From Underneath the Rubble

[Meili]

In my research about codependency today, I was reading about caregivers mistaking feeling needed as love. This is, if I understand correctly, because they don't believe that they are lovable.

Why this is important to me has to do with my refusal to give up my friendship with my previous ex while with my uBPDexgf.

At some point, I stopped feeling that my uBPDexgf needed me. Well, other than for someone to keep her company when bored and blame things on. I had even told her that I felt that our r/a was in name only.

The other ex was going through a bad time in her life, and I felt needed by her. For me, it was about fulfilling my need to feel important and worthy. Like I meant something in the world.

This is important to me because each and every time my uBPDexgf asked why I kept running back to the other ex to talk, all that I've been able to tell her is that I felt safe talking to her. But, I've never been able to explain what felt safe. It might be that I felt safe because I felt needed.

In true codependent fashion, that feeling safe turned into feeling used though.

[fromheeltoheal]

In my research about codependency today, I was reading about caregivers mistaking feeling needed as love. This is, if I understand correctly, because they don't believe that they are lovable.

Yup, I can relate to that, that's the feeling of "addiction" many of us have in and after these relationship; real love feels warm and mellow, chasing a need feels chaotic and tense.

And to expand, a 'codependent' feels they aren't inherently lovable, aren't lovable just the way they are, they have to DO something to be loved, instead of just be loved, be love.  There's a reason for that, that goes back a long way, long before we met our exes, and digging there is fruitful, probably goes back to the way we were raised and how it felt then, and it's not necessarily our 'parent's fault', it's the way the whole dynamic fit together; someone can love us a great deal, but if it's not in a way that we can feel, because of the way we're wired, we won't feel loved.

Digging there can be fruitful, and once we get a sense of what went on and what's going on, then what?  For me it's a simple as fully associating to the belief that I am inherently lovable, just the way I am, simple as that.  And we've got very old wiring that will try and negate that, so we get to insist on that belief with extra vigor, and look for references to support it.  I started with my dogs, they love me no matter what, and why is that?  Because I'm inherently lovable, just ask them.  But taking that out into the world, it's a sea change; if someone isn't going to love me for who I am, I need to first counter the inevitable, automatic feeling that I need to do something to gain that love, I get to just be lovable, and coming from that place there are some people who really need to be removed from my life, my ex being one, she wasn't capable of real love, not her fault, but she wasn't, sad, but there's no room for that in my life.

And when we take that stance, carry ourselves like we're inherently lovable, because we say so, everything changes.  And then folks show up who consider themselves inherently lovable too, and there's an understanding.  And someone who is inherently lovable does not need to put up with the sht they may have previously, because the belief system they were running required it, and then we can come to the realization that our relationship with a borderline may not have been necessary to get where we are, but it sure sped up the process, and for that we're grateful.  What if everything happens for a reason and it serves us?

[Meili]

Yeah, I had the realization a few days ago that I am worthy of love just because I exist. By that I mean that I don't have to earn love. I am lovable just the way that I am without the need to change or do anything special. It was both liberating and sad. There have been so many hurts perpetrated and received by me as a result of my old beliefs.

I'm trying not beat myself up about the wrongs that I've committed that I cannot change; just accept that they happened and learn from them. We often talk about the wake that is left by pwBPD, I've done the same. Good, well-meaning, and loving people have hurt because I didn't understand what was going on. I truly hope to never be like that again.

My r/s with my uBPDexgf was definitely a gift to me. When I started down my path of self-realization while we were still together, but fighting, she would sarcastically tell me something to the effect that she was so glad that she suffered so much to make me a better person for the next woman. It makes me sad that I cannot share all of this with her.

[Lucky Jim]

I am lovable just the way that I am without the need to change or do anything special.

Right, Meili, you are worthy, just the way you are.  You were born worthy.   

Suggest you ponder the concepts of self-love and self-acceptance as corollaries to your worthiness.  Hint: If you love yourself enough, you will never allow yourself to be the object of someone else's abuse again.  Yet a lot of us Nons, me included, seem to think on some level that we deserve to be treated poorly.  Not so!  Took a long time for me to wrap my head around this concept. 

LJ

[Meili]

Self-love, I'm struggling with, but not giving up.

Self-acceptance is a bit easier. I'm starting to accept myself for who I am, change the things that I am seeing need to be changed and accept the rest.

Self-soothing and self-validation are other biggies for to tackle. I'm getting better with those. Practice makes perfect!

Speaking of validation, that's something else that I've discovered today that I need a lot of work on. I always thought that when not in a state of panic, I did a decent job of validating others. But, learning more about it, I'm not as good as I thought. I'm happy that I discovered that so that I can work on changing the behavior.

I can see numerous examples of where I was invalidating to my x. There were so many times that she would try to express her feelings and I'd shut her down quickly and efficiently. She even tried to tell me that and I argued. I'm glad that I can see it now and have a chance to work on it so that I don't continue to carry those behaviors into my future.

[Meili]

Coming through the FOG has been an interesting and exciting journey. I would even dare to say that the pain has been worth all of it because it was necessary to catapult me out of the rut that I have been in for so long.

I am scared, at this moment, about all of my new changes. They are still little more than saplings trying to take root. Each day they grow a tiny bit deeper into the core, but still have a long journey to go before they actually become a stable foundation. If a storm like the one that produces the FOG were to return, I fear that they would all wash away in a devastating flash flood. I am attempting to build barriers to protect the seedlings, but my tools still seem to be inadequate and my workers lazy and working against me.

My inner critic is loud tonight. He woke me up screaming at me about how I'm going to destroy all of the work that I've done because that's what I do. He has been reminding me how weak I still am, and has been trying to convince me that none of what I'm seeing happening "to" me is real. He's still telling me that, in spite of all the empirical evidence to the contrary, I'm not worthy of all the kindness, attention, and effort others have been showing me.

I know that this is a result of the loss that I'm feeling, but that is of little comfort at this moment. Another major player in this is that I had a great day today. But, my inner critic is telling me that the day, and everything that happened, was all just the result of people being fake and nice. He is also telling me that none of the people that I communicated with were doing anything more than humoring me.

If I had to venture a guess, I would have to say that it is the result of my x triggering my fear of rejection issues. It's funny how one person's actions (or lack there of as is the case today) can override the kindness of a host of others.

But, I suppose that if I'm completely honest with myself, it has nothing to do with her. It's my own inner voices that are working against me at this moment. It is my wanting so desperately to win the approval of someone that I'll never be able to get it from that is telling me that I'm unworthy.

[Lucky Jim]

It is my wanting so desperately to win the approval of someone that I'll never be able to get it from that is telling me that I'm unworthy.

Hey Meili, The only person you need approval from, needless to say, is yourself.  Whether someone else may approve or disapprove of you is largely out of your control so it's best to let go of that outcome.

My Inner Critic is often wrong, I've noticed, so I suggest you take yours with a grain of salt.  Certainly the Inner Critic has nothing positive to say.

I disagree about those saplings you mentioned, which I predict will stay rooted.  FOG is much less effective when you see it coming a mile away.  In my view, poison is harmless, if you don't ingest it!

LuckyJim

[Meili]

I certainly hope that you're right about my saplings!

Each day seems a bit better. I feel a bit stronger. I think that you're right about the FOG.

Much of this is still confusing to me. By "this" I mean all that is going on inside me as I start to peel back the layers of my life. I'm not scared to look at it anymore though. I'm actually really enjoying doing what comes naturally to me without bowing to my own fears.

[Meili]

I had interesting conversations with both my uBPDexgf and T today (separately of course). Both asked me why I continue to do things that are harmful to myself in the sense that they are contradictory to what I say that I want in my life.

After much babbling, I finally figured it out; codependency. I put the wants and needs of others before my own. I don't say to things that I should. I do things that I don't want to do because I don't allow the other person to own their own emotions. I try to protect them from their emotions by giving them what they want. I hurt myself in this process. Often times, the other person ultimately gets hurt worse.

The biggest thing that was a trigger for my x was the result of my not being able to say no to another person because I didn't want to hurt that person's feelings.

Then, later, when my x and I were talking about reconciling, the part of the codependency that keeps me terrified of being alone kicked in and I reached back out to the very same person that triggered my x to begin with, thus killing all hope of reconciliation efforts.

[Lucky Jim]

After much babbling, I finally figured it out; codependency. I put the wants and needs of others before my own. I don't say to things that I should. I do things that I don't want to do because I don't allow the other person to own their own emotions. I try to protect them from their emotions by giving them what they want. I hurt myself in this process. Often times, the other person ultimately gets hurt worse.

Hey Meili, Join the Club!   
I suspect most Nons (including me) have codependent tendencies, otherwise they wouldn't put up with a pwBPD.  You hit the nail on the head.  Care taking someone else is a way to avoid caring for oneself, in my view.  Yet once you recognize your own codependent tendencies, it's possible, quite possible in my experience, to change one's behavior.  This may sound trite, but now I consciously ask myself if something is actually "my problem"; if not, then i don't take on the additional burden.

LuckyJim

[Meili]

I knew that I had codependency tendencies that caused me to make poor choices. What I didn't know was to what extent I was willing to damage my own world for the sake of temporary comfort for others.

Now I find myself in a bad spot where I've hurt two people that I truly care about. One or the other (or, possibly both!) will have to continue to be hurt. This is way more than my fragile saplings are ready to handle.

But, I'm sure that I'll take it in stride and not beat myself up too much about it. What's been done is done. The question becomes how much more damage and I willing to do?

[fromheeltoheal]

The question becomes how much more damage and I willing to do?

Or it could become how much healthier am I getting today, yes? 

You and I were talking about Pete Walker, and one thing he mentions victims of trauma do is abandon themselves, and the way out of that is to focus on self-protection and not self abandoning.  Codependency, putting someone else's needs ahead of our own, and not only that, taking on the identity of being the caretaker, fixer, enabler, for someone else as way to get our needs met, is also abandoning ourselves, while still getting our needs met in a backhanded way.

So what if we didn't do that?  What if we learned to self-validate so we don't need to seek external validation, what if we built and protected good boundaries with a fierce determination to not abandon our needs for someone else?  And in my case, what if we practice slowing down and feeling, instead of running and thinking, and settle into ourselves and our feelings and stay centered, no matter what.  So look at us: internally validating, protecting ourselves, staying centered, being instead of doing; that's a great place to build a life from, and coming from that place we'll know who to let in and who not, and we'll attract folks who are living the same way.  Oh yes, sign me up!

[Lucky Jim]

What if we learned to self-validate so we don't need to seek external validation, what if we built and protected good boundaries with a fierce determination to not abandon our needs for someone else?  And in my case, what if we practice slowing down and feeling, instead of running and thinking, and settle into ourselves and our feelings and stay centered, no matter what.  So look at us: internally validating, protecting ourselves, staying centered, being instead of doing; that's a great place to build a life from, and coming from that place we'll know who to let in and who not, and we'll attract folks who are living the same way.

Like what you're saying there, from H2H, to which I subscribe!  I would add letting go of the outcome and learning to allow things to unfold naturally, the way they are supposed to.  Making my life a journey towards authenticity.  Listening to my gut feelings.

LuckyJim

[Meili]

A few days ago, I would have said that I agree with all of that and that I've already started to practice it. While I still agree with all of it, I've only been practicing it in some ways. In others, I have failed miserably. Learning experiences those are.

I've never understood the "listen to your gut" suggestion. When so much of a person's life is filled with anxiety, their gut tends to lie to them. Like when people first come to these boards, they are filled with fear and anxiety. They want nothing more than to ease their pain. Their gut is telling them to frantically hold on to every molecule of what is left of their r/s (I still fall into this category from time to time btw - this is one of them). Their gut is screaming at them to do something that is contrary to what is healthy.

A recent episode in my life:

The biggest thing that was a trigger for my x was the result of my not being able to say no to another person because I didn't want to hurt that person's feelings.

Then, later, when my x and I were talking about reconciling, the part of the codependency that keeps me terrified of being alone kicked in and I reached back out to the very same person that triggered my x to begin with, thus killing all hope of reconciliation efforts.

Is a prime example of why I cannot trust my gut. My gut told me that I was in danger and I reverted back to the one thing that would destroy what I was trying to accomplish.

This is the first morning that I haven't heard from my x in over a week. My gut is screaming that I should reach out to her. But, I know that it isn't the healthy choice.

Listening to my gut makes me reactionary. I want to be proactive in my life.

[fromheeltoheal]

I've never understood the "listen to your gut" suggestion. When so much of a person's life is filled with anxiety, their gut tends to lie to them. Like when people first come to these boards, they are filled with fear and anxiety. They want nothing more than to ease their pain. Their gut is telling them to frantically hold on to every molecule of what is left of their r/s (I still fall into this category from time to time btw - this is one of them). Their gut is screaming at them to do something that is contrary to what is healthy.

Listening to my gut makes me reactionary. I want to be proactive in my life.

The main caveat to listening to our guts is that we need to be centered when we're doing it, so the message is clear.  If the emotions we're experiencing at the time are fear and anxiety, we're triggered, and decisions made from that place are almost always the wrong decisions.  And our guts don't speak to us in words, they speak to us in feelings, so "listening" to our guts is really inaccurate, we're really "feeling" our guts, and think about it, when we're triggered, fearful and anxious, that's what we're feeling, fear and anxiety, and if we listened to that we would flee or fight, appropriate responses to those emotions.

At the end of these relationships, when dysfunction is high and both partners are triggered, best to listen to your head, think your way through it; we usually know what the right thing to do is, and if our heart is telling us something else and we decide to do that, then we'll come up with justifications to counter what we know is right.  Can you relate?

The place to "listen" to our gut is at the beginning of the relationship, before the dysfunction begins and before we see the extent of the disorder.  You hear all the time around here about folks "ignoring red flags", well, what if we were committed to staying centered and in touch with our feelings no matter what, and acting accordingly?  If I'd done that my relationship wouldn't have gotten beyond the second date, and there's the lesson, seeing the value of staying centered and in touch with our feelings, because when we don't things get very painful; that's something we can use moving forward yes?

So you've only gone a week Meilli, no time at all really, and of course your "gut" is screaming, or is it your heart instead?  As mentioned, our brain and heart disagree at the end of these relationships, and if we trust our brain and do what's right, and listen to other people who have been through it, then we can begin detaching and creating a life we want to live, and eventually our hearts will catch up and align with what we know if right.

Take care of you!

[Meili]

I get what you're saying. The feeling in my gut is the same whether it is thinking about skydiving, forever walking away from my x (at least I completely realize that's entirely within my control now), or choosing the wrong brand of bathroom tissue (sadly, I live alone and no one would know the difference but me!).

Fortunately, I'm learning to sit with those feelings and self-soothe. I'm learning to determine what is important and what isn't. I'm learning what is within my control and what isn't.

I think that a lot of this has moved past the r/s with my pwBPD. I'm now delving into the FOO issues. I'm frustrated with myself for screwing up the chance to reconcile because of my fear. All that I had to do was stay away from the other woman. That's really not too much to ask in the greater scheme of things. But, I freaked out and reverted back to past behaviors. Just like any addict who doesn't yet have the tools to cope. My T suggested that I start saying no to the other woman, and to start to gradually pull away as I learn to take care of myself better and develop new r/s with others. Doesn't sound like the worst plan to me. I know that won't work for my x, but it isn't about her at this point.

uummm... .I wouldn't say that I've gone a week without anything. I had a long conversation via text with my x yesterday about why I ran back to the other woman when I found out that my x was seeing someone and thought it best if we stopped trying to work things out between the two of us. I saw the other woman last night. Not a lot has changed on those fronts. I am changing though. I am growing. Slowly, but it's happening.

[Grey Kitty]

I knew that I had codependency tendencies that caused me to make poor choices. What I didn't know was to what extent I was willing to damage my own world for the sake of temporary comfort for others.

Now I find myself in a bad spot where I've hurt two people that I truly care about. One or the other (or, possibly both!) will have to continue to be hurt.

Does the situation leave room for an apology or reparations on your part in either case?

Hard to do... .but can help you really appreciate the lesson learned better if you have to go there!

[Meili]

With one definitely yes (she already understands), the other is a long shot.

Basically, I have to choose between a long time friend and my uBPDexgf. I can't have any sort of r/s with both.

I had been trying to protect both of them from being hurt. In the process I hurt both of them, destroyed what was left of my r/s with my x, and ultimately hurt myself.

At this point, I can maintain my friendship and completely forget about my x. Or I can terminate the friendship forever more and hope that my x and I can work things out at some point in the future.

To be clear here, my x isn't really being unreasonable. I was engaged to the other woman at one point. She still has feelings for me too, but respects my feelings for my x. What's funny is that two weeks ago, I had terminated all ties to the other woman. It wasn't until I found out that my x was seeing the new guy that I contacted her.

What a mess I've created! Sorry, I know that this is supposed to be about me and not my x.

[Grey Kitty]

Ok, that explains the problems / landscape you are dealing with.

I'd add that you have a third (but unlikely) possibility: You can choose your friend/ex as a friend (I'm assuming that you have no romantic interest in her anymore, even if she still does), give up reconciling with your uBPDexgf, but leave the door open to be friends with her again someday.

What I don't get is where the part of trying to protect them both from being hurt is, or what was codependent?

Were you trying to have friendships with both of them, hoping that neither one would notice the other was in contact with you?

[Meili]

OK, here's where it starts to get complicated.

I was trying to make neither of them feel abandoned, less than important, or that I didn't care.

The friend knew and respected the situation with my x. The x kept telling me that I must terminate the friendship, so I kept trying to do that. The friend would contact me and I'd respond and go right back to helping her. She even made me executor of her estate. My x hated that.

On the other side, I kept trying to get away from my friend because that's what my x wanted. She felt that I was choosing the friend over her. So, I kept telling her that I'd never talk to the friend again, but would always end up doing it because I couldn't say no and was putting her feelings before my own. I would hide the friendship from my x so as to not upset her.

X and I split. I renewed the friendship. X and I start talking about reconciling. I told the friend that she had to be gone. She understood and that was that until x told me that she is seeing someone. Rather than being alone, I succumbed to the codependency and reached out to the friend again. The end result was my x contacting me to tell me that she was disappointed in the fact that I can't stay away from the friend.

I could have stayed away from the friend long ago if it wasn't for my fear of being alone and inability to tell people no.

Does that make better sense?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Meili, Frankly, I think your xGF was being unreasonable and manipulative by making it an either/or situation, presumably because of her own insecurities.  My BPDxW did the same thing to me with my family and friends.  I actually think you did the right thing by talking to your friend and I find it encouraging that you renewed your friendship after you split from your Ex.  So, I guess what I'm saying is, I don't agree with the position taken by your xGF, because she was forcing your to make a choice when no choice was necessary, except to the extent it was necessary due to her emotional immaturity.  That's how I see it.

Concerning your gut feelings, I think FromH2H explained it well.  Let's just say that at the outset of my r/s with my BPDxW, I knew in my gut that there was something inherently off about my Ex, or at least I sensed that she was not really the right person for me, but I elected to ignore my gut feelings and stay in the r/s even though I knew deep down it was a mistake.  I even postponed our wedding once.  So I would say that I sensed the red flags, but didn't know how to interpret them because I had no experience with BPD.

LuckyJim

[Meili]

Thank you for validating my position regarding my friend. I have beaten myself up so many times about it. I have tried to convince myself that things would have turned out differently. But, I know that they wouldn't have.

I also agree that it was her own insecurities and the red flags. She pushed for marriage. I wouldn't do it because of all the flags. My second ex wife cured me of that!

[cherryblossom]

It's late and im about to sleep and read some of this just wanted to say i got locked in my room too -when i was naughty as a child - it is really f'd up and I have been masking my pain for years - I have found my T being away for 3 wks v difficult sorry if this is a bit out of context as u posted that nr the top but i havnt read it all yet just wanted to share that for now.  X

[Grey Kitty]

In another topic I saw going through a situation describing what they and their partner did, giving the sequence of bad actions, identifying where each one chose poorly. I'd like to go through some of this as I see it in your situation:

The friend knew and respected the situation with my x.

Good for the friend to respect your r/s

The x kept telling me that I must terminate the friendship

It is manipulative and controlling to tell you who you can and can't be friends with. I wouldn't put up with that. As far as I'm concerned, that is true with an ex in general... .just like it is true with anybody who is of a gender you might find attractive.

Our society does say that this kind of jealousy and forcing your lover to cut ties with any and all exes is acceptable, or at least a lot closer than I would.

If one particular person trips this kind of jealousy, perhaps there is a good reason, and maybe it is worth honoring to keep the peace. If many or all people trip this jealousy, then the jealousy is the problem.

*IF* your x knew you had cheated on your x with this friend during the r/s, or even had an emotional affair, I'd say that this demand is justifiable on her part. (In fact I placed a similar demand on my stbexw regarding a guy she cheated on me with)

You don't mention anything to justify this demand... .I wouldn't accept it myself.

so I kept trying to do that.

Kinda codependent to try to do this, but good of you to attempt to honor your word.

The friend would contact me

Weeeelllll... .this doesn't sound like respecting the situation with your x

I'd respond and go right back to helping her.

Codependent/not cool. If you tell your x you won't contact the friend, then live up to it. (Or tell the x that you won't shut your friend out of your life, and be upfront that you are doing this)

She even made me executor of her estate. My x hated that.

OK, that is pushing the envelope given what's going on with x trying to shut her out of your life. Was there really nobody else she could choose?

I kept trying to get away from my friend because that's what my x wanted.

Lay off this "trying" bit... .as Yoda said, there is no try. There is only do or do not.

She felt that I was choosing the friend over her.

Not what you did, but it is her feeling.

She ought to feel betrayed because you kept breaking your promise to her though.

So, I kept telling her that I'd never talk to the friend again

Did you believe it when you told her?

but would always end up doing it because I couldn't say no and was putting her feelings before my own.

The problem here is that you can't say "no" to either woman, so you kept giving your x your word then breaking it.

I would hide the friendship from my x so as to not upset her.

Deception isn't helping anything.

X and I split. I renewed the friendship.

This seems like a good choice for you at this time.

X and I start talking about reconciling. I told the friend that she had to be gone.

This also seems reasonable on everybody's part (giving you the benefit of the doubt on reconciliation)

She understood and that was that until x told me that she is seeing someone.

Seems like a valid conclusion for your friend here.

Rather than being alone, I succumbed to the codependency and reached out to the friend again.

The end result was my x contacting me to tell me that she was disappointed in the fact that I can't stay away from the friend.

Your x gets to have her feelings, but this is still messed up--she's seeing somebody else and she think she has a right to tellyou who your friends should be at this point![/quote]


Does this clarify things for you?

My perspective: I'm on the verge of dating again soon. I've got some very close, intimate, trusted female friends. Some close male friends too, but more female ones. Among other things, they pulled me through my breakup with my wife. I hope to someday be closer friends with my stbexwife, although it is more distant right now. These women will be (virtually) holding my hand as I head into my next r/s, cheering me on, hoping for the best and helping me keep my eyes open.

None of them are sexual/romantic relationships.

A woman I'm dating who is too insecure to accept this about me isn't the right woman for me. I've been in the position of having a partner shut down my friendships out of jealousy/control/manipulation. I won't do that again.

[Meili]

CB, I was locked in the room so that my mother didn't have to deal with me. I'm not saying that mine was worse, just providing more info.

GK, I have replayed all of this so many times in my head. I admit that I made poor choices; well, we all dI'd in this situation.

It probably should be noted that my x got jealous of any female. She also got jealous if I responded to someone on FB before I answered her email.

I eventually told my x that she didn't get to dictate my friends. The r/s never recovered from that. I hear that once we truly start to find our strength, pwBPD then to shy away from us.

And, yes, each time that I promised to never speak to the friend again, I meant it. It wasn't a lie, it was poor impulse control.

Anyway, as you can see from all of this, I completely lacked boundary control. I also gave into my impulses trying to keep both of them happy in their respective roles in my world.

[Grey Kitty]

I eventually told my x that she didn't get to dictate my friends. The r/s never recovered from that. I hear that once we truly start to find our strength, pwBPD then to shy away from us.

If you show yourself to be weak, and easily manipulated/bullied/controlled by the pwBPD in your life, they won't respect you for it.

From what I've seen, being strong and holding boundaries is respected, even though it may well be struggling kicking and screaming respect, if that makes sense. Some r/s get much better when they get used to your boundaries and strength. Others leave in response to that. To my mind, both are good outcomes

And, yes, each time that I promised to never speak to the friend again, I meant it. It wasn't a lie, it was poor impulse control.

Anyway, as you can see from all of this, I completely lacked boundary control. I also gave into my impulses trying to keep both of them happy in their respective roles in my world.

I believe you when you say you meant your promise when you made it, and I understand that you did the best you could.

Looking back AFTER the fact, it is clear that you could have done better. Let me ask you--which way would you go back and do better? Or which way would you try to stand strong in the future?

Would you be strong and refuse contact from your friend to honor your promise?

Would you be strong with your uBPDexgf and tell her that you aren't going to cut your friend out of your life?

The two women put you in a position where you had to choose. What you did was the one to make the woman you were dealing with at the time happy.

If you chose based on YOUR beliefs and YOUR principles, which one would it be? I know which mine would, but I can understand taking either choice.

[cherryblossom]

Thats tough m, the humiliation, pain, shame and terror is horrible - like being suffocated alive -i have to accept i have these feelings to some degree or other to this day and i have various triggers which i haven't quite got my head around or know yet- my exBPD probably felt things to similar degree but has got caugt up in destructive coping mechanisms - having said that my coping mechanisms are pretty destructive as im starting to understand now - putting all my power over to someone else, acting invincible, minimizing my feelings etc... .just because i dont chose denial or substance misuse mayb i project and i know i have primitive defence mechanisms of hypervigilance and withdrawal - im realising just how much care and attention i need to pay myself

[Meili]

If I had it all to do over, knowing what I do now, I would have cut the friend out of my life. Not so much because my x asked/demanded that I do it, but because I made a series of unhealthy choices as a result of not doing so.

I didn't like what I had become. I have always believed that I placed my honor above all else, but I threw that away because of my choice to keep my friend as a safety net and safe place to vent my hurt and frustration that came with my r/s with my x.

When my friend would vent about her r/s with her uNPDbf, I would liment with her about mine. It was an escape from the suffering that I was feeling at the time.

Was that worth my honor? Was that worth my lying to and hiding things from the woman that I loved and wanted to marry? Looking back, no. But, I have better tools at my disposal now, so it's easy for me to say that. At the time, I feel that I did the best that I could.

If given the option for the r/s today, I'd cut the friend out.

[Lilyroze]

If I had it all to do over, knowing what I do now, I would have cut the friend out of my life. Not so much because my x asked/demanded that I do it, but because I made a series of unhealthy choices as a result of not doing so.

I didn't like what I had become. I have always believed that I placed my honor above all else, but I threw that away because of my choice to keep my friend as a safety net and safe place to vent my hurt and frustration that came with my r/s with my x.


Was that worth my honor? Was that worth my lying to and hiding things from the woman that I loved and wanted to marry? Looking back, no. But, I have better tools at my disposal now, so it's easy for me to say that. At the time, I feel that I did the best that I could.

If given the option for the r/s today, I'd cut the friend out.

Thank you Meili,

I was betrayed in one of the worst ways by someone that meant the world to me. Who threw away everything we had for a few " friends". I am not talking a best friend, or long term friends, I am talking online making trouble friends. One of the " friends" was actually in my circle in  a round about way. Though I have stayed out of it all, don't want to know or care. The friend is trying to make so much trouble for the person I cared about, and funny thing they will never know. They probably still admire that "friend", who has ruined so many friendships and relationships, but hers is still in tact to a point... .LOL  

I wish the person in my life had felt the same. It shows you are healthy, mature, and looking within. We all need to do that to see what part we played and not continue on in that role. Sometimes relationships can start anew, or be better, but only if both are willing to admit, and do the inner work necessary.

Reading yours helped me for some reason. I appreciate your sharing. I don't blame you though for trying to have a place to vent with your friend.

In time maybe you and the woman you cared about will each have grown, and learned to start anew. If not you will take the growth onto a new relationship that will be very strong, in love and respect.

Sorry to intrude on your thread, it has been really hard and heartbreaking for me lately. Though I know it is important for me to continue to grow, and move forward. I can't make a person love or respect, they have to have that within.

Got a test result back that is alarming, and I am in Holistic health so don't go with many options. I know I have been healing and getting better everyday, most has been stress. Getting rid of lots of the stress from my stbex will help.( he is trying to bring drama as I write this, and I am not responding or letting bother me nor trying to help him through his chaos right now) So hard without the certain love or support, but do have good family and many friends and special people to help me. It has made me value those, and a few that have really stepped up for me lately even more.

Good luck to you, I love your posts and how insightful you are. Though I am sorry for the reason you are here.   

[cherryblossom]

Thats tough m, the humiliation, pain, shame and terror is horrible - like being suffocated alive -i have to accept i have these feelings to some degree or other to this day and i have various triggers which i haven't quite got my head around or know yet- my exBPD probably felt things to similar degree but has got caugt up in destructive coping mechanisms - having said that my coping mechanisms are pretty destructive as im starting to understand now - putting all my power over to someone else, acting invincible, minimizing my feelings etc... .just because i dont chose denial or substance misuse mayb i project and i know i have primitive defence mechanisms of hypervigilance and withdrawal - im realising just how much care and attention i need to pay myself