Denial

[momtario]

Denial is a recurring theme for me. It seems to be my brain's go-to response when dealing with trauma. "Ignore it and it will go away". Except it doesn't.
I've found that if you ignore a traumatic experience, that's when it sneaks up on you.

What does denial look like in my life?

Frightening, tbh. It's the driving factor in my struggle with minimising. It makes it difficult for me to have a prepared and mindful response to bad situations. It has, on many occasions, prevented me from connecting the dots. Each dot gets viewed as its own individual blip, and then it passes, leaving me surprised, confused, and hurt. But then it's gone, and everything returns to 'normal', whatever that is.

I have more to say on this but no more time to say it. To be continued... .

[momtario]

Being in denial prevents me from seeing the patterns. This in turn prevents me from making changes. A long time ago, my inability to shake denial was keeping me stuck. I wrote a this... .Poem?... .that helped a little.

To put a thing behind you, you have to go straight through it.
Sure, you can turn your back, refuse to look.
But then you're stuck, stagnant, never moving forward.
You have to go back to remember, you have to remember in order to forgive, and you have to forgive to truly forget.

[eeks]

Hi momtario,

Noticing that you use denial as a "go-to response" for trauma is an important insight to have.  Trauma-related emotions are often intense and overwhelming, and survivors of trauma have their different go-to responses, e.g. substance or process addictions, violence/aggression problems, but really anything that serves as a distraction from those overwhelming feelings.  Yet, the trauma response remains in the nervous system until it is worked through.

I think it could be helpful for you to keep on noticing exactly when and how denial happens for you.  Is it that emotions and sensations from past trauma come up, and you ignore them?  Or is it that a stressful situation arises in the present, and you ignore it hoping it will go away?  Or both?

And is it a conscious decision, you feel the feelings and then decide you're going to ignore them, or do you "shut off the feelings/experience" as a reflex, without being aware that you're doing so, and only notice after the fact?

Also, if you're not already seeing a therapist, a therapist knowledgeable about trauma could help you work through the trauma associated emotions at a manageable pace.

eeks

[momtario]

Thanks eeks. It definitely isn't voluntary. Sometimes the minimising is, but denial with me often takes the form of temporary amnesia or accidentally (the only word i can come up with) tricking myself into believing that it wasn't as bad as i thought.

I had at one point been seeing a dv counselor and a family therapist but all i can afford right now is whatever's free. As soon as things turn around financially though, I'll look up a good T for trauma help. Thanks

  take care

[eeks]

Thanks eeks. It definitely isn't voluntary. Sometimes the minimising is, but denial with me often takes the form of temporary amnesia or accidentally (the only word i can come up with) tricking myself into believing that it wasn't as bad as i thought.

Why do you think you have a need to "believe things aren't as bad as you thought"?  Is it because if you really let the truth sink in, your emotions would be overwhelming?  Or you'd need to make personal changes in your relationship, like setting boundaries, that are scary or appear difficult or impossible?

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi momtario-

Denial serves a purpose, it shields our consciousness from strong emotions or an event or belief that conflicts radically with our model of the world.  And sometimes, denial is so strong that we don't know we're in denial, we deny the denial, so even the fact we're denying something isn't available to us in our consciousness.

And consciously ignoring something we're aware of isn't denial, beyond "I'm choosing to deny that", which is really using deny as a synonym for ignore.  And minimizing is ignore-lite; yes, it happened, but it wasn't that bad.

Sidebar: I used to have a dog who was a total teddy bear with people, but a total ass with other dogs, mostly because he was territorial and protective of me, but he'd get in a fight with another dog, and I'd start walking toward them to break it up, and I'd consciously not look, I was going to deny the fact it's happening for as long as I can by not looking, enjoy my bliss, and when I get there I'll look and deal with it, the biggest issue being when your dog attacks someone else's dog, it's a great way to make an enemy of that dog's owner, so here comes another confrontation.  He never really hurt another dog BTW, just puffed his chest out, got loud and acted tough, but that was my foray into voluntary denial.

Anyway, semantics really, and I enjoyed your poem, especially the first line, and I agree, the only way out is through.  My go-to method of emotion avoidance has always been running, boy can I run fast, metaphorically, so fast I can outrun my emotions so I don't have to feel them.  Solution: slow down and feel.  Turns out the fear of facing an emotion was worse than facing and feeling it, all the way through, and coming out the other side cleaner and lighter.  

So what emotions do you deny, ignore or minimize?  What events are they tied to?

[momtario]

Eeks, what you are describing is absolutely how it started. I've never been a confrontational person, or even an assertive person, so hiding from the truth was my way of hiding from the need to act on it.

At this point, I've developed enough mindfulness surrounding my own bad habits that I'm mostly just battling what has become an ingrained response.

Occasionally, I guess it's tied to my hopes that stopping the bleeding is doing something---that that's enough. And, in the moment, it always is.

I try to catch myself and stop if I'm minimising, and see everything for what it is.

HtH, i tend to deny (actively) any feelings of anger. When I'm angry, I simply don't know what to do with it, and never learned how to express it.

I'll ignore mostly fear, because when i allow myself to feel fear, and not just anxiety, I freeze, and cannot act.

I minimise pain. Once the urgent need for response is done, cognitive dissonance sets in.

Are there any good books on dealing with cognitive dissonance? It's a problem for me.

The events they're tied to? Mostly in the past. I'll get back to that soon but now is not a good time.

Re your sidebar, that's how I approach dangerous situations such as my children on the stairs when they were younger.

 

[fromheeltoheal]

Are there any good books on dealing with cognitive dissonance? It's a problem for me.

Of course, depending how dissonant you get, the help of a professional is better than a book, but a book I've been getting a lot of value out of is Pete Walker's Complex PTSD: From Surviving to Thriving, a recognized work in the field of CPTSD.  CPTSD differs from PTSD in that someone with PTSD, we typically think of soldiers coming back from war who freak out when a car backfires, for example, they flash back to a specific event and get the visuals and all, where with CPTSD it's not specific and doesn't come with visuals or triggered by a sound or whatever, it's an emotional flashback to an earlier, traumatic time, with the emotions just as strong as when the trauma occurred.  You reminded me of it by mentioning your response to fear is to freeze, and Walker defines four trauma responses, fight, flight, freeze and fawn.  We all have all of them, but the healthier we are the less extreme and more balanced the reactions are.  My primary response is flight, like I'm outta here, and I'm really good at it, and the secondary one is freeze, like you, and that includes what's called right brain dissociation, where we hyper-think to not feel. 

Anyway, after the initial education, there are plenty of tools for managing emotional flashbacks and caring for ourselves in such a way that they don't happen much if at all.  Recommended.

My dog Bobby lived to 16 and I loved him.  I'm about to get a black lab puppy, so here we go again, although labs ain't really fighters... .

[momtario]

Eeks, rereading your first response, I thought I should clarify that it isn't that I ignore a situationin the hopes it will go away. It's more that immediately after the situation ceases to be urgent, I move past it, like I'm closing a door.

[momtario]

Thank you HtH for the book recommendation. I am likely going to need a good therapist to help me figure this out but the book sounds like the perfect place to start.

I tried last night to get into the events My denial is connected to, in my other PI thread and my mind won't even allow me to focus on any of it. Tree memoriees are all definitely there. They actively haunt me. But I can't make myself look, even though i know i have to.

So how do you face something when you can't? How do you open doors you'd rather leave locked?

[fromheeltoheal]

I tried last night to get into the events My denial is connected to, in my other PI thread and my mind won't even allow me to focus on any of it. Tree memoriees are all definitely there. They actively haunt me. But I can't make myself look, even though i know i have to.

So how do you face something when you can't? How do you open doors you'd rather leave locked?

By getting leverage.  And that starts with a belief that whatever it is that is haunting you is getting in the way of your empowered future, and not resolving it right away is a waste of life.  Or something similar, with enough emotional punch to impel you to act.

And it's not the events that haunt you, it's what you make them mean.  In order to develop more empowering meanings to what happened, you first have to look, see what it was, see what you make it mean, and then decide if that belief is serving you or not, and if not, pick a new one, and look for references to support it.

If all of that is too much to do alone, or your coping mechanisms are such that they prevent you from even looking, then someone to guide you through it would be invaluable.

What are you going to do?

[momtario]

Thanks HtH.
On the advice of an invaluable friend, I'm going to look into hypnotherapy. Because my coping mechanisms really are going to stay in the way until i have help getting around them.

Asking for help doesn't come naturally to me. I've always dealt with things on my own. I'm starting ti realize that I'm doing it wrong and I'm trying to make use of every help i can to turn everything around, maybe too quickly. But it's past time.

Thank you again, both eeks and HeeltoHeal.

[Narkiss]

What do you deny? Minimize? Is there a pattern? I do both. My BPD will do or say something so disturbing or hurtful that initially my reaction is that this won't work and I have to get out. Then denial sets in within a day, and it seems unimportant and has no emotional resonance. It's like I forget or deny it was as bad as it was and it gets swept away by the tide. My T says I am not accepting him as a whole person (the bad and the good). I was telling my sister some of what he has done and she was absolutely astounded. I feel so much cognitive dissonance. I cannot reconcile what he has done with the person I think he is -- or even how I believe a human being should treat others. I am aware of this but still stuck.

[momtario]

Hi Narkiss

It sounds like you have the same thing going on as I do, as far as dysfunctional coping methods go.

That's exactly how it goes, every time. Sometimes I can keep the need to make changes in my mind for as much as a week. But then it's gone.

My uB/NPDh gets very dysregulated at times. His medications have allowed for a semblance of peace but if they're disrupted by anything, life is tossed back into a tornado.

And I've now been staring into space for several minutes and can't remember what i was going to say. At any rate, he gets very abusive (verbal, physical, intimidation, etc.). And I'll sayto myself that I'll leave. I'll tell a friend or 2 that I'm done and going. And then i don't because of the denial.

[momtario]

This thread is about my tendency to resort to denial so I'm going to clarify my last post.

I said 'etc.'

I meant to say (but didn't) that when he's in a real fit, when he can tell his other tactics aren't working, he has, I'm trying ti stay focused but it's not easy. He used to rape me.

It's not a problem anymore (in that he doesn't do it anymore). But it's still a problem for me that he did. Kind of frequently. But that's another door that's closed. And I'm done with opening it for tonight.

[fromheeltoheal]

I meant to say (but didn't) that when he's in a real fit, when he can tell his other tactics aren't working, he has, I'm trying ti stay focused but it's not easy. He used to rape me.

It's not a problem anymore (in that he doesn't do it anymore). But it's still a problem for me that he did. Kind of frequently. But that's another door that's closed. And I'm done with opening it for tonight.

It seems like that was a breakthrough for you to tell us that momtario, and good for you!  And maybe you feel a little lighter, and a little bit of denial died?

[Narkiss]

Yes, it seems we do more or less the same thing and I'm struggling to break out of it. My mother was diagnosed narcissistic. When I was young she would go into rages about things like missing socks or being contradicted. We would be expected to apologize and then everything would be forgiven and forgotten, like it never happened. For me, that is probably how it started. I was in denial it was as bad as it was. Last night, instead of counting sheep, I counted the number of times my BPD did something to hurt me (never physical) or times that he did something so screwy that I felt that this could never ever work. It reached at least 20 over 15 months--and we are long distance. And I am probably forgetting some.

I think I have always done that. I patted myself on the back that I had an unusually forgiving nature and couldn't hold on to anger long at all. It was just denial and avoidance. My ex is diagnosed OCPD. We were married for 13 years. I knew he was difficult but I was in denial over how dysfunctional the relationship was. I put everything in boxes (correcting me, offending my friends, inability to adapt, not willing to let anyone touch his things, drive his car, use his computer... .) and closed the boxes. It was only when opened them up and I linked all everything together did I realized that he would not change and I got out. I still felt incredibly guilty and doubted myself.

[momtario]

HtH, I haven't opened up about it in a long time. It's incredibly difficult to make myself admit it even in my own head. And when I do, I tend to lose a lot of time staring at nothing.
The denial is something I can push aside temporarily but it's.

Being able to shove it aside long enough to say it is a pretty rare victory for me and I feel better for it.
I just fought through a lot of internal resistance to get to the point where I can write comprehensively right now. Whether I call it denial, cognitive dissonance, dissociative amnesia, or just plain hooey, it really sucks. A lot.

Narkiss, your boxes are like my doors. How did you manage through opening them and connecting them? I find it difficult to see a pattern, like the dots just won't connect. Probably because i don't want them to.

My biggest barrier to acting has always been proud of the following :
I'm a unusually forgiving person.
I'm strong enough to handle pretty much anything life throws at me.
I don't get angry and if I do, it's easy to ignore.
I always look for the bright side.
And, I'm never willing to give up on even the tiniest thread of hope.

Those things all sound great on paper, don't they?

I have a nasty habit of viewing events as though they've occurred in a vacuum, but they don't. And I want to be able to see the pattern.

It took about 5 minutes of seriously battling my own mind but I did it. I refused to hide and I do feel better. Moreso than if I had hidden from it Like my brain desperately wanted me to.

And, I'm able to relax. For the first time in days, the physical weight of anxiety is gone. Not forever, but for now.

[fromheeltoheal]

And, I'm able to relax. For the first time in days, the physical weight of anxiety is gone. Not forever, but for now.

Nice!  You're taking some big risks here momtario, and good for you!  And when we consciously do things that are outside our comfort zone, our comfort zone gets bigger.

[Narkiss]

Hi Momtario. Therapy. Looking again at the DSM criteria for OCPD and other's experiences with OCPD husbands. It helped me realize that all these "quirks" were related -- all stemming from the same root cause. And since he refused to get therapy and told me that nothing would change, it enabled me to open up the boxes. Until this year, I was in denial about the OCPD although he was diagnosed years ago.

The BPD, on the other hand, I am finding it much harder. I am sitting here missing him like crazy, replaying our last conversations and wishing I handled them differently. Just about forgetting the bad, selfish, dysfunctional things he has done -- and there have been many. They have no emotional resonance. I just feel numb when I think about them, if I think about them. Even looking at the DSM doesn't help. I think that if the bad parts really sunk in, I'd have to walk away. And although I'm know I have to do that, I don't feel it yet.

[Narkiss]

Hi Momtario, thank you for this thread. It has helped me face my own denial--which I had been in denial about. I had thought things had been getting more consistent April through June. Still, hurtful and strange things happened -- which I literally forgot or downplayed. In April, I invited him to come for the weekend (after spending a wonderful couple of days with him two weeks before). I got no response. When I called him on that Friday, he said he'd do his best. I called him again on Saturday. He didn't answer his phone. I made myself sick with anxiety and began throwing up. Late Saturday afternoon, he called, told me he was in town and said we could meet in an hour. Like an idiot I dragged myself out of bed and dressed myself up. It turned out that he was in town for a dinner anyway, which he had not told me. He tells me over and over how much he loves me but could not decide if he wanted to see me.

 I forgot about that part and only remembered what a nice time we had (before he had to go to the dinner) and the next day (I picked him up at his hotel and did errands with him). But even that was not perfect because I took him to a vegetarian restaurant by mistake and he almost blew his top and stormed out. He was lovely again as soon as I found him an acceptable place to eat.

Momtario: why do you think you are in denial?

[momtario]

Why am I in denial?

Good question.
It's easier than admitting the things I've put up with. It's because of the cognitive dissonance that my husband can both be abusive and caring. That i consider myself a good mother, I would do anything to protect my children; But I haven't.

I'm a feminist (the real kind not the kind you hear about from the MRAs). I believe in equality, yet have lived most of my adult life under someone else's thumb.

And then, there's the tiny voice telling me that if it were really that bad, I would "just leave". That because I don't respond by leaving, it cannot possibly be what it is. That because I never reported the assaults they maybe weren't what I thought. I carefully and purposefully step on that voice every time i hear it now. It doesn't serve my purpose of healing. It has kept me drowning for far too long.

I've even named the voice so I could recognize it as not representing my real thoughts and feelings. A cbt thing from my ocd treatment (NOT OCPD).

[Narkiss]

You are very hard on yourself, Momtario. Can you be kinder? If it was all bad then it would be clearer. What would you tell someone in the same situation? What would you tell me? I can't believe what I have put with with because of the moments of love and sweetness. What I have overlooked and ignored almost out of existence. How lost I have felt this last year. And the hope that this time things will be different. But they aren't. And i have a really hard time grasping that. We all do.

Is there any way you can get away and think for a couple of weeks? I did that and it helped. Somewhat. Another thing that has helped -- a friend of mine who is a psychologist suggested this -- is to write down 3 or 4 values that are important to you and look at it every few hours.

[Lilyroze]

Why am I in denial?

Good question.
It's easier than admitting the things I've put up with. It's because of the cognitive dissonance that my husband can both be abusive and caring. That i consider myself a good mother, I would do anything to protect my children; But I haven't.

I'm a feminist (the real kind not the kind you hear about from the MRAs). I believe in equality, yet have lived most of my adult life under someone else's thumb.

And then, there's the tiny voice telling me that if it were really that bad, I would "just leave". That because I don't respond by leaving, it cannot possibly be what it is. That because I never reported the assaults they maybe weren't what I thought. I carefully and purposefully step on that voice every time i hear it now. It doesn't serve my purpose of healing. It has kept me drowning for far too long.

I've even named the voice so I could recognize it as not representing my real thoughts and feelings. A cbt thing from my ocd treatment (NOT OCPD).

Dear Momtario,

I am glad you have this board and thread to sort your feelings. I just want to gently remind you that the stages you are going through might be slightly different then others, and you are doing a good job seeing that. Many who don't experience don't understand it. You do and are getting through it wise one.

Battered woman's syndrome is an extremely detrimental psychological condition that effects women who are subjected to repeated abuse and violence. This syndrome helps to explain why women stay in abusive relationships and do not seek assistance for their harmful situation. There a various stages that an individual who is suffering from this condition will experience.

First stage of battered women's syndrome is denial. Denial occurs when a victim of abuse is unable to admit and acknowledge that they are being subjected to domestic violence. During this stage, a victim of intimate partner abuse will not only avoid admitting the abuse to their friends and their family members, but they themselves will not acknowledge the brutality that they are suffering from. They will fail to recognize that there are any problems between themselves and their partner. There are multiple factors that may contribute to a victim's unwavering denial.  Which you are now addressing.

It does feel good to give the little voice a name, or listen to it. Are you listening to it more now?  
 Denial is not a fun place to be kind of like quicksand and the giraffe.  

Though next stage is guilt, which I can tell you are feeling. Seems like you have done a lot to hold your family and children together. I commend you with the jobs, the children all you are doing. You are stronger and wiser then you realize.

The next stage is enlightenment. If I might ask do you think you might be in that stage by any chance?
One of the most important phases of the battered women's syndrome is enlightenment. This occurs when a victim of abuse recognizes that they are not to blame for the abuse that they are experiencing. They will begin to understand that no one deserves to be subjected to domestic violence no matter what characteristics they posses. The fact that an offender does not approve of their victim's behavior does not justify subjecting the victim to abuse and violence.

Last stage is responsibility. Which seems like the little voice and you are mulling over. Where you are at, what you are feeling, how you got there, what you might have ignored. Now maybe what you want to do about it.

It is essential that individuals who have decided to escape their detrimental situation ensure that they are safe and secure. Women are in the most danger when they make the decision to flee their current environment. So maybe the voice and you have been examining things seeing how you can make better. Which you have with your jobs, being the stable on for the kids. IF by chance you decide you want a change is there more counseling you all can do? An exit plan if you so choose someday? Do you have family and friends or support near by?

Either way thanks for letting me stop in on your thread give you    and support. See some wise posts, and if I might suggest one thing. Give yourself some self love, self compassion while you are giving all to others. Don't ignore the voice inside, it loves you and is warning you, wanting you to be safe. However that is. Facing it, no denial, moving forward, counseling, he being responsible or if you have to leave there is places you are loved and you didn't fail. I have helped others cross the bridge. Let me know if you need resources.

LR

[Grey Kitty]

  Acknowledging something like you did in this topic is a huge step, even in an anonymous place like this. And I'm glad that doing so has you feeling a bit lighter.

So how do you face something when you can't? How do you open doors you'd rather leave locked?

One answer I can offer you is that you open the door for just a minute or maybe five minutes then shut it again if you want to. Allow yourself to remember and feel for a bit, and yes, it will hurt. But you can shut it away again if you need to.

You know that leaving it locked up forever isn't the best answer... .but leaving it locked up today or tomorrow may well be best. It is a bit of a balance, and you will figure it out.

As others have said, denial has a function. I like to think of it as protecting you from things you aren't strong enough to cope with, and it is good and powerful that way. Then as you get stronger, you don't need it any more, or don't need it as much. Sometimes it is still there as a habit beyond when it is actually helping you. Please be gentle with yourself about this. These things don't change over night.

[woundedPhoenix]

Denial is a recurring theme for me. It seems to be my brain's go-to response when dealing with trauma. "Ignore it and it will go away". Except it doesn't.
I've found that if you ignore a traumatic experience, that's when it sneaks up on you.

Same here. Denial is what probably kept me afloat in the r/s far longer than any "normal" person would do... .
Everytime time there was a conflict and i couldn't work out a solution, i deflected it or just ran off.
And the denial became more intense, causing me to retract into my job or other distractions.

I think the basic conflict in the r/s was about her intense need for control and my kind of artist-like day to day living.
It clashed, she couldn't live like me and i couldn't live like her... .


Denial is something we learn though. My childhood was emotionally deprived, and when my mom died when i was 11, my father didn't grieve AT ALL.
He was totally broken but unable to put his emotions out there, the only thing he tried was laugh his misery away.
As a result i never was given space to grieve myself, without an adult that showed me how, comforted me and kept me emotionally safe.
And that... .set me up with the example that it's better to stuff things away then to work through them.

[momtario]

Thank you all so much. I'll come back to this to form a better response soon. I took the week to emotionally realign myself.