I Am In Relationship Limbo Right Now

[RDMercer55]

Hello all,

I have 27 years invested in our marriage with 3 adult children. The BPD tendencies have always been there, I just recently began to really recognize and move from denial into awareness about what's really causing my wife's behavior patterns. I had thought perhaps she was somewhat narcissistic and after studying more and talking to my therapist today, it is definitely BPD as the leading cause.

My wife went through some horrible episodes of abuse as a child that were handled even more horribly by her BPD/narcissistic mom. I only know snippets, she has always maintained that it scares her to even think about therapy and what might be brought to light. Stories of her grandmothers behavior as a psychological abuser are legendary within the family. So in essence my wife is the 3rd generation product of being told you're wrong, that didn't happen, you're never going to be good enough. She has told me often that I'm the only person that has really loved her and showed her that she has real value.

Yet from the beginning of our relationship there has been gas-lighting stories that change the facts of what happened, even the conversations are changed and sometimes completely fabricated in order to shift any perceived blame or responsibility back onto her. I find myself spending endless hours and energy trying to untangle events and words in our talks, arguments and disagreements that simply never took place or happened. We have had serious times talking about life, shared goals, state of our marriage, etc, and she will be completely humble and understanding. Times that I spent weeks carefully crafting my words, the timing and how things would be discussed. Afterwards there were times when I thought to myself, "Wow that went better than I expected and we're actually on the same page." Then later, days, weeks and even months later she will share reasons for her behaviors and she will have a "different version", where she describes me as yelling, demeaning her and it's a complete opposite of what I thought were breakthrough discussions. The last 2 years have gotten even more worse. My adult children have been victimized by the gas-lighting and the ridiculous behaviors. They are super worried about their mom and especially about the state of our marriage. Both my kids have talked to her about what they see and how it concerns them and they have pleaded with her to get help.
*When my wife feels like I am not feeding into her behavior and needs then she has in the past gravitated towards attention from others. I don't feel comfortable sharing more so I'll leave it at that.

I have worked through enough of the process to realize that my wife is getting worse and worse in her BPD symptoms and episodes. I'm also a Pastor. To the whole world my wife appears to be an angel. Her charisma is contagious. And while she's a beautiful and gifted, she scares the living hell out of me. I have no idea how she is going to respond or behave but I know from experience that if she doesn't get what she feels she needs, she's capable of ANYTHING.

Over the last month I fully moved into a place of detachment. Armed with my new found awareness, a few days ago I laid out some new boundaries in our relationship. She told me that she knew this was coming. Now I feel like I'm playing a waiting game. I have 0 expectations for her to change event though she promises and vows to go into therapy. Actually, I have told her that I have chosen to love her unconditionally. I will always love and respect her as the mother of my children. I have fully forgiven her for the pain she has cause me and our family. I can honestly say I have no bitterness or malice against her. I don't even understand that part, but it's where I'm at.  I also expressed that the unconditional love means I won't dictate to you what your path is going to be but I do know mine and nothing or no one will keep me from moving forward and healing. So that may mean that you stay where you're at or continue to get worse as I continue to grow and move forward. It may mean that we're no longer able to be in relationship together. I even released her to go and discover herself if that's what she feels she needs to do. That killed me, but I knew I had to do it. Even as our marriage hangs in limbo, she has moments where she lashes out. Still, I have always felt like eventually she would devalue and discard me/reject me and move on with her own version of what happened.

I have a few weeks off right now. Time of self care and do alot of soul searching about what the next steps are. I'm pretty much ready for anything. My whole life as I've known it could be and probably is going to come to and end. She is very scared of going into therapy and my own therapist tells me she has MAJOR MAJOR work to do if she wants to experience some kind of healing and recovery. I just don't know if I can live this way anymore... .I am absolutely exhausted... .

Thank you for letting me share and any feedback is welcomed and appreciated.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[ArleighBurke]

Welcome!

My wife is also high functioning - I'm not sure anyone would believe how she behaves at home.

I see lots of good in what you say, and some worrying things. You say you have laid out boundaries, but you have "0 expectation that she is going to change". Boundaries are NOT a way to get our partners to change. But you seem to know that when you say "she can go her own direction". Can you confirm? What "boundaries" have you set?

It is good that you are deciding where you want to go in life. Please know that uncertainty is earth shattering for a BPD. You have told her that you'll be with her and love her forever - that's good. But if YOU change, no matter what you say, she'll worry (because change is unsettling and unsettling is dangerous for a BPD). You've also told her that you may not stay together - which is also unsettling for her. Tread carefully!

Validation is a good conversational technique. Do you use it?

[RDMercer55]

Welcome!

My wife is also high functioning - I'm not sure anyone would believe how she behaves at home.

I see lots of good in what you say, and some worrying things. You say you have laid out boundaries, but you have "0 expectation that she is going to change". Boundaries are NOT a way to get our partners to change. But you seem to know that when you say "she can go her own direction". Can you confirm? What "boundaries" have you set?

It is good that you are deciding where you want to go in life. Please know that uncertainty is earth shattering for a BPD. You have told her that you'll be with her and love her forever - that's good. But if YOU change, no matter what you say, she'll worry (because change is unsettling and unsettling is dangerous for a BPD). You've also told her that you may not stay together - which is also unsettling for her. Tread carefully!

Validation is a good conversational technique. Do you use it?

These a good thoughts to remember... .Yes when we sat down to talk, I first let her speak about her concerns and I validated her by expressing to her that it was important to me to make sure that she felt she was being heard. I know that when I share with someone I want to know that they have truly heard me. So we did that first. And then I would repeat back to her what I thought I was hearing her say so she could confirm. Of course the things she was sharing are not even real, they did not happen, there was ALOT of projecting and inflating real events and chats to make it fit her emotions.

Now as things come up, I don't even try any longer to argue about those things with her. My general response is, "I'm sorry you feel that way, it's tough when you feel... .(repeat back what she has said her issue with me is)... .let me think about what you're sharing."
I have just recently learned with BPD there is no winning her to the truth or getting her to use her wise mind instead of living in her emotional mind. We have a 24 yr old daughter who suffers from the same thing and she went through DBT for 2 years while I had my whole family in therapy just to learn how to talk to her and engage her. My wife has just continued to get worse, the past 2 years especially, we have seen her turn into another person at times. It's scary.

As far as boundaries, you too also know that this is like being the parent in the relationship. It's exhausting. So the boundaries are meant to bring safety to each of us as they reflect our value and truth we are attempting to live out. My boundaries now are refusing to make all of her appointments, take care of her personal life/matters, she has horrible phone manners and seldom checks her phone messages, its like her phone only works one way from her! So people, lots of people have resorted to sending messages to her through me, I can't do that anymore. Don't get me wrong, there are still other things that I do as a love deposit, like fill her car with gas, make her breakfast, etc. Also our sexual life is on hold. I had to set that boundary because now she is implying very hurtful statements like, "I only want to be her for sex... ." or "To you it's not making love it's only sex... " etc," It's just not true. She has always been a very sexual person and often times will be adventurous or want that and then blame me afterwards. Honestly right now, I have no desire for that from her. The way she has handled it is a huge turn off.

I also proposed that we talk about and think about dual finances. It's gotten so bad that I have to limit her to taking x amount out of the bank for groceries but she has never had any interest in understanding our finances and constantly makes decisions that undermine all of our goals that we have set in place after much prayer and discussion. That too is exhausting. But like you said you have to tread carefully. This one topic alone sent her spiraling thinking that if we split our finances we're just one step closer to divorce. She cannot she either one of us with kind of independence working together.

Our adults kids have also talked with her about considering therapy and have shared with her the behaviors that concern them as well. I know that in the past week she has had thoughts about leaving and staying with her sister for a while and even suicidal thoughts. She says she has had those thoughts because she feels like she is slowly losing her family.

[BowlOfPetunias]

I'm also a Pastor. To the whole world my wife appears to be an angel. Her charisma is contagious. And while she's a beautiful and gifted, she scares the living hell out of me. I have no idea how she is going to respond or behave but I know from experience that if she doesn't get what she feels she needs, she's capable of ANYTHING.

Is the fact that you are a Pastor keeping you from ending the marriage when you would otherwise do so?  Would there be stigma and a loss of respect within your community if the Pastor did not/was not able to "set a good example" by having a solid marriage--at least to outside appearances?  Are you afraid of her launching a smear campaign that would discredit your position as a religious leader?

[RDMercer55]

I'm also a Pastor. To the whole world my wife appears to be an angel. Her charisma is contagious. And while she's a beautiful and gifted, she scares the living hell out of me. I have no idea how she is going to respond or behave but I know from experience that if she doesn't get what she feels she needs, she's capable of ANYTHING.

Is the fact that you are a Pastor keeping you from ending the marriage when you would otherwise do so?  Would there be stigma and a loss of respect within your community if the Pastor did not/was not able to "set a good example" by having a solid marriage--at least to outside appearances?  Are you afraid of her launching a smear campaign that would discredit your position as a religious leader?

Good questions... .I don't know that if I wasn't a Pastor that I would just end it. I do have a tremendous amount of compassion for the trauma that was done to her as a young child.

Yes in the general Christian community there would be a stigma, at my church however, and you would have to be there to understand, probably not. It's a group of people that are not pretentious in the least. I do think about the incredible weight of knowing that so many people look to us and our marriage for inspiration and encouragement and it would be devastating to them for sure.

Today she made an appt for counseling, I know it is to tell her side and get validation, but I do expect some kind of a smear campaign. She has always been very considerate of my rep and integrity but this time, it's just too big for her to handle. I've been in so much pain and exhaustion that I really do not care anymore what gets said.

The Pastor part is still confusing to me. Since I'm now completely drained and understanding her behavior will continue, I don't even know if I can go back and effectively Pastor. Tough decisions to make.

[ArleighBurke]

Now as things come up, I don't even try any longer to argue about those things with her. My general response is, "I'm sorry you feel that way, it's tough when you feel... .(repeat back what she has said her issue with me is)... .let me think about what you're sharing."
I have just recently learned with BPD there is no winning her to the truth or getting her to use her wise mind instead of living in her emotional mind.

This is good behaviour (truth is pointless to a BPD!).

But how long ago did you learn about BPD? How long ago did you start using boundaries? How long ago did you stop argueing and start validating? I ask because these are all great things for you to do, but this change in your behaviour will be unsettling for her - which may be causing a lot of her "acting out". It may take some time for her to adjust to a new dynamic - often many months.

Also our sexual life is on hold. I had to set that boundary because now she is implying very hurtful statements

This is very tricky. I generally believe that you should not let her dictate your behaviour - because then you are living in "her world". I generally say you should do/act/behave the way you believe you should. I guess the philisophy is that your SOLID GOODNESS is supposted to be stronger than her TURBULENT CRAZINESS. (Kind of like "feal the fear and do it anyway" - by not doing it you are saying that the emotions win... .)  But I understand where you are coming from. If she is using sex as a weapon then it makes sense, but I don't like where this is headed... .

[RDMercer55]

Now as things come up, I don't even try any longer to argue about those things with her. My general response is, "I'm sorry you feel that way, it's tough when you feel... .(repeat back what she has said her issue with me is)... .let me think about what you're sharing."
I have just recently learned with BPD there is no winning her to the truth or getting her to use her wise mind instead of living in her emotional mind.

This is good behaviour (truth is pointless to a BPD!).

But how long ago did you learn about BPD? How long ago did you start using boundaries? How long ago did you stop argueing and start validating? I ask because these are all great things for you to do, but this change in your behaviour will be unsettling for her - which may be causing a lot of her "acting out". It may take some time for her to adjust to a new dynamic - often many months.

Also our sexual life is on hold. I had to set that boundary because now she is implying very hurtful statements

This is very tricky. I generally believe that you should not let her dictate your behaviour - because then you are living in "her world". I generally say you should do/act/behave the way you believe you should. I guess the philisophy is that your SOLID GOODNESS is supposted to be stronger than her TURBULENT CRAZINESS. (Kind of like "feal the fear and do it anyway" - by not doing it you are saying that the emotions win... .)  But I understand where you are coming from. If she is using sex as a weapon then it makes sense, but I don't like where this is headed... .

The BPD has been going on our entire marriage... .For about 6 months or so I've been in awareness mode about what exactly is going on... .it has intensified over the past 3 months... .I can see your point about the new dynamic because some of that is happening... .she knows things are different now and she's trying to brave it but I know it's only a matter of time before she reacts and feels abandoned or not good enough... .There already been 1 major episode so I do expect more to come... .The problem for me is not arguing back... .I have no energy or desire to argue back... .Just afraid it's going to drive me further into detachment... .Detachment has been the only thing that has saved me mentally, allowed me to self care and find the strength to stay for now... .

The sex life aspect is tricky... .That's where she feels most validated but her disorder also has no finally spilled over into that area of our lives so she is distorting trying to blame me... .Sorry but I can't do that anymore... .I just cannot give her something that she will use as a weapon to make me jump through hoops with again... .

[JohnLove]

Hello RDMercer55, sorry to hear of your suffering. Something I should add. BPD comprises a component of narcissism that is at least 25% and sometimes more.

pwBPD love to maintain appearances. I believe being authentic is more important.

Know that narcissism is generally regarded as being untreatable and in my opinion is the single greatest harmful factor with comorbid BPD. It is often everyone else around them who seeks help or "treatment".

I empathise with your "extreme" levels of compassion for her. It is something that may have bought you together or be keeping you stuck. You may consider exercising a little for yourself.

[ArleighBurke]

For about 6 months or so I've been in awareness mode about what exactly is going on... .it has intensified over the past 3 months... .I can see your point about the new dynamic because some of that is happening... .

It may take up to 12 months for her to really get "comfortable" with a new you... .

Detachment has been the only thing that has saved me mentally

That saves us all. Detachment is the key - to be able to "watch" her and not take anything to heart. Where you are at the moment is on a good path - a path that we all take when we discover BPD. A path that can lead you to staying or leaving - it will be your choice.

Again: do not make decisions about the marriage yet. Use the next 6 months to keep learning about BPD, to work on your own behaviours, to learn self care, validation, SET, to set boundaries. These skills will help in this relationship, but also in your next if that is the outcome.

[RDMercer55]

Thank you all again for your challenging questions and kind words of encouragement through this process... .I am going to continue to educate and self care not only for myself but to also help my adult children. Looks like my son will defintly be seeking counseling therapy as well so I am happy for him.

Have a great weekend!