My brother's relationship with my wife

[Our abuse recovery guide]

My older brother has BPD traits (he is in his 40's) and I had to live with this my whole life and it has been very difficult but I can tolerate it.  My parents had difficulty but they always treated him with special attention. My brother is nasty to my wife and he does things to her when no one is looking.  He once pushed her while she was talking to my mother, my mother was turned around and she did not see it.  He once banged into her chair really hard and almost knocked her over and again he did it when no one was looking.  He does many small things like this and it adds up.  We don't know what to do.  We stopped going home on holidays because of this.  He only does these things when my parents are around, especially my mother.  We are having a birthday party for myself and we invited everyone except him and he is not handling it well.  My wife did not want to have him there because of his disruptive behavior towards her.  I don't know what to do but it is tearing the family apart.  Please help. 

[Jeremylin]

My older brother has BPD traits (he is in his 40's) and I had to live with this my whole life and it has been very difficult but I can tolerate it.  My parents had difficulty but they always treated him with special attention. My brother is nasty to my wife and he does things to her when no one is looking.  He once pushed her while she was talking to my mother, my mother was turned around and she did not see it.  He once banged into her chair really hard and almost knocked her over and again he did it when no one was looking.  He does many small things like this and it adds up.  We don't know what to do.  We stopped going home on holidays because of this.  He only does these things when my parents are around, especially my mother.  We are having a birthday party for myself and we invited everyone except him and he is not handling it well.  My wife did not want to have him there because of his disruptive behavior towards her.  I don't know what to do but it is tearing the family apart.  Please help. 

[Naughty Nibbler]

Welcome Jeremylin:  
I'm so sorry about the situation with your brother.  It has to be distressing for both you and your wife.  Has your brother ever had any therapy or treatment for any form of mental illness? Does your brother work and live on his own, or does he live with your parents?

What are some of the other BPD behaviors that your brother displays (anger, rage?, etc.)

There is a lot of good information links at the right of this post.  Information about setting BOUNDARIES should be helpful.  Have you ever tried to have a discussion with your brother about the way he treats your wife?

What took place immediately after the chair and pushing events?  :)id you and your wife leave?

[Jeremylin]

Thank you for responding!  It is terrible and I don't know what to do.  He has never had any therapy or any treatment.  He would never admit that he has a problem and if anyone tells him he needs to seek help he gets angry and defensive. 

He does work and he lives on his own. 

Some of the behaviors he has are anger, rage, he says nasty sneaky things on purpose to hurt people's feelings but he does it in a way so that no one really pays attention except for the person he is attacking.  For instance, he will bring my Uncle's ex girlfriends name up when my Uncle's wife is present because he knows it upsets her.  He will give my Uncle's wife the middle finger when no one is looking, I have seen this.  He will stand in her way and block her when no one is looking.  He creates chaos with my family.  When my mother isn't around his behavior isn't as bad. 

I have not had a conversation with him about the way he treats my wife because I feel that he will get angry and defensive.  I feel that he will blow up. 

After the pushing event we stayed at the holiday party and my wife was very upset.  After the chair pushing event we left shortly after.  I am not sure if he figured out why we left.

We are having a birthday party this weekend which he isn't invited to because of the way he treats my wife and I feel like he is going to find out the location and come anyway and create havoc and make a scene.

I just don't know what to do anymore.  Thank you for your help. 

[Notwendy]

I am so sorry that this is happening. I do know that if I were your wife, I would want you to stand up for me.

What stood out to me the most is that he pushed her and banged into her. This is physical abuse and it should not be tolerated.

I understand that you don't want to tear your family apart, but such families have a tendency to not respect boundaries. This can put us in situations that we don't want to be in- where we have to make a choice. But we have to, to protect what is important to us.

My mother was allowed to be emotionally abusive to her children. My father did not stand up for us and this had an impact on our self esteem. His main concern was to keep her happy.

As an adult, my parents didn't respect boundaries with my children. I stood up for them. As far as my parents were concerned, I tore my family apart. My father even told me he wished we could be one happy family again. Happy- at the cost of my children? It then dawned on me that my own happiness, or that of my children, was not a factor in this "happy family".

Your family and brother have put you in a position to choose. Them or your wife. You chose your wife. ( how would she have felt if you did not?) It't their own dysfunction that is "tearing them apart" and while they may want to blame you, it isn't your job to keep them happy by letting your brother abuse your wife.

[Turkish]

I get the emotions behind not wanting to escalate conflict. Those of us who grew up with high conflict relatives get that, wanting to keep peace, and not wanting to piss someone off.

I agree with the others however. Your wife is your primary family. Protect her. We have validation tools here which can help you communicate in order to reduce conflict (see lesson 3 of the lessons on the improving board), but there's nothing wrong at all with being assertive, stating your boundary, briefly (because long explanations aren't likely to go over well). How would you imagine that?

These things are tough. We're here for you to support you in working it out.

[Notwendy]

Also consider that this "tearing the family apart" is a reaction on their part that may or may not last. It's an over reaction in reality. You put boundaries on your brother's behavior which teaches him that he is not allowed to harm your wife- emotionally or physically. This is not an unreasonable boundary- we should not allow people to cause us harm.

If you tolerated it, you would be teaching him that his behavior is not OK. That's the truth. Would you teach the kindergarten bully that this behavior is OK? Your brother has been allowed to behave like a kindergarten bully.

Given the boundary, he then has a choice- to change his behavior or not. He may or may not choose to do so.

When there is a disordered member in the family, the different family members may take on certain behaviors to keep the family in emotional balance, or keep the peace. In my FOO, it was to appease my mother and obey her commands- whatever they were. Causing her distress led to rages and that was not acceptable. I didn't say no to her, ever, as the consequences of that were punishment by my father.

When I started to set boundaries, actually say no to her, the reaction was extreme anger from my parents. This didn't completely tear the family apart, but it changed, because I changed. Because of the lessons on this board, counseling, and 12 step groups, I am able to have a relationship with my mother, that includes boundaries. She didn't like it at first, but she knows my limits. However, she painted me black to my father ( who passed away) and some other relatives and those relationships are strained.

Yet, what is most important to me is the well being of my children. Setting boundaries will protect your marriage. Your FOO will then have a choice as well.

[Jeremylin]

Thank you all for the great information.  This has really helped me!  I have never put up boundaries and I have to.  I am not sure how to do this and I want to learn.  I have a feeling that putting up boundaries will make him rage.   

My mother confronted him on some of these issues and he denies everything, is this part of BPD.  He denies that he did these things to my wife.  Does someone with BPD traits not realize what they are doing?   Is it not worth it to confront him because they can't understand.

He really wants to come to this birthday party that he is not invited to.  I am not sure why because we really aren't that close because of the way he treats me and my wife.  He keeps on text messaging me asking me for the location of the party.  I am just going to ignore his text messages (is this the right thing to do?).  I feel that it is not worth it for me to argue with him.  I do have a feeling that he may show up to the party and cause havoc.

I am so happy that I have found people to relate with. 

[Harri]

Hi Jeremylin. 

Establishing boundaries will most likely make him rage.  Your first act should be to establish a safety plan... .and by that I mean having a rule that your wife will never be alone when your brother is around (I am assuming these situations will be very rare given his physical threats already), always having car keys and credit cards, etc, on you should you and your wife need to make an exit, if he should rage and/or increase his physical attack, be mentally prepared to call 911.

The above are not what I consider boundaries.  To me they are hard and fast rules that are immovable.
The line *is* etched in stone when dealing with his current behaviors.

You ask if he realizes what he is doing and I would say yes, on some level he does, but given his BPD he is unable to face the truth of his own behaviors and will push them away in his own mind so that it seems like he has no memory (and consciously he probably does not).  People with BPD do something called projection.  Search the site to read up on it as understanding this concept is vital for depersonalizing attacks and behaviors.  That he may not 'remember' does not give him a free pass.  He is more than capable of understanding bad behavior, he just can't see it in himself (a very different thing).

You can choose to ignore his texts if that is what makes you comfortable.  I tend to be more confrontational than most on this board and would advise that you text him back saying that he is not invited because of his treatment of your wife.  He will rage... .but isn't he already doing that?  what has avoiding confrontation achieved so far?  If he is violent to the point of attacking, then I can see some wisdom in being less confrontational, but if you are afraid of his yelling, behaving poorly, splitting you black, and continuing to do the same behaviors but at greater frequency, I would say you need to change your approach.  What you have been doing has not been working.  Avoidance rarely does when dealing with a family member with uBPD.  As far as I can tell, avoidance just causes a slow increase in the poor behaviors and draws out the pain over a longer period of time.

I am sure others will chime in with different opinions and advice.  We all can relate and we all care so keep posting.

[Jeremylin]

I never realized that there are other people going through similar situations as I am.  It is nice to hear from everyone and your posts have helped my wife and I. 

I think it's amazing how he can cause such chaos even when he is not around between my family.  My mother and uncle both called me tonight to tell me to invite him to the party and he will act fine and not bother anyone.  They told me that he is very sad for not being invited.  I understand he must be sad but we can not tolerate his behavior.  It's almost as if they were blaming me for the family issues.  Shouldn't he be the one to blame?  Why do I always have to compromise?

If he was invited he may behave but I can't take that chance with his history.  With him you never know.  It would ruin my wife's evening if he came because she would be scared the whole time.  I can't let this happen.

Part of me feels really bad for him and I don't want him to rage and do something stupid.  My parents keep telling me that he has a disease and we just have to take him for what he is. 

I dont know what to do anymore. 

[Naughty Nibbler]

HEY Jeremylin:   
It's unfortunate that your brother won't acknowledge a problem or get any treatment, but that seems to be common with many people with BPD.

My mother and uncle both called me tonight to tell me to invite him to the party and he will act fine and not bother anyone. My parents keep telling me that he has a disease and we just have to take him for what he is. 

The links below for FOG and a FOG DISCUSSION THREAD might help you work through some issues.

I've referenced a lot of links below for a crash course, in case you end up inviting your brother.  The Medium Chill and Robot Modes might be some skills for your wife to use.  If he can't get any reaction out of her, he may just leave her alone.

MEDIUM CHILL
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=114204.0

ROBOT MODE & MED CHILL
www.kellevision.com/narcissism/2014/04/how-to-protect-yourself-from-a-narcissists-manipulation.html

FAMILIAR FIGHTS - BPD DEFENSE MECHANISMS
https://www.BPDcentral.com/help-for-families/familiar-fights/

TIPS FOR COMMUNICATING WITH SOMEONE WITH BPD
www.BPDcentral.com/blog/?Tips-for-Communicating-with-Someone-With-Borderline-Disorder-8

A 3 Minute Lesson on Ending Conflict
https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

[Turkish]

It would ruin my wife's evening if he came because she would be scared the whole time.  I can't let this happen.

Good for you.  This is your boundary which aligns with your values.  Though tour viruses bother's behavior is mostly on the sly,  it's unacceptable. Though the validation tools will help,  it's better to give a short,  firm response (a smaller target). I wouldn't even bring her feelings up.  "No one intimidates or otherwise threatens my wife.  Period." It may have to be repeated,  verbatim (my T suggested this technique when asserting hard boundaries). Maybe this can be of additional help:

BOUNDARIES: Case studies

[hope2727]

I totally support your not inviting your brother to this party. Your wife deserves to feel safe ... .the end. This consequence may start the process of him knowing your boundary. Disrespect my wife you will be excluded. I would suggest you be prepared for him to show up anyway. My sister did things like this to me. If I am ever alone with her again I will video everything on my phone. I feel the same about my ex. Any time spent with him will be videoed for my safety. If he does nothing he has nothing to worry about. If he does something I will have evidence.

Good luck keep us posted.

[Notwendy]

Isn't it interesting how families work?   All family members seem to take on roles to keep a family in balance. When one family member changes, it changes the sense of balance, and so other members first attempt to draw that family member back into the role that kept the balance.

In my FOO, and my mother's FOO, this balance involved keeping the assumption that there was nothing wrong with my mother. Denial and secrecy about her behavior was a rule. So setting boundaries on her not only upset her, but threatened the illusion that nothing was wrong with her. We all appeased her to keep this illusion because we hoped ( it didn't work) it would keep her from raging.

When I started to set boundaries on her, it brought her disorder into the light. Like your family members, others rallied to get Notwendy back on board. I had normally been a compliant ( noodle) who agreed to any of their demands, and they didn't like this change. I started to receive letters telling me to stop upsetting her, that she was wonderful, and accusing me of "having issues" and that we had to have our happy family. Well, they may have been happy, but I was not. My mother had emotionally abused us kids, and somehow not allowing that was destroying our happy family?

My mothers FOO also has some idea that everyone has to be invited to everything. My mother has not gotten along with my father's side of the family. They included her and put up with her behavior while he was alive, but it was apparent they did not like each other.

Some years after he passed away, they invited us to an event. They had not spoken to my mother since the funeral. When my mother found out she was not invited, and we were attending she hit the roof, and gave me the ST for several weeks. She also called up and said she was not sending the kids presents anymore. ( I have told her the kids don't expect gifts- a card is fine).

My mother painted me black to her relatives, and they hardly speak to me. But any time we invite my mother to something she insists we include them. ( and I don't comply)  The reason they don't speak to me is because of her painting me black when I set boundaries on her. She convinced them I was the problem and told them not to speak to me. It amazed me that they went along with this. Like your brother, my mother appears to be unaware that this issue- that she wants me to fix- is the result of her behavior. However I don't believe she is entirely unaware. The preferred way in the family is to pretend that her behavior didn't happen. Kind of like pretending your brother's behavior doesn't happen.

But it does, and he should not be allowed to harm your wife in any way.

It may seem odd to you, but if keeping the family secret/balance includes denying that the disordered person is disordered, those who bring this issue into the light may be the ones who the others call disordered.

[Jeremylin]

Now what do I do if my brother comes to the party?  We sort of have a plan.  First we will have my parents escort him out and they will leave with him.  If that doesn't work my wife wants security to escort him out.  I am not sure what to do.  I don't think we should have security get involved unless there is an issue. The party is tonight wish me luck. 

[Notwendy]

I know that it makes us feel badly to get security involved, but this is a natural consequence to breaking rules/boundaries. It is our hesitancy to enforce boundaries that enables the unwanted behavior.

While it feels intuitively mean to do this, it is actually not nice to enable people. ( rescue them from the consequences of their behavior) as this takes away the learning experience.

This is actually a principle of parenting. Natural consequences is an important learning lesson. Now, with children, we have to protect them from harmful ones, while letting them learn. So for instance, if a child forgets his jacket- he will get cold. Parents tend to worry and make them bundle up, but if a child goes outside and feels the cold, he will likely remember his jacket.

Your family is actually enabling your brother by protecting him from the consequences of his behavior. If he physically harmed someone, he could be in jail. He needs to learn to not do this, or he could end up in jail. Enforcing your boundary by calling security may help teach him not to do this.

IMHO, your marriage is at stake here. Your wife needs you to stand up for her. I think if you do not, you are undermining your marriage.

It is your family that has put you in this uncomfortable bind- they want you to enable your brother for their own comfort. That isn't loving or caring to you or your wife.

I hope he does not show up as that is violating a boundary. People test boundaries, however, if you set a boundary and do not enforce it, the boundary becomes meaningless.

There could be a cost to this- it can upset your family, but it is your family who is making a request you can not comply with. It is truly unfortunate that the dynamics of our FOO's create these dilemmas, however, if we have no boundaries, we can not protect the values/relationships that are important to us.

I hope he does not show up, and all goes well.

[hope2727]

Security all the way. Actions have consequences. The end.

[Jeremylin]

Thank you for your responses.  You guys have helped so much!  Security seems like the correct response. 

[Jeremylin]

Thank you for your responses.  You guys have helped so much!  Security seems like the correct response.  

[Jeremylin]

My brother did not come to the party which was a pleasant surprise for me.  I thought he would show up. The party was a great time.  Part of me feels bad for him and that he wasn't invited. 

What do I do now?

 I do not think he learned his lesson. my mother told him why he wasn't invited but he does not recall the events as to why he was not invited.  He sent me a text message during the event stating that my wife is crazy and needs help.  I thought this would teach him a lesson but it hasn't. 

[Turkish]

Your mother is triangulating into the conflict.  Her intentions may be good (both of you are her boys after all), but coming from her is a filter.  What did you respond with?  Have you ever caught him being weird towards her, even verbally? 

[hope2727]

Ignore the text, do not discuss the situation with others, enjoy the wonderful memories of your special evening. Your brother knows right from wrong. He chooses wrong the end. Good job for staying strong.

[Notwendy]

The main point of the boundary was to protect what is valuable to you- your marriage, your wife, and your time together.

I don't know if your brother is capable of learning from the consequences of his behavior. Considering the fact that he is in his 40's not having learned what most kids learn in kindergarten- don't push people and be a bully- would make one question this. However, the only chance he would have at learning would be to not enable the behavior- and it may take repeated times to learn this.

Yet, the main focus on your action is about you- you protected this time, this space, your wife and it worked. He has a choice about how to behave, but that isn't up to you.

[Notwendy]

Like many women in her era, my mother lived at home until she married my father at a young age. Like the men in his era, he was the provider, protector and she was his housewife. We were not wealthy but he could afford household help, and so some of these duties were not her responsibility. I don't know when her BPD behaviors became apparent. Her FOO doesn't talk about them and neither did my father. Like many couples in their time- their engagement was short, they were young, BPD was not really known.

For decades, there seemed to be no boundaries or consequences to her behavior. She seemed to spend money without concern. When my father became ill, I tried to step in to help with the finances. My concern was that since she had not experienced managing money, or limits, that she wouldn't manage it well.

That naive step was actually stepping on to the drama triangle as rescuer, and the reaction was extreme. She yelled that I was forcing her to hand over her money, was going to steal it. I didn't know much about this drama triangle at the time, but I was horrified at the accusations and told them I would not do it. This translated into their assuming I was abandoning them at a time of need and they got angry about that.

The connection between my mother's behavior and my boundary didn't occur to them.

I don't think my mother has truly made the connection between her behavior and the consequences- my boundaries. But eventually, after not managing the money my father left her, she made this connection- when she spends it, the bank account gets lower, and there isn't more money coming in it. This is something that she didn't experience- her parents took care of her, and then, so did my father. There was always money for what she wanted, even if we had to do with less for her to have it, because we were not allowed to say no to her. So she has started to learn this lesson- a lesson she would not have learned had I stepped in to manage this for her. It was hard to know she was making poor decisions with it, but it was her money to do what she chose to do. And when she made the choices she saw the consequences.

I don't know what your brother is capable of learning, but being in a family that enables him because they don't want him to be upset doesn't allow him to learn from the consequences of his behavior.

Your job isn't to teach him though. Yours is to uphold and protect the woman you married from your brother's abuse.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Jeremylin: 

Everyone's situation is a little different, with different levels of BPD and behavior.  We each have to make our own personal decisions on what if right for us. 

One option would be for you to take some time and gain some comfort level with using some of the communication skills previously mentioned, noted on the right of this post or available in the lessons area.  You don't have to make an immediate absolute decision.  You can take a break from communications and re-establish it at a later time. (in a manner that is safe)

Do you want to maintain some level of interaction with your brother for yourself or because of the influence of others ? You could meet up with your brother, without your wife, on some occasion (s).  Your brother needs to understand that things he does makes your wife uncomfortable and threatened.  If he can't discuss it with you, then you need to do whatever is necessary to protect your wife.

Were you and your brother ever close? Could your brother feel abandoned in some way (as a result of your marriage?). What types of things has your brother done to you? 

Does your brother have a girlfriend?  What has his history been with girlfriends?  Was there ever a time when your wife didn't feel she was a target for your brother?