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Author Topic: Attractive people get away with more  (Read 2471 times)
Herodias
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« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2016, 08:17:42 PM »

a person you connect with emotionally will seem more attractive.

So true! How many times have any of us looked at one of our exes and wondered, "Geez! What was I thinking?"

Totally true! I was attracted to mine and he made me feel young because he was so much younger than me... .I'm a cougar apparently ,lol Thing is, he left me for some really unattractive girls... .all different ages. The gf at the moment if flat out unattractive. Looks like a witch, I am not the one who said this... .lots and lots of people have told me this.  Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I have found people attractive by their personalities. Maybe that is the difference between men and women, but I have definitely learned that beauty is only skin deep. It's the beauty on the inside that matters. I really don't understand why men think a hot woman makes them look better... .From what I hear from most women, it makes them look like a fool if they aren't of equal attractiveness and age. I know everyone thought I wasn't too bright. I can at least tell you in this case age didn't matter except to him at the end in that I could not be controlled like someone so much younger. I wish people would get over all of this attractiveness crap and realize everyone has good attributes. Of course some people are attracted to certain types. That's what makes the world go round.
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HurtinNW
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« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2016, 11:11:21 PM »

My ex was the golden boy for years... .extremely handsome, charming, witty, the life of the party and pursued for jobs. I don't doubt for a minute that his looks and charm led people to give a pass to behaviors they might not have otherwise tolerated. It's true our culture treats attractive people better.

But now age and his behaviors have caught up to him, and he's no longer the golden boy at all. And he's left with nothing.

On the other hand, I'm considered quite attractive, but I've put my focus on my art, my kids and my work. I've known that looks pass, but integrity grows.

I think there is a lot of cultural pressure on men to have a woman that looks beautiful. I can tell you that as a woman who looks good I want to be valued first for my heart, my kindness and other qualities. I don't want to be a piece of arm candy. Likewise, I don't want to choose a man who is choosing me first for my looks. Which sadly happens. If I get the sense a guy cares more about my looks than my character, he's not going to date me.

I find it confounding when men say they will accept horrid behavior just to have a partner who is, for the moment, good looking, while meanwhile a perfectly wonderful woman might be sitting a few feet away that is a prize. And in ten years, that hottie they are coveting may not be so hot, while the healthier woman may just be aglow with beauty.

So anyhow... .some beautiful people like my ex do get away with more, but in the end they have nothing meaningful. And other beautiful people like me are actually looking for the real deal.   


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bAlex
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« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2016, 11:43:40 PM »

Excerpt
Hi bAlex-

I think you've hit the nail on the head. People are wired to be attracted to particular physical traits. I know for myself that since I fall below the usual standard in terms of looks, my options are limited. When I have been in romantic relationships, it has always come down to deciding between dealing with cheating, raging, etc and being alone. It wasn't until I began to accept the way the dating world works that I was able to feel better about it. Having a romantic relationship is a privilege, not a right. I no more deserve a relationship than I deserve to play professional basketball, although if I was taller a basketball career might be more likely. Just like if I was better looking, a romantic relationship might be more likely.

Well the good news is that you can change your situation, so can I, and I plan to. I'm raising my standards, anyone in my future has to be better than my ex in every way and I won't settle for less. The fact that you attracted someone to your liking in the past should be enough proof that you have what it takes to do it again.

I've attracted people that I like physically, but they had abhorrent personalities. I thought that was the premise of your post, that many people accept poor behavior because of good looks. I'm sorry if I misunderstood.

What are you going to do to change your situation?

Yes that was the point, I didn't mean to confuse you. All I meant was that if your "options are limited", like you said, that you have the ability to change that. You can improve yourself and your life to make yourself more attractive etc.

As to your question, simply to find someone better. Nothing wil change if we sit around and hope it will get better by itself.
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boatman
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« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2016, 03:42:47 AM »

Excerpt
Yes that was the point, I didn't mean to confuse you. All I meant was that if your "options are limited", like you said, that you have the ability to change that. You can improve yourself and your life to make yourself more attractive etc.

I understand what you're saying now. I used to try to convince myself of that, but it only perpetuated my pain. I look the way I look, there's nothing to change. To continue my analogy, I could no more make myself more attractive than I could get myself stretched into a taller person to be a pro basketball player. It is the way it is and what I resist persists.

Excerpt
I find it confounding when men say they will accept horrid behavior just to have a partner who is, for the moment, good looking, while meanwhile a perfectly wonderful woman might be sitting a few feet away that is a prize. And in ten years, that hottie they are coveting may not be so hot, while the healthier woman may just be aglow with beauty.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree. It sounds like you are framing this as a conscious choice, but we are talking about an unconscious biological drive. I'm not bothered by the fact that I'm not a basketball player because I don't have a biological drive to be one. I do have a yearning for an attractive woman, but I lack the resource to have one that also has a stable personality. This creates pain. The more I accept the way things are, the less pain I feel. The more I resist, the more pain I feel.
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« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2016, 03:55:51 AM »

I considered my ex to be beautiful. Since the split, several people have told me that while she is attractive, they are not seeing what I had been seeing.

I have learned since the split that I see beauty as I want to see it. I think of old girlfriends now, two of whom ended the relationship with me and I feel nothing. I’m in contact and friendly with one, no contact with the other. Both, I’d no longer consider good looking at all. I even met up with the lady I was friendly with recently. She is a great person, lovely on the inside but I no longer feel any attraction at all.

My exwBPD – I am finding it very hard to let go of her, but I’m wondering why. Her looks are obvious, but when I think of it, when she wasn’t dressed up, she was pretty plain and average. She had an ability to make herself beautiful but then if we went out there was always drama. If she drank too much she would say her drink was spiked. There could be a row, anything. So where was the beauty there? I do think a lot of it is down to the bond I saw form between her & our son, it was lovely. But she tried to stop me having a bond with him while we were together, so again, I’m challenging myself to ask where was the beauty there. Finally, we went through pregnancies together and simply put, she became a monster each time. I recall the first one, she wouldn’t let me attend a scan. I left her a voicemail, crying, begging to go to it and she phoned me 10 minutes later laughing, mimicking my voice and saying if I tried to attend she would call the Police. Again, where is the beauty there?

So while I do think she was/is gorgeous and at the moment I am thinking I won’t meet anyone as beautiful again, I do think that challenging my thinking is working as I am looking inside the model I thought I had and seeing what was actually there.

And just like what was posted above, next time around, I’d like someone who I value for their heart first and then looks will be a bonus because for 8 years I chose someone who I thought was stunningly beautiful, but had a very ugly trait inside – the ability to hurt so many people without remorse.

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bAlex
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« Reply #35 on: June 22, 2016, 04:19:30 AM »

My ex was the golden boy for years... .extremely handsome, charming, witty, the life of the party and pursued for jobs. I don't doubt for a minute that his looks and charm led people to give a pass to behaviors they might not have otherwise tolerated. It's true our culture treats attractive people better.

But now age and his behaviors have caught up to him, and he's no longer the golden boy at all. And he's left with nothing.

On the other hand, I'm considered quite attractive, but I've put my focus on my art, my kids and my work. I've known that looks pass, but integrity grows.

I think there is a lot of cultural pressure on men to have a woman that looks beautiful. I can tell you that as a woman who looks good I want to be valued first for my heart, my kindness and other qualities. I don't want to be a piece of arm candy. Likewise, I don't want to choose a man who is choosing me first for my looks. Which sadly happens. If I get the sense a guy cares more about my looks than my character, he's not going to date me.

I find it confounding when men say they will accept horrid behavior just to have a partner who is, for the moment, good looking, while meanwhile a perfectly wonderful woman might be sitting a few feet away that is a prize. And in ten years, that hottie they are coveting may not be so hot, while the healthier woman may just be aglow with beauty.

So anyhow... .some beautiful people like my ex do get away with more, but in the end they have nothing meaningful. And other beautiful people like me are actually looking for the real deal.   

There's also a lot of cultural pressure on women to look good. They themselves know it plays an important role in attracting the best possible mate. I mean what would a guy prefer, a woman who bathes and does the bear minimum? or one that's healthy, in shape, looks after herself, pays attention to hair, makeup, hygiene etc? It's a no-brainer.

If I think about some girls I've met, my ex included, developing integrity etc was pretty far down the list. I think it's great that you don't seem to think that way though.

They much rather try to maximise their sex appeal. Plus, they get better treatment from most people so they don't really feel the need to improve themselves in other areas. If they're attractive enough their options of men and new friends etc are basically limitless, so why bother?

I agree, the looks won't last forever and perhaps then people won't feel the need to put up with bad behaviour.

I'm not saying looks is the only thing that matters, or that you should date someone for that reason alone, but for guys, it's usually the first thing that attracts us to a woman. And despite bad behaviour, some guys might think it's a valid reason to stay in a otherwise toxic relationship. We placed value on her beauty, and some even adopted the disempowering belief that "she's the best I can get, because she's the most beautiful gf up to now".

To put it another way, improving yourself and making yourself more attractive, thereby being able to attract beautiful women into your orbit and having more options available to you should stop that belief right in its tracks. I think that scarcity mentality isn't healthy for detachment either.
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bAlex
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« Reply #36 on: June 22, 2016, 04:30:02 AM »

Excerpt
Yes that was the point, I didn't mean to confuse you. All I meant was that if your "options are limited", like you said, that you have the ability to change that. You can improve yourself and your life to make yourself more attractive etc.

I understand what you're saying now. I used to try to convince myself of that, but it only perpetuated my pain. I look the way I look, there's nothing to change. To continue my analogy, I could no more make myself more attractive than I could get myself stretched into a taller person to be a pro basketball player. It is the way it is and what I resist persists.

Excerpt
I find it confounding when men say they will accept horrid behavior just to have a partner who is, for the moment, good looking, while meanwhile a perfectly wonderful woman might be sitting a few feet away that is a prize. And in ten years, that hottie they are coveting may not be so hot, while the healthier woman may just be aglow with beauty.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree. It sounds like you are framing this as a conscious choice, but we are talking about an unconscious biological drive. I'm not bothered by the fact that I'm not a basketball player because I don't have a biological drive to be one. I do have a yearning for an attractive woman, but I lack the resource to have one that also has a stable personality. This creates pain. The more I accept the way things are, the less pain I feel. The more I resist, the more pain I feel.

That sounds a lot like learned helplessness. Dude, there are many things you can do to make yourself more attractive as a man. I think you're placing too much emphasis on your physical looks, and quite frankly it's not that important to women at all.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen attractive women with average looking guys. My ex manager for example always had beautiful women coming over, but the guy was in no way good looking, overweight too. He did however have a great deal of confidence, charm, knew how to create a fun time, had lots of friends, people respected him, he was good socially etc. Best part is he wasn't always like that, he used to never get dates.

Some of those things are things you can learn, if he could do it, why would you believe that you can't?
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Moselle
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« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2016, 05:35:47 AM »

I've known that looks pass, but integrity grows.

I can tell you that as a woman who looks good I want to be valued first for my heart, my kindness and other qualities.  

HurtinNW, I like the way you frame this. Everyone is attracted initially to beautiful people. I think it is an instinctive and primal mating instinct to improve the gene pool. It is natural selection. and it is this initial attraction which does indeed lead to attractive people getting away with more.

But we are not animals, we are separated from animals by our ability to reason and make decisions on selecting a partner that is not just governed by instinct.

After that initial attraction, we look for things like maturity, agreeableness, kindness, honesty and integrity, respect, empathy, affection and intimacy, and sense of humour to name a few.

Now here I believe is the interesting bit. No-one is the perfect mate, and we set about making trade-offs of these things in terms of what we will and won't accept based on one more, but subconscious criterion - self esteem. Our self esteem.

We can only accept a level of love from a partner which matches our self esteem. Love us more than our self worth, we feel unworthy and we set about sabotaging the relationship. Love us less than our self worth, we feel unappreciated, and we sabotage the relationship.

Therefore, all other choices aside including attractiveness, we select someone with a similar level of self worth or esteem.

And if it's relationship happiness we are after, it stands to reason that we need to learn how to accept, love and respect ourselves, so that when the attractive person comes along we will be able to accept and return their love, assuming they have done more with their lives than rely on their good looks to make their way through life.

If we, including myself entered into a long term relationship with a Borderline, it's likely that our self esteem needs a bit of work. The good news is that there are things we can do about that.

Although we can fine tune it a bit, there's not alot we can do about our external appearance. (Hollywood plastic surgeons aside Smiling (click to insert in post))




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boatman
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« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2016, 09:10:16 AM »

Excerpt
That sounds a lot like learned helplessness. Dude, there are many things you can do to make yourself more attractive as a man. I think you're placing too much emphasis on your physical looks, and quite frankly it's not that important to women at all.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen attractive women with average looking guys. My ex manager for example always had beautiful women coming over, but the guy was in no way good looking, overweight too. He did however have a great deal of confidence, charm, knew how to create a fun time, had lots of friends, people respected him, he was good socially etc. Best part is he wasn't always like that, he used to never get dates.

Some of those things are things you can learn, if he could do it, why would you believe that you can't?

Excerpt
Now here I believe is the interesting bit. No-one is the perfect mate, and we set about making trade-offs of these things in terms of what we will and won't accept based on one more, but subconscious criterion - self esteem. Our self esteem.

We can only accept a level of love from a partner which matches our self esteem. Love us more than our self worth, we feel unworthy and we set about sabotaging the relationship. Love us less than our self worth, we feel unappreciated, and we sabotage the relationship.

Therefore, all other choices aside including attractiveness, we select someone with a similar level of self worth or esteem.

I could no more "believe" that I could change my attractiveness than I could believe I could change the color of the sky. Facts are facts.

An important point for me here is that this has nothing to do with self esteem. This is a topic for another thread but I think that being stuck within the duality of "high self esteem" vs. "low self esteem" is a psychological trap that causes pain. So, I don't link attractiveness and self esteem together, just like I don't link the color of the sky and self esteem together. Once the link is made in one's mind between self esteem and attractiveness, then there's a strong psychological motivation to deny the role that physical characteristics play.
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Meili
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« Reply #39 on: June 22, 2016, 09:32:38 AM »

I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree. It sounds like you are framing this as a conscious choice, but we are talking about an unconscious biological drive. I'm not bothered by the fact that I'm not a basketball player because I don't have a biological drive to be one. I do have a yearning for an attractive woman, but I lack the resource to have one that also has a stable personality. This creates pain. The more I accept the way things are, the less pain I feel. The more I resist, the more pain I feel.

Here's the thing boatman, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are any number of examples of people who are otherwise unattractive from a purely aesthetic standpoint who are viewed as beautiful. Take Tom Cruise for example. He's short, has a big nose and crooked teeth. Yet, millions of women swoon over him. Johnny Depp, who is skinny and has a very feminine facial structure... .still considered extremely attractive. Patrick Stewart, bald with a giant nose and only average physique, yet he was voted the Sexiest Man Alive one year.

As seenr pointed out:

I considered my ex to be beautiful. Since the split, several people have told me that while she is attractive, they are not seeing what I had been seeing.

Others don't find his ex as attractive as he does. It doesn't matter what others think, just what he thinks. I can say the exact same thing about my x. I find her extremely beautiful, but others don't; including her! Her constantly reminding me that she doesn't believe that she's attractive made me question whether or not she is and caused me to start looking for flaws. The more that I looked, the more apparent they became. But, I still find her beautiful.

So, just like we cannot actually experience love until we can love ourselves; it is difficult for others to find us attractive if we don't find ourselves attractive. One thing that I do know is that women find confidence attractive in men. Men are more visual creatures than women, so we look more at the exterior whereas women look more at what's inside. How many times have you walked down the street and wondered how that guy got such a hot girl?

Sorry for the hi-jack. Back to the original topic now.
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bAlex
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« Reply #40 on: June 22, 2016, 09:48:38 AM »

Excerpt
That sounds a lot like learned helplessness. Dude, there are many things you can do to make yourself more attractive as a man. I think you're placing too much emphasis on your physical looks, and quite frankly it's not that important to women at all.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen attractive women with average looking guys. My ex manager for example always had beautiful women coming over, but the guy was in no way good looking, overweight too. He did however have a great deal of confidence, charm, knew how to create a fun time, had lots of friends, people respected him, he was good socially etc. Best part is he wasn't always like that, he used to never get dates.

Some of those things are things you can learn, if he could do it, why would you believe that you can't?

Excerpt
Now here I believe is the interesting bit. No-one is the perfect mate, and we set about making trade-offs of these things in terms of what we will and won't accept based on one more, but subconscious criterion - self esteem. Our self esteem.

We can only accept a level of love from a partner which matches our self esteem. Love us more than our self worth, we feel unworthy and we set about sabotaging the relationship. Love us less than our self worth, we feel unappreciated, and we sabotage the relationship.

Therefore, all other choices aside including attractiveness, we select someone with a similar level of self worth or esteem.

I could no more "believe" that I could change my attractiveness than I could believe I could change the color of the sky. Facts are facts.

An important point for me here is that this has nothing to do with self esteem. This is a topic for another thread but I think that being stuck within the duality of "high self esteem" vs. "low self esteem" is a psychological trap that causes pain. So, I don't link attractiveness and self esteem together, just like I don't link the color of the sky and self esteem together. Once the link is made in one's mind between self esteem and attractiveness, then there's a strong psychological motivation to deny the role that physical characteristics play.

Why do you believe that? and what are the facts?

Ok, so the skinny guy who built 20kg solid muscle didn't improve his attractiveness?

The fat guy that got ripped doesn't look better?

The guy that always sat behind his computer and didn't have any friends didn't seem more attractive when he made friends, got out of the house, and did things that are more adventurous?

Poorly dressed vs style?

Bad hygiene vs well groomed with good hygiene?

Bad body language and posture vs good posture and good body language?

Bitter vs fun?

Fleeting eye contact vs strong eye contact?

Being a push-over vs having strong boundaries?

Scared vs confident and brave?

There's always something you can improve, and improvement is attractive. Improvement can mean the difference between a crappy life and an amazing, exciting, attractive life that people want to be a part of.
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bAlex
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« Reply #41 on: June 22, 2016, 09:53:25 AM »

I understand what you're saying, but I don't agree. It sounds like you are framing this as a conscious choice, but we are talking about an unconscious biological drive. I'm not bothered by the fact that I'm not a basketball player because I don't have a biological drive to be one. I do have a yearning for an attractive woman, but I lack the resource to have one that also has a stable personality. This creates pain. The more I accept the way things are, the less pain I feel. The more I resist, the more pain I feel.

Here's the thing boatman, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are any number of examples of people who are otherwise unattractive from a purely aesthetic standpoint who are viewed as beautiful. Take Tom Cruise for example. He's short, has a big nose and crooked teeth. Yet, millions of women swoon over him. Johnny Depp, who is skinny and has a very feminine facial structure... .still considered extremely attractive. Patrick Stewart, bald with a giant nose and only average physique, yet he was voted the Sexiest Man Alive one year.

As seenr pointed out:

I considered my ex to be beautiful. Since the split, several people have told me that while she is attractive, they are not seeing what I had been seeing.

Others don't find his ex as attractive as he does. It doesn't matter what others think, just what he thinks. I can say the exact same thing about my x. I find her extremely beautiful, but others don't; including her! Her constantly reminding me that she doesn't believe that she's attractive made me question whether or not she is and caused me to start looking for flaws. The more that I looked, the more apparent they became. But, I still find her beautiful.

So, just like we cannot actually experience love until we can love ourselves; it is difficult for others to find us attractive if we don't find ourselves attractive. One thing that I do know is that women find confidence attractive in men. Men are more visual creatures than women, so we look more at the exterior whereas women look more at what's inside. How many times have you walked down the street and wondered how that guy got such a hot girl?

Sorry for the hi-jack. Back to the original topic now.

Good point!
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Moselle
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« Reply #42 on: June 22, 2016, 10:32:40 AM »

An important point for me here is that this has nothing to do with self esteem. This is a topic for another thread but I think that being stuck within the duality of "high self esteem" vs. "low self esteem" is a psychological trap that causes pain. So, I don't link attractiveness and self esteem together, just like I don't link the color of the sky and self esteem together. Once the link is made in one's mind between self esteem and attractiveness, then there's a strong psychological motivation to deny the role that physical characteristics play.

If a pair of beautiful women (indentical twins) approached you. One with a high level of self confidence, self worth and self respect, the other with low confidence, low self worth and no self respect. Which would you find more attractive?
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« Reply #43 on: June 22, 2016, 10:39:21 AM »

Hi bAlex-

I understand the way in which you are looking at this. It sounds like you have correlated value and self worth with physical traits, many of which you mentioned. I am not correlating value with physical attractiveness, I am merely stating a fact of nature. The fact that gravity holds objects to the ground is an objective fact of nature. The fact that physical attractiveness dictates dating and romantic relationships is also an objective fact of nature. The only value that I attribute to gravity is that it allows us to function as human beings. It has no intrinsic value beyond that. The only value I attribute to physical attractiveness is that it drives humans to perpetuate the species. I attribute no value to it beyond that. Denying its effect on dating would be like denying gravity's effect on walking. Also, much like gravity keeps humans from flying unassisted, a lack of physical attractiveness keeps some humans from having romantic relationships. The facts that I can't take off into the air and that I don't have the looks to attract healthy women don't dictate that I have less worth or a "crappy life". They are simply facts.

When I read your first post I thought that you were framing all of this in a similar way. I apologize for misunderstanding.

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« Reply #44 on: June 22, 2016, 10:49:48 AM »

The fact that physical attractiveness dictates dating and romantic relationships is also an objective fact of nature.

I won't get into a debate about gravity, but the above-statement is only partially true. You seem to be discounting the fact that what one person finds physically attractive is physically attractive to the next. You are also wholly ignoring that fact that physical attraction only plays a part, and a small part at that, in overall attractiveness.

The reality of all of this, and what it appears that several of us are trying to get you to see, is that how you view yourself is actually the deciding factor.

While I won't dispute that people who are found to be attractive by someone else have an advantage in the areas that the findee has influence, I will dispute that such a person has an advantage if they lack all of the non-physical qualities in any other area. By this I mean that a person can be the most physically attractive person on the planet, but if that person has an abrasive personality, a completely, mentally healthy person won't put up with the abrasion for long.

So, while a sex for the sake of sex argument might be made for your view on physical attractiveness, a r/s is a completely different story.
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« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2016, 11:08:12 AM »

Hi Meili-

I will have to start another topic on my views on self esteem, self worth, etc. I talked about it a little bit here but I don't want to hijack bAlex's thread anymore than I already have. I had originally set out to agree with him but I misunderstood what he was actually saying.

I do understand what some people have said about self esteem and how they think it relates to dating. I just don't agree. I don't view the world or people in terms of self esteem/self worth.

I do agree that abrasive personalities can be problematic, that's what brought me to this site in the first place.
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« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2016, 11:18:31 AM »

But, the problem is that attractiveness encompasses more than just the physical. You can't separate the the physical from the non-physical when you look at the subject.

Kat Dennings can be used as an example here. In her US sitcom "Two Broke Girls" she portrays a confident, sexy woman. In the movie "Thor" she plays a meek, unattractive, hardly noticeable female. The same person exhibiting two different sets of personality traits. One was attractive, the other was not.
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« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2016, 11:32:08 AM »

If a pair of beautiful women (indentical twins) approached you. One with a high level of self confidence, self worth and self respect, the other with low confidence, low self worth and no self respect. Which would you find more attractive?

In all honesty, I'd probably go for the one with low self worth.  I like the shy, quiet type.
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« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2016, 11:34:41 AM »

When viewed ex post facto, beyond mere surface appearance--it is the abdication of self-respect, in exchange for twisted beauty--that sticks in one's craw. When smooth skin, shimmering hair and undulating curves (or whatever the associated masculine traits are) co-opt free will subsuming our better judgment. That paradigm becomes the transactional communicative relational status quo--and may feel like some Faustian bargain.

Yet, the notion of being seduced to ruin--such as with the Sirens of old--is an allegorical tale of the most ancient order. For Persephone, split her time between the earthly world and the underworld. Still, there are lessons to be learned.

To sacrifice one's esteem upon the terrible beauty of an abusive altar is never beneficial--yet disordered relational circumstances with an untreated pwBPD often are a fait accompli. Consequently, there will be an ongoing tension or storm, that requires remedial attention so that a functional livable balance may be struck. For without that--chaos reigns. And progress is a joint venture. Both parties share in the responsibility to improve self-awareness and break destructive cycles which inhibit building a functional relationship.

So we may lament how we were charmed beyond reason--tolerating abuse due to their fine aesthetics. Yet, isn't that merely the skin deep analysis, while the reality is that two discordant people crashed into each other--without collaborating upon a plan for repair.

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« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2016, 11:37:49 AM »

Excerpt
But, the problem is that attractiveness encompasses more than just the physical. You can't separate the the physical from the non-physical when you look at the subject.

I agree that one can be attracted to non physical traits of another person, but that doesn't change the effect that physical characteristics have on dating. It is the primary driving force. If the force of gravity is suddenly suspended, no amount of self love will allow me to walk on the ground. I can try to convince myself I look better than I do until the end of time, but it doesn't change the way I actually look.
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« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2016, 11:45:01 AM »

I agree that one can be attracted to non physical traits of another person, but that doesn't change the effect that physical characteristics have on dating. It is the primary driving force. If the force of gravity is suddenly suspended, no amount of self love will allow me to walk on the ground. I can try to convince myself I look better than I do until the end of time, but it doesn't change the way I actually look.

Fine, we can play with your gravity analogy... .

So, pray tell, what is gravity without the massive object that creates the attraction in the first place? The answer: Nothing. Gravity cannot exist without mass; at least it would be undetectable. Gravity would cease to have any effect or meaning.
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« Reply #51 on: June 22, 2016, 11:58:17 AM »

Excerpt
Fine, we can play with your gravity analogy... .

So, pray tell, what is gravity without the massive object that creates the attraction in the first place? The answer: Nothing. Gravity cannot exist without mass; at least it would be undetectable. Gravity would cease to have any effect or meaning.

I apologize, but I'm not sure what you mean.
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« Reply #52 on: June 22, 2016, 12:08:40 PM »

Hi boatman,

My original point was, like the topic suggests, that we can put up with certain behaviours that would otherwise be unacceptable simply because we find the person attractive. If we had more attractive options we wouldn't put up with that behaviour, and we wouldn't get stuck on the idea that we'll never find anyone as attractive as our ex's.

I believe a quick way to fix this way of thinking is simply to find a new girl that you find more attractive and date her. Prove yourself wrong, prove you can, do what you must to make better and more options available to you. Obviously compatability and all the rest is still important... .

Now, if I understand you correctly, you say that some guys are doomed for life to have low quality partners, because they are not as good looking?

What you need to understand is that women don't place such high value on an man's looks than men do on a woman's looks.

Men are more visual, women are not.

It was mentioned previously that a man's looks is only a small part of his overall attractiveness.

Many other things, some of which I already mentioned, can make a man attractive. eg. status, confidence, charm etc. inspite of him being physically attractive or not.

Many of these things we actually have control over. They can be adopted, attained, and improved. It is possible to make yourself more attractive in that sense, and in the end it will serve you better in attracting partners than just having good looks.
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« Reply #53 on: June 22, 2016, 12:14:38 PM »

In answer to the OP... .I do understand this, because I find my ex breathtakingly beautiful. However, a couple of things I would counter this with. 1) the feeling is mutual. I am not saying I am a model or breathtakingly beautiful, but I'm not going to tell you I'm a plain Jane either. I have many many examples in texts and messages from him when he made it clear how attracted he is/was to me. However, and I think this is more pertinent... .2) I wouldn't go out with someone I wasn't physically attracted to in the first place, to be totally honest. I don't mean someone who looks like a model or is classically good looking, but someone I personally am attracted to. So the idea that 'attractive people get away with more' is slightly redundant as I have only really selected partners I have some degree of attraction to at least. Granted, this one is particularly beautiful when he's not looking like a dishevelled drunken tramp... .but the physical attraction is so so very strong between us, it's been like the proverbial fireworks.  What I'm trying to say is that I wouldn't have an 'unattractive' partner treat me like this, because I wouldn't have gone out with someone I wasn't attracted to in the first place. He is probably the MOST (or one of the most) attractive I've ever had, but I'm not sure how relevant that is in regards to how he has treated me.

Physical attraction is incredibly important, it's primeval and it's a basic animal thing. It has to be there for me. But I didn't fall in love with his looks... .I fell in love with the whole package, that's for sure.
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« Reply #54 on: June 22, 2016, 12:19:26 PM »

What you need to understand is that women don't place such high value on an man's looks than men do on a woman's looks.

Men are more visual, women are not.

It was mentioned previously that a man's looks is only a small part of his overall attractiveness.

Many other things, some of which I already mentioned, can make a man attractive. eg. status, confidence, charm etc. inspite of him being physically attractive or not.

Sorry... .got to disagree with this. I am a woman. Yes, as I just said above, I fell in love with the whole package, but don't kid yourselves that women 'aren't visual'. We most certainly are. When my ex kisses me, my legs quite literally go wobbly and almost buckle under me. That was from the get go and it was do with chemistry... .a large part of which was physical attraction.  Looks most certainly do matter, and I couldn't care less if my partner is someone that OTHERS find attractive, it's about whether I do. It's not shallow, it's animal instinct.
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« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2016, 12:25:47 PM »

Hi bAlex-

Excerpt
My original point was, like the topic suggests, that we can put up with certain behaviours that would otherwise be unacceptable simply because we find the person attractive.

This is what I was originally trying to agree with.  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

In terms of the other points you made, I respect your opinions but I have very different views, which is okay.



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« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2016, 12:27:03 PM »

Staff only

This thread has reached its post limit and is now locked.

Feel free to start a new topic to continue the discussion if needed.
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