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Author Topic: 180 days NC - hardest part is accepting you will never hear from them again.  (Read 5496 times)
NCEA
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« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2016, 12:19:43 AM »

She was predatoring me for 3 years before we met the 2nd time.  She'd email me letting me know she's on a "sort of a break from my boyfriend" - as she couldn't flat out write me "I have a boyfriend but that doesn't mean anything".

With the prior boyfriend she, in her own words, "lived a double life" - as in having two relationships in the same time. She told me that when I asked "whats the worse thing you've ever done?"

Is that lack of control?

It went on for about a year.  People don't "not control themselves" for a whole year. They go on with it because it is pleasurable. One boyfriend who is being cheated on, who she can victimize, then another boyfriend she can conspire with... .a whole drama. Why not, right? Life is boring for these people so they need it.
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1minuteatatime
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« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2016, 12:21:30 AM »

Also to add to that... .If and when they come back it is sometimes also do to who they were when they were with you! Since they lack a true sense of self. They either mirror or camouflage themselves with your traits. If you were with her for a significant amount of time, your traits became hers. So they miss that part of themselves that they were when they were with you. It's never about us! It's always about them and their needs. And we shouldn't take it personally because that part of their emotional growth hasn't evolved past that of a small child. It's hard not to take it personally when we truly loved them. Their love is infantile and mostly self seeking. They may miss us from time to time but it's more about their pain and their loss . Not actually us

Isn't that the case with us also? Smiling (click to insert in post)

We don't like them, we like our image from idealization phase so we crave for more... .

Blackbird-  I agree completely.  Mine bragged about being able to instantly mirror complete strangers.  In both mannerisms and speech patterns.  She was my anima.  I dreamed about her.  But really, I was dreaming about me.  :)eep stuff.  Really deep.  

I knew she was mirroring me and she still got in my head.  I am attracted to her physically but the mental attraction is my thing.  She knew/figured it out and that was her thing.  Sex was just so-so.    I protected myself as much as possible.(for me, mentally)  

I should have treated her like my ex-wife.  Very distant.  Complete leadership and complete stubbornness on a few things(exercise, sleep, diet) coupled with learning how to validate(I am just starting to learn the skill.  Using it to deepen relationship with my sister).  

My ex wife was never mentally attractive.(also BPD) She was not physically that attractive, either... . She went off the pill(on purpose) and I didn't use protection.  She admitted it.

I didn't know what validating was a week or two ago.  No wonder I am such an insensitive jerk sometimes.  I own 40% of the blame on my 100% that I didn't give.  I know that it takes two to tango.

This experience will make me a better person.  Boundaries.(at the end had poor ones)  Set boundaries when things are calm, not in the middle of the storm. Emotional leadership.(got emotional during the holidays like normal)  Ok to say no to stuff I didn't want to do(I didn't at the end)  VALIDATION!  Take the "long view" like I do with my family(Kids, mom, siblings, etc)  Share feelings, don't hide feelings, anxieties, fears, whatever.  That's being a man.  I also know that my heart is open to love, now.
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Beach_Babe
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« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2016, 12:37:26 AM »

There is nothing wrong with stating what it was, that they were the predators and we were the victims. Again, blaming the non for not seeing red flags is absolutely wrong.  Their predatory nature presumes that their prey is ignorant of their behavior.  Now we know and have insight but I disagree that the non bears responsibility in any of this when the BPD's behavior is so calculated, pathological and horrific.

I agree. I was not aware BPDs were predatory, however... thought  this was more of a NPD/ASPD thing?
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Itstopsnow
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« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2016, 12:43:36 AM »

Mine absolutely preyed 100% on me. Was my spiritual director in 2012 for 2 months. We never talked on the phone or emailed . I never hung out with him outside of church. Two years later he contacts me for coffee. We meet, starts texting me daily. Tells me he's leaving the priesthood and it's not because of me. He was praying about it for a year since his nephews were born. He knew all my weaknesses and insecurities . Even used a confession against me during a fight! He even says when we were breaking up... That he could never get a girl like me again, that I admired him bc he was a priest . I did admire him . I thought he was a very different man. When he was with his other gf he lied to her and said I drank, did drugs and went clubbing. I haven't done any of that stuff since my early 20's. He flat out lied. We never drank ever. I liked that he wasn't a drinker. They do prey. They usually chose down they say about borderlines. Either someone with low self esteem or someone they think they are more attractive then.  They want the upper hand! If that's not manipulation I don't know what is. Again I don't think they hunt you out like a sociopath . I believe they are driven by fear and the ideal of love! They love to love! The chase. It's not about you it's about them and their needs. So if you look at it that way.  We are just an object of the moment. You can call it prey. They may not mean to use us. But they do. And they deep down know they can't give more. Sometimes you'll see them break down and cry and tell you that you deserve better! And you know what they are right. It's part of their shame surfacing . And their low self worth. It is sad what is going on with them! I do feel bad for them on a certain level of course! But they are so destructive they end up attacking their main source of comfort and stability which they crave but can't obtain bc of their chaos
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« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2016, 12:50:36 AM »

As for the pray, predator question: If a child is drowning in the sea, and trying to save its life manipulating you to take action, You would not call that for manipulating behavior? or cold calculated predator action?

They need a rescue because they avoid inner pain, without being able to engage empathy they choose objects for their own salvation (us) . The rest becomes your own interpretation.

if they got bad execution control, or immature, they should not be good at calculated advanced manipulations?

they want objects for feeding their security, just like children and more is better, but it is a protection mechanism.
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borderdude
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« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2016, 01:13:31 AM »

As for the pray, predator question: If a child is drowning in the sea, and trying to save its life manipulating you to take action, You would not call that for manipulating behavior? or cold calculated predator action?

They need a rescue because they avoid inner pain, without being able to engage empathy they choose objects for their own salvation (us) . The rest becomes your own interpretation.

if they got bad execution control, or immature, they should not be good at calculated advanced manipulations?

they want objects for feeding their security, just like children and more is better, but it is a protection mechanism.

For them we are attachments , not whole humans. They are not able to see wholeness, to do that you must see the grey zones, not only black white. And why not more than one attachment or as backup?, it is more secure for them? At the same time we become dangerous if we develop to close connections, then we become an enemy which must be discarded. But at the same time not to far off so they lose their attachment. It is not about you, only their way of herding a collection of objects for attachments serving a purpose.

my ex got engaged because she needed the ring on the finger, the symbol, the status on facebook, but not the person or token following with it all. She did not engage because it was for the best as a couple, nor anything to do with him or hes emotions, they did not count, only her idea for being normal in her fantasy.

Actually the last could be defined as a predator actions, I am not sure.
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zeus123
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« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2016, 01:40:17 AM »

i agree with borderdude and i like to add that for them(BPDs) we are just a piece of meat, an accessory that is required. that's how they view us.

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« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2016, 02:23:15 AM »

i agree with borderdude and i like to add that for them(BPDs) we are just a piece of meat, an accessory that is required. that's how they view us.

Normal ppl would meet a person , and if they feel everything works out go for an engagement when the time is appropriate for both.

In this case: I need to get engaged, so I must find an "object" appropriate for serving this purpose and realize this as soon as possible because it fits me and will rescue my poor state.
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NCEA
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« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2016, 02:36:45 AM »

You know guys, in the US the whole dating and marriage scene is much more "cunning" and a "market" than in other places, that's another part of it. People hook up with people they see as valuable in their careers, for money, for other superficial reasons, more than in other cultures.  I bet Los Angeles is disproportionately represented in this board, there it's the worst.
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GreenEyedMonster
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« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2016, 05:02:29 AM »

i agree with borderdude and i like to add that for them(BPDs) we are just a piece of meat, an accessory that is required. that's how they view us.

This is an accurate description of AsPD or maybe NPD, but not BPD.  Are you sure your partner didn't have something more serious?
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« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2016, 06:16:29 AM »

i agree with borderdude and i like to add that for them(BPDs) we are just a piece of meat, an accessory that is required. that's how they view us.

This is an accurate description of AsPD or maybe NPD, but not BPD.  Are you sure your partner didn't have something more serious?

here is the full engagement story: her new bf broke the rs every second week because of her immature strange behavior and this on off pattern lasted months, she always manipulated him back. So what is her solution? To go inside and find the problem in her self?, to ask for a meeting and discuss issues?

She has a long pattern of violent crazy rs all her life.

no her solution was to buy engagement rings, because that would solve their rs problems!

How crazy is that?
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« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2016, 07:50:16 AM »

i see youve dismissed the success stories you repeatedly denied exist on this board.

Sorry onceremoved but disparaging board members like myself and mischaracterizing what we say is not right and doesn't help. As a moderator you should know better.  

is pointing out black and white thinking disparaging? its something we all do. in fact some things should be black and white.
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
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« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2016, 09:28:47 AM »

Hopefully no one is invalidating your hurt - I don't get that sense in reading here - your hurt is real and deep - anyone can see that in your words.

One of the problems we can get into is attaching our personal emotional experience to universal statements about the internal motivations of 18 million people with BPD and maybe 20 million more with traits. What we feel and how things look to us (especially in love) is not necessarily a reflection of the other person. And in cases of mental illness, or even traits (which is what most of us were dealing with), the mismatch tends to be greater.

Make sense?

So going to this idea of "prey", because it is a reoccurring theme in your post history (and some others)... .think about what animals of prey are for a minute.

I love horses. They are animals of prey. Their entire existence is one of fear or wariness. Take your horse for a ride around the lot and he is looking, looking, looking for something to be off, out of order.

           WOW! That wheelbarrow wasn't there yesterday. Let's get away! Oh no, those leaves moved, run.

Now my 90 lb dog (prey animal), walks around behind the horse in total peace and tranquility.

           I'm happy! That wheelbarrow wasn't there yesterday. Yea! Let's go see if there is food in it.

You will see members posts on the New Relationships board that sound like a horse (He was late for the first date, NPD?).  You will see others that operate like a dog (He was late for the first date? Have to keep me eye on that.).

With 28% of the population having a diagnosable mental condition or addiction, its a tough place to live life as a horse (prey).

This is really the essence of the conversation as it pertains here.

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borderdude
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« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2016, 10:03:11 AM »

i agree with borderdude and i like to add that for them(BPDs) we are just a piece of meat, an accessory that is required. that's how they view us.

This is an accurate description of AsPD or maybe NPD, but not BPD.  Are you sure your partner didn't have something more serious?

A good question, anyway I did not extensively try to give her a specific diagnostic. She was perfect except from one thing: Extreme Immaturity! That is now officially a disorder in its own, else she was really kind and lacked those outbursts, angry stuff often mentioned. She was like a 6yo afraid of loosing her detachments. So if I took her for a child in an adult body it all made sense. She could engage in self hurting.
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hopealways
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« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2016, 10:07:54 AM »

I absolutely agree that the BPD is a core wounded person with arrested emotional development, but they hurt others whereas the non loves and cares for others.  That is a significant difference.  I have had friends who have been physically hurt by their BPD lover and since they are men they never report it.  That's a shame.  At some point we have to see abuse whether emotional or physical for what it is and hold the BPD accountable for their actions instead of trying to give them a pass each time because of their disorder.
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C.Stein
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« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2016, 10:09:58 AM »

Personally it just doesn't sit right with me to paint such broad strokes when it comes to people with BPD or any PD ... .especially given the vast majority on this board are undiagnosed.  It just seems like a lot of finger pointing without any rational thought attached.  Yes, it is easier to heap all the blame onto the shoulders of the one that hurt us, but relationships are the interaction of two people.  If this were not true then you would not have been in a relationship.  

While you will see many similarities here between our ex's, there are just as many dissimilarities.  I can certainly relate many observations of my ex's behavior to those of others here.  I also find myself saying more times than not that she was nothing like this.  Point being here "they" are not all the same.  We, each and every one of us, are different in significant ways.  The pwBPD and just as variable and different as us "nons".  If you are going to make broad generalizations about people with pwBPD then it is only fair to make the same type of broad generalizations about "nons".  So given that would it be fair to say all 'nons" like to be emotionally abused, like to be doormats, have no self-esteem or self-worth, etc... .?

If someone does something that they feel justified in doing, something they truly feel is not wrong, does that make them predatory or just confused and deluded?   If any one of us "nons" does the same thing does it also make us predatory?  Lets be honest here, we all have done questionable things in relationships, some of which might be considered "predatory".  It is all a matter of perspective.   And what is right or wrong anyhow?  What is right for one person might be considered wrong by another.  So who is really "right"?  I let my ex push me over the edge on a few occasions and I "raged" on her.  :)id I feel justified and right doing so?  At the time I did, but afterwards I felt guilty for "losing it".  What was right for me at that moment in time was wrong for me once I was able to think rationally with logic, not loaded emotions.  I am not a person who rages on people, that is just not who I am, but I can if right buttons are pushed.  

While I can believe that some pwBPD do hurtful things intentionally, even consciously, I also believe that many of their actions are not intentionally hurtful or calculated.   For example my ex displayed both.  She has knowingly done things that hurt me and other things that she truly did not understand or see how it was hurtful.

Unless we were all tied up and physically held against our will we all freely chose to "swim with the sharks".   Does this excuse what was done to us ... .HELL NO ... .but let's not forget we chose to get into relationships with our ex's and many of us chose to remain even after numerous "real" red flags were waived in our faces time after time again.



p.s. Yes, one of the hardest things to accept is knowing I will probably never hear from her again.  
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Scopikaz
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« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2016, 10:22:06 AM »

I know In my relationship with someone I only highly suspect has BPD, I definitely did things wrong or missed red flags or ignored them or failed to put all pieces together.  Mine started out as affair.  I who supposedly am the non and should have known better had an affair.

She divorced and we started dating. I kept texting former female friends (who I've known 25 years or more) as well as former girlfriends I remained friends with. That triggered her jealousy and instead of fully stopping I allowed it to become a huge argument.  And also lied about it. That's my fault. Not hers.

I also had her move in and then was on fb too much or got frustrated/OCD when she moved stuff around. That invalidated her. Heck I loved her and should have been glad she wanted my time and attention and to help redecorate. 


All those were my fault.

Had I have recognized possible depth of her issues maybe I wouldn't have done those things. But I did. And In the end she left.

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« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2016, 11:09:20 AM »

Thanks for your post SKIP. BPD is so new in the psychiatric world it was only DSM classified in the 1980's and the DSM V diagnosis is very different than the DSM IV diagnosis. So there is some truth to saying that we don't really understand this disorder as much as we would like.

Quick fact check: The DSM IV and DSM 5* criteria are exactly the same. The DSM 5 criteria are here, in full detail (2,000 words). To my knowledge, this is the only place it appears on the web.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder

From a psychology point of view, it is very well understood. The lack of understanding extends to the neurobiological mechanisms. There is also some professional discussion about a better scheme for describing co-morbid conditions (appears in DSM appendix).




* New numbering scheme to anticipate a 5.1, 5.2, etc.

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« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2016, 11:19:35 AM »

I don't feel anyone should aggressively force an opinion nor have to defend one when it comes to coming to terms with a BPD relationship ending. The one thing I do know is that you will never know what is going on in their heads. It comes down to that. Like all BPD's are different, we "nons" have to understand it in the way that best suits us. Some need to remain sympathetic others need to see it as predatory. There are plenty of sites out there that promote both. I have personally felt both. Like the relationship stages they act differently in each stage. They should be held responsible for their actions. period. They tend to often abuse people. You can say hey they don't mean to or you can say they are "crazy." You can decide either or neither and still realize that there is something that needs to change in us for it not to happen to us again. I was absolutely a victim. I was absolutely abused. I didn't even realize it until I was so far in I didn't know how to get out. Once I did I often wanted back in to stop the pain. This is common in abuse. The devaluation stage is often dealt with intentional behavior on their part with lies and secrecy. But in the idealization phase they do tend to seek out wounded people. As they are themselves wounded. Maybe that was not your experience but it is common. These sites that promote "negative" also promote NC and moving on. In the end isn't that what we on THIS board are looking to do?
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« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2016, 12:04:56 PM »

Sure I could go on and on about the hell she put me through.  Looking back I think everything she did was a lie, all manipulations.  She even used that word many times, one time saying she "was the only person who could manipulate her ex".  So sick these people are.  And the longer we keep them in our lives the more of their sickness is absorbed by us.

Hard question... .is your current 180 NC from this SO or from a different SO?

10. FINALLY, WHENEVER I START MISSING HER I REMIND MYSELF THAT IT IS NOT HER WHO I AM MISSING, IT IS THE LACK OF LOVE I HAD AS A CHILD THAT I MISS, WHICH SHE MANIFESTED, AND WHICH I AM HEALING, FINALLY, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE. There is always a positive result to a very bad situation and this is the result in mine.

This is a particulately insightful advance (2013) from a worthy advisor.   Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2016, 12:08:03 PM »

At some point we have to see abuse whether emotional or physical for what it is and hold the BPD accountable for their actions instead of trying to give them a pass each time because of their disorder.

We hold individuals accountable by not clinging to an attachment that does not benefit us. When we see the beauty within our own lives, and are content with the elements that comprise a meaningful life--it is much more natural to feel compassion for those afflicted with relational disorders. Because one is not dependent upon another who possesses relational traits that are filled with an excess intense energy--both wondrously positive and brutally negative. Those characteristics rapidly cycle, ushering the swirling storm into the lives of those who pair with them.

Ex post facto we deride these individuals, yet ab initio they meant the world to us. Is either one clear perception? The benefit of knowledge is that we are able to learn something about people who suffer from significant personality/relational disorders and something about ourselves. That beauty, passion and love does not always come into our lives in a relationally stable package. That there are very damaged people, who are programmed by broken mechanisms which keep them trapped in destructive relational cycles.

Having experienced a person with this type of disorder what do we learn? Are we willing to let go of the hurt from the demise of those idyllic aspirations that we fancifully constructed with them--and clearly perceive. There are things beyond any philosophy that you and I perhaps ever relationally considered or encountered--and a relationship with a pwBPD falls among those elements.

When we let go of the desire for that idyllic relationship and and master our feelings, the door to compassion opens. We are able to perceive aspects that are more true than false. First, a person with BPD never progresses and manages the disorder unless at a core level they choose that path for themselves. The agent of change may be factually diverse but it is often conjoined to internalizing the consequences of maladaptive behaviors. As we all know many are recalcitrant and do not choose that path. Interacting with a person who does not desire to relationally improve causes further suffering and it is not beneficial. We neither possess the obligation, nor power to change another. It is painful to detach from someone whom we have/had strong feelings for--when they do not improve. Yet, it would be folly to subject ourselves to those destructive cycles in perpetuity. The question that we often confront is--when we know that our person with BPD has chosen not to improve, and the relationship that we desire with them will not be--why do we suffer for such protracted terms. That question, is one of self-discovery, and I believe the answers lie beyond the scope of the predator/victim paradigm.

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« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2016, 12:17:28 PM »

I don't think so blackbirdson. It is nothing like us. Sure we all loved the idealizing phase when they wanted our time and affection. But most would of been happy to mellow out in a normal relationship. Their "other self" is full of anger, rage, selfishness, childness. I don't think their is a person on this earth that would want that or to have to deal with that on a regular basis. They sold us a false bill of goods. They only have what it takes to start out a relationship. They don't have what it takes to sustain and nourish it

I see your point, really do. That was my opinion at the beginning.

But now, I think this is just one perspective. After the relationship with BPD partner ends, especially if they left us, we have narcissistic wound, and now I am pretty sure that most of the people whose stories I read every day have this.

We feel cheated, we say that they showed their true face only after.

But guess what, they didn't hide BPD from beginning, the red flags were there from beginning. There were red flags that someone else ignored and walked away, didn't even start relationship with BPD.

We have our own emotional issues that connected us with BPD, I am pretty sure in this pre-condition... .Really, I am - after all introspective work and also by reading many stories here.  I am not saying that emotionally stable person cannot enter a relationship with BPD, but they won't connect in a way we did.

Don't think of BPD persons like bad persons who manipulated you, by wearing a mask on purpose. It won't help you, won't help your healing.

You said:

I don't think their is a person on this earth that would want that or to have to deal with that on a regular basis. They sold us a false bill of goods.

In the same way, there is no person on this earth who wants to have BPD.

It takes two to tango... .Accept your part of responsibility for entering the relationship, do your inner work, find out what attracted you to the BPD person and too extreme idealization phase, to the "wounded girl" that you wanted to save and give everything, even yourself - completely.  

You sure make a lot of assumptions Blackbirdsong.  Not all relationships are identical and just because we started a relationship with a pwBPD doesn't mean we all have major emotional issues.  They definitely can hide what they truly are capable of in the beginning of the relationship.   All relationships, yes normal ones, always have that honeymoon phase at the beginning.  I didn't have an extreme idealization phase with my SO wBPD, it was in fact very normal and I often found myself thinking how lucky I was at my age in the 50s to find a woman that was attractive and seemed to have a good head on her shoulders and seemed so normal without a lot of baggage. She was on her best behavior during this phase.  There were no red flags that would lead me to think she had BPD and could be capable to act as she eventually did.  Sure there were minor things but nothing out of the ordinary.  So yes I fell in love after a time.  No it was not because I had emotional issues.  I believe she could have gotten a lot of guys to fall in love with her, there were definitely a lot of guys interested.  She was attractive, outgoing and fun, and seemed very happy.  

Then little by little things began to change but even in a non-non relationship things are not perfect and you try to communicate and work things out.  A decent normal person wouldn't leave on the first sign trouble, you try to work things out especially when you felt such a deep connection and you thought it was mutual commitment to make things work.  What the issue here is the pwBPD doesn't play by the normal rules of a relationship.  They may say and show you they love you one day, and the next day can attack you verbally, lie, cheat, and act as you meant nothing at all to them, then the next day they want you back.  Yes they manipulate you.  Whether it's intentional or just part of their mental illness is irrelevant.  So yes we get fooled as it's difficult to comprehend how they can change like this, it is true that love can be blind sometimes.  A normal relationship between non's would end after a certain point when at least one of them decides it's not going to work and it would be discussed or understood and then there's closure and you move on.  With a pwBPD it doesn't end, they keep the door open and pull you back in, they give you hope, tell you they love you and you believe them, why wouldn't you?  Then they push you away, then pull you back... .so of course after it's over we feel manipulated and cheated. Yes we were put through emotional abuse, whether it was intentional by our SO pwBPD or not is irrelevant.  Yes it takes two to tango, but our responsibility is how many times we allow this to happen before we finally call it quits.  Yes some of us non's may have emotional issues that allow this to go on for years and years, or some may other considerations... .maybe got married and/or have kids before the worst came out.   There are certainly other conditions in making a decision to stay and try to make things better or end it.  Others may just have personality traits,  be very loving and giving, a caregiver and desire to commit ourselves completely to a relationship, not wanting to give up and a desire to help others in need.  These are not emotional issues, in fact they are wonderful qualities and can lead to great loving relationships.  But when a person like this come in contact with a pwBPD, their good nature can be easily taken advantage of. To say we have emotional issues and need to accept equal responsibility is ridiculous.  It's like saying if a thief breaks into our home and steals our valuables, we are equally responsible because we had valuables in our homes.  Even if we left our door unlocked, it still doesn't justify the thief stealing our valuables even though we should have been more careful.

Yes we should all look at our failed relationships, and decide personally if we have emotional needs or issues to work on that caused us to remain in our relationship with a pwBPD for so long.  Maybe we let ourselves go too fast.

Part of the healing process and to assure we don't fall into the same trap in the future, is to have an awareness we were in a relationship with someone that wasn't capable to love as we know it.  They are capable of lying, cheating, verbal and emotional abuse, possibly physical abuse, manipulation, push/pull, and all the other traits, but whether it's conscious or just part of their reactions due to their emotional dysfunction really doesn't matter.  The pwBPD cannot show love that's consistent.    

For me, knowing what I know now about BPD, if I meet someone that had the same personality as my ex when I met her, yes I would go out with her because all seemed so normal.  One thing I'd do different is ask more questions about her childhood, and if there was some sort of abandonment issues or abuse, I'd be extremely cautious in giving my heart again.  I'd also be more aware of any anger issues, and excessive push/pull attributes.  I also don't want to be so cautious that I look for BPD on every little sign and don't allow a relationship to happen because I'm too suspecting.  Even non's have days where they're sad or moody, and normal relationships may have some push/pull dynamics.    
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hopealways
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« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2016, 12:39:12 PM »

Sure I could go on and on about the hell she put me through.  Looking back I think everything she did was a lie, all manipulations.  She even used that word many times, one time saying she "was the only person who could manipulate her ex".  So sick these people are.  And the longer we keep them in our lives the more of their sickness is absorbed by us.

Hard question... .is your current 180 NC from this SO or from a different SO?

10. FINALLY, WHENEVER I START MISSING HER I REMIND MYSELF THAT IT IS NOT HER WHO I AM MISSING, IT IS THE LACK OF LOVE I HAD AS A CHILD THAT I MISS, WHICH SHE MANIFESTED, AND WHICH I AM HEALING, FINALLY, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE. There is always a positive result to a very bad situation and this is the result in mine.

This is a particulately insightful advance (2013) from a worthy advisor.   Being cool (click to insert in post)

Thanks so much SKIP. Sadly, the 2013 posts were from this SO. She recycled me more times than I can remember. Each time it was 1-3 months of distancing/recycling/breakup not even sure what to call it. I think this time it is for good. Trying to move forward and learn to basically walk again.
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« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2016, 12:52:37 PM »

So sick these people are.  And the longer we keep them in our lives the more of their sickness is absorbed by us.

She recycled me more times than I can remember.

I think this time it is for good.

Her call?
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hopealways
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« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2016, 01:04:43 PM »

It shouldn't be her call it should be my call, and I understand this. My pain is still so great that I think if she comes around the endorphin release would be so high I would take her back. Which is why I am hoping to reach a point soon where my pain has gone down enough and I have truly moved on to be able to be strong enough to say no.

Today I feel better than yesterday. The 180 day mark gave me anxiety so yesterday was tough but now that I see that I made it through it gave me a sense of strength, i.e. I can do it.
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« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2016, 01:48:58 PM »

At some point we have to see abuse whether emotional or physical for what it is and hold the BPD accountable for their actions instead of trying to give them a pass each time because of their disorder.

Have you done this?

I sense some irritation with others for not holding their partners accountable (or conceptually pwBPD traits as a whole) - abusers to use your word - but isn't recycling the relationship the ultimate pass?

I think everything she did was a lie, all manipulations.  She even used that word many times, one time saying she "was the only person who could manipulate her ex".  So sick these people are.  And the longer we keep them in our lives the more of their sickness is absorbed by us.

While you identify her as "So sick these people are", the fact is you will go back if she wants too.

I'm busting you here a bit - hopefully not too hard - out of compassion for your anguish.  You have been recycling with her for years.  

You read Shari Schreiber and Tara Palmatier.  You have two (2) posts on the staying board where we teach basic DBT, communication, and self care skills. Two.

Do you see a disconnect here?

Its like a dialectical dilemma.  On the one hand you see her as broken and prescribe to websites that describe the disorder in monstrous terms.  On the other hand, you love her and want her so much, you'll go back in a minute.

You can't believe both so you bounce back and forth like a ball and paddle. But there is a very significant reason why you have these inconsistent beliefs... You need to tap into  that.



I think members are trying to get you to a better reality base. The benefit is that you have a much higher likelihood of balancing / solving the dialectical dilemma - and finding peace -  if you do.
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« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2016, 09:25:03 AM »

At some point we have to see abuse whether emotional or physical for what it is and hold the BPD accountable for their actions instead of trying to give them a pass each time because of their disorder.

We hold individuals accountable by not clinging to an attachment that does not benefit us. When we see the beauty within our own lives, and are content with the elements that comprise a meaningful life--it is much more natural to feel compassion for those afflicted with relational disorders. Because one is not dependent upon another who possesses relational traits that are filled with an excess intense energy--both wondrously positive and brutally negative. Those characteristics rapidly cycle, ushering the swirling storm into the lives of those who pair with them.

Ex post facto we deride these individuals, yet ab initio they meant the world to us. Is either one clear perception? The benefit of knowledge is that we are able to learn something about people who suffer from significant personality/relational disorders and something about ourselves. That beauty, passion and love does not always come into our lives in a relationally stable package. That there are very damaged people, who are programmed by broken mechanisms which keep them trapped in destructive relational cycles.

Having experienced a person with this type of disorder what do we learn? Are we willing to let go of the hurt from the demise of those idyllic aspirations that we fancifully constructed with them--and clearly perceive. There are things beyond any philosophy that you and I perhaps ever relationally considered or encountered--and a relationship with a pwBPD falls among those elements.

When we let go of the desire for that idyllic relationship and and master our feelings, the door to compassion opens. We are able to perceive aspects that are more true than false. First, a person with BPD never progresses and manages the disorder unless at a core level they choose that path for themselves. The agent of change may be factually diverse but it is often conjoined to internalizing the consequences of maladaptive behaviors. As we all know many are recalcitrant and do not choose that path. Interacting with a person who does not desire to relationally improve causes further suffering and it is not beneficial. We neither possess the obligation, nor power to change another. It is painful to detach from someone whom we have/had strong feelings for--when they do not improve. Yet, it would be folly to subject ourselves to those destructive cycles in perpetuity. The question that we often confront is--when we know that our person with BPD has chosen not to improve, and the relationship that we desire with them will not be--why do we suffer for such protracted terms. That question, is one of self-discovery, and I believe the answers lie beyond the scope of the predator/victim paradigm.

Another extremely brilliant and insightful post Conundrum. Bravo! Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #57 on: February 08, 2016, 05:51:32 PM »

 lets take an example to what my BPD ex did with some of her exes:

After initiating a rs, she needed a partner for living together, because that is what the normal people did in her view, and she needed it fast.

The new "victim" went along to her wish and agreed to living in the same house as a cohabitant. The same day scheduled for moving in to her place , she ordered the people moving his stuff to place everything on the pavement outside the house, since she already  had found another potential partner serving her needs better.

That woman is now looking for a new cohabitant, since her current is not living up to the task, as you might have thought , she got no, zero ability to produce any empathy for another person nor take responsibility, it is all about fulfilling her fantasies, just as a small child. Having a cohabitant with status as engaged is the ultimate goal, but it seems difficult.

holy macro... .


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