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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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MapleBob
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« on: March 31, 2016, 01:22:27 PM »

Well folks, today is my birthday, and I'm dreading/hoping/wondering if I'll hear from my uBPDexgf. She's big on birthdays, but she's painted me black pretty hardcore at this point as far as I can tell. We've been NC for almost three months now, so it's still that 90-day "who knows?" window... .

I have good plans and things to be grateful for today, but I have to be honest that I'm having some low moments too, and fear moments, wondering if/how I'll hear from her. And I don't want to hear from her, and I want that last sign to detach, so... .  That and all of the "well dang, I'm 35 now" mortality thoughts and reflections ... .lots of feelings today. 
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2016, 01:41:05 PM »

Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear Mapleboob... , happy birthday to you!

Good you have plans  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

A 'last sign' from her will not detach you I think, so why don't you pass on that 'present'  Being cool (click to insert in post)?

Ahh... 35... beautiful age... Sigh... I wish I was still 35...  
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« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2016, 01:45:01 PM »

happy birthday maplebob!

treat yourself well today. celebrate Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2016, 01:51:55 PM »

Happy B-Day.  I also had the anxiety on my birthday but she blew off my B-Day just as easily as she threw me away.  So I say to you, turn off the phone, don't check your email and enjoy your B-Day!   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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joeramabeme
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2016, 04:02:06 PM »

Happy Birthday MapleBob.

I am with C Stein, enjoy the day.  Your worthy of the celebration whether or not she acknowledges... .
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2016, 05:12:16 PM »

Happy Birthday, Maplebob! I echo the others. Go have fun! I totally get the range of feelings you have as you've wondered about this day for a while. But do your best to enjoy it. Wake up tomorrow and notice that you've passed another big day on your path to true detachment.

And in july I'll be 39. So 35 is nothing!
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MapleBob
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2016, 08:06:40 PM »

Thank you ALL!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Been a pretty good day so far, despite some morning rumination. No word from the ex, but that wasn't unexpected. If she sent a card it might not even get here today (that was totally her style), so I'm kind of, like, whatever. Part of me is glad she hasn't, honestly. Anything she would have said would likely have made me angry, and I don't need that any day of the year (nor the inevitable deep-breath-clench-teeth-and-validate that I would have had to do).
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MapleBob
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2016, 09:22:56 AM »

Now I'm angry about it, and I feel silly. 
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C.Stein
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2016, 09:25:16 AM »

Now I'm angry about it, and I feel silly. 

Angry about what?
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2016, 09:25:28 AM »

Now I'm angry about it, and I feel silly. 

Angry that she didn't contact you, you mean?
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MapleBob
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2016, 09:35:01 AM »

Now I'm angry about it, and I feel silly. 

Angry that she didn't contact you, you mean?

Yes. It's not rational, and part of me is still glad that she didn't. But it's like the least she could do. I feel bratty about it!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2016, 09:38:34 AM »

Now I'm angry about it, and I feel silly. 

Angry that she didn't contact you, you mean?

Yes. It's not rational, and part of me is still glad that she didn't. But it's like the least she could do. I feel bratty about it!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Instead of being angry she didn't, be thankful.   Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2016, 09:44:04 AM »

Now I'm angry about it, and I feel silly.  

Angry that she didn't contact you, you mean?

Yes. It's not rational, and part of me is still glad that she didn't. But it's like the least she could do. I feel bratty about it!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I felt this hardcore on my birthday, back in September. I'd been obsessing on whether he'd contact me for months leading up to it.

Happy birthday!
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2016, 09:45:11 AM »

Now I'm angry about it, and I feel silly. 

Angry that she didn't contact you, you mean?

Yes. It's not rational, and part of me is still glad that she didn't. But it's like the least she could do. I feel bratty about it!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Did any of your other exes contact you for your birthday? And if not, or not all of them, are you angry with them?
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MapleBob
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2016, 09:50:53 AM »

Now I'm angry about it, and I feel silly. 

Angry that she didn't contact you, you mean?

Yes. It's not rational, and part of me is still glad that she didn't. But it's like the least she could do. I feel bratty about it!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Did any of your other exes contact you for your birthday? And if not, or not all of them, are you angry with them?

I see your point, WondedBibi. Of course they didn't, and of course I'm not. It's irrational! I know that she noticed the date, I know that she remembered (it hasn't been that long), and to me the classy thing to do would have been to at least write "Happy birthday" on my Facebook wall, or something. I mean, I get it. It's just another upset from her, and I am absolutely responsible in this instance for my own upset. I was hoping for better from someone who will always wind up disappointing me.
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2016, 09:52:06 AM »

i get being angry about it maplebob. is it possible she thought youd rather not hear from her?
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2016, 10:00:55 AM »

Now I'm angry about it, and I feel silly. 

Angry that she didn't contact you, you mean?

Yes. It's not rational, and part of me is still glad that she didn't. But it's like the least she could do. I feel bratty about it!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Did any of your other exes contact you for your birthday? And if not, or not all of them, are you angry with them?

I see your point, WondedBibi. Of course they didn't, and of course I'm not. It's irrational! I know that she noticed the date, I know that she remembered (it hasn't been that long), and to me the classy thing to do would have been to at least write "Happy birthday" on my Facebook wall, or something. I mean, I get it. It's just another upset from her, and I am absolutely responsible in this instance for my own upset. I was hoping for better from someone who will always wind up disappointing me.

Maybe it's not that she's trying to upset you. Maybe she doesn't give a rodent's behind about your birthday. Or maybe she thinks contacting you will upset you. Maybe she is lying drunk in a ditch. Or she couldn't contact you because she's been abducted by Martians.  There are many options why she didn't and we're not psychics.

But... ."the least she could do" sounds a bit like a pity prize to me.

"What's that you got there?"

"Oh, a birthday card from my ex"

"the BPD one that abused you?"

"Yeah"

"well... it's the least she could do after putting you through all that cr*p and breaking your heart, send you a card"

>>... .Really?

"It would have been classy". Is that realistic? Was she classy in anything else she did?

Yeah, I agree, you set yourself up for disappointment by expecting someone who has disappointed you A LOT not to disappoint you now.
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MapleBob
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2016, 10:02:22 AM »

i get being angry about it maplebob. is it possible she thought youd rather not hear from her?

Is it possible that she considered MY feelings?  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I think that she probably considered it and decided that she didn't want to give me an opportunity to reconnect. Maybe. Or she just didn't want to. We sent each other cards at Christmas and she admitted that she had a hard time writing that one even (and we were still in contact at that point). I don't know what I wanted or expected from her. She's gone, really. I set myself up by anticipating anything, I get that. It's been three months, and it just seemed like a golden opportunity for her to reach out, even if it was just "thinking of you on your birthday." Just a smidge of validation would have been nice, y'know?
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MapleBob
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2016, 10:05:26 AM »

Yeah, I agree, you set yourself up for disappointment by expecting someone who has disappointed you A LOT not to disappoint you now.

Oh I know, it's just hard. And our situation was a little bit different - we spent ten months trying to work things out between us in some vague way after the breakup over a year ago. And it was always framed as "one of these days I'm going to be less angry about the things that happened between us... ." Kind of hoped that would happen in time for my birthday. Our relationship always had "... ." at the end, but that's BPD, right?
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WoundedBibi
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2016, 10:08:03 AM »

i get being angry about it maplebob. is it possible she thought youd rather not hear from her?

Is it possible that she considered MY feelings?  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

I think that she probably considered it and decided that she didn't want to give me an opportunity to reconnect. Maybe. Or she just didn't want to. We sent each other cards at Christmas and she admitted that she had a hard time writing that one even (and we were still in contact at that point). I don't know what I wanted or expected from her. She's gone, really. I set myself up by anticipating anything, I get that. It's been three months, and it just seemed like a golden opportunity for her to reach out, even if it was just "thinking of you on your birthday." Just a smidge of validation would have been nice, y'know?

On the one hand I get it, on the other hand I think "what kind of validation would a birthday message be?" Does thinking of you on your birthday validate what she did? Or validate your pain? Or is it about acknowledging she once cared?
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« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2016, 10:10:04 AM »

Yeah, I agree, you set yourself up for disappointment by expecting someone who has disappointed you A LOT not to disappoint you now.

Oh I know, it's just hard. And our situation was a little bit different - we spent ten months trying to work things out between us in some vague way after the breakup over a year ago. And it was always framed as "one of these days I'm going to be less angry about the things that happened between us... ." Kind of hoped that would happen in time for my birthday. Our relationship always had "... ." at the end, but that's BPD, right?

Ahhhh... .So you were waiting/hoping for her to get passed her anger towards you?
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MapleBob
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2016, 10:30:08 AM »

On the one hand I get it, on the other hand I think "what kind of validation would a birthday message be?" Does thinking of you on your birthday validate what she did? Or validate your pain? Or is it about acknowledging she once cared?

Considering we went into NC with her saying that she still loved and cared about me and implying that she might be in touch again some day, it might give that statement some credence, yeah. (I know, I know ... .they all say that.)

Or maybe I'm clueless, I really don't know. Maybe a card comes in the mail today, or tomorrow, or never. I do know that would take more effort than that to convince me to reconnect with her.

I'm just disappointed, that's all. I got, like, 50 Facebook "happy birthdays" from people I barely know, and nothing from the person that I spent the last two years fighting for/with. I know that she thought about my birthday, and it sucks to know that she decided it wasn't worth it. The reasoning doesn't really matter.
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MapleBob
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« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2016, 10:37:29 AM »

Yeah, I agree, you set yourself up for disappointment by expecting someone who has disappointed you A LOT not to disappoint you now.

Oh I know, it's just hard. And our situation was a little bit different - we spent ten months trying to work things out between us in some vague way after the breakup over a year ago. And it was always framed as "one of these days I'm going to be less angry about the things that happened between us... ." Kind of hoped that would happen in time for my birthday. Our relationship always had "... ." at the end, but that's BPD, right?

Ahhhh... .So you were waiting/hoping for her to get passed her anger towards you?

That was pretty much the only constant in her behavior for the last year or so that we were in contact. "I'm SO angry at you, and I know now that I was wrong about a lot of the things that I was so upset about, but my experience was real and I have real feelings about it, and I'm trying to let it go, but it takes a really long time and a lot of space for me to do that... ." basically. A lot of back and forth, to the point that she finally shoved me away. I also heard a lot of "I'm just not strong enough to do this work."

It's a mess, I get it. I'd love for her to make a move. I'd feel validated by that, even if I had to say no.
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« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2016, 11:14:11 AM »

Maplebob, I get it. It isn't self-pity to acknowledge that disappointment. And, no, we aren't entitled to a place in our ex's thoughts but we are entitled to our feelings. It's natural to feel bad that she didn't want to be kind. I wish I'd had a word of kindness to honor all we'd been through. It wouldn't have cost him a thing, and yes, it would have been classy. I wished HIM a happy birthday. I took the high road every step of the way and made the breakup as easy for him as I possibly could, so--yes--I hoped he could be a human being about it.

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« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2016, 11:19:17 AM »

I think it's ok to be angry about it, maplebob. You're a person with real emotions and thoughts and feelings. I think it's good to recognize the anger, to tell people about it, and not bottle it all up. My T told me that yesterday when i was angry about something with my ex. Getting these feelings out is very good for us.

so good for you for being angry and sharing that with people.

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MapleBob
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« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2016, 11:22:03 AM »

Maplebob, I get it. It isn't self-pity to acknowledge that disappointment. And, no, we aren't entitled to a place in our ex's thoughts but we are entitled to our feelings. It's natural to feel bad that she didn't want to be kind. I wish I'd had a word of kindness to honor all we'd been through. It wouldn't have cost him a thing, and yes, it would have been classy. I wished HIM a happy birthday. I took the high road every step of the way and made the breakup as easy for him as I possibly could, so--yes--I hoped he could be a human being about it.

Exactly! Yes, me too. I mean, I guess we already did the classy "let's try to stay in touch and do special occasions" thing for a year (or ten months, or whatever). I was civil, I tried to put my feelings aside to be her friend while she spun out about things for a while, I was validating (eventually  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ), and she just kept flipping out at me with little provocation. I don't need any more of that, for sure, but a card or message would have been nice. That's all.

Like you said, I'm just disappointed. She said that we were family, but we're not.
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« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2016, 11:30:01 AM »

"I'm just not strong enough to do this work." That sounds like a likely true statement. Can it be the basis for some peace of mind? That is where I come that allows me a measure of forgiveness for my ex. He is not strong enough (now/yet) to do the work required.

He should not be running around starting r/ships with people with prior trauma (me) or otherwise, when he knows he isn't strong enough to do the necessary work with someone he loves. True. But he deludes himself with hope that with a new person it will magically be different.  Not an unusual self-delusion.

Bottom line: she cannot do what you need. It is too hard or she prefers an easier path. Given that, is it kinder to send a birthday greeting? Not at all sure that is true. I didn't send a greeting to my ex this past fall because his choices are such that I cannot make myself intimately available to him, and he doesn't stop at the level of birthday cards, and I already know this.  But my reason is not that he is not "worth it." It's just a bad and dangerous idea. Maybe your ex feels that way--cares, but, bad idea.
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MapleBob
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« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2016, 11:40:09 AM »

"I'm just not strong enough to do this work." That sounds like a likely true statement. Can it be the basis for some peace of mind? That is where I come that allows me a measure of forgiveness for my ex. He is not strong enough (now/yet) to do the work required.

It has been the basis for the some peace of mind, yes, however hard to accept it might be. It's funny, I think I posted recently in someone else's topic that my ex had said in the very early stages of our relationship that she has a tendency to bail when things get hard, and that she wanted someone who was strong enough to do the work at that point. Guess not! 

I'd like to think that she cares about me (and I'm actually sure that she does), and that she's out there doing her work to get to the place that she needs to be to have a relationship. I think she learned a lot from me/us in that regard. Maybe that's happening. She's a good person, just a bit ... .underdeveloped in terms of relationship skills.
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« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2016, 12:29:51 PM »

"I'm just not strong enough to do this work." That sounds like a likely true statement. Can it be the basis for some peace of mind? That is where I come that allows me a measure of forgiveness for my ex. He is not strong enough (now/yet) to do the work required.

It has been the basis for the some peace of mind, yes, however hard to accept it might be. It's funny, I think I posted recently in someone else's topic that my ex had said in the very early stages of our relationship that she has a tendency to bail when things get hard, and that she wanted someone who was strong enough to do the work at that point. Guess not! 

I think she did want that strong person when she said she did. But that doesn't mean she could get past her fears when the going got tough.

Excerpt
I'd like to think that she cares about me (and I'm actually sure that she does), and that she's out there doing her work to get to the place that she needs to be to have a relationship. I think she learned a lot from me/us in that regard. Maybe that's happening. She's a good person, just a bit ... .underdeveloped in terms of relationship skills.

I think she does. Just because a pwBPD subconsciously looks for other wounded souls (as do we) doesn't mean they don't care about us.

Whether she does the work or not remains to be seen but you shouldn't wait for it to happen.
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« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2016, 12:34:52 PM »

Whether she does the work or not remains to be seen but you shouldn't wait for it to happen.

I'm not. I'm moving forward in life, with (obviously) some over-the-shoulder glances to see if maybe she's "catching up", or trying to. I have lots of good things to say about her, but I could also rip her a new one over the things she has said/done and not been truly accountable for. I've kind of called it a draw. Doesn't mean it isn't disappointing, or that I'm not hurt and confused by her inabilities (not to mention her abilities - to be angry, to lash out, to refuse to forgive, to refuse to understand my side of things, etc). I'm in reality about it.
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« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2016, 03:09:26 PM »

Exactly! Yes, me too. I mean, I guess we already did the classy "let's try to stay in touch and do special occasions" thing for a year (or ten months, or whatever). I was civil, I tried to put my feelings aside to be her friend while she spun out about things for a while, I was validating (eventually  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ), and she just kept flipping out at me with little provocation. I don't need any more of that, for sure, but a card or message would have been nice. That's all.

Like you said, I'm just disappointed.

Confusing, isn't it!  They love us, we love them.  We know they care, they know we care.  So, what is the problem? 

MapleBob thank you for this thread.  It really captures the anguish we have to work through in detaching and reconciling what we believe/know is true versus the manifestation of the same.  Your feelings are very valid and dare I say "normal". 

What is out of balance is, IMO, not so much our feelings towards our ex's, as much as our belief that our expwBPD traits can maintain a steady-state of emotional intimacy.  I like to think of it all as a ship on a stormy ocean that is listing from side-side; at some point, in between the back and forth, the ship is in balance, but it can't stay that way.  But we see the ship can do it and keep trying to run from one side of the boat to the other to counter-balance the storms wind and waves. 

The analogy extends to our pwBPD with one side of the listing being; I love you and this is awesome - then listing to the other side; this does not feel safe I better get away.  And us taking emotional positions to counteract the runaway part.  The longer the r/s goes on, the more stormy the sea becomes until everyone on the ship is to sick to stay on-board and then it is off to re-chart a "better" course or board a new ship.

I suspect their "black" memory is of the listing ship; scary - out of control - nothing kept it stable.  The memory of the co-captain working their tail off to balance the boat may be present - but cannot overcome the bigger picture of the out of control boat.  They are unaware that the listing is created, in good measure, to their emotional imbalance.  And we are unaware that our counter-balancing the same listing adds to the imbalance as well.


Excerpt
She said that we were family, but we're not.

My ex said the same, I am sure she meant it, but cannot get back on board with me . . .
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« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2016, 03:25:52 PM »

Exactly! Yes, me too. I mean, I guess we already did the classy "let's try to stay in touch and do special occasions" thing for a year (or ten months, or whatever). I was civil, I tried to put my feelings aside to be her friend while she spun out about things for a while, I was validating (eventually  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ), and she just kept flipping out at me with little provocation. I don't need any more of that, for sure, but a card or message would have been nice. That's all.

Like you said, I'm just disappointed.

Confusing, isn't it!  They love us, we love them.  We know they care, they know we care.  So, what is the problem?  

MapleBob thank you for this thread.  It really captures the anguish we have to work through in detaching and reconciling what we believe/know is true versus the manifestation of the same.  Your feelings are very valid and dare I say "normal".

Yes, it's very confusing! She basically laid it right out for me in our last conversation: "I have a lot of anger and I can't hurry up the process of letting it go. It's just a slow, slow thing ... .I'm stuck on the bad things. It's what I obsess about and run over in my head. I know that's not fair, but it affects me. And it hurts just as much on my side, I promise ... ."

And "I like and love you, and I'm sorry that I don't have what it takes to know you right now. I don't know if you'll hear from me again, but I will reach out if the timing feels better some day. I hope this year is good to you, and you get the things you want in your life.   "

That's textbook BPD, right? "I love you SO MUCH, but my negative feelings and reactions are literally beyond my control." You kind of have to throw your hands up in the air about it.
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« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2016, 09:02:25 AM »

This whole thing has got me wanting to break No Contact with her, though it will probably be a disaster. It feels like giving power away, but I'm thinking about it... .
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« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2016, 09:36:24 AM »

This whole thing has got me wanting to break No Contact with her, though it will probably be a disaster. It feels like giving power away, but I'm thinking about it... .

Does breaking No Contact ever go well?
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« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2016, 09:39:14 AM »

This whole thing has got me wanting to break No Contact with her, though it will probably be a disaster. It feels like giving power away, but I'm thinking about it... .

Does breaking No Contact ever go well?

sure it does. but whats the motive and whats the goal?
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« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2016, 09:47:15 AM »

This whole thing has got me wanting to break No Contact with her, though it will probably be a disaster. It feels like giving power away, but I'm thinking about it... .

Does breaking No Contact ever go well?

sure it does. but whats the motive and whats the goal?

Well, the motive is that I miss her, first of all. I feel her absence, and I'd like to reconnect. I guess not hearing from her on my birthday made me realize that. The goal? I don't know, catching up? Seeing if there's an open door?
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« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2016, 09:53:36 AM »

This whole thing has got me wanting to break No Contact with her, though it will probably be a disaster. It feels like giving power away, but I'm thinking about it... .

Does breaking No Contact ever go well?

sure it does. but whats the motive and whats the goal?

Well, the motive is that I miss her, first of all. I feel her absence, and I'd like to reconnect. I guess not hearing from her on my birthday made me realize that. The goal? I don't know, catching up? Seeing if there's an open door?

You know Bob, I want the same because I also miss my ex.  Yet I cannot and won't reach out because even if she replied, which I doubt she would, I know anything she has to say to me will hurt me even more than I already have been hurt. 
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« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2016, 09:56:18 AM »

You know Bob, I want the same because I also miss my ex.  Yet I cannot and won't reach out because even if she replied, which I doubt she would, I know anything she has to say to me will hurt me even more than I already have been hurt. 

I guess I don't know that. I don't know WHAT would happen. Her way is to slam a door and harrumph about it, and I've had success in the past with her from knocking.
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« Reply #38 on: April 02, 2016, 09:58:51 AM »

This whole thing has got me wanting to break No Contact with her, though it will probably be a disaster. It feels like giving power away, but I'm thinking about it... .

Does breaking No Contact ever go well?

sure it does. but whats the motive and whats the goal?

Well, the motive is that I miss her, first of all. I feel her absence, and I'd like to reconnect. I guess not hearing from her on my birthday made me realize that. The goal? I don't know, catching up? Seeing if there's an open door?

So, you are checking to see if there is an "open door"?  What about her point of, "I'm trying to let it go, but it takes a really long time and a lot of space for me to do that... ." and "... .she finally shoved me away"? 

I am not going to advocate for or against NC but will point out that if you were to break NC that it should be with understanding and acceptance of her words foremost in your mind.  Based on what you have said, it does not sound like she is ready... .
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« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2016, 10:06:01 AM »

This whole thing has got me wanting to break No Contact with her, though it will probably be a disaster. It feels like giving power away, but I'm thinking about it... .

Does breaking No Contact ever go well?

sure it does. but whats the motive and whats the goal?

Well, the motive is that I miss her, first of all. I feel her absence, and I'd like to reconnect. I guess not hearing from her on my birthday made me realize that. The goal? I don't know, catching up? Seeing if there's an open door?

So, you are checking to see if there is an "open door"?  What about her point of, "I'm trying to let it go, but it takes a really long time and a lot of space for me to do that... ." and "... .she finally shoved me away"? 

I am not going to advocate for or against NC but will point out that if you were to break NC that it should be with understanding and acceptance of her words foremost in your mind.  Based on what you have said, it does not sound like she is ready... .

i agree. your motives and goal sound fine. hers should be understood and respected as well, for the time being. things can change. it sounds like the birthday and her lack of acknowledging it are triggering this reaction/urge which is understandable, though likely to pass. theres healing to be done on both sides. allowing the space between you both to do that will be more conducive if/when contact comes.
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« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2016, 10:43:23 AM »

This whole thing has got me wanting to break No Contact with her, though it will probably be a disaster. It feels like giving power away, but I'm thinking about it... .

Does breaking No Contact ever go well?

sure it does. but whats the motive and whats the goal?

Well, the motive is that I miss her, first of all. I feel her absence, and I'd like to reconnect. I guess not hearing from her on my birthday made me realize that. The goal? I don't know, catching up? Seeing if there's an open door?

So, you are checking to see if there is an "open door"?  What about her point of, "I'm trying to let it go, but it takes a really long time and a lot of space for me to do that... ." and "... .she finally shoved me away"? 

I am not going to advocate for or against NC but will point out that if you were to break NC that it should be with understanding and acceptance of her words foremost in your mind.  Based on what you have said, it does not sound like she is ready... .

i agree. your motives and goal sound fine. hers should be understood and respected as well, for the time being. things can change. it sounds like the birthday and her lack of acknowledging it are triggering this reaction/urge which is understandable, though likely to pass. theres healing to be done on both sides. allowing the space between you both to do that will be more conducive if/when contact comes.

Those quotes are from early January, so there HAS been a fair bit of breathing room. No contact since then. On the one hand, I feel like she was very clear about her intentions to move on (as opposed to just "taking some time", but on the other hand she left a window open for later (right?). Maybe you're both right and it's too soon, but I'd rather be rebuffed because it's too soon than hear "oops, too late, wish I would have heard from you earlier!"
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« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2016, 12:01:58 PM »

I've had the same idle thought about not wanting to reach out and find it's "too late." But I think, even if he was somehow single and truly open to a new relationship with me (and at this point it would be a new relationship), well, now I know how he handles relationship problems, and there will always be problems, and I can't be with someone who handles them this way. Also, he's acted heartlessly, and maybe someone else could deal with that and get to the bottom of it and radically accept it, but not me. I'm too wounded myself.

Best to leave it alone.

#selftalk
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« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2016, 12:40:04 PM »

I wrote an email, but I haven't sent it. Just a general "hey, I'd love to catch up some time if you're game, no pressure" kind of thing. Second guessing.
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« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2016, 01:03:01 PM »

Give it 48 hours.
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« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2016, 01:24:45 PM »

Give it 48 hours.

That's probably wise, although I feel like I've given it *months* already!  

I guess I'm leaning towards "no" now. It really should be her doing the reaching out; that was basically the agreement we made. I would think I'd see a sign if she was genuinely interested in reconnecting, but then again, she's very good at *pretending* to let people go when she obviously hasn't (lots of ex talk).
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« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2016, 01:49:40 PM »

It really should be her doing the reaching out; that was basically the agreement we made. I would think I'd see a sign if she was genuinely interested in reconnecting

^^^^^ that

Healthy relationships are, amongst other things, about putting in healthy boundaries and respecting boundaries.

She has put in her boundary.

Excerpt
, but then again, she's very good at *pretending* to let people go when she obviously hasn't (lots of ex talk).

You're filling in for her. Is that healthy behaviour?

Would your behaviour lead to a healthy relationship with a chance to survive?

You're thinking of crossing the boundary she has put in.

She had said she needs time. You seem to be wanting to force her hand: "is it time yet?".

It's only been two months... Let her decide when she is ready without you pushing for an answer.

Don't fill in for her what she might or might not think or pretend to do.

If you mean as much to her as she does to you, she will contact you when SHE is ready. Forcing her now will probably make her angrier or you recycle together and it still doesn't work because it is too soon.

She seems very aware of her issues and self reflective. Who knows, perhaps she can manage the BPD enough to be in a healthy and successful relationship. But learning how to manage her BPD is a marathon, not a sprint.

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« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2016, 04:41:07 PM »

I'd give it 48 hours and then not send it. I know how hard that can be and how these feelings can come back to us. I've been there, for sure. But every time I do have contact it comes back to hurt my recovery. And it also makes them feel like what they did was OK. We know what they did wasn't OK.

keep working on you. keep recovering. keep NC.

you got this, maplebob.
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« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2016, 04:47:18 PM »

Mine wished me a happy birthday a month early and then didn't say a word on the day. I was angry too. I will not be wishing him one this year is all I can say. Stay no contact... .it gets easier that way. All you get is hurt more if you initiate it and they don't respond like you want them too.
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« Reply #48 on: April 02, 2016, 05:15:19 PM »

Thank you all. I think I'm going to wait, but I do think I'll ultimately send her an email. Like I said, it'll be something simple and low-pressure and I'm fully prepared for her to not respond at all, or to respond badly. I don't necessarily think it's boundary-busting to say that I've been thinking about her and that I'd like to reconnect if she's interested - so long as I keep my expectations low, and a sense of calm and openness to what I'll hear. Which I do genuinely feel.

I've come a long way in these past months, and just maybe she has too. I've honestly kind of hit the wall in terms of being in NC intentionally. This feels like one of those times when you go "well, I need to move out of NC into just living, but I've still got attachment, so one last olive branch and then it's kaput." That's probably a bad idea or faulty thinking, and maybe I'll regret touching the stove again, and maybe in a couple of days I won't even want to do it, but I feel like maybe I need to for me. Does that make sense?
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« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2016, 07:01:11 AM »

so one last olive branch and then it's kaput.

For what reason? 

I certainly understand still feeling attached but I feel a great deal of anxiety when thinking about reaching out or reengaging with my ex.  In her eyes our relationship is probably like a lifetime ago and that hurts.   For me it seems like yesterday in many ways.   I honestly don't want to know anything about what she is doing because I know it will bring me nothing but pain.
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« Reply #50 on: April 03, 2016, 10:19:22 AM »

So I did wind up sending her an email yesterday afternoon, and she replied late in the evening (I'm guessing she gave it some thought). It was a courteous response, but she's "not interested in reconnecting", because she finds it "much easier this way". I'm not sure what to make of that, but I'm not surprised - and I'm surprisingly unphased. It's what I expected to hear, it confirms my suspicions that she's decided to just move on, and it's my sign to really let her go. That was the point.

It sucks, but I've suspected for a while that - however much I may care about and love her - she's not the one for me. Not strong enough, not stable enough, not brave enough, and certainly too wrapped up in her own distorted worldview and the dysfunctional ex-husband relationship (ie. she'll never fully be a partner to anyone - or at least not until her daughter is grown, which will be more than a decade from now). And I do blame her BPD traits (and her FOO) for a lot of what we went through together. I'm going to be okay with this, and she will too. I can see the ways in which I changed her life, and that's the point of relationships, right?
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« Reply #51 on: April 03, 2016, 10:49:23 AM »

I'm sorry, Maplebob. And your rational mind is giving you the right answers. This is a litmus test of whether you even want her in your life. She's telling you (again) what she's capable of, and you need/deserve/will get more.
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« Reply #52 on: April 03, 2016, 02:43:23 PM »

Well, at least you have a positive direction now ... .forward.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #53 on: April 03, 2016, 02:50:43 PM »

Well, at least you have a positive direction now ... .forward.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Exactly. Her business-like tone was pretty unlike the way she's dealt with me in the past (and kind of a turnoff, honestly), so whatever. Her loss, for real. I put in SO MUCH work, and she's just going to keep having messy relationships that she quits on until she "probably dies alone, like (her) grandmother" (her words, not long ago).
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« Reply #54 on: April 04, 2016, 08:12:39 PM »

So I did wind up sending her an email yesterday afternoon, and she replied late in the evening (I'm guessing she gave it some thought). It was a courteous response, but she's "not interested in reconnecting", because she finds it "much easier this way". I'm not sure what to make of that, but I'm not surprised - and I'm surprisingly unphased. It's what I expected to hear, it confirms my suspicions that she's decided to just move on, and it's my sign to really let her go. That was the point.

It sucks, but I've suspected for a while that - however much I may care about and love her - she's not the one for me.

Hey MapleBob, just want to say that I think it took great courage to follow your internals.  Congratulations for following your instincts.  I am sure that this is not what you wanted to hear from her and that there is some sadness about it all.  I know my sadness has been layered like an onion, tears and all while peeling it back. 

We cannot change others.  This is the hardest lesson to learn, at least for me.  Our analysis and overview of events that transpired may be spot on but has no impact on our r/s' if our partners do not share in that view.  By definition, pwBPD traits cannot share in that view.  It is a true catch-22.  As I have processed through the loss I have come to a greater belief/acceptance of BPD and removed a lot of thoughts such as "she is not BPD that much".   

Keep us posted.
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« Reply #55 on: April 04, 2016, 10:08:43 PM »

Hey MapleBob, just want to say that I think it took great courage to follow your internals.  Congratulations for following your instincts.  I am sure that this is not what you wanted to hear from her and that there is some sadness about it all.  I know my sadness has been layered like an onion, tears and all while peeling it back. 

Well thank you!  Smiling (click to insert in post)

It wasn't an easy choice to make, but I felt like I was at a fork in the road and needed a signpost from her. But it IS sad. I started another thread over here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=292380.0

We cannot change others.  This is the hardest lesson to learn, at least for me.  Our analysis and overview of events that transpired may be spot on but has no impact on our r/s' if our partners do not share in that view.  By definition, pwBPD traits cannot share in that view.  It is a true catch-22.  As I have processed through the loss I have come to a greater belief/acceptance of BPD and removed a lot of thoughts such as "she is not BPD that much".

My therapist from years back always used to say "the codependent's drug of choice is control" - and that's certainly something that we all wish we could obtain.

She admitted in a moment of clarity months ago that "sometimes you make a really valid point, or you say the exact right thing, and I just ignore it because I'm too busy being mad at you". I can't really work with that, obviously, and there's not much that I can do to change it. I made my share of mistakes too (I'm great at mistakes!  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) ), but I stuck around to work through it. She tried too, it wasn't easy for either of us. It's just what it is.
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