Why do we attack each other here?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

It sounded to me like HS might have been worried that making too many excuses for the pwBPD behavior might be enabling them and by enabling them are they kept from hitting a personal rock bottom that might have them  seeking REAL help? Someone earlier mentioned AA. It's taught in recovery that ones pain caused by their actions must get to a level that is greater than their shame and guilt caused by their actions before they will admit that they need help. I wonder if this applies to pwBPD?

When members encourage self-awareness, or having a realistic perspective, its has nothing to do with the exBPD. The ex's are gone. The influence we had on them is long gone. Its about our healing.

When we paint a distorted image of who they are or what the relationship was, we often do it to avoid facing our feeling or looking at and owning issues - it only hurt us.

Why is it so important to paint the ex black and hopeless and believe they will never be happy with anyone? It allows us to believe that we didn't have a role in the relationship failure and there was no other possible outcome.

[Skip]

It sounded to me like HS might have been worried that making too many excuses for the pwBPD behavior might be enabling them and by enabling them are they kept from hitting a personal rock bottom that might have them  seeking REAL help? Someone earlier mentioned AA. It's taught in recovery that ones pain caused by their actions must get to a level that is greater than their shame and guilt caused by their actions before they will admit that they need help. I wonder if this applies to pwBPD?

When members encourage self-awareness, or having a realistic perspective, its has nothing to do with the exBPD. The ex's are gone. The influence we had on them is long gone. Its about our healing.

When we paint a distorted image of who they are or what the relationship was, we often do it to avoid facing our feeling or looking at and owning issues - it only hurt us.

Why is it so important to paint the ex black and hopeless and believe they will never be happy with anyone? It allows us to believe that we didn't have a role in the relationship failure and there was no other possible outcome.

[honeysuckle]

It sounded to me like HS might have been worried that making too many excuses for the pwBPD behavior might be enabling them and by enabling them are they kept from hitting a personal rock bottom that might have them  seeking REAL help? Someone earlier mentioned AA. It's taught in recovery that ones pain caused by their actions must get to a level that is greater than their shame and guilt caused by their actions before they will admit that they need help. I wonder if this applies to pwBPD?

When members encourage self-awareness, or having a realistic perspective, its has nothing to do with the exBPD. The ex's are gone. The influence we had on them is long gone. Its about our healing.

When we paint a distorted image of who they are or what the relationship was, we often do it to avoid facing our feeling or looking at and owning issues - it only hurt us.

Why is it so important to paint the ex black and hopeless and believe they will never be happy with anyone? It allows us to believe that we didn't have a role in the relationship failure and there was no other possible outcome.

Well now again, I have read on here so many times that the BPD doesn't have the emotional ability to grow. You are split black and they try again with someone else expecting a new outcome. Also How it doesnt matter what you have done that they will eventually deregulate even if the danger they feel isnt real.  unless they get treatment it will always be this way.

So how does that fit into that last statement? I dont know much about the staying board philosophy but how much of that statement is sort of contradictory? Is it your belief Skip, that we should only look at ourselves and not ever play victim and never look at them having to be held accountable because they are ill like its a free pass?

I understand not wanting to feed into the hate and making them out to be monsters but it sound to me like worry about you(agreed) and they are ill so be nice(huh?)

[Invictus01]

It sounded to me like HS might have been worried that making too many excuses for the pwBPD behavior might be enabling them and by enabling them are they kept from hitting a personal rock bottom that might have them  seeking REAL help? Someone earlier mentioned AA. It's taught in recovery that ones pain caused by their actions must get to a level that is greater than their shame and guilt caused by their actions before they will admit that they need help. I wonder if this applies to pwBPD?

When members encourage self-awareness, or having a realistic perspective, its has nothing to do with the exBPD. The ex's are gone. The influence we had on them is long gone. Its about our healing.

When we paint a distorted image of who they are or what the relationship was, we often do it to avoid facing our feeling or looking at and owning issues - it only hurt us.

Why is it so important to paint the ex black and hopeless and believe they will never be happy with anyone? It allows us to believe that we didn't have a role in the relationship failure and there was no other possible outcome.

Well now again, I have read on here so many times that the BPD doesn't have the emotional ability to grow. You are split black and they try again with someone else expecting a new outcome. Also How it doesnt matter what you have done that they will eventually deregulate even if the danger they feel isnt real.  unless they get treatment it will always be this way.

So how does that fit into that last statement? I dont know much about the staying board philosophy but how much of that statement is sort of contradictory? Is it your belief Skip, that we should only look at ourselves and not ever play victim and never look at them having to be held accountable because they are ill like its a free pass?

I understand not wanting to feed into the hate and making them out to be monsters but it sound to me like worry about you(agreed) and they are ill so be nice(huh?)

In the grand scheme of things, once you have a suspicion of a personality disorder, any personality disorder, you just need to pack up, leave and not look back. Whether what happened was done on purpose or not, nobody will ever know. No point in trying to make sense out of senseless, you never will.

As far as looking at yourself and all that... .like I said earlier, if you put up with a blatant abuse, whether it is physical or emotional, and went on and on and on with a relationship like that, yeah, sure you are the part of it all. When somebody screws you over (intentionally or not) and you are willing to take it and let them do it time after time after time, there is probably some work to be done on your part. However, if you walked away from this relationship the first time somebody was way out of bounce and way beyond your boundaries, taking a look at yourself is a little bit tougher to do. Personally, I STILL have no idea what it is I could have done differently in my short little encounter with what I believe a personality disordered girlie other than being really really cautious about people next time around. Then of course, when you are too cautious, they'll tell you - "I don't wanna deal with this headcase who was screwed over by somebody before, I got better things to do"

[AwakenedOne]

Why do we attack each other here?

I haven't noticed any attacking. There is at times a "Hey, you should figure out what is wrong with you and fix it because you stayed with the pwBPD". I'm sure that advice is well intentioned though.

I think there should be a timeframe for giving out that advice or a general feel of where the member is at emotionally.

I also want to add something concerning marriage. I don't think some members factor in marriage vows when posing the "Hey, you should figure out what is wrong with you and fix it because you stayed with the pwBPD?" type of questions. I think we should show if anything more respect and care to members here who were married and endured an often or mostly hellish situation.

[Skip]

I understand not wanting to feed into the hate and making them out to be monsters but it sound to me like worry about you (agreed) and they are ill so be nice (huh?)

I don't see this anywhere in my comments or anyone's comments in this thread.  Can you show me specifically where I said or intimated "they are ill so be nice"?

Are you possibly reading into things?

[honeysuckle]

I said it sounds like... .I do not wish to have a tit for tat. I may be reading into things. clearly I got lost somewhere.

I am asking you as the site director is there a better way to respond to a person who is at the stage of blame and hate. When the BPD starts to deregulate and the non becomes effected sometimes to the point of total devastation in their world I feel it is normal to feel cheated and confused followed by blame whether it be pointed at ourselves or pointed at them. it is a process. I'm confused by your responses. I am only asking for clarification as to your meaning. Is it your opinion that we as the non are equally to blame for the failure of the relationship because we didn't get out sooner? If so, how is the information about them repeating this pattern until they get professional help fitting in? I am asking you to educate me on this so I can better understand this and the statement

Why is it so important to paint the ex black and hopeless and believe they will never be happy with anyone? It allows us to believe that we didn't have a role in the relationship failure and there was no other possible outcome.

[mywifecrazy]

It sounded to me like HS might have been worried that making too many excuses for the pwBPD behavior might be enabling them and by enabling them are they kept from hitting a personal rock bottom that might have them  seeking REAL help? Someone earlier mentioned AA. It's taught in recovery that ones pain caused by their actions must get to a level that is greater than their shame and guilt caused by their actions before they will admit that they need help. I wonder if this applies to pwBPD?

When members encourage self-awareness, or having a realistic perspective, its has nothing to do with the exBPD. The ex's are gone. The influence we had on them is long gone. Its about our healing.

When we paint a distorted image of who they are or what the relationship was, we often do it to avoid facing our feeling or looking at and owning issues - it only hurt us.

Why is it so important to paint the ex black and hopeless and believe they will never be happy with anyone? It allows us to believe that we didn't have a role in the relationship failure and there was no other possible outcome.

In many cases, like mine, the X's are not gone due to having to co-parent with them. My point was that some of us were unaware of BPD and BPD behaviors. Some if they were like my uBPDxw were clever at hiding it and even their distortion campaigns were done so as to not to be noticed by us. This lack of knowledge was costly to us. Now that we know the truth about our X's BPD and we still have to deal with them I think it would be harmful to take our guard down. I find it helpful to me in my relationship with my X to know she lies and manipulates so I can react on my end to TRY to minimize the damage to my kids. I cant afford to pretend that she is not destructive because she is. My lack of knowledge almost allowed her to destroy me. My knowledge thanks to BPD family saved me and is helping me save my kids. I don't think any of this is painting them black or distorting their image. It is just reality. A harsh reality that I have to deal with. I'm not sure if this is sort of what Honeysuckle was alluding to. I didn't take her original message as wanting a tone of insensitivity towards our pwBPD but more of not accepting bad behavior even from a person with a mental illness. I could be wrong.

I do agree with Skip that no matter what my point is above we ultimately have to focus on ourselves as we will remain stuck if we don't. Healing can only take place when you accept the things you can not change and focus on the things you can change (you).

Incidentally my keeping my guard up about my X and her BPD ways and not accepting her bad behavior has actually allowed me to act civilly towards her. I just don't let her manipulate me.

This is a very good discussion!

MWC... .

[Mutt]

Some if they were like my uBPDxw were clever at hiding it and even their distortion campaigns were done so as to not to be noticed by us. This lack of knowledge was costly to us. Now that we know the truth about our X's BPD and we still have to deal with them I think it would be harmful to take our guard down. I find it helpful to me in my relationship with my X to know she lies and manipulates so I can react on my end to TRY to minimize the damage to my kids. I cant afford to pretend that she is not destructive because she is.

I would feel like I can't trust my ex wife after a distortion campaign. My ex wife burned our marriage to the ground after I had inadvertently triggered her abandonment fears. I had no idea what was going on or what I was going through, it was an emotional barrage.

I think that the emotional distress after such an event takes awhile to work through. I also think that you have to go through a distortion campaign to understand the confusion, hurt, frustration, pain. I agree, I don't think that I would be ready to hear hard truths at this stage. I think that at some point though that it helps us to move from victim > survivor > thriver.

[Skip]

I may be reading into things. clearly I got lost somewhere.

OK.

Is it your opinion that we as the non are equally to blame for the failure of the relationship because we didn't get out sooner? If so, how is the information about them repeating this pattern until they get professional help fitting in?

I think there are good answers in the members posts about about blame. I'm not sure how to answer your question beyond what has been said or if anything I say is going to satisfy you on this subject. You obviously have a pretty entrenched opinions.  

But as an exercise, let me ask you the question you are asking, but with a change of subjects.

So if you invite a man to live in your house and he assaults your daughter after the second month, what is the responsible thing to do and who's responsibility is it? If it happens 4 more times, who is responsible for your daughters lack of well being - after  time #1 #2? #3? #4 #5?

I'm not implying anything - I'm basically asking you for your answer to your question.

I am asking you to educate me on this so I can better understand this and the statement

I feel it is normal to feel cheated and confused followed by blame... .

OK.  

[honeysuckle]

Ok. That works. (I can be very opinionated but that doesn't mean Im closed minded.)  

As a mother, I believe I would blame myself period at any point. It is my job to keep them safe.  But I would also blame the perp who ruined my daughters innocence.

If i was not aware that there was a possibility that a grown man would want to have that kind of relations with a child or that this kind of behavior even existed, does that play into the equation?  

[mywifecrazy]

Some if they were like my uBPDxw were clever at hiding it and even their distortion campaigns were done so as to not to be noticed by us. This lack of knowledge was costly to us. Now that we know the truth about our X's BPD and we still have to deal with them I think it would be harmful to take our guard down. I find it helpful to me in my relationship with my X to know she lies and manipulates so I can react on my end to TRY to minimize the damage to my kids. I cant afford to pretend that she is not destructive because she is.

I would feel like I can't trust my ex wife after a distortion campaign. My ex wife burned our marriage to the ground after I had inadvertently triggered her abandonment fears. I had no idea what was going on or what I was going through, it was an emotional barrage.

I think that the emotional distress after such an event takes awhile to work through. I also think that you have to go through a distortion campaign to understand the confusion, hurt, frustration, pain. I agree, I don't think that I would be ready to hear hard truths at this stage. I think that at some point though that it helps us to move from victim > survivor > thriver.

Thanks Mutt. I feel like I'm somewhere between Survivor an Thriver. Doing the work to be full time in Thriver stage

MWC... .

[blackbirdsong]

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