Gaslighting? (Projection & Distortion)

[Tylerwd]

I had a hard time myself a few years back and got into consuming which helped tremendously. I'm very open about my issues. When I met my wife I told her everything. We fell very fast in love and I felt immediately connected and engaged. I did notice that she shut down when conflict arouse and almost would blame me. The problem was I felt like I was wrong- I still had a lot of my own work. And now I feel really confused. I know I can't always be wrong and I changed and worked so hard in this relationship to become a better more grounded partner. I take things less personally. I ask questions rather then responding. I validate her feelings. I don't ask for things or for her to change. But I feel like when I do being something up she's yelling and telling me it's crazy so quickly no matter how calm I stay. I find myself doubting reality. Like maybe I'm too sensitive or needy. The thing is I know I could never ask her to get help, because in therapy she only talks about me. She references fights from over a year ago even when I changed behaviors successfully... .I just feel like I'm Drowning. Like I can't do anything right. I either offer advice which makes her feel controlled or I'm too apathetic  because I didn't offer advice.

She uses terms like she's walking on eggshells around me- but I feel like I am generally happy and let things go. I feel like she thinks I'm the BP one and she's fine. I feel powerless.

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[Turkish]

Has she actually called you a Borderline Personality? How did BPD enter the conversation?

[JH68]

My wife tells me she has to "walk on eggshells" around me too.  When a disagreement between me and my BPDw gets too intense, I've gotten into the habit of detaching by physically removing myself.  I try to calmly explain, "I love you but I don't like the argument we're having.  I'm going to leave and we will talk when things calm down."  She tells me that she's "walking on eggshells" so I won't walk away from her when there's a conflict.

At first this seemed silly.  I "walk on eggshells" to avoid a conflict.  She "walks on eggshells" so I will stay in the conflict.  However, there's a part of it that makes sense.  I have a physically abusive dad.  I've been conditioned from birth to avoid conflict and try to keep people around me calm.  One of the hardest things for me to tolerate is conflict especially when it gets intense and emotional. So, I walk on egg shells to avoid conflict.  My BPDw has abandonment issues from her childhood.  One of the hardest things for her to tolerate is abandonment.  So, she feels like she has to walk on eggshells to avoid abandonment when we have a conflict.

The fact that my wife feels like she's walking on egg shells doesn't mean she thinks I have BPD.  It means that she's trying too hard to avoid triggering a behavior from me that she has difficulty tolerating.  I've decided to work harder to detach from arguments without trigger her abandonment issues by not walking away from her.  I reserve the right to walk away when things get too intense.  Taking care of myself is too important.  Sacrificing my sanity so she won't feel abandoned is not an option.  However, I try to avoid walking away from her if possible.

Perhaps, you can ask your wife why she feels like she has to walk on eggshells.

[Modron]

My experience is kind of like JH68, now, since I've learn how to set better boundaries.

In the beginning my BPDW did try to gaslight me. She told me she had to walk on eggshells. She said I was like her "abusive", drug addict exhusband. Then, she let it slip that she was the one who started the physical fights and he was just defending himself. Until that point I was really letting her tear me down by accepting the terrible things she was saying that she had to watch out because I would harm her. I just had to stop, because I'm the one who keeps the roof over our heads and food on the table. If I had continued to let her tear me down I wouldn't have been able to get out of bed and go to work in the morning.

Then I started setting boundaries like we could talk about stuff civilly, but the yelling, blaming, and FOG had to stop.  One day she blurted out "But then, I have to think about what I say!" Sadly, that was a revelation. But, I think that's why she feels she's walking on eggshells. She has to take responsibility for what she says and the consequences, so she has to think first.

[Modron]

Tylerwd, something else I thought of after rereading your post. My BPDW's exhusband and I have both had a lot of therapy. He had gotten himself off of drugs before marrying her. I had a BPD Mom and pretty messed up family of origin. I had done A LOT of work in therapy to get myself better. My wife's influence on her husband resulted in a downward spiral back into drugs for him. They lost everything including his job and their house and bankruptcy. She and I had known one another as teens, but she couldn't handle being in same same sex relationship at the time. So, years later after all turmoil in her life she looked me up, because she said she knew I was someone who really loved her. I fell back into the relationship really fast. I didn't put on the brakes, even though I knew to. I also believed a bunch of what she said about her relationship with her husband, that he was the bad guy. I was pretty smug in my own mind about being the white knight. I ignored some red flags, like lying about how much she was drinking. She would call in the evening well on the way to being drunk, but I passed it off as stress from her divorce. Then we got married. She stopped working for three months. Then the big reveal about her being the abuser in her first marriage. I had told her about two previous relationships I'd had with alcoholics, and that it was a life I refused to live. She tested me, once, by running to a bar. She figured out I was serious. But, now she has a food addiction, rather than an alcohol addiction. And her unrealistic expectations that I was an endless source of money. Her thoughts about money are bizarre: if she has a hundred dollars she can spend $100 on A. And $100 on B. And $100 on C. And $100 on D. This results in a conversation that the hundred dollars only spends one time. She doesn't have $400. She can spend one hundred dollars on A or B or C or D, but she can't have all of them. We've had that conversation repeatedly. I, finally, saw through the stories of her first marriage and that the exhusband wasn't the source of ALL the problems. In fact, I'd bet that a guy with a history of drug abuse who was trying to stay clean was never going to be able to keep it together in that relationship.

Then, I realized that by being with her I was risking everything: home, job, sanity. I told her I wasn't going to lose everything because of her, and she got scared and the FOG and gaslighting increased. There were times when she had flights of fantasy about what our life should be like, usually, involving huge expenditures of money, all the things I needed to do to complete her fantasy without any regard for the fact I had to, actually, go to work to make the money she wanted to do this stuff. If I told her it wasn't possible to do the things she wanted I was an abuser. No matter how much I explained. No matter if we looked at the bank accounts. (She started refusing to keep a budget.) She kept mentally fabricating a life that just couldn't happen, and then got ugly with me if told her so. After years of therapy and lots of understanding about staying mentally aware, thinking instead of reacting, fighting anxiety and depression I started to fall apart. There were times I couldn't form a sentence or complete a thought. Everything was confusing. ... .Things about which I'm never confused were confusing.

I, finally, decided it wasn't worth being married to her if I was going to lose myself. After working so hard to make myself a better person, it just wasn't going to happen. So, we went through another period were she was semi-employed and feeling grand about sitting around indulging her food addiction. I decided it was time for me to move on. She wanted to know what that meant. I told her I needed to be sure I wasn't getting into things that were bad for me. That I needed to take care of myself. In my mind I knew that if I needed to leave her I'd have to find a way to make the break up gradual. There was no way I would be able to handle drama after already being torn down so much. The next time we started to fight I told her I would no longer give in to the fear and obligation she tried to dump on me. The next couple of times she acted like she was going to pack a bag and run away, I overcame my fear and backed off of getting sucked in to begging her to stay. I told her I hoped we could work things out, but I didn't argue and I didn't demean myself by begging her to stay, or by blaming myself. The last time she acted like she was going to run away I got myself out of the situation, except to ask if she was okay, and I was perfectly content to let her go if she decided to leave. She must have sensed it, because she kept herself together, calmed down, and stayed home.

She is capable of working, and in fact, is much better when she works. She now has two jobs. Actually, it seems to be the best kind of validation for her. When I try validating she calls it my "therapy talk" and tells me just to say what I think. Working gives her more financial independence which is good for her. She spends money as fast as she gets it which will last until the student loans she "took out for her son", but really was using for fun money, start coming due. I expect the stress around the house will result in more conflict. But, the decision I made to respect myself and what I have accomplished, including the years of therapy to heal from my past and create a better me, still comes first.

I guess rereading your post what you said about working on yourself and trying to be a good partner and how confusing the relationship is really resonated with me. My family of origin was miserable; we hurt one another deeply, and we were hurting deeply. I knew that there was a lot of work I needed to do to be the good person I wanted to be. And I did it. I can't let all that hard work be for nothing. I guess it helps me reinforce for myself that I don't have to live with the misery

I'm truly sorry for the overwhelm you are feeling. I've been coming to BPD family off and on for awhile. It has helped me. You're not alone here.

[naguma]

My exBPD never apologized (well she did 1 time about 7 years in... .still remember it).

This is how they make you think it's all your fault.

For the first three years of our relationship she had me convinced I taught her to yell. Every time we had an argument, I would apologize and say I am sorry for teaching you to yell.

Three years in, she was upstairs at her mothers house yelling and her sister and I were downstairs listening. I said sorry to her sister about teaching my ex to yell. Her sister said this was normal for them and had been since my ex was 12, she was surprised it hadn't turned into throwing things - as that was also normal.

Instead of creating conflict, I kept this information to myself and continued to let her blame me for arguments (thankfully with my sanity in tact as the truth had come out).

The end of our relationship was brought on by her trying to kill me one night during an episode. Asked for an apology and she said it was my fault (I yelled a single time - something I normally avoided with her, which brought on an hour of attacks). At this point I sat her down and said we have issues in our relationship, I will be happy to take responsibility for half of them - but we need to work together. She refused and refused couples therapy, so that was the end of our relationship.

After breaking up, she wanted to know why I broke it off. I said it was because I refuse to take all the blame. She responded that it then makes it all my fault things failed.

So are you crazy? maybe... .Otherwise why would I or anyone else stay in a relationship with someone that creates such a crazy environment (and still crave that environment after being freed from it).

[Tylerwd]

Has she actually called you a Borderline Personality? How did BPD enter the conversation?

Yes. And I think when incredibly stressed out I've had moments in my last of exhibiting traits. The thing is- I care, accept it and then work so hard to shift those patterns. I feel like a tremendously better person over the last year.

She however has told me she has learned nothing being with me. I'm the worst. Literally one minute she's saying "will you always be around to care for me and look out for me?" And the next moment telling screaming Into a pillow calling me all names under the sun, and saying I'm bad. That she is being abused and therefore all her responses the yelling and name calling and degrading (I don't do those things) are a normal response to a person being abused. And that's the thing... .I believed her. Now I'm trying to detach and tell myself I'm not an abusive monster, again I may be bossy or too controlling by asking her to help with a lot of things around d the house when she wants to relax but that it doesn't warrant her exploding slamming everything screaming for hours telling me I'm the worst. She regrets everything. Because I wanted her to do laundry while I cook dinner... .

[Tylerwd]

She has told me I taught her to yell too... .That she never fought like this before. That she wasn't this angry before. That she has wasted her life on me. She's 30 and we were together for a year and a half. Even if she didn't freak out like this before its only because she only self admittedly has dating people she didn't love or respect.

My exBPD never apologized (well she did 1 time about 7 years in... .still remember it).

This is how they make you think it's all your fault.

For the first three years of our relationship she had me convinced I taught her to yell. Every time we had an argument, I would apologize and say I am sorry for teaching you to yell.

Three years in, she was upstairs at her mothers house yelling and her sister and I were downstairs listening. I said sorry to her sister about teaching my ex to yell. Her sister said this was normal for them and had been since my ex was 12, she was surprised it hadn't turned into throwing things - as that was also normal.

Instead of creating conflict, I kept this information to myself and continued to let her blame me for arguments (thankfully with my sanity in tact as the truth had come out).



The end of our relationship was brought on by her trying to kill me one night during an episode. Asked for an apology and she said it was my fault (I yelled a single time - something I normally avoided with her, which brought on an hour of attacks). At this point I sat her down and said we have issues in our relationship, I will be happy to take responsibility for half of them - but we need to work together. She refused and refused couples therapy, so that was the end of our relationship.

After breaking up, she wanted to know why I broke it off. I said it was because I refuse to take all the blame. She responded that it then makes it all my fault things failed.

So are you crazy? maybe... .Otherwise why would I or anyone else stay in a relationship with someone that creates such a crazy environment (and still crave that environment after being freed from it).

[waverider]

Previous post on the use of of the term "gaslighting"

"Gaslighting" is phrase coined after the movie of a sane but criminal mind deliberately causing another person to question their own sanity, for their own monetary gain.

pwBPd have a deluded sense of reality, although the action may seem like the above example of "gaslighting" it is not a correct description and can lead us down the wrong track of assumptions. What you have in this case is the "perpetrator", for want of a better term, having a faulty, or delusional version of reality. At the best it is a disregard for your reality other than what they want it to be. Often simply to validate their own feeling of the moment.

In short it is a sign of their own lack of reality. The effect may seem the same but the underlying reasons are entirely different. Without fully grasping the true reasoning behind this behavior, it is hard to isolate yourself from it.

The term "gaslighting" as a result is avoided by clinicians in mental health, as it carries with it inaccurate conotations

"Isolate" yourself from it is the preferred way to deal with it rather than "combat" it. In fact as a guide if you can avoid thinking about "combating" the effects of BPD you will make your life easier, as the disorder itself is often about drawing you into "combat'

When you use typical BPD management tools and methods these are often thrown back on you as projections and mirroring. Hence over explaining about the disorder can give a pwBPD the buzz words to add to their dictionary.

Waverider