Update 2...

[Grey Kitty]

OK, I'm here to help, but all I can do is hold some stuff up and shine some light onto it. Up to you to decide what you are doing with it.

Your wife finally divorced you.

Her behavior indicates that this is just one more move in the push-pull games with you. Not a fundamental change. I'd GUESS that she's likely to willingly continue occasional pulls in for intimacy (physical and emotional), and letting you be a dad to her kids, alternating with freezeouts and attempts to get money out of you.

Your life isn't going to go well if you give her the sole job of defining your relationship.

You've said things earlier about the divorce changing things for you. Time to ask yourself the tough question as to if it really does and how.

Does it change your attitude about physical intimacy with her?  Emotional intimacy with her?

Does it change how you feel about being a dad to her children?

Will you feel like you are living up to your values if you let this be "no change"?

I don't believe that there are clear right or wrong answers to these questions--just what is right for you and fits your values. I really won't even presume to know what your answers are.

Side question: Did you tell HR that she and her kids are off your insurance due to a life event? And tell her that you had to do this?

BONUS: If you tell her this and hadn't already you are pretty likely to get a week of silent treatment and get space to think about what changes you want.     

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[formflier]

BONUS: If you tell her this and hadn't already you are pretty likely to get a week of silent treatment and get space to think about what changes you want.     

Nice work,   Sometimes we know the patterns all to well.

Great questions. 

What kind of relationship do you want with her?

What kind of relationship can you tolerate with her?

I'm sure there are some ways to define things in between.

Any dealbreakers now?  I guess that would beg the question of what is the deal.

So, if you run into a a lady that seems nice and sends you signals (flirts whatever) what do you think you will do?

FF 

[MaroonLiquid]

Huh... .? 

Interesting... .

FF

My thoughts exactly... .   

Wow! That's a major push/pull cycle that she had to take to the Divorce level. Enjoy the ride!

yeah, not really sure what to make of it.   It's a bit perplexing.    Not gonna worry about it. 

Protect your feelings and be aware you are now a test pilot.

FF

Why am I now a test pilot?

OK, I'm here to help, but all I can do is hold some stuff up and shine some light onto it.   Up to you to decide what you are doing with it.

Your wife finally divorced you.

Her behavior indicates that this is just one more move in the push-pull games with you. Not a fundamental change. I'd GUESS that she's likely to willingly continue occasional pulls in for intimacy (physical and emotional), and letting you be a dad to her kids, alternating with freezeouts and attempts to get money out of you.

I've thought about this.  Two nights ago she was telling me the full story on why her dad didn't come.  She made the comment that she realizes that her dad's only motivation in life is money and that's all he cares about.  I responded, "That is a very harsh reality." when I was actually thinking, "Sounds familiar". 

Your life isn't going to go well if you give her the sole job of defining your relationship.

You've said things earlier about the divorce changing things for you. Time to ask yourself the tough question as to if it really does and how.

Does it change your attitude about physical intimacy with her?  Emotional intimacy with her?

I thought it would.  It really hasn't.  I still want to be intimate with her on every level.  I'm sure I'll get flamed or called a chump, but just being honest.

Does it change how you feel about being a dad to her children?

It doesn't here either. 

Will you feel like you are living up to your values if you let this be "no change"?

I'm not sure what you mean here.

I don't believe that there are clear right or wrong answers to these questions--just what is right for you and fits your values. I really won't even presume to know what your answers are.

Side question: Did you tell HR that she and her kids are off your insurance due to a life event? And tell her that you had to do this?

I got a copy of the divorce decree first, and it's stipulated that her and the kids stay on my insurance this year.  Obviously the judge granted it because I wasn't there to fight it.

BONUS: If you tell her this and hadn't already you are pretty likely to get a week of silent treatment and get space to think about what changes you want.     

That's funny, but so true.

Great questions. 

What kind of relationship do you want with her?

What kind of relationship can you tolerate with her?

I would like to have a romantic r/s with her.  I love having a sexual r/s with her.  I can definitely tolerate that!     I would like to someday be married to her again if/when she gets help. 

I'm sure there are some ways to define things in between.

Any dealbreakers now?  I guess that would beg the question of what is the deal.

So, if you run into a lady that seems nice and sends you signals (flirts whatever) what do you think you will do?

FF 

What do you mean by "dealbreakers"?  Since we are divorced, I won't rule out dating other people either if that arose as we aren't married anymore.   

[formflier]

 

I say test pilot because there are more unknowns.

Or maybe there aren't.  If you want a r/s with her and don't care about the marriage.  Well, have at it.

I would encourage you to work with your individual T to think long and hard and make a conscious decision, after several therapy sessions, prayer etc etc on what you are going to do and then do it.

Back to Grey Kitty's post.  If you go along with whatever she wants to do, I don't think that will end up good for you or you feeling good about it.  It may take a while to get there, but that worries me.

I've posted several times, "Letting a disordered person come up with the plan and running your life isn't a good plan"

FF

[Grey Kitty]

Side question: Did you tell HR that she and her kids are off your insurance due to a life event? And tell her that you had to do this?

I got a copy of the divorce decree first, and it's stipulated that her and the kids stay on my insurance this year.  Obviously the judge granted it because I wasn't there to fight it.

BONUS: If you tell her this and hadn't already you are pretty likely to get a week of silent treatment and get space to think about what changes you want.     

That's funny, but so true.

This is NOT worth risking being accused of insurance fraud or anything like that... .Seems to me you could be at risk for losing insurance for yourself and your kids if you blow this one badly.

I'd run this situation by a lawyer first, telling them that you want to next run it by your HR department... .that way you did your due diligence, and it shouldn't be YOUR problem.

[KateCat]

I think Grey Kitty's questions are important. All-important. Tough to answer in a relationship like this one, and it's clear that you have loved this woman deeply and for a long time.

Can I ask one more tough question? How do the children involved define this relationship now?

ADDED: Thanks to formflier for adding in the consideration of the spiritual tradition you and he share. It doesn't make things any easier, but it can help guide your path.

[Grey Kitty]

You've said things earlier about the divorce changing things for you. Time to ask yourself the tough question as to if it really does and how.

Does it change your attitude about physical intimacy with her?  Emotional intimacy with her?

I thought it would.  It really hasn't.  I still want to be intimate with her on every level.  I'm sure I'll get flamed or called a chump, but just being honest.

Not by me you won't!

I'm impressed that you are letting yourself figure out how you feel, and keeping your actions in line with that. If your feelings aren't the feelings you expected to have, that isn't a problem.

As I said, there aren't clear right or wrong answers here. There are only things that feel right for you or wrong for you.

I don't see you as letting her make the plan... .I see you as choosing to have as much intimacy and connection with her and her children as she is willing to accept... .and as much as you can get without exposing yourself to abusive behavior. That obviously depends a lot on how she's managing her disorder / mental health / whatever quite a bit... .but your goal and role is pretty clear and comes from you.

I also see you as choosing to continue living separately from her for the foreseeable future... .with vague dreams of a level of relationship stability that might let you someday move back in with her... .but no desire to do it before that is in place.

[Fian]

Quick google search shows that you can't keep your ex-wife on your health insurance:

www.forbes.com/sites/jefflanders/2012/06/05/three-of-the-most-frequently-asked-questions-about-health-insurance-life-insurance-and-social-security-after-divorce/#2715e4857a0b49efe8ed53ac

Divorce decree can't require you to break the law.  You could choose to pay the COBRA payments for a year, as separate insurance.

[formflier]

 

Maroon,

Do you have a L?  This not something to screw up.

FF

[GaGrl]

I have spent many years in HR (don't like the benefits side, but still... .).

If you aren't married, you can't keep her on your insurance as a dependent.  She has the option of applying for COBRA, but she does not get benefits at the costs your company funds/subsidizes for spouse and dependents.  She would pay the full cost of that group insurance for herself and her children who were previously on your subsidized plan.

Your judge can't order something in contradiction of federal law.  I'm pretty surprised it was inserted in the court order.

You have some weird things going on with your divorce, that's for sure.

[Fian]

Hi Maroon, I know that most of your "friends" are on this board, however I would also encourage you to post on the detaching board too.  I suspect that your situation is not unique, and some others on the board might be able to give you an idea of what to expect.