I am conflicted and don't know what to do.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hi,

I am new here and in need of advice.  My life was ruined by a relationship with a BPD sufferer.  A part of me is very reluctant to share this story, because it really makes me look like a gullible idiot, but I think getting the perspective of an outside observer may be what I need to see things clearly. My story is a long one, and I'm not even sure where to begin.  

I was a teacher at a community college, and my job was something I was very passionate about.  I counted myself among those who were fortunate to have a job that they truly loved and couldn't wait to do everyday.  My teaching career was my life, and I considered the college my home for eight years.  Looking back, I think I will always consider those years to be the happiest of my life.  The only down side was that, for the first seven years of teaching, I was only a part-time instructor, and always struggled financially.  :)uring my final year at the college, the school promoted me to full-time and made me the lead instructor of physics.  This came as a surprise to me, as I had no idea that the school thought so highly of me.  I felt very honored, and it was nice to see that I was getting recognition for something that I devoted so much of myself to.  I felt like my life was perfect.

During my first semester as a full-time instructor, I had a student who would often ask me for additional help understanding the material.  This was nothing out of the ordinary, as I provided individual assistance to any student who needed help.  The student was in her early 30's, and not that much younger than me.  She would often visit my office, where I would help her with homework problems and point out her mistakes and misunderstandings.  As the semester progressed, she and I spent a lot of time together outside of class, either in my office or in the school's tutoring center, and at some point I began to develop strong feelings for her.  I was finding that I couldn't wait to see her everyday, and was devastated on those days when she didn't visit me in my office.  :)espite our growing closeness, our relationship was always a professional student-teacher one.  One day, while in my office, she began hinting that she would like to see me socially.  I was jumping for joy inside, because I had no idea she felt the same way about me.  Yet I retained my composer and politely told her that it would be unethical for me to see her socially while I was her teacher, but that I would be willing to discuss it further once the semester had ended and she was no longer my student.  She gave a knowing smile and nodded, and that was that.  We had an unspoken agreement that we were going to date when the semester had ended.  A couple of weeks later, out of the blue, she tells me that she's married!  Her husband was in the military and had been away from home for several months.  She said he never called her, that she felt he no longer loved her, and that she was ready to move on from him.  She told me that she didn't love him the way she loved me, and I bought all of it. I honestly think that, at the time, those were her real feelings.  But, as I would later discover, her feelings, no matter how strong, are fleeting and in a constant state of flux.  I myself wanted so badly to believe what she was telling me, and when she began talking about leaving her husband to be with me, I foolishly let myself believe it.  

[Nuitari]

Hi,

I am new here and in need of advice.  My life was ruined by a relationship with a BPD sufferer.  A part of me is very reluctant to share this story, because it really makes me look like a gullible idiot, but I think getting the perspective of an outside observer may be what I need to see things clearly. My story is a long one, and I'm not even sure where to begin.  

I was a teacher at a community college, and my job was something I was very passionate about.  I counted myself among those who were fortunate to have a job that they truly loved and couldn't wait to do everyday.  My teaching career was my life, and I considered the college my home for eight years.  Looking back, I think I will always consider those years to be the happiest of my life.  The only down side was that, for the first seven years of teaching, I was only a part-time instructor, and always struggled financially.  :)uring my final year at the college, the school promoted me to full-time and made me the lead instructor of physics.  This came as a surprise to me, as I had no idea that the school thought so highly of me.  I felt very honored, and it was nice to see that I was getting recognition for something that I devoted so much of myself to.  I felt like my life was perfect.

During my first semester as a full-time instructor, I had a student who would often ask me for additional help understanding the material.  This was nothing out of the ordinary, as I provided individual assistance to any student who needed help.  The student was in her early 30's, and not that much younger than me.  She would often visit my office, where I would help her with homework problems and point out her mistakes and misunderstandings.  As the semester progressed, she and I spent a lot of time together outside of class, either in my office or in the school's tutoring center, and at some point I began to develop strong feelings for her.  I was finding that I couldn't wait to see her everyday, and was devastated on those days when she didn't visit me in my office.  :)espite our growing closeness, our relationship was always a professional student-teacher one.  One day, while in my office, she began hinting that she would like to see me socially.  I was jumping for joy inside, because I had no idea she felt the same way about me.  Yet I retained my composer and politely told her that it would be unethical for me to see her socially while I was her teacher, but that I would be willing to discuss it further once the semester had ended and she was no longer my student.  She gave a knowing smile and nodded, and that was that.  We had an unspoken agreement that we were going to date when the semester had ended.  A couple of weeks later, out of the blue, she tells me that she's married!  Her husband was in the military and had been away from home for several months.  She said he never called her, that she felt he no longer loved her, and that she was ready to move on from him.  She told me that she didn't love him the way she loved me, and I bought all of it. I honestly think that, at the time, those were her real feelings.  But, as I would later discover, her feelings, no matter how strong, are fleeting and in a constant state of flux.  I myself wanted so badly to believe what she was telling me, and when she began talking about leaving her husband to be with me, I foolishly let myself believe it.  

[Nuitari]

And so, at the end of the semester, we began dating.  The relationship was intense and passionate from the very beginning.  I was getting so swept away that I was no longer thinking clearly, but looking back, I should have known that there was something about this woman that was off.  I had no idea what BPD was at the time, but after doing some research, I see that all of the warning signs were there.  For one thing, she seems to not know what she wants out of life.  Sense first meeting her, she's changed career paths at least three time.  For some reason that I'll never understand, she has very low self-esteem.  She is one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen, but she was always talking about how unattractive she is.  She is very intelligent (she had a 3.94 GPA, and was in the top 2 percentile of the school!), but was always going on and on about how dumb she was and how she never would have passed physics without me.  She was always calling herself worthless and saying that she would never get anywhere in life.  She needed constant reassurance of her self-worth.  She kept making references to some past trauma that destroyed her trust in others, but would never talk about it with me.  She was always asking me if I loved her.  I honestly did, but seemed unable to convince her of it.  I felt like she was always analyzing every little thing I did or said in an attempt to determine if I loved her.  She would often accuse me of having an obsession with her and not truly loving her. I see now that she was the one with the problem, but at the time, I carried an incredible sense of guilt and anger at myself for always letting her down, for being incapable of conveying my feelings for her.  Soon after we began dating, it didn't take long to see that she had an abnormal preoccupation with sex.  It seemed that she could never get enough.  She also liked women and would always point out attractive women to me when we were in public.  She was always asking me random sex questions that would just come from nowhere.  During an otherwise normal conversation, I would get hit with questions like "have you ever had anal sex?" and "what do you think about when you masterbate?"  Looking back, I don't know why I couldn't see that this woman had problems, and it really makes me wonder what was wrong with me that I didn't walk away.  But at this point, she had become so important to me that I was willing to throw everything else away for her.  I even told myself that I would even give up my job if I had to.

While all of this is going on, her husband is pleading with her not to leave him.  Like me, he was delivered the huge burden of trying to convince her that he loves her.  He and I both are fighting for her, and she is caught in the middle.  She reached a point where she acted like she was going to have a nervous breakdown if I brought the situation up.  I couldn't even talk about it with her anymore.  Its like she completely withdrew into herself to avoid the conflict she created.  She was becoming a different person who didn't care about our relationship at all.  Her husband eventually returns home, and needless to say, he isn't happy.  He claims that I took advantage of his absence to pursue his wife, and he actually accuses me of brainwashing her into believing he doesn't love her!  She finally tells me that she can't leave him.  Part of me felt used, but another part of me was relieved that the whole mess was over.  But it was far from over.  She continued to call me every day, and even come to school and visit my office.  And the more she did this, the more angrier her husband became at me!  As far as he was concerned, I was the source of the problem.  He thinks I seduced and brainwashed his innocent wife.  At any rate, I didn't have it in me to tell her to leave me alone.  I felt like I would be abandoning her.  Even though she was no longer my student, she was still taking classes at the school, and would visit my office almost daily with the excuse that she needed my help with this and that.  She was always very appreciative of my help, and made me feel like I was her knight in shining armor, and I couldn't let her down, even though a part of me never wanted to see her again.  I was still devastated that I had no future with her, and all I wanted was closure, and she wasn't letting me have it.  But I was made to feel like her problems were more important than mine.  So for her sake, I would continue to see her at school and put on a fake smile like nothing was wrong, while inside I was dying.  I would lay away in bed at night thinking of her in bed with her husband.  I loved her, and just the thought of her sleeping with another man was torture.  When I finally brought it up with her one day she assured me that things were still bad between her and her husband, to the point where they don't even sleep in the same room.  Given that he had been home for a month, and given her constant sexual cravings, this came as a big surprise to me.  Yet she assured me that her feelings for me hadn't allowed her to sleep with him.  Not long after that, she casually asked me if I would like to have sex.  It shames me to say it, but I couldn't turn it down. Sex with her was incredible. But I found it very disturbing that she was able to betray her husband so easily and feel no remorse.  I asked her once if she felt bad about it, and she just laughed and said "hell no"!  I tried to tell myself it was because she didn't love him, and that she would never be capable of betraying me if I were in his shoes.  Then one day she slips up and tells me that her husband slept around while he was away, and was waiting three months to take an HIV test before they had sex.  Then it all became clear.  She was only getting sex from me because she couldn't get it from him.  I realized then that feelings had nothing to do with her motivations.  I knew I was being used, and still I couldn't turn down the sex.  There is just something irresistible about her.  It was like she was a drug and I became an addict.  She once initiated sex just as I was about to tell her that I didn't want to see her anymore.  Now, when I look back, I suspect that she was using sex as a way of keeping me close to her.  To make a long story short, I ended up losing my job, thanks in no small part to her husband calling the school.  She knew how much my job meant to me, and she used to tell me that she would leave him if he ever did that, that I would not have to suffer alone.  But like every other promise she ever made to me, it was empty.  Instead, I think she saw his actions as the proof of his love that she'd been looking for. 

Without my job, I could no longer afford the apartment I was living in, and had to move back home with my parents.  I lost everything.  I would have gladly given up my job for her, but in the end I lost them both.  She showed extreme remorse for the loss of my job, and blamed herself.  She even tried to convince the school that it was all her fault.  That is the most puzzling thing about her.  Its like she's two different people.  There is a caring, altruistic side to her, but there is also a selfish side that can't see past her own problems and feelings, and this is the side that always wins out.  It wasn't long before she was calling me again asking me to do this or that for her.  I would meet with her to help her study, and she even had me writing papers for her!  When I would refuse, she would accuse me of not caring about her.  She seemed completely oblivious that my life was ruined and could only see me as someone who was put on this earth to help her.  I was always the first person she called if she needed advice, or if she was upset about anything.  She hated being alone, and would call me almost everyday just to talk.  For some strange reason, it was as if she still needed me in her life.  Even after everything that had happened, I still found myself trying to prove to her that I loved her, and she had a way of making me feel like I was abandoning her if I didn't continue to spend time with her.  I began to feel dead inside.  I wanted my old life back. I was still haunted by everything that happened leading up to the loss of my job, and I had so many lingering questions.  One day, while on the phone with her, I got her to admit that she was already sleeping with her husband prior to my losing my job.  That's when I reached my breaking point.  I hung up on her, and resolved right then and there never to talk to her again.  That was almost six months ago. During the course of my typing this post, she's tried to call me, and while I do miss her greatly, I can't bring myself to talk to her.  If I continue along that course, I feel that I'll end up suicidal.

She had such an emotional hold over me that only now, after months of her absence from my life, do I finally see that I was manipulated and used, to the point where my life was ruined, only to be tossed aside like a piece of garbage.  And now I am angry.  I try to tell myself that only I am to blame, and I deserved what I got.  After all, I did make my own poor decisions.  But the truth is that all three of us (me, her, and the husband) are to blame, and I am angry that only I had to pay.  As far as her and her husband is concerned, this story is all ancient history.  They moved on, while I am still hurting.  Not only do I have to lay awake at night on my parent's cough knowing the woman I fell in love with is having sex with another man, but to a man who went out of his way to destroy my life.  Teaching is my passion, and I still do not know what impact my job loss will have on my future teaching career.  This world is a really messed up place when the two of them can create so much havoc in a persons life, and then ride off into the sunset together and never look back.  How can they be happy together after all of this?  Her husband doesn't have a clue what was going on.  He thinks I was pursuing his innocent wife while she was trying to go to school and get an education.  He has no idea about the affair, and every day I fight the urge to call him and tell him about it.  It's what they both deserve.  I feel that I cannot be at peace until I do it.  I think it is what I need for closure.  Its the only way I can put this mess behind me.  And yet, I cannot bring myself to do it.  In spite of everything, I still love her, and can't do anything to hurt her.  Whatever spell she put me under, it's still there.  Despite everything she's done, I would have her again if I could.  I wouldn't even think twice about it.  And yet I am so overcome with anger that I am always on the verge of calling the husband and telling him everything.  What do I do?  She messed up my brain so much that I don't experience normal emotions anymore.  One day I love her and have to fight the urge to call her, and the very next day I hate her and have to fight the urge to call him.  I do neither because I know these urges are temporary and the pendulum will swing the other way, leaving me regretting my actions.  But I am stuck with this inner conflict that I can't resolve, and it is tearing me apart.  I thought that the passage of time would make things easier, but all time has done is make my two emotional extremes more severe.  I feel like a coin that is standing on its edge.  Sooner or later I'll fall one way or the other.  At this point, I don't really care which way I fall, as long as I fall.  I can't take standing on my edge anymore.

[joeramabeme]

Nuitari   

Sorry to hear about what you are going through.  Relationships with BPD sufferers can be very tumultuous and traumatic.  It is good that you are here sharing your story about it all, I think you have made it to the right place. 

Many of us have had similar experiences with addictive r/s's and can feel deeply conflicted about how we feel.  Have you had other relationships with BPD sufferers? 

[Beacher]

Hi

Glad to see you here, you can share anything and never worry about being judged.

It's so hard being involved with BPD relationships. When they are not driving us crazy or ruining our lives they are the most incredible, loving and attractive human beings that we can't stop thinking about.

My advice to you,would be look for another job ASAP. It sounds like you are very talented and intelligent. You will build a new life and get involved with new colleagues and friends and will keep,your mind off of her. Also please keep sharing and posting. We feel,your,pain and have been through a lot of what you have shared.

xoxo

[Nuitari]

Thank you both for the warm welcome.  I am very glad to have found this place.  I've been reluctant to share this story because I feel that it really paints me in a very poor light.  I've done things I never thought I would do.  It is not like me to become involved with a student, and I am certainly not the type of man would sleep with a married woman.  And now I am left wondering what the hell was wrong with me.  I really have no excuse for my behavior other than to say that I got swept up in something that was bigger than I was.

Yes, this was my first relationship with a BPD sufferer, and I wasn't at all prepared for the craziness that goes along with it.  I wish I had never met her, because I feel like she's ruined me for normal relationships.  Despite all the inherent problems of a BPD relationship, there are also a lot of amazing things about it too.  Like Beacher said, when they are at their best, the relationship is wonderful.  I don't know if it was her BPD, or if we just naturally clicked, but I never felt that level of closeness with anyone, and I'm afraid I'll never find that again.  I think she and I could actually be good friends if I could learn to let go of my feelings for her.  The problems only came from trying to have a romantic relationship, but she was a great friend.  If I can learn to just be her friend, I think we could possibly have a platonic relationship far more meaningful than anything we could have as lovers.  But after everything that's happened, I think that ship has sailed.  I can never just be her friend.  I'll always want more.  And there is also a certain degree of anger and resentment that I feel toward her.  Some days I hate her.  She messed up my emotions so badly that I can't even figure out how I feel.  I would like to just move on and not think about her anymore, but its not that easy.  I can't do that until I have closure, and that's the real problem.  I never got closure.  There is something left undone that I need for closure.  I just can't put my finger on what it is.

[C.Stein]

And there is also a certain degree of anger and resentment that I feel toward her.  Some days I hate her.  She messed up my emotions so badly that I can't even figure out how I feel.  I would like to just move on and not think about her anymore, but its not that easy.  I can't do that until I have closure, and that's the real problem.  I never got closure.  There is something left undone that I need for closure.  I just can't put my finger on what it is.

Yes, I can completely understand where you are right now.  The conflict between love, anger, resentment, hate ... .it leaves you questioning everything.  I also never got any real closure ... .nor will I ever.  This is something I need to accept.  I need to provide my own closure as do many here ... .as do you.   If you wait for her to provide it you may be waiting a life time.

What I find the hardest to accept is the woman I truly believed was deeply in love with me could treat me at times with a fundamental lack of respect, love or caring.  The fact of the matter is she didn't love ME, she was never "in love" with ME!  I don't think she has ever been "in love" although she believed that she had finally found that type of "love" with me.  She simply doesn't understand what love is.  She does not love herself and by extension is incapable of truly loving others.

What she did fall in love with was the dream I shared with her and the needs I fulfilled for her.  This is not love at all which explains why she could do the things she has done.  Sadly the cycle will continue because she is simply incapable of facing her own demons. 

[Nuitari]

Yes, I can completely understand where you are right now.  The conflict between love, anger, resentment, hate ... .it leaves you questioning everything.  I also never got any real closure ... .nor will I ever.  This is something I need to accept.  I need to provide my own closure as do many here ... .as do you.   If you wait for her to provide it you may be waiting a life time.

What I find the hardest to accept is the woman I truly believed was deeply in love with me could treat me at times with a fundamental lack of respect, love or caring.  The fact of the matter is she didn't love ME, she was never "in love" with ME!  I don't think she has ever been "in love" although she believed that she had finally found that type of "love" with me.  She simply doesn't understand what love is.  She does not love herself and by extension is incapable of truly loving others.

That pretty much sums up my experience as well. She had a desperate need to be loved by others, but was completely incapable of returning that emotion.

I keep thinking about what I need to do for closure, and I always come back to the same conclusion.  What I really want and need to do is talk to the husband and come clean about everything.  I really want to understand his perspective in all of this.  Once he came back into the picture, I honestly tried to distance myself from her.  She would continue to call me and visit me at work, and this only made him angry at me.  I don't understand that mindset.  He saw me as the source of the problem and seemed incapable of viewing the situation any other way, and his inability or unwillingness to understand the reality of the situation cost me my job and wrecked my life.  I was unjustly made out to be the villain of the story and was severely punished for it.  I'm not a bad person, and yet I had to pay a price for someone's preconceived notions of me.  I never got my "day in court," so to speak.  I feel that a huge weight would be removed from my shoulders if he I and were at least on the same page.  I need to make him understand what was really going on, that the whole thing started with her pursuing me, that I never tried to persuade her to leave him, but rather, she persuaded me that she was going to do it.  But how can I just throw her under the bus like that?  Herein lies my conflict.  I feel that if I don't clear the air with him, this will slowly eat away at me a little each day.  It keeps me awake at night sometimes.  And yet my feelings for her prevents me from doing it.  When I take a step back and look at the big picture, she never seemed to give a damn about my feelings, so why do I try so hard to protect hers?

Did I get what I deserved?  Sometimes I can almost make myself believe that.  Anyone who fools around with a married woman should probably expect negative consequences to follow.  And yet I can't help but see it as very shallow on his part that he would make me pay for his marriage problems.  If he wanted to fix his marriage, the place to start was with her.  I wasn't the source of the problem, and I can't help but be angry that I had to pay for it while the two of them go on with their lives like the whole thing was an insignificant incident, a minor inconvenience.  This was truly a traumatic experience for me, and I'm still trying to find some kind closure over a year later.

I guess what I'm really looking for here is some perspective. Who is the bad guy?  I need to lay the blame somewhere.  Until I can do that, I'm stuck in a perpetual state of inner turmoil and indecisiveness.  I want more than anything to call the husband and clue him in on everything.  That's what I really need to do, but then I think about her and I can't.  Its a conflict I seem incapable of resolving.  I know its a tall order, but what I really need is someone to help me put this whole thing in perspective because can't seem to see it in a clear and objective way no matter how hard I try.

[C.Stein]

In a round about way I want to do the same with my ex that you want with her husband.  I want her to know what she did and what it did to me.  I want to dispel the lies she has told herself so she can avoid accountability.  I want this both for myself and for her.  She needs to accept the truth in order to make some positive change in her life.  For me, I do not like being accused/blamed for things I have not done or to have my actions/words twisted into some warped version of reality.  This is my ego ... everyone deals with this ego problem and pretty much everyone here has had their ego severely damaged by their exBPD.  

The question here is how do you repair your ego?  How important is it for you to be right or to be heard?  Why does it matter so much to you?

Yea, it doesn't seem at all fair when you are here destroyed and they have gone on like nothing ever happened.  It is damned frustrating not getting the chance to tell your side of the story in person.  I did tell mine via email but I will never know if any of them got read.  I suspect they probably did not.  Not the same as getting the opportunity to put a voice to my side of the story but it is all I have so I must accept it and let it go.  

This has been a difficult part of letting go for me.  The endless conversations I am having in my head with her, hearing her try to justify, excuse, blame me or anything to avoid taking responsibility for her decisions and actions.  Is this a desire to "lay blame"?  I don't necessarily think that is it but rather a desire for equability and fairness.  I am more than willing, and have, accepted responsibility for the things I did that I regret.  I have "laid the blame" where it belongs in my own mind and this is all that is really necessary.

As with my ex, I could attempt to get her to see the truth of what happened and she might actually see it ... .but for how long?  Eventually she will go back to the lies she has told herself because that is what she needs to do.  She simply cannot accept responsibility for what she did because it makes her look like a bad person and there is too much shame and guilt involved.   This is much like your ex's husband who will simply not accept she chased you and even if he does you accepted her advances so in his mind it likely doesn't matter at all who chased who.  You can "lay the blame" all you want with him and unless he accepts your blame laying unequivocally you will be in the same spot as you are now except with the guilt of knowing the hell that might rain down on your ex from him.  

So what can you really do here?  Her husband is clearly "brainwashed" by her.  Given this. it is highly unlikely he is going to believe a single thing you say and it might even provoke him to lash out at you again.  In the end the only person you should be concerned with is yourself.  You know what happened, who is to blame for what, it does not matter what he thinks.  He will never see you as an innocent and trying to convince him of that is a pointless exercise and will not give you the closure you seek.  Accept responsibility for the part you played, the decisions you made and your actions ... .nothing more.

In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter what one person you don't even know thinks about you ... .it really doesn't.

The only absolution you are going to get here is that which you give yourself.

[Nuitari]

C.Stein,

While I can see the wisdom of your words, and even agree with them, they do little to diminish my overwhelming desire to have words with the husband.  I don't pretend to fully understand why, but for whatever reason, its what I need to do to put this whole thing behind me.  Its not about him, but about me.  Regardless of whether he believes me or not, I would have said my peace, and that's what I need.  I fully realize that this will most likely cause him to further lash out at me (especially if I tell him about the affair), but I don't even care anymore. There is nothing he can do that will diminish the satisfaction I would get from coming clean about it all.  

The only thing preventing me from picking up my phone and calling him is her.  Like your ex, she doesn't live in reality and can't see the damage she's caused.  She is like a small child in a woman's body and doesn't have the emotional maturity to understand my reasons for wanting to call her husband (hell, I don't fully understand my reasons for wanting to call him, so how can I expect her to).  It will only make her hate me, and even though we no longer talk, that still matters to me.  :)espite the hatred that I sometimes feel toward her, the idea of her hating me is unbearable. I'm just so sick of this mental roller-coaster ride of going back and forth in my head about how I feel, who exactly I'm angry with, and what to do about it. 

[C.Stein]

I'm just so sick of this mental roller-coaster ride of going back and forth in my head about how I feel, who exactly I'm angry with, and what to do about it. 

At this point I think once you realize the mental roller coaster you are riding is one constructed by you, then and only then will you be able to get off the ride.

[Nuitari]

There are some days when I am so angry that I just want revenge.  I actually have proof of the affair (and some pretty strong evidence that she initiated the relationship) that the husband will have a hard time waving away with his usual self-denial.  I have the power to destroy their lives the way they destroyed mine.  So why haven't I done it?  I don't think anyone could blame me under the circumstances.  They don't harbor any remorse for ruining my life, so why do I harbor so much guilt over the idea of ruining theirs?  Why do I feel the need to be the bigger person?  Now that I understand BPD, I feel that I finally understand her (something I once thought impossible).  Now I need to work on understanding myself.  I've spent over a year fantasizing about revealing everything to the husband. I can't even think about it without smiling.  Its something I clearly want to do, so why can't I?  What is stopping me? I keep "deciding" that I'll do it once I can psych myself up for it, but that day never comes.  All I know is that I have to do something to lose my anger.  I wake up angry every morning.  I go to sleep angry every night, when I'm capable of sleeping that is.  This has been going on for a year, and I know it isn't good for me, neither physically nor mentally.  I feel like I need to call him and get it over with already, but for some reason I'm incapable of it.

[Sunfl0wer]

I don't pretend to fully understand why, but for whatever reason, its what I need to do to put this whole thing behind me.

How could you phrase this sentence so that it is accurate?

You certainly will not at all die if you do not disclose to the H.

We all tell ourselves stories to help us cope with difficult situations, this is understandable and how most of us process events.

H made a choice to portray his W as a victim of you, for whatever reason.  That is the story he decided upon.  (He could have chose to hold her, an adult, accountable for her own actions.  Assuming she was an adult?  Denial is a powerful coping strategy.  Just because you present facts, does not mean he will be ready and able to receive them and leave his state of denial.  Actually, you may come off as someone with poor motive to share this, thus appearing more the villain... .possibly.)

You do not have to tell yourself the story that your well being is in anyway dependent on what you do or do not disclose to another person, however, it seems as though you have talked yourself into this story and made a quite convincing argument to yourself of it.

Sure, you probably would do good to do something about your anger.

How are you doing with the Lessons and stages of detachment?

(I wish I could quickly find the link to the words about our anger in the lessons.)

It is common that many of us struggle with feeling our feelings of pain, and therefore can get stuck in focusing on the emotion anger, and even get stuck focusing our anger on our ex, or in your case, your ex's H.

Do you think it is possible that you have more pain that you are struggle to face vs repress?

Finding closure is all about us and facing our loss and pain and healing.

While you may obtain a sense of relief of some feelings if you disclose... .

Actual growth and healing and closure comes when we learn to direct our care and attention to ourselves.  Care for ourself that was hurt, and listening to our voice and feelings surrounding the aspects of processing the relationship.

If you take steps to contact ex, you are turning your care and attention to H and her instead of where it belongs, to you. This is simply a continuation of what you did while in the relationship, while you allowed the loss of your job and such and did not attend to self care. This was not an act of self love then and would not be an act of self love/care now.  I promise you, you certainly do not need this.  It is drama making and more likely a distraction from where your focus can benefit you.

So do you really think her and H hold the truth of your identity?  Does it matter what they think of you?

I hope you come to a greater understanding and place of greater self love/self importance as time passes... .and also a place of peace and contentment.

[C.Stein]

Its something I clearly want to do, so why can't I?  What is stopping me?

You find yourself hesitating because you know you are better than this and chances are you will feel tremendous guilt and remorse if you act on your emotions.

[Nuitari]

Sunfl0wer and C.Stein,

Thank you both for your replies.  

I've always been a very analytical guy, and I think this is why I'm having such a difficult time processing all of this, and is also the source of my anger.  The husband simply did not have the facts/information needed to come to the conclusions that he did.  I acknowledge my mistakes and paid the price for them.  I can own up to everything I've done.  I'm capable of living in reality.  He isn't.  It was very childish of him to invent so many falsehoods about a person he doesn't even know and then pretend they're reality just because its convenient.  Its probably too much to go into, but he somehow convinced himself of some pretty outrageous things about me.  I didn't just lose my job, but my reputation was ruined too, and I fear this is going to have some serious repercussions in the future.  The act of lying to oneself has always seemed like a very perverse thing to me.  We as humans should strive to be better than that.  Not only did he indulge in it, but I'm left feeling like I had to pay a price for his emotional weaknesses.

The really tragic part about all of this for me is that, at one time, before losing my job, I actually considered calling him and politely asking him to tell his wife to leave me alone, sense I was clearly ineffective at it.  But, as is the case now, I couldn't bring myself to do it without somehow feeling like I'm hurting her.  But looking back, I can't help but regret not doing this.

You find yourself hesitating because you know you are better than this and chances are you will feel tremendous guilt and remorse if you act on your emotions.

That is true.  And yet the husband is allowed to destroy someone's life without feeling the slightest tinge of guilt or remorse.  This is what is so frustrating.  I'm the victim of the story.  Not only did my life get destroyed, but I'm the one left with the burden of guilt and having to worry about their feelings.  He can act on his emotions and ruin a life without guilt, but I do the same I'm a villain. It always seems like different rules apply to me than for others.

[Sunfl0wer]

Why do you think you are responsible for this guy's sense of morality?

What drives you to take on such a role?

[lingering]

Who is the bad guy?  No one, there are a bunch of broken people trying to cope with this terrible drama.  The healing is in the telling, it is true but I think telling a therapist and working through all of those feelings would serve you so much better than trying to get the broken husband of the broken woman you loved to understand.  It is just not going to happen.  It is going to create drama.  Gestalt therapy has a great exercise where you talk to the "chair" representing the person you need to say all those words to.  Stay far away from the drama queen and her king.  Bless you!

[C.Stein]

I've always been a very analytical guy, and I think this is why I'm having such a difficult time processing all of this, and is also the source of my anger.

Let us be analytical then and examine some of your feelings here.  Based on what you said in another thread there is a part of you that wants her marriage to fail and for you to be recycled (see bold below).

When my ex got back with her husband, she wanted to remain friends, but this didn't work because it was too painful for me.  I've been on NC with her for months now, and yet I constantly find myself questioning this decision.  I tell myself that, given all of her problems, that marriage is going to self-destruct at some point, and at least if I'm still in her life when happens I'll have a chance to be with her again.  But then I ask myself why I even want that, given the problems I know she has.  If her marriage does self-destruct one day, why do I think our relationship would fare any better?  Its very confusing.  I can no longer deny that she is a deeply troubled person who is incapable of playing any other role in my life than a destructive one, and yet I've never felt more closer to anyone, and I'm afraid I'll never find that with anyone else.

Do you think that these feelings may be the "invisible" source of your anger, at least in part, and is driving your anger and desire to even the score?

[Nuitari]

Good question. I think my anger is the result of reality finally setting in. Sense going NC with her, my head is finally clearing, and I can see the degree to which I was manipulated and toyed with, and I can clearly see just how senseless and tragic the loss of my job was.  There were several times when I straight up told her that I could not see her or talk to her anymore, that it was too painful.  She always seemed very understanding and would agree to stay away, and I felt as if a huge weight were lifted from my shoulders!  A couple of weeks would go by before she would show up at work again wanting to cry on my shoulder over some personal crises of hers, and I would realize in these moments just how little my own inner turmoil meant to her.  Inside, all I wanted to do was to scream at her and tell her to the leave me alone and let me move on with my life. But that was easier said than done, especially when she was in tears.  Meanwhile the husband is leaving messages on my machine telling me that I better leave his wife alone!  Can you believe that?  The whole situation is so ridiculous its almost comical, except that it ruined my life.  I can now look back at these events with a sense of clarity that I didn't have before, and now I just want some kind of justice and accountability.

I'm finding that just the act of discussing this here is leading to some insights.  As I typed the above paragraph, it occurred to me that what I really need (and maybe my real reason for wanting to talk to the husband) is understanding.  That is the best therapy for me, I think.  For example, just learning that my ex has a personality disorder, just learning about BPD and being able to give a name to her problem has helped me considerably.  I need understanding.  The more I can fill in the gaps in my understanding, the better I'll feel. And what I really yearn for is an understanding of the husband's mentality and actions.  I know for a fact that she's put him through hell. Time after time, she promised him that she would stop calling me and visiting me at work, and time after time, he would see the phone bills and learn that she had lied to him.  I never called her, by the way.  She always called me, and he knew it.  And yet his anger was directed at me.  He deemed it appropriate that I pay the price for her bad behavior, and given that my life got ruined, I think I'm at least entitled to ask why.  I know I've been talking a lot about anger, but I think my reasons for wanting to contact him go beyond anger.  Maybe the anger is really due to my own need for understanding and not getting it.  Maybe understanding is what I need for closure.

[C.Stein]

The more I can fill in the gaps in my understanding, the better I'll feel.

This is good man.  Knowledge and understanding do bring clarity.  Knowing and understanding what drives our own emotions also brings clarity.

And what I really yearn for is an understanding of the husband's mentality and actions.

Knowing what she has done to you, how she has manipulated you, pushed you to do things you were not comfortable doing, etc ... .what else is to understand here?  All you need to do is put yourself in his shoes.  He is just as susceptible to her disorder, probably more, than you are. 

[Nuitari]

I've always been a very analytical guy, and I think this is why I'm having such a difficult time processing all of this, and is also the source of my anger.

Let us be analytical then and examine some of your feelings here.  Based on what you said in another thread there is a part of you that wants her marriage to fail and for you to be recycled (see bold below).

When my ex got back with her husband, she wanted to remain friends, but this didn't work because it was too painful for me.  I've been on NC with her for months now, and yet I constantly find myself questioning this decision.  I tell myself that, given all of her problems, that marriage is going to self-destruct at some point, and at least if I'm still in her life when happens I'll have a chance to be with her again.  But then I ask myself why I even want that, given the problems I know she has.  If her marriage does self-destruct one day, why do I think our relationship would fare any better?  Its very confusing.  I can no longer deny that she is a deeply troubled person who is incapable of playing any other role in my life than a destructive one, and yet I've never felt more closer to anyone, and I'm afraid I'll never find that with anyone else.

Do you think that these feelings may be the "invisible" source of your anger, at least in part, and is driving your anger and desire to even the score?

I've been thinking a lot about this question, and I think its actually the other way around.  The more I think about it, the more clear it becomes to me that my desire to be recycled is a big part of the reason why I haven't called the husband.  She'd be so furious at me that she'd probably never speak to me again.  Any chance of reuniting with her will be gone forever.  I'll have burned that bridge completely.  But in a weird way, this is exactly what I need to be free.  I've been on NC for months now, but it somehow doesn't feel like enough.  The idea of calling the husband is appealing because, not only am I "getting even," but I'm permanently severing all ties with her forever, removing  any possibility of her finding her way back into my life.  I want and need that, and yet ironically it is the very reason why I can't bring myself to call the husband.  Its like there are two of me that want two different things, and I can't find a way to get those two halves of me to agree.

[Nuitari]

Knowing what she has done to you, how she has manipulated you, pushed you to do things you were not comfortable doing, etc ... .what else is to understand here?  All you need to do is put yourself in his shoes.  He is just as susceptible to her disorder, probably more, than you are.  

Maybe.  I'm certainly not going to get closure with her, so I guess in a weird way I'm trying to get closure through the husband?  I'll never know the extent he played in me losing my job.  After being promoted, I was on a two-year probationary period and during this time the school had the right to end my employment at any time, so I was not allowed an appeal or a chance to tell my side of the story.  Who knows what he told the school.  All I know is that no one there, colleagues that I've known for years, will not even speak to me.  I sometimes get the feeling that even my own family, who have been very supportive throughout the whole thing, doesn't really understand.  I sometimes feel like the whole world has typecast me into playing a role that isn't me, and no one wants to listen to what I have to say.  Everyone thinks I was chasing this guy's wife, and I was punished for it.  But I was honestly trying to do the right thing, and I just need some kind of acknowledgment of it.  I just need someone to understand.  The husband actually called me "manipulative" and accused me of trying to ruin his life!  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Some days I am so angry that I just want to call him to get revenge.  Other days, I just want him to understand.  Even if he chooses not to, at least I've finally got to voice my side of things, and just doing that would help me tremendously.  I just know that I have to do something.  I just haven't decided what it is yet.  Going NC with her has helped me a lot.  It was the smartest thing I've done sense meeting her.  But it isn't enough.  Something still seems... .unfinished.  

[C.Stein]

The husband actually called me "manipulative" and accused me of trying to ruin his life!  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Some days I am so angry that I just want to call him to get revenge.  Other days, I just want him to understand.  Even if he chooses not to, at least I've finally got to voice my side of things, and just doing that would help me tremendously.  I just know that I have to do something.  I just haven't decided what it is yet.  Going NC with her has helped me a lot.  It was the smartest thing I've done sense meeting her.  But it isn't enough.  Something still seems... .unfinished.  

Focus on the bold?  Is there some other more healthy way to voice your side of things?   Someone who will actually listen to your story and be able to empathize with your feelings?

[Beacher]

I think the longer you are NC, the urge to contact the husband will diminish.

Try writing a letter that you will never send. Although you have done a great job sharing here and unloading the huge burden on your shoulders, composing something directly to him may help. I'm so sorry you are going through this, I have also done things that I never thought I would do and am sometimes mortified when I look back at my actions. But they are all lessons to be learned in life and we cannot beat ourselves up over them.

Feel better soon ❤️

[Nuitari]

The husband actually called me "manipulative" and accused me of trying to ruin his life!  Nothing could be further from the truth.  Some days I am so angry that I just want to call him to get revenge.  Other days, I just want him to understand.  Even if he chooses not to, at least I've finally got to voice my side of things, and just doing that would help me tremendously.  I just know that I have to do something.  I just haven't decided what it is yet.  Going NC with her has helped me a lot.  It was the smartest thing I've done sense meeting her.  But it isn't enough.  Something still seems... .unfinished.  

Focus on the bold?  Is there some other more healthy way to voice your side of things?   Someone who will actually listen to your story and be able to empathize with your feelings?

Well, coming here is definitely helping me. For a while, I wondered if my contradictory feelings and actions were a sign that I was going crazy. I honestly thought something was wrong with me. But after finding this place, I am seeing others who are voicing my own thoughts and feelings, and I realize now that I'm not alone.  

I don't think my ex ever truly understood what she's put me through.  This is in part due to the fact that the gravity of it didn't hit home for me until after I went NC.  Contact with her kept me in a "brainwashed" state.  I am now seeing things with so much clarity, and am only now feeling things that I should have felt long ago.  I want to make her aware of what she's done to me.  I sometimes think about sending her (and maybe the husband too) an email just to get it all off my chest.  Talking to others makes my situation tolerable, but I can't put it behind me until I share my thoughts with the two people who caused me so much pain.  

[C.Stein]

I don't think my ex ever truly understood what she's put me through.  This is in part due to the fact that the gravity of it didn't hit home for me until after I went NC.  Contact with her kept me in a "brainwashed" state.  I am now seeing things with so much clarity, and am only now feeling things that I should have felt long ago.  I want to make her aware of what she's done to me.  I sometimes think about sending her (and maybe the husband too) an email just to get it all off my chest.  Talking to others makes my situation tolerable, but I can't put it behind me until I share my thoughts with the two people who caused me so much pain.  

I also don't believe my ex even begins to understand, or even knows, how her behavior and actions have impacted me both during and after the throw away.  More importantly, she will never truly understand even if I had the opportunity to talk to her about it. 

It took me many months after being thrown away to even begin to come out of the FOG.  The more the FOG clears the more clarity I have.  I do want to hold her responsible for her part, for what she did because I am relatively certain she has blamed me for everything.  The thing is, it really doesn't matter what I say to her ... .it never did.  She might see my side of things but eventually she will revert back to believing what she needs to believe for her own emotional survival, be it true or not.

Contacting either your ex, her husband or both I feel is going to open a pretty big can of worms.  Do you really want to get into a retaliatory back and forth with these people?  If that were to occur how do you see this furthering your healing?

[Nuitari]

I think the longer you are NC, the urge to contact the husband will diminish.

I hope you are right. So far though, NC has only intensified my feelings and anger, because only now am I beginning to see things clearly.  I am only just waking up to the reality that I've been used and manipulated by someone I loved.

Try writing a letter that you will never send. Although you have done a great job sharing here and unloading the huge burden on your shoulders, composing something directly to him may help.

Its funny you should mention that.  I've actually already been "mentally" writing him a letter. I haven't gone as far as typing it out yet.  I heard it helps to do that, but honestly, I can't see how this will benefit me with the knowledge that he'll never see it.  I know myself well enough to know that typing that letter will only intensify my desire to voice its contents to him, something I'm not yet prepared to do.  My feelings and what I want are so transient right now that I don't dare act on any of them for fear of regretting it later.  

I've always been a very introverted person, and that's only made these events even more tragic and painful for me.  I've always been afraid to let someone close, and when I finally did, my entire world got destroyed.  The wounds are still too fresh, but I feel that this experience has somehow damaged me in ways that I do not yet understand.  I think its going to be very difficult for me to trust anyone again.  I'm trying my best to sort through all of the chaos and emotional turmoil that is swirling around in my head, but deep down, I'm always left with the feeling that I won't be ok until I can confront those responsible.

[Nuitari]

Contacting either your ex, her husband or both I feel is going to open a pretty big can of worms.  :)o you really want to get into a retaliatory back and forth with these people?  If that were to occur how do you see this furthering your healing?

I honestly don't know.  I can't shake the feeling that, whatever the consequences, it will somehow lessen the weight on my shoulders to share my thoughts with them, to remind them that I am a human being with feelings.  Its a compulsion that I suppress every day. I hesitate because, for whatever reason, part of me still cares about her.  I don't know how my actions will affect her, and whether the guilt I'll feel is a price worth paying for whatever "therapy" I'll get out of the act.  I'm only hoping that the FOG will continue to clear to a point where the "right" thing to do becomes obvious.

It just sucks to be the emotionally/morally responsible one.  Both of them got to act on their feelings and impulses, ruin someone's life, and move on with theirs without any remorse.  But if I do something to inconvenience their lives, I'm left feeling like the bad guy.  It doesn't seem fair.

[WoundedBibi]

Nuitari, I understand where you come from. I also feel having been in a relationship with a BPD has changed my life. I think ruined is too strong a word even though I'm not sure if I will be able to do my job again. I've learned from it. I've learned about me and how strong my desire is to be loved. So strong I do stupid things and make stupid decisions the moment someone appears to love me. I've learned I'm not ready for real love until I work on my past wounds. The next guy would be BPD or NPD again. For now, work is a contaminated space where I will feel very unsafe when I go back. I have lost friendships with colleagues over this. I have lost my dignity. How on earth will I ever be able to tell one of my employees there they should do the right thing, to have integrity?  

I have struggled for months about having my say, getting it of my chest. Some days still do.

But from the times I tried this to salvage the relationship at the end, I have learned never to do this again. It blew up in my face. BPDs do not want to be confronted with the fact things and they were not perfect. The retaliation was horific. So, think about it more before you do anything. Big chance of a BIG can of worms and events that you will not be able to control. And isn't what you really want for him to say " Wow... .I didn't know that man... So sorry I got you fired. I didn't realise it was her and not you... "? What are the chances really of that happening? Cause either he is as enmeshed as you were/are or he has BPD issues too (judging by what you described). I *so* get your pain and your need to do this, but IMO it will never get you what you are looking for. I've learned this need I feel does not need to be followed up on. I'm not going to die if I don't. It's an overwhelming feeling, I know. But I now see it as the same overwhelming feeling someone with OCD has to wash their hands 30 times or flip the light switch 45 times. We feel relieved after we've given in to the feeling and do whatever we feel NEED to do. It has something to do with relieving anxiety.

[WoundedBibi]

I would write things down if I were you. I have written and not sent a LOT. It helps in clearing things up. In your mind you just keep going round in circels. So that's what the writing is good for  getting out of the FOG. Just don't send anything would be my advice. It will not get you what you want, apart from a shortlived relief, and might get you in more of a pickle than you are already in.

[Nuitari]

And isn't what you really want for him to say " Wow... .I didn't know that man... So sorry I got you fired. I didn't realise it was her and not you... "?

That would be nice but, honestly, I don't care what he says or thinks, just as long as he hears me.  That's what I need, just to be heard.  

I *so* get your pain and your need to do this, but IMO it will never get you what you are looking for. I've learned this need I feel does not need to be followed up on. I'm not going to die if I don't. It's an overwhelming feeling, I know. But I now see it as the same overwhelming feeling someone with OCD has to wash their hands 30 times or flip the light switch 45 times. We feel relieved after we've given in to the feeling and do whatever we feel NEED to do. It has something to do with relieving anxiety.

Yes!  You get it!  This is exactly what I'm experiencing.  It is an intrusive thought that is always there 24/7.  Its becoming an obsession. I'm actually very proud of myself that I haven't done it yet, but its been a year and a half, and this overwhelming need hasn't diminished.  In fact, sense going NC with her, its actually intensified.  I've spent over a year hanging by a thin thread, and I'm afraid that all its going to take is one moment of weakness.  I honestly don't even know what is keeping me from doing it.  I don't care about consequences. Maybe I should, but I could care less what can of worms this might open.  I just doesn't matter. My hesitancy is somehow related to her.  I know that she'll never speak to me again if I did it.  The act of calling her husband will completely destroy any possibility of her being in my life again. Sometimes I think that is the reason I don't call him, and yet it is also the reason why the idea of calling him is so appealing.  The NC just isn't enough.  She still has a hold on me that I need to sever.  Hope that I might one day be with her again was once the thing that kept me going. Now its become an anchor that's weighing me down, something I want to extinguish forever, and yet part of me can't find the strength to do it.

I would write things down if I were you. I have written and not sent a LOT. It helps in clearing things up. In your mind you just keep going round in circels. So that's what the writing is good for  cool getting out of the FOG. Just don't send anything would be my advice. It will not get you what you want, apart from a shortlived relief, and might get you in more of a pickle than you are already in.

I think I will write letters both to her and the husband. I think you right that it will help clear things up in my own mind.  I can't promise I won't send them, though.  If not now, then perhaps later in life.  No matter how much reflection I do, I keep coming back to the same conclusion over and over, that I'll never put this behind me until I can speak my mind.  That urge is too overwhelming.  :)eep down I know that I'll eventually contact one or both of them someday.  Its just a question of when.