about this on numerous occasions but she never really stopped doing it.  Eventually I stopped trying to get her to see what she was doing and just gave up caring.  I took the "whatever" attitude, but the damage was still done.  When she did it, it showed a complete lack of respect for me and my emotions.  By letting her continue to do it I was not respecting myself.  The last time I brought it up (our last big fight) she gave me this look that I can only describe as hate/contempt and the words that came out of her mouth were spit like pure venom.  This instantly pushed me over the edge and I should have left to cool down but I didn't.  I let my pent up anger and resentment control me and I feel a lot of guilt and remorse for allowing her to push me into that.

I learned how important communication and empathy is because I can be invalidating at times due to my upbringing. I didn't know better at the time and I appreciate the things that I learned from the experience because I can take what I learned forward with me into new relationships with friends and romantics ones. I think that's what you're getting it as self reflection and to take lessons you learn forward.

I am sure I was invalidating at times although I am having trouble identifying where I was.

I don't want to be walking on eggshells with a romantic partner. That's not what I want in relationship, I want reciprocity, respecting the differences of opinions and learning something new from a partners perspective and not worry about how my opinion might elicit a negative emotional response. I understand how much that hurts when our trust has been broken, but what I learned is not everyone is going to treat you the same way like our ex partners with BPD did.

Yes indeed.  I was walking on eggshells, afraid to talk to her about my feelings and problems I was having with her because she would emotionally crash when I did.  I didn't want to cause a situation where she would be unable to function and get the stuff done that she needed to do.  I also didn't want to set myself up for taking the blame for her failures. 

I almost always felt like I was between a rock and a hard place right up to the end and I choose to put aside my emotions and needs to keep her stable.  This resulted in a breakdown of communication which I realize now I shouldn't have allowed to happen.   I should have not been afraid to talk to her and in a way by doing this I was taking responsibility for her emotional stability when it wasn't my place to do so.   In this way I failed myself, her and our relationship.

I think that once I implement boundaries, an invisible barrier that protects our morals and values I started to make different choices. Boundaries are about self compassion and self love and there are behaviors that I have limits on and the people that I pull closer to me that I trust have healthier characteristics and don't treat me the same way. I do have limits with old friends and family members and sometimes I self protect with limited contact with certain people that have unhealthy behaviors.

I agree and I am usually good with boundaries.  With her, the boundary busting wasn't frequent at all, but when it did happen it did a lot of damage to me.  Couple that with my fear of talking to her about my feelings at risk of her dysregulating just made the boundary busting all that much worse.

I agree. There are a lot of valuable lessons in these devastating relationship break-ups. I self reflected and I didn't take the lion's share of the blame. I took what was mine in the dissolution of our marriage and I left my ex wife's share behind.

Yes mutt, I agree.  I only wish to own my mistakes and learn from them.  This relationship and loss has deeply impacted me on many different levels and I really need to take something positive from this.  I need this to be not only for myself but for people whom I am close to now and might be in the future.

[C.Stein]

Finally I factored in that he had had an open relationship for 20 years, felt he needed random encounters to have something different for himself,  and that he saw my "inability to trust him" to have encounters as the issue; I was left with the painful conclusion that it would never work.  I was becoming an anxious mess and doubting myself.  Ending it was painful.  I am still confused as to what happened.  What I need to learn. 

I also had trust issues for various reasons.  One of those reason was because she could be easily influenced by others ... .and by extension easily manipulated into doing something that was wrong.   I was also an anxious fearful mess as a result of this.  I tried to write it off as my own insecurities and paranoia, that I needed to give her the benefit of the doubt, which I always ended up doing.  I do however believe some of that anxiety and doubt was due to my own insecurities, which led me to question my gut instincts.   I think what happened was her behavior in some ways directly fed into my own paranoia and insecurity.  This is not a good place to be as you well know.

I am also confused but as the whirlwind of emotions and pain dies down I am gaining some clarity, which much help from this forum.

One of the biggest signs I think I missed was the way we could not talk about it.

A breakdown of communication ... .or a one sided communication.  In the end, doesn't it always come to this?  In the beginning my ex told me how much she valued open and honest communication.  That eventually ended and her idea of communication was more about what she needed from me or complaining about stuff she was unhappy about in her life in general and other superficial things.  There was very little depth to our conversations as time went on.  I accept some of the blame for this as it takes two to have a meaningful conversation.

Your concern for your ex partner is admirable.  Your loyalty to yourself is survival.  Thank you for sharing.

Thank you.  I do hope she can find some measure of true love and happiness.  I thought she had found that with me and I am still not convinced we couldn't have achieved that together, which is probably why I am having such a hard time letting her go. 

I tried my best to guide her towards self-love without leading her to the water.   I don't believe in propping people up and taking responsibility for their lives in spite of my white knight tendencies.  Even when she essentially asked me to do that I would instead guide her to make her own decisions, good or bad.  In this way she was able to gain some sorely needed self-confidence and belief in herself.  I think she has made some really good progress in this respect and I am proud of her for this.   This is another reason why it is so hard to let her go.   :'(

[C.Stein]

Having a difficult time today.  I am in complete denial, desperately missing her, wanting her back, trying to find every reason to believe she didn't have an affair and has not moved on.   I feel like I've slipped back 3 weeks in healing.  Simple fact of the matter is, I want her back in my life.  

Regardless of how angry I might get or how much progress I think I am making I always seem to end up right back to this point ... .knowing I love her and want her to be a part of my life.  

I try really hard to remember how I was feeling while I was in the relationship the last 6 months yet I can't quite seem to grasp those feelings again.  Sometimes I feel like they are there right at my fingertips but just out of reach.  It is beyond frustrating that I can't connect with those feelings again.

One thing I do know, there is a night and day difference between how I am feeling now and how I was feeling then about her.  Given how much pain I am in from losing her I am left questioning which feelings are real.  

Why didn't I feel this way when our relationship was breaking apart on the rocks?

[butterfly15]

I try really hard to remember how I was feeling while I was in the relationship the last 6 months yet I can't quite seem to grasp those feelings again.  Sometimes I feel like they are there right at my fingertips but just out of reach.  It is beyond frustrating that I can't connect with those feelings again.

One thing I do know, there is a night and day difference between how I am feeling now and how I was feeling then about her.  Given how much pain I am in from losing her I am left questioning which feelings are real.  

Why didn't I feel this way when our relationship was breaking apart on the rocks?

i felt this way yesterday out of nowhere. I had terrible anxiety from these feelings! I wonder the same thing. Although I have the same feelings as you, I remember my ex has been a serial cheater probably most of our 2 year relationship. He will most likely never stop. I deserve better. We all do!

[SandWitch]

C. Stein:

For me:

It is not hard to love him but I cannot feel how he loves me. To me his actions say I am not loved or valuable.  Me loving him is not and will never be enough. 

[C.Stein]

i felt this way yesterday out of nowhere. I had terrible anxiety from these feelings! I wonder the same thing. Although I have the same feelings as you, I remember my ex has been a serial cheater probably most of our 2 year relationship. He will most likely never stop. I deserve better. We all do!

Yes, me too, the anxiety is coming and going.  I have almost certainly been suffering from some PTSD this year.  If I knew with absolute certainty my ex was a cheater I think it would be much much easier for me to let her go.   Thing is most of our relationship was good, it wasn't consistently bad like you see frequently reported on this forum.  Given this it is hard not to believe in the potential for an amazing relationship with some work on both our parts.   That said, her damaging behavior left me an emotional wreck and I allowed myself to become someone I am not as a result.  This has left me with a tremendous amount of guilt and remorse.  She sees me now as that person, not the person who I really am, the person she fell in love with.  She feels I mislead her about who I really am but nothing could be further from the truth.

It is hard to let a 2 year relationship go just because we never sat down and had a real adult conversation this year about our feelings, needs and the problems with the relationship and where it was headed.

It is not hard to love him but I cannot feel how he loves me. To me his actions say I am not loved or valuable.  Me loving him is not and will never be enough. 

Yes and I feel the same to some extent.  I know she loves (loved?) me in her own way but her actions at times told me she didn't love or value me at all.  That said, no one is perfect and I am certain my distancing and withdrawal made her feel she was not loved or valued.  This is the biggest reason for my guilt and remorse ... .I let her down and more importantly I let myself down.  I can't help but feel I took the wrong fork in the road.  Instead of actively taking control of the situation I passively let my emotional pain carry me onto the path I travelled this year.

What I need from her is to consistently show her love for me with her actions.  She needs the same from me.   She would frequently say she wants to take care of me but then would continue to do things that emotionally hurt me.  This is not taking care of me.  However I feel she is capable of so much more if she can just be a little more self-aware.  I don't believe she ever intentionally meant to hurt me, with a few possible exceptions.

[shatra]

Learning wrote--

my ex still tries to pass off my replacement as just a "friend" but I know thru some clandestine activity that it is anything but that.  All that tells me is that I have to prepare for the eventual recycle as I suspect she is keeping me tethered in orbit for future use. 

------Is there any other reason she would say they are just "friends"?  Is she afraid you would blow up or contact him if you knew they were dating?  Is she afraid that if you knew they were dating, your feelings would be hurt, or u would end the friendship with her? If not, then the only other explanation is that she wants you to think they're just friends, so she can approach you again for a relationship in the future.

[shatra]

Hashtag wrote

Having a dating profile! When I showed it to her, she at first said "one of my exes must've done that."

----Yes, I read her other excuses on the link. ALso, why would an ex set up  a fake profile in your ex's name? Maybe to  try to break you 2 up? 

[hashtag_loyal]

ALso, why would an ex set up  a fake profile in your ex's name?

Because BPD logic. 

Seriously, though, I regret not pursuing it more and asking her to outline her reasoning. That could've been pretty entertaining, particularly if I played along.