The Next Piece of the Puzzle

[bunny4523]

But, now realizing everything that I have learned and seen, I doubt that she would ever be able to provide me with the level of security that I need. More importantly, I am quite sure that she would not even be willing to try.

Meili,

Please try to remember this when you are missing her and the good times.  Remember how bad the bad felt too.  How alone, how insecure, how attacked, how confused and how lost you felt.  It overwhelms the good they give because it is such a deep hurt/betrayal.  The pendulum swings to both extremes unfortunately with BPD.  There are relationships out there that don't have this dynamic, where you can talk to one another and love one another openly. Yes you will still get your feelings hurt but your partner will feel compassion and comfort you in those times.  You've come a long way and seem to be doing a great job and working through this difficult situation-

Wishing you the best,
Bunny   

[Meili]

Thank you Bunny. I do try to remember the bad.

There is another dynamic to my r/s that adds to the confusion; my C-PTSD. Some of the things that I remember my x did, she may not have actually done. Don't get me wrong, there are numerous things that I cannot deny happened.  But, I get stuck in what was her mess, and what was mine? I'm working on mine though.

The fact remains that I need someone who I feel secure with. That's going to take someone who is willing to understand what I go through, much like our trying to understand what pwBPD experience. That's going to be really hard for me to find. Because I don't trust people, it's going to be even harder.

This all goes back to my longing for my x, she made me feel comfortable. She met my basic survival needs. That was huge for me. But, she never tried to understand the other part of it.

[Meili]

Yet another sleepless night. It isn't because I'm ruminating or having obsessive thoughts about my x that I cannot sleep. It's because of all of the repressed emotions that my r/s with her has brought to the surface. Emotions that I do not remember ever feeling before. Many of which I cannot describe or name because I do not actually understand them.

I realize that may sound strange, but when you have never known anything but trauma, you tend to live trauma. I'm so tried of living in trauma... .So very tired... .

I tend to believe that look at my x the way that most here look at theirs, but with a twist. It seems that most, when the r/s is over, believe that they will never find the feelings of love that they feel for their ex in another person. That somehow their ex is the only person on the planet able to illicit those types of feelings. I have that same problem, but it's the times when I actually felt safe with her that I think that I'll never find again. Times like when she would be cooking and just glance at me and smile. Or like when we would go to bed at night and I would just hold her; everything was calm and serene. Even when she was raging, I could tell that our r/s was the most important thing in the world to her at that moment and she was willing to do anything and everything to hold onto it. Strangely, that made me feel safe.

It strikes me as odd that by depersonalizing and disassociating the chaos, I have actually developed deeper feelings for my x. It has made the love I feel grow stronger rather than allowing it to dissipate. When I truly believed that she disliked me, it was easier to walk away. What happened after I reached out to her changed that belief, and has made it increasingly difficult to give up how safe, warm, and loved I felt. It's even harder to force myself to walk away this time as a result. I simply do not want to do it.

This has put me in a position that is really unique to me. I was able to walk away before because I truly believed that it was the best thing for her. What I ultimately wanted didn't matter to me. Yes, I wanted my pain to stop, so that helped; but it was to protect her that caused me to walk. Since I've been focusing on me, my wants, my needs, and my desires, that has all changed. It is no longer about protecting her. It's about being selfish and giving up the hope because I have wants, needs, and desires for my life. I want her to be part of that, but my wants do not control her decisions.

I do realize that I started this with comments about not ruminating and obsessing about her and the r/s, and then proceeded to write a lot about her and the r/s. The thing is, it really is about me, what I want for myself and how I feel. I am just now learning to express those things so it may be coming across as being about something else.

So, now I'm left with the choice: I ether fully commit to working to starting a new r/s with her and face all the possible pains that come with that, or I walk away and face all of the possible pains that come with that. Either way, I hurt someone that I care about. Either way, I suffer. Either way, I will ultimately end up a healthier, happier person as a result because I have to work through my stuff. It's truly a horrible position to be in.

I honestly just want the pain of indecision to end. It will at some point. I has to.

[Sadly]

Meili
This is such a strange coincidence. As you know I have been struggling this week. I was laid in my bed about an hour ago and from nowhere, from 4o odd years ago, a conversation I had with my dad popped up. He was a gentle wise man and had no idea what his own father had done to his sisters and much later me, I think that would have killed him. Anyway, I was crying and asking him, what's wrong with me dad, why do I keep being hurt by men, why do I keep letting this happen. And he answered gently, " because you shrink from hurting people sweetheart and in that process hurt them even more ". I'm not sure where I am going with this, it's too new but does it strike any chords with you?

Love Sadly x

[Meili]

Yes, that resonates with me Sadly. I do just that.

For me, there are several things at play. The most prevalent one is my not wanting to hurt people so that, in turn, I don't have to experience rejection. As long as everyone is happy, no one is rejecting me; or so my subconscious thinks.  It is a lot like spinning plates on poles in a minefield however. Trying to dance around the mines to keep the plates spinning, all the while hoping that none of the plates fall and trigger a mine. Inevitably, that's what happens though and a mine explodes.

Also, because of FOO issues, my subconscious thinks that I'm not allowed to do things that upset people because that only leads to causing me pain.

What's interesting is that in my r/s with my x, I openly did things that caused her pain (maintained the friendship with my friend). I was in pure survival mode at that point though. I was running on autopilot. I maintained the friendship because it was the only place that consistently felt safe for me. My x had pulled so far away from me that she showed little to no love or affection for me. I had told her that I felt like we were a couple on paper only. Rather than trying to give me what I needed, she pushed harder.

To be fair, there was a two week period where my x was the most perfect, loving woman. She went out of her way to make me feel safe, secure, and loved. I cut the friend out of my life immediately. During couples counseling, our counselor asked what had been done differently. I commented on my x's actions. When asked what I had done differently, I froze. I didn't want to bring up the friend at all, so I said, "nothing." I actually said that I had done nothing differently during that two week period of bliss. My x was mortified. It hurt her deeply. I was trying to avoid hurting her, and did just that.

Then, when given the chance to reconcile recently, I tried something different. I pushed away the friend. I stopped worrying about hurting others, and started to look at what I really want and what I'm willing to do to get it. That almost worked. When my x told me that she was seeing someone, I pulled the friend back because I needed to feel safe. And, that is the end of that story. I haven't heard much from my x since. Just that she's disappointed. Now I have NC with her. That's fine. I want her to be happy after all.

So, that was a bit of a ramble that got off topic. Sorry. I'm still trying to reconcile all of my feelings on the matter. I know that I need to figure out how to self-soothe and stop hurting people. I'm trying to work out how to be alone and not rely on my friend. It would be easy if I had my x to talk to, but I don't and if she were ever inclined to try to reconcile again, she won't be the one to make the first move.

[bunny4523]

Mieli,

Take one emotion at a time.  You have been through alot and you have alot of dysfunctional emotional needs because of your past but you also have realistic/healthy needs... .it takes time to decipher through them.  Not sure if I mentioned it to you before but your statement "but it's the times when I actually felt safe with her that I think that I'll never find again."  You've got to keep this in perspective.  you clearly say "the times" meaning that it wasn't consistent.  You will feel this again with someone else and it will be ALL OF THE TIME.  I promise you that it is out there.  You should ALWAYS feel safe with your partner.  Your partner should be your go to person when life gets rough.  I think this is a healthy expectation.

You also mentioned "even when she was raging, I could tell that our r/s was the most important thing to her... ."  This is one that concerns me.  When someone is "raging" at you... .they are NOT demonstrating that this r/s is the most important thing to them.  This is similar to the dynamic between an abusive husband and abused wife.  Her thoughts are, "you don't understand, he loves me so much that it just makes him crazy when he thinks he is going to lose me and he can't control himself."  NO NO NO NO... .this is a connection that I don't feel is healthy.  Both the abuser and abused relate on this "deep" level of closeness because both are breaking boundaries so they have this unique bond that most can't identify with so it seems even more special.  

This is an exageration but still just to elaborate on the point... .it's like 2 people that commit crimes together.  They feel a special bond with one another because they share and understand the need of the other.  

When you talk about when she dislikes you, it makes it easier, I totally get that.  When she is open and wanting to work things out, it is harder to say no I don't want to.  I used to be like that and my therapist categorized it as Co-dependent because I was so willing to "take one for the team" alot of the time.  Trying to save others all the time or taking care of them instead of myself.  

You are right, you have a choice to make.  Hurting someone you care about is nothing to feel guilty about... .you can have compassion for their pain but to not make a decision that is best for you to not hurt someone else is a no no.  If you start that, where does it end?  For example, she cheats on you so you break up with her... .she is hurt so you take her back.  :)on't be mean, don't deliberately inflict pain but if taking care of yourself hurts someone else so deeply then something is off here.

I understand your last statment and the feelings associated with committing or walking away but I want you to think about each one in detail.  Play it like a story in your head.  One should offer you relief, less anxiety.  

You might be able to handle a relationship with a BPD so I want you to feel free to make that choice.  But how will you feel if you give it another try and you are in this exact same place 2 months from now?  How much of this can you really handle?  That is your call to make and it is ok to give it one last hoo raw.  

You can have the love you seek without all the drama, just remember that.  So if you decide to give things another try and it doesn't work out... .know that you can find that feeling and it will be even better and stronger when it is with someone healthy because it will grow deeper daily instead of being to tore down daily.

Take care Meili and whatever decision you make, put in 100%.  

Bunny

  

 

[bunny4523]

To be fair, there was a two week period where my x was the most perfect, loving woman. She went out of her way to make me feel safe, secure, and loved. I cut the friend out of my life immediately. During couples counseling, our counselor asked what had been done differently. I commented on my x's actions. When asked what I had done differently, I froze. I didn't want to bring up the friend at all, so I said, "nothing." I actually said that I had done nothing differently during that two week period of bliss. My x was mortified. It hurt her deeply. I was trying to avoid hurting her, and did just that.

Honey... .anyone can be perfectly loving for 2 weeks. Your giving her too much credit.  Trying to be the best you can be is a daily struggle for all of us.  2 weeks?  that's a fail... .   The point I'm trying to get to is that even when she is upset or you two have a problem or she is mad... .she can still be loving as she expresses this to you.  Her getting hurt does not justify her raging or being mean. This is not something you did that "ruined" it.  Her feelings just are but her behavior/response is a CHOICE. 
You should be able to describe your partner as "loving" even in the most stressful traumatic times.  Even if we have a moment that we snap at our partner and she says, "whoa where did that come from?." A healthy and loving response is "I am so sorry, I'm stressed and didn't mean to respond to you like that. I love you followed with hugs and kisses.  I know you aren't used to this... .it sounds like you are more used to being punished when you hurt someone.  It just takes time to start thinking differently. 

By the way, how do you fight?  When you get mad, do you yell, say mean things, walk away, get quiet?  Just curious how you cope.

Bunny
 

[Meili]

Thank you for your responses Bunny, the truly do mean a lot to me. I've needed "a shoulder to cry on" lately and no one in my world understands. No one can see why I don't just walk away. I know that the people here get it though.

My T agrees with you btw. She told me that I show all of the signs of "battered woman syndrome." Your response to my comment about my x raging is spot on. I do look at it as "if she didn't love me so much, she wouldn't be doing this." When she does it, I completely shut down emotionally and just allow her to go as I stubbornly maintain my position of "it's over." And, then, when we've both cooled down, I go right back. This time, she's changed that dynamic and won't take me back.

I also completely agree with you about the "two weeks" and "times feeling safe" parts. It should always be that way. That was actually one of the major issues that I had with the r/s. I would stand there telling her that I needed to feel safe with her and she'd just keep going down the rabbit hole.

I keep playing out the staying/leaving scenarios in my head. Both create anxiety. One is familiar, the other is not. One provides at least moments of serenity, the other does not. One is fueled by addiction, the other is not. The problem is that I cannot get unstuck. The only way that appears to unstick me is to try yet again to make things work with her. I don't mean that to sound as trite as it does btw. It is a true desire to make things work because she is the person that I want to grow old with. Again, my T points to the battered woman syndrome when I make comments like that to her.

As for how I fight. Well, that changed over the course of the r/s. In the beginning, I was very calm, and would only be passive aggressive. Toward the end, I was angry, but I never complained if she didn't do it first. One of the things that she complained about with me was that every time we'd get into a fight (meaning she'd start one), I would turn it around back on her and complain about a whole list of things that I had not mentioned previously. I admit that I did that. At the end, all the calm was gone and I'd yell and defend myself out of anger. I would completely stop listening to what she was trying to tell me and make it about how I felt. I JADEd a lot.

[Meili]

I'm struggling a bit today as I regain my detachment. I'm once again mourning the loss of what could have been. Tomorrow will be 7 days since my last communication with my x. She's stopped contacting me, and I've stopped contacting her. There was no discussion about it, it's just what has happened. Since she has accused me of push/pull and sucking her back in, I'm going to avoid doing that.

It's been really hard not to reach out to her and remind her that I'm still here if she wants me. I just assume that she knows and that she doesn't want me and keep the focus on myself and my improvements.

I had an interesting thing happen today. I was chatting online with a friend about the changes in my life. I was trying to explain to her why I "know" that my x won't try to recycle. But, I accidentally sent that message to the friend who "created" the distrust my x feels for me. All along, this friend has just been my friend. She's been supportive of everything. She's listened to my woes, my struggle, my trials. She's encouraged my attempts at reconciliation. She's scoffed at my x's accusations that my friend wanted a romantic relationship with me. She's been my best friend. But, this morning the message hurt her. She told me that she can't talk to me.

I suppose that there is some good in this though. At least now she won't have to be an issue for my x if she ever decides that she wants to come back.

[Meili]

Well, time to reset the NC clock. She contacted me this morning because she needed information about an event she's putting together. She could have gotten the info elsewhere, but I guess that I was the easiest source.

I did something different this time though, I just remained detached and indifferent, but polite. I didn't continue the conversation. I just answered her question, wished her well, and told her to take care. She sent another email that didn't say anything of any importance, so I didn't respond. It actually felt good.

When I first saw that I had an email from her, I felt sick to my stomach. When I didn't respond to the second one, I realized that I've turned a corner. Even though I long to hear from her, I think that I'm done chasing her and accepting the little scraps that she throws my way. I'm here if she wants me, but she's going to have to show that she wants me. And, I don't mean by just cracking the door and expecting me to force my way in.

I feel that the change in the dynamic is good. It's like saying no to that first drink for an alcoholic. Before the dynamic was that she's set a drink on the bar and I'd slam it down and beg for more. Even if it was the rot-gut swill, I'd drink it as fast as I could. I've decided that I deserve top-shelf, and that I'm allowed to savor it rather than slam it like a high school kid at a keg party who is trying to get intoxicated as fast as possible.

Man, it was hard not to respond to the second email though... .

[bunny4523]

Meili,

I'm glad you were able to stay detached and indifferent.  It is a much better place for you to be.  It's interesting that when you first saw the email from her, you felt sick to your stomach.  That is your gut telling you something... .listen.

The other piece about that friend of yours that won't be an issue anymore if your ex comes back... .be prepared because there will be a new issue, a new ultimatum.  That is just the way it usually is with their demands.  

Have a good day and glad you feel like you are in a better place today,
Bunny

[Meili]

Thanks Bunny.

So, apparently, I was completely wrong about my friend just being a friend. We went to lunch with another friend, and I was asked out at lunch. I accepted. My friend got upset again.

I really don't get it. We've had a lot of discussions about not being involved together (again), and the fact that I can't be involved with anyone until I get over my x and deal with my issues. I guess that I'm just that naive and trust people for what they tell me. This one was hard because her actions have consistently matched her words until today. Maybe she's just going through her own thing?

One thing that I do know, I'm not going to allow her getting upset to keep me from going out with the woman who asked me (this will be the second time that we've gone out). I think that I'm getting to the point where I can say no and not put other's feelings before my own.

[bunny4523]

Interesting.  Yes a little confusing.  Ask the friend what upset her.  Maybe... .it is because your on the fence about the ex.  Like one day you are hoping the ex will come back, the next you are saying you need to move on.  Maybe it isn't about her wanting more from you... .  just the yo-yoing back and forth. It's hard for our friends to watch us do this stuff to ourselves.   How long ago were you two an item?

But I think it's important for you to go out with this woman and spend sometime with her.  I hope you are able to focus on the healthy aspects of the attraction and give it a chance to grow.

Bunny

[Meili]

I can see how it could look to others that I'm undecided about the thing with my x. I try to be really consistent in wanting my x back, but accepting that she isn't coming back. One does not negate the other.

Next month will be two years since my friend and I officially ended our romantic r/s. About six months before that, I had moved into a different bedroom of the house and we started detaching. And, six months before that we had decided that we were done, but then decided to give it one last try because we had been together for so long and had so much history. So, "how long ago" really depends on POV, but the technical answer is that we've been apart, romantically, for two years now. There's a lot of caring between the two of us, but there isn't romantic love and hasn't been for over three years.

I'll definitely go tomorrow. I had a lot of fun with her the last time.

[Meili]

Sad today. I'm not sure why. It's probably just everything that has been going on and all of the changes that have been made and that I'm going through.

I woke-up in the middle of a dream last night. I was at a funeral. I have no idea whose funeral it was, or if there were other people there. I stop the casket from being lowered into the grave and put a treasure chest on top of it. They wouldn't go into the hole, so I jumped on them. With a sudden jerk, they plummeted into a free fall. I thought to myself that the fall was silly because a grave is only 6 feet deep, but there I was falling.

The easy interpretation is my letting go of the delusions about how good the r/s was and that I'm finally letting it die. My having to jump on the boxes was because I have been stuck. I'm not sure about the free fall though.

Also, I've been fighting the urge to respond to my x's last email that didn't warrant a response. Historically, she would do that to start a conversation knowing that I would continue to respond for as long as she'd talk to me. I know that I'm the only one who can/will change the dynamics, so I can't open the dialog. Kinda sad that I can't do what I want to do.

[bunny4523]

I've been fighting the urge to respond to my x's last email that didn't warrant a response.  

Why are you fighting yourself so much?  If you want to respond respond.  Just know you will probably end up getting kicked in the teeth again.  You not responding is not going to teach her a lesson and make her want to change to get you back.  "Changing the dynamic" is to protect you not to magically fix her.  

So... .with that said if you want to... .reach out.  If you don't really want to then stop telling yourself you "can't". I think you might be having internal struggles going on because you think if you stick to this plan... .then she will see the light and get better and you can live happily ever after.  Regardless of who reaches out, this relationship is going to be treacherous and difficult if you decide to pursue it.  

I don't feel like you want to detach, I feel like you feel forced to detach.  Maybe you just need to confront it so that you can finally decide once and for all... .for yourself that YOU don't want this relationship.  

I think NO CONTACT is for people that want out, want the relationship to end, want the pain to stop, and want to move on.  Are you there yet?  It's ok if your not... .

Wishing you the best,
Bunny

[Meili]

I think that you're right, I think that I feel that I've been forced to detach. Well, I wouldn't say forced, I'm an adult, no one can force me to do anything. It is my choice, but it's the only choice that I think that I can reasonably make given the circumstances. She has made it clear that she doesn't want to reconcile, so I can either sit around pining over her, or I can detach. There really aren't a lot more options that I can see that have any merit.

I'm fighting myself so much because you're right, I don't want to detach. But, I also know that I must detach to move forward with my life. My emotions still want the illusion that was present, but my cognitive mind knows that isn't possible. So, I'm fighting myself because of 40+ years of training to act a certain way being in conflict with what I've learned only over the past six months. I'm fighting myself for the same reasons that all addicts struggle when going through withdrawal. I'm muddling through it the best way that I know how.

I understand that changing the dynamic is about and for me. That's why I am doing it. I have no delusions that it will change anything about her, make her miss me, make her desire to change, or anything like that. It's for my own sanity and comfort. I don't want the hurt anymore.

But, I must tell myself that I can't contact her. I can't allow myself to do it. I'm the only person who is preventing me from reaching out to her. I've decided that I can't, so I can't.

So, do I want to move on? Nope. But, given my options, it's really the only one that I have available that makes any sense to me.

[bunny4523]

I must tell myself that I can't contact her. I can't allow myself to do it. I'm the only person who is preventing me from reaching out to her.  

Gosh so complicated.  My heart goes out to you.  You are in a very tough spot.  I've heard people on here reference it to an addiction.  I never quite understood that until now listening to you explain it.  I know you will get through this, I just am hoping it will get easier for you sooner rather than later.  
Bunny

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Meili-

I'm muddling through it the best way that I know how.

You could muddle, or you could treat detachment like a project and get busy.  I don't know your whole story, but it's helpful to make a list of all the unacceptable behaviors you tolerated in the relationship, and that list will grow as you remember things, and then read it when you're tempted; it's a simple tool to help shift your focus.  What's the first thing on the list?

Then, consciously shift your focus further by focusing on you instead of her and the future instead of the past, creating a vision for your future that is compelling, without her in it, and then start moving in that direction; what does that look like?

The feeling of an "addiction" is common coming out of these relationships, as is a conflict between our heads and our hearts.  You can't trust your heart right now, so trust your head, do what you know is right, and eventually your heart will catch up with your head, and you can help it with focus shifts.  If you spend as much time and energy on detaching as you did in the relationship, that will be detaching as fast as you can.  Take care of you!  And answer my questions... .

[Meili]

While I appreciate the sentiment FH2H, I'm already doing what you suggested.

I spend every moment of free time devoted to myself and improving. I put far more energy into dealing with my issues than I ever did the r/s. Lists were made long ago, before the end of the r/s actually. At last count, there were at least 65 separate things listed from the 1.5 years together. The first things include trying to call the police because she wouldn't leave my house and her taking the phone away. Or her taking the most important possession that I own and threatening to burn/destroy it. Or her threatening to allege DV so as to put me in jail. Or her threats of suicide and DV. Oh, I have not forgotten the things that she did to me.The manipulation, the use of ex as a tool, the lies, the threats, the insults... .All that is still very present for me.

The focus has been on me for months now. She's a disaster, there no questioning that. All that I can do is focus on me. All that I can change is me. All that I can control is me. These are not just words, they are a way of life for me. I let her do her thing, and I do mine. If our paths cross again, fine. If not, that's fine too.

The question of the new version of me is really the hard part. The thing is, that has nothing to do with my x. That has everything to do with me and my history. With her, for the first time, I saw a future. Without her, the future can still be seen,  but the difference is that the desire for the future is gone. That is a lifetime of being taught that there is no future. My x, at this point, is really just a symptom of something much larger that is really outside the scope of the realm of these boards.

As for the head vs. heart thing. The head is far less trust-worthy than my heart at this point. My heart has been completely consistent in all of this. It is my head that is playing games.

[fromheeltoheal]

The question of the new version of me is really the hard part. The thing is, that has nothing to do with my x. That has everything to do with me and my history. With her, for the first time, I saw a future. Without her, the future can still be seen,  but the difference is that the desire for the future is gone. That is a lifetime of being taught that there is no future. My x, at this point, is really just a symptom of something much larger that is really outside the scope of the realm of these boards.

Yes, I can relate Meili.  The way I look at it, would we be spending this much time and energy looking at who we are, how we've lived our lives, digging into our past and seeing how we're wired and why, if it wasn't for our exes?  Maybe, but probably not, not with this much motivation, and the way a borderline shines a light on issues that we can now deal with is one of the gifts of the relationship.  And ever notice everything we focus on gets better?  And when we get to the point where you are, where it's no longer about our exes and it becomes about us, a required stage of detachment, then there's the Personal Inventory board to start looking at what's up with us, what's going on with us, how we look at beliefs we may have been running for a long, long time from the frame of are they serving us today?  Are they empowering our lives or getting it our way?  This is the good news really, an opportunity to make sure our best days are ahead of us.  Take care of you!

[Meili]

Yes, it was a huge gift. I started to work on my issues before the r/s imploded. My x kept getting angry because "she made me better for the next r/s." I guess that she could have decided to pay more attention to this one and reaped the benefits, but that's out of my control.

But, if she hadn't chosen the path that she did, I probably would, as you said, not put forth the level of energy that I am now. So, I thank her for that. I also thank her for putting up with my insecurities for as long as she did. Don't get me wrong, I put up with hers too.

I have a posts on the Personal Inventory board. I keep a thread here to post stuff about the r/s and my x and try to keep the PI thread about me.