You don't know what poverty is like... (and my boundary enforcement)

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

We were having a discussion about one of our daughters.   The surrounding story really doesn't matter.

For some reason, today was a big day for my wife to "know" what other people were thinking and to "fight for that".

For instance, earlier today at lunch D10 looks at S15, who had been bothering her by making a face or something and says "I know that you think my face is disgusting... .so please quit it... "

In big scheme of things... .big brother was goading her... and won.  I decided to do a gentle lesson on this.  I said to D10 that she needed to apologize for claiming to know what someone was thinking.  Before I could finish speaking, my wife jumps in and claims that people can know and then pressed S15 really hard to "admit" that he was thinking that her face is disgusting.  He finally "admitted" it under intense pressure.

I decided to not make a big issue right then and perhaps bring it up later.  So, we got to discussing D19 and out of nowhere she starts making statements about my feelings and feelings about my financial experience growing up.  I raised my hand to get her attention... and she kinda "doubled down" on her intensity.

I got up and walked away, saying I would like to hold a "conference table" in 30 minutes.  About an hour later, she finally got ready for it. 

Cue about 5 minutes of discussion followed by me walking out as she claimed that "You don't know what poverty is like... " was ONLY her opinion about what I know and that it was not a "statement" about what I "knew".

She would flop around and holler in room by herself and then ask me to come back to discuss.   Which I would happily do.

She would then say "If you would only say it this way... .there wouldn't be a problem"  Basically alleging that "my response" was the issue, not what she said.   

I stayed calm and said "no... that doesn't work for me".  "If you want to describe your thoughts and experiences I am interested in listening, but I will not listen to your "opinions" about my thoughts and experiences".  Cue her rising voice... .I would raise hand (conference table signal to hush) and her voice would get louder.  I would walk out. 

Repeat several times.

She finally said... ."(ff name) when you tell me I am telling you your feelings, when I am not doing that, it makes me want to fight you)

To which I said  "I agree... .I think you have it.  Can you take that feeling that you just described to me, and think that I might feel the same way.  Because that is exactly how I would describe my feelings, when I hear incorrect statements about my thoughts and emotions.  I want to fight people off... "

Long silence.  ff wife:  "but I wasn't doing that... ." 

She finally apologized and said she would try to do better.  I put together some biblical references that I believe support my actions and will discuss tomorrow in MC.

FF

[formflier]

We were having a discussion about one of our daughters.   The surrounding story really doesn't matter.

For some reason, today was a big day for my wife to "know" what other people were thinking and to "fight for that".

For instance, earlier today at lunch D10 looks at S15, who had been bothering her by making a face or something and says "I know that you think my face is disgusting... .so please quit it... "

In big scheme of things... .big brother was goading her... and won.  I decided to do a gentle lesson on this.  I said to D10 that she needed to apologize for claiming to know what someone was thinking.  Before I could finish speaking, my wife jumps in and claims that people can know and then pressed S15 really hard to "admit" that he was thinking that her face is disgusting.  He finally "admitted" it under intense pressure.

I decided to not make a big issue right then and perhaps bring it up later.  So, we got to discussing D19 and out of nowhere she starts making statements about my feelings and feelings about my financial experience growing up.  I raised my hand to get her attention... and she kinda "doubled down" on her intensity.

I got up and walked away, saying I would like to hold a "conference table" in 30 minutes.  About an hour later, she finally got ready for it. 

Cue about 5 minutes of discussion followed by me walking out as she claimed that "You don't know what poverty is like... " was ONLY her opinion about what I know and that it was not a "statement" about what I "knew".

She would flop around and holler in room by herself and then ask me to come back to discuss.   Which I would happily do.

She would then say "If you would only say it this way... .there wouldn't be a problem"  Basically alleging that "my response" was the issue, not what she said.   

I stayed calm and said "no... that doesn't work for me".  "If you want to describe your thoughts and experiences I am interested in listening, but I will not listen to your "opinions" about my thoughts and experiences".  Cue her rising voice... .I would raise hand (conference table signal to hush) and her voice would get louder.  I would walk out. 

Repeat several times.

She finally said... ."(ff name) when you tell me I am telling you your feelings, when I am not doing that, it makes me want to fight you)

To which I said  "I agree... .I think you have it.  Can you take that feeling that you just described to me, and think that I might feel the same way.  Because that is exactly how I would describe my feelings, when I hear incorrect statements about my thoughts and emotions.  I want to fight people off... "

Long silence.  ff wife:  "but I wasn't doing that... ." 

She finally apologized and said she would try to do better.  I put together some biblical references that I believe support my actions and will discuss tomorrow in MC.

FF

[C.Stein]

Cue her rising voice... .I would raise hand (conference table signal to hush) and her voice would get louder.

Do you think this is the best approach here?  Seems invalidating to me, as if you are telling her without actually saying it that you don't want to hear what she is saying, which may be true or not.  Point is, her reaction to this hand hush leads to escalating anger might suggest she feels it invalidating.

Is there a better way to handle this?

[formflier]

I am sure there is.

However, this is the approach that the biblical marriage counselor wants us to use.  My wife is insistent that we follow his guidance.  The specific guidance of the "biblical conference table" is to raise a hand if a pause is needed.  There is a big overtalk problem in our r/s, hopefully this will help us solve that.

I will do my best to follow that guidance and model the behaviors he is teaching.  If that invalidates my wife... .that is really her choice... not mine.

It will be interesting to see if my wife wishes to discuss this today.  The latest update on this is that she is saying I was right and she was wrong to try to do what she did.

FF

[GaGrl]

But regardless of whether she is now saying she was wrong to handle it the way she did, the fact that you recognize that overtalking is a big problem (which contributed to this latest situation) and that the issue of her naming your emotions and motivations is ongoing -- means it might be really good to use this to talk through in terms of how better to handle in future.

[formflier]

 
Exactly!

My job is to stay calm and continue to name and point to the behavior that is hurtful.  Use boundary enforcement if needed to protect myself.

Either my wife will tire of using those behaviors... .or she will not.

I'm comfortable that I can use boundaries to protect myself as needed.

FF

[byfaith]

Hey FF,

The Indian talking stick
Have you ever heard of or used this communication method? We did it once in MC but have not used it at home yet


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUxi-Zc45tA

[formflier]

We have tried versions of this... .I tend to love it... .my wife HATES it.  Every once in a while she will say she likes it.

Anyway... .the nuance here is not that the listener can't talk... .but that the only thing the listener can do is reflect or restate the position of the talker, until the talker says... "I've made my point and I believe you understand my point... "

We have done something close to this but it feel apart at the stage where I was suppose to reflect back to my wife what she had said.  After 30 minutes of her stating her position (and slightly changing it each time)... .and me trying to reflect it... .she said it was hopeless and gave up.

She later apologized and said she was being mean to me and purposefully not telling me I had it right.

I'll keep this in mind... .I really do like it.

FF