Accused on an almost daily basis of affairs, lies and infidelity

[La Carotte]

I'm a bit embarrassed to be posting this as I posted something similar in November and then went back... .again and again...

But today, after nearly three years of being accused on an almost daily basis of affairs, lies and infidelity of thought and deed, not one single bit of which is true, after being ditched on a weekly basis and accepting it was all part of the push pull and so just putting up with it, and letting go whatever had happened, even the stealing of my diary, the hacking of my email, the smashing of my things, the smearing of my name, the abusive language, the name calling, the stalking, the threats of police... .after all of that, I got proof, finally, of what I've suspected for a long time. She's been having an emotional affair with a woman who she once said she was going to leave me for, then hid from because said woman was "a sexual predator", and who she's been "friends" with again for the past 10 months.

Of course, there is a fine line between friendship and emotional infidelity, and I don't believe that they've had sex. But she has known all along that the "friendship" has caused me problems, because she has prioritised her over me many times, and because of their past, and at the same time I'm not even allowed to do  my shopping in a supermarket where someone I had a two week fling with before I met her works.

She has been saying things to this woman about me that are really not appropriate to tell anyone, she has been flirting with this woman and she has met her behind my back and not been honest about their relationship. Not on.

And actually, the worse thing for me is that when I challenged her, she said, yes, shes her best friend, she is worth ten of me, she doesn't want anything to do with me because she is sick of my lies and nastiness. She then locked me out of her house so I had to sit in the snow in my pyjamas while she got ready to drive me home and said she'd only drive me if I sat in silence. As she lives in the middle of nowhere and I had no money and was in my nightclothes, I had to agree.

This is the short version of what happened. And the really awful thing? When I told my teenage daughter, she said, "I don't know why you think this is the worst thing she's done, this is nowhere near the worst thing." I try and keep most things from my daughter, but I have told her this and promised not to go back. I have to stick to this.

So. This now has to be the end, no matter how utterly devastating and hard it is for me. There really can be no going back from this. One of the things that kept me going back was that I truly believed that she loved me like no other, and her paranoid jealousies (which are the cause of 99.99% of our "fights" were as a result of her being so insecure because of the depth of feelings she has for me. But actually, she clearly has a depth of feeling for this other woman too, and I know myself well enough to know I can't be ok with that. I don't want to be ok with that.

Despite this, because I'm so programmed to try and make things right, and reframe everything she's done to make it ok for us to go on, I know that almost certainly my brain will concoct reasons to contact her and try and make it ok. Even immediately after she dropped me at my house, I sent her a couple of conciliatory messages, for which I hate myself a little bit.

So one thing that I have done is send a text to important people in my life telling them, for the first time, of what's been going on so that I can make myself accountable - I'll be embarrassed to say to them that I've gone back after telling them what she's done. Even though I've spent the day hoping she'll turn up and apologise and make it all fine again.

And I'm here asking you all for support, because I don't actually believe I can do this, but I know I must.

Thank you for reading.

FIT

[once removed]

hey La Carotte  

im sorry to hear that things have worked out this way. its a very difficult decision that youre making  .

I'm a bit embarrassed to be posting this as I posted something similar in November and then went back... .again and again...

i encourage you not to beat yourself up on this. youre in good company; 62% of relationships recycle irrespective of BPD.

I'll be embarrassed to say to them that I've gone back after telling them what she's done.

Despite this, because I'm so programmed to try and make things right, and reframe everything she's done to make it ok for us to go on, I know that almost certainly my brain will concoct reasons to contact her and try and make it ok. Even immediately after she dropped me at my house, I sent her a couple of conciliatory messages, for which I hate myself a little bit.

... .

Even though I've spent the day hoping she'll turn up and apologise and make it all fine again.

i suggest exploring, perhaps on paper, the reasons you want out of this relationship, as a counterbalance to these thoughts. she may well turn up and apologize. you may choose to accept it or not, but accepting a persons apology does not mean excusing it, accepting, or tolerating abuse. shaming yourself out of contacting her or getting back with her is a shaky foundation. its a little like trying to lose weight by telling your friends to call you fat every time you want to eat. get to the root of these thoughts, their triggers, what they mean to you, and how you might counter balance them. if you were to return to the relationship at this point (as you fear you might) you might feel even more embarrassed, isolated, ashamed, and petrified with indecision.

So. This now has to be the end, no matter how utterly devastating and hard it is for me. There really can be no going back from this. One of the things that kept me going back was that I truly believed that she loved me like no other, and her paranoid jealousies (which are the cause of 99.99% of our "fights" were as a result of her being so insecure because of the depth of feelings she has for me.

Despite this, because I'm so programmed to try and make things right,

where might you have learned this programming, La Carotte? do you believe you deserve better? what might this relationship be providing that is missing?

ps. i dont mean to discourage you from seeking the support of your friends and family. that was a great step that im certain took courage.

[La Carotte]

Thanks for your reply, once removed. Please can you explain a little more what you mean by:

get to the root of these thoughts, their triggers, what they mean to you, and how you might counter balance them.

I presume by 'the root' you mean why I have them, FOO stuff, etc? I have often thought about that, and believe that my FOO was ok, and I'm never sure how, even if it wasn't, being able to link the thoughts of now with things that happened in the past is helpful in changing the pain of now?

Please could you also clarify what you mean by the next three points in your sentence?

Thank you, I appreciate your time

FIT

[Penelope35]

Hi FIT. You shouldn't be embarrased about posting anything on this board. You know we have all been there and recycled and broke our boundaries and promises to our selves many many times... .

Reading your post reminded me of how I was feeling about a couple of months ago. I can understand your devastation and despair. I know how hard it is to be dealing with these emotions. I also know it's extremely hard to go to no contact when in this kind of emotional state. What I would tell you is to please start processing that this relationship needs to be over. It doesn't make you happy. It is nothing like what you used to think love is. When you start accepting that YOU need to end it because it's bad for you (and your teen), then the way you react will start to change. You will probably talk again, maybe she will try to make up when she needs you back and I know that this possibility probably gives you some comfort as you are reading it. BUT please try and stay focused at what history has showed you about the kind of relationship you can have with this person. If you know you are not strong enough to stick to no contact at this point, the "do not resuscitate" approach may be more appropriate. If you have any contact with her just please try to keep in mind that this relationship needs to be over. Whatever you say, whatever happens just please try to keep in mind that your goal or hope should not be to fix it. Your goal should be to slowly accept that it needs to be over. I promise you that if you manage to overcome this first phase and the unbearable pain it includes without recycling it will slowly start getting easier.

Hung in there. You are not alone

[once removed]

I presume by 'the root' you mean why I have them, FOO stuff, etc?

not necessarily. i dont have much in the way of complex FOO stuff and it didnt really connect with my relationship. there were, in my case, other mental and emotional hooks.

Please can you explain a little more what you mean by:

get to the root of these thoughts, their triggers, what they mean to you, and how you might counter balance them.

you know yourself better than anyone here. in essence, i can only speculate about your triggers, and prod a little bit in terms of possibilities and things to consider. for example, when i ask "do you believe you deserve better", some faced with your situation may not. you may or may not. you also may consciously feel you do, but do you live and act as if you believe it?

if you do, despite "an almost daily basis of affairs, lies and infidelity of thought and deed, not one single bit of which is true, after being ditched on a weekly basis and accepting it was all part of the push pull and so just putting up with it, and letting go whatever had happened, even the stealing of my diary, the hacking of my email, the smashing of my things, the smearing of my name, the abusive language, the name calling, the stalking, the threats of police... ." then something is off. these relationships tend to have their emotional and mental hooks, unique to each of us. they feed something in us. when we find it, theres a real freedom in the discovery.

"One of the things that kept me going back was that I truly believed that she loved me like no other, and her paranoid jealousies (which are the cause of 99.99% of our "fights" were as a result of her being so insecure because of the depth of feelings she has for me" is a very good example. i know in my case, my exes insecurity and clinginess, nuts as it drove me, made me feel safe and secure, something id never felt in a previous romantic relationship. can you relate?

id particularly focus on your mention of being programmed. programming is learned behavior. im asking where you might have learned it, or to elaborate on what you mean by it. its an impossible responsibility for a person to make everything right.

[La Carotte]

Penelope35, thank you.

She just called me and I ignored it. Same old same old. I'm now in the usual space of thinking/dreading/hoping she'll turn up. She often does.

BUt. Even if she does, even if she apologises for this particular thing, it won't change three years of abuse. And as once removed said,

she may well turn up and apologize. you may choose to accept it or not, but accepting a persons apology does not mean excusing it, accepting, or tolerating abuse.

and as you say

try and stay focused at what history has showed you about the kind of relationship you can have with this person.

History shows that  she is unable to sustain any good intentions about us/me for more than a few days. She does have good intentions, I'm sure of that. and she does love me, I'm sure of that. But the daily reality of the past two years has been one of more misery and angst and upset and fury and frustration and anger and despair than anything else, 99% because of her inability to sustain it and then my reactions, which I know have often not helped anything. That is the truth. And so why on earth would it be anything other than my own brand of crazy to imagine that even if she turned up with a huge bouquet, tickets for a cruise and a million apologies that the changes needed by either of us to alter that reality in the future would have been made since this morning?

Plus, she's still spent ten months going behind my back with a woman in a way that she knows completely is hurtful to me. No apology is going to change that fact.

Sorry, that sounded a bit ranty. I guess I'm hurt and angry. This DOES need to end, for me and my daughter, who told me today that she has lost respect for me.

[La Carotte]

Thanks once removed. Everything you say makes sense. My head is far too fuzzy after my day today to even begin to think about these things, but I absolutely want to do work on myself, partially so that I don't do this again (I had another abusive relationship 15 years ago, much of which I've blocked, but I'm pretty sure it was similar) and partially so that I don't end up thinking it's been a waste of three years of my life. One of the things that sustains me on here is reading how people have turned their experiences into growth and now feel as though their lives are better as a result. I want to be able to say that. I can't quite imagine it just now, but at one time I couldn't imagine being able to drive and I can now.

Thank you

[once removed]

My head is far too fuzzy after my day today to even begin to think about these things

i completely understand that sentiment, finallyitstime . take your time and be gentle with yourself.

Sorry, that sounded a bit ranty. I guess I'm hurt and angry. This DOES need to end, for me and my daughter, who told me today that she has lost respect for me.

thats pretty rough to hear from anyone  . abuse in relationships tends to be insidious. no one sets out to be abused and people rarely set out to abuse (in romantic relationships). its a dynamic that develops over time and its very difficult to understand unless youve been there. your daughter probably meant her best when she said that. just know that youre not alone in this. we do understand 

[La Carotte]

Thank you, that means a lot to me. 

[La Carotte]

Hello again

Just wanted to say that I'm at the end of NC day 2 and am feeling ok. In fact I had a moment today, for only a few seconds, but a moment anyway, where I thought, "I'm free, how exciting!" Of course the next moment I was in tears and panicking but that moment happened.

And even though I've just seen the most beautiful sunset and all i could do was feel sad and wonder whether she was watching it too, I knew I wasn't going to make contact.

I've been thinking about what once removed said:

These relationships tend to have their emotional and mental hooks, unique to each of us. they feed something in us. when we find it, theres a real freedom in the discovery.

"One of the things that kept me going back was that I truly believed that she loved me like no other, and her paranoid jealousies (which are the cause of 99.99% of our "fights" were as a result of her being so insecure because of the depth of feelings she has for me" is a very good example. i know in my case, my exes insecurity and clinginess, nuts as it drove me, made me feel safe and secure, something id never felt in a previous romantic relationship. can you relate?

I absolutely totally relate to this. But what I can't get past is how knowing that helps me? All it does is make me think that yes, I felt like that and it may not have been healthy, but it was lovely to feel like that, and I'd never felt like it in 35 years of adult relationships so I'm pretty sure I won't again, and I know I should be able to provide myself with that safe and secure and loved feeling but how on earth does one do that? And besides, I want to feel that someone loves me that way, surely that isn't wrong? And then I feel alone and panicky and desperate to make it ok. Which I do know i can't do, if I cojld, I would have by now. I do at least get that bit.

Any advice / further prompts/ explanations /experiences would be appreciated, I really want to give myself the best chance of getting away and growth.

Thank you.

[once removed]

I absolutely totally relate to this. But what I can't get past is how knowing that helps me?

it helps you less in an immediate sense, and more in terms of the bigger picture: detaching, seeing the relationship with a healthy and balanced perspective, and as we often say, slowly, as we are ready, turning the focus to ourselves, especially if we want to have healthy relationships going forward.

but it was lovely to feel like that, and I'd never felt like it in 35 years of adult relationships so I'm pretty sure I won't again, and I know I should be able to provide myself with that safe and secure and loved feeling but how on earth does one do that?

in a word, practice. do you love yourself? do you practice self love? thats the short answer. the longer answer tends to be unique to each of us and our issues. its also important to keep in mind that this is all very fresh and raw for you. give yourself time to grieve first. the answers, the aha moments, the self work, it all lends itself better as we work through the grief.

And besides, I want to feel that someone loves me that way, surely that isn't wrong?

we often come here with some misguided ideas about healthy relationships and love, or even more insidiously, what we are attracted to, what feels familiar, what makes us come alive. i can tell you that no, i do not want to be loved the way my ex did, but i certainly did at the time. if youd asked me at the time why i loved my ex, my answer, essentially would have boiled down to "because she loves me". you want someone to love you for you. being possessive of you is not loving you for you, its based on fear and insecurity. not to mention, as possessive and frankly obsessive as my ex was, she cheated multiple times, and quickly entered a new relationship. lets just say that possessiveness makes for instability. i can also tell you that with work, the kind of person, and the kind of dynamic i was attracted to has changed, and i think most of us have to work at that to some extent.

with regard to these feelings of needing to make everything okay, you might consider the following book. ive not read it, but people that identify with that need have gotten an awful lot out of it: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OCXHRC/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?ie=UTF8&btkr=1

i am also, very soon, going to be doing a series of threads based on the following article we have here. you might watch for those. https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a117.htm

i should also ask, have you considered seeing a therapist? highly and frequently recommended around here.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey FIT, Sorry to hear all that you are going through.  You could liken it to withdrawal from an addiction.  Many here recycle, me included, to escape the pain of withdrawal.  Yet one has to go through the "ring of fire" in order to get to the other side.  It's a rough road, but leads to greater happiness, which in my view is what its all about.  Hang in there.

LuckyJim

[Beacher]

So sorry you are going through this. There's nothing worse, as I have recently experienced, than having an affair ( in whatever form) thrown in on top of trying to deal with BPD behavior.

I am in recovery and believe strongly in ' keeping it green'. The next time you think there is a glimmer of a chance that you can be happy with her, remember sitting in the snow in your pjs. Most people would not even do that to their dog.

Good luck and stay on board

[La Carotte]

Thanks guys. I'm feeling utterly miserable this morning. But I know that there is no chance of this being okay. Beacher, you're right, thinking  of me sitting in the snow is the thing that keeps me going.

Ex has a chronic disease and two nights ago contacted me to say she was really ill, would I skype? So I did, becasue I was worried about her, if course, and after ten minutes of chat about nothing in particular, all fine (like nothing had happened) she suddenly started going on about my work clothes I was wearing (completely conservative, she's seen them a hundred times) and said basically I looked like a slag. At which point I put the phone down and sent her a text saying please contact another friend nect time she's sick as I won't be on the receiving end of her offensive comments again. Then I blocked her. Lesson learned.

I kept her blocked for 24 hours, which is my personal record but it drives me mad wondering if she's getting in touch. I think  I'm much better just deleting texts as they come in without reading first. That's key. I had 6 emails from her the evening of the Skype and didnt read them.

Hard stuff. I hate it. I just wish it didn't have to be like this. But it does.

Once removed- thank you, you've given me a lot to think about. I'm speaking to a T this afternoon. I saw her months ago so she knows the situation. Am looking forward to it

[zeus123]

FiallyItsTime, it was great what you did and put the phone down and blocked her. i wish you could block her for 24 years instead of 24 hours. and make sure you delete her emails and do not read them. there is nothing good that comes out from contacting a BPD after the relationship ends, it only prolongs your pain and allow someone who completely impaired to manipulate you. stay strict NC forever, you can't help her nor you can repair archaic wounds left over from childhood abandonment by her mother. every time you contact her or answer her calls/massages you are giving away your power, and besides she won't think highly of you. the more you show that you want to help her and that you care/love her the more she hates you for it. stay away. stay NC!

[La Carotte]

Thanks zeus123.

I've realised that something that is different this time is that I can't think of one single thing that I could say to make this okay. Normally by this time in the cycle im coming up with all kinds of things that This Time will be the one thing I say that Makes Her Realise... .   I'm still currently fighting the urge to contact her, but won't, because I know that there's nothing I can do to make this okay.

And, equally important, I know that even if she contacts me or turns up, whatever she says, she will not be able to sustain any good intentions. Even if she really really wants to, which I know she does sometimes. She isn't able to. And that's very sad but the reality.

When I think of myself sitting in the snow in my pyjamas, and then being told I'm not allowed to speak, I cringe. Im going to revisit this picture and the associated feelings as often as I need and I know this will help me stay away.

I am so grateful for this site and you all.

[purekalm]

La Carotte,

 You are doing so well! To be able to block her after such a short time, and keep it going should show yourself that you CAN do this!      I know it's extremely hard and painful, but you really do deserve better. You deserve someone who will love you for you and not what they or can not get out of you. A healthy love that gives you space to be who you are and has trust. Don't just give yourself a reminder of how bad things are, but also try to remind yourself that you have value and therefore should be treated fairly.

I was pointed to the lessons on the side here so I'd ask you to do the same. I was angry when I first got here and I didn't want to read some more crap about how I could help myself, I just wanted it all to stop and have someone listen. But, understanding the cycles of grief is important, because it truly is a grieving process, a process of letting go and finding yourself again. It is also at your own pace, give yourself time. I didn't at first and was more frustrated.

After letting go for good, I recycled one last time with my husband because he actually started doing the things he said he would. He always said good things, but I never believed him because his actions proved otherwise. And, because I had already let go and dealt with all the excruciating pain, when he proved he only wanted me because I was doing better without him, it didn't hurt as bad and I finally stopped trying to make excuses for why I could be treated this way. It wasn't my fault. Yes, I have my faults, but I deserved at least, mutual respect, and I wasn't afforded it. Now, even though I still have to live with him for financial reasons I love him as another human being. I personally don't believe we ever stop loving, it just changes. I don't expect anything out of him but his usual, because that's all he's ever done. Our 7 year anniversary will be in March, and I already know at some point this year we will be divorced, but I refuse to blame myself for his actions anymore. I know what real love is, because I love my son just for the fact he exists. It may be a lot of challenges sometimes with his autism, but I don't love him any less if he hits or yells or slams a door. BUT, the healthy thing is, I don't let him get away with it either and talk to him and let him know those behaviors are not ok. If they aren't ok for my son, then why would I let my husband, who professes to love me SO much, treat me a million times worse? I think there are lessons we can gain from everyone around us if we look. 

I hope that you keep posting here, because it really does help. A little for accountable, and a LOT for people who understand and won't judge you for recycling, and give the best advice they know how. 

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting someone to love you, cherish you, be there for you and treat you well. But what I've learned is, do you treat yourself that way? Do you love yourself? Do you cherish yourself by taking care of your needs? Do you treat yourself well? I couldn't say yes when I came here, and I'm still working on it, but I am making progress and I know you can too! We should be able to fill the need for love within ourselves, so that when that special someone comes along, they will ADD to our love instead of be the only source of it. You won't be in bondage that way, because you will love yourself enough to be able to say "this isn't ok" and walk away before any real damage is done.

Thank you so much for sharing! 

[Beacher]

Damn social media! Sometimes I wish we were back to good ol telephones and not have to go through this heartache of blocking, trying not to take a peek at what our BPDs are up to or saying, it's too tempting and can be very hurtful.

I have been suffering over 10 years of trying to deal and forgive but am certain I will die if I stay in this marriage. I truly love him but he will never get well knowing he can come back again with declarations of love and promises of starting over. I worry about him but am also finally not sick to my stomach or weepy. I certainly have my moments but they are becoming farther and farther in between.

One more story about keeping it green... .

My friend was in an abusive relationship. He slammed her the floor so hard her phone in her back pocket butt dialed me. My machine clicked on and I heard her screaming and him threatening to kill her. I called her back and had her come spend the night, and we listened to the tape. She went back to him a few months later and I said " I still have the recording, anytime you need a reminder". She eventually divorced him and said " I'll never forget that tape". There are no coincidences in life!

Stay strong, Spring is around the corner and with it hope.

[La Carotte]

Hello purekalm and Beacher, thank you for your very uplifting messages., I really do appreciate your support. I find the hardest time is just now when I wake up and am desperate for our usual morning texts... .This is usually when I give in and contact her so it really helps to have something from you to remind me why I'm not going to. Im about to start day 3 NC, mixed feelings really- horrified this is what my life has come to, but completely determined to stick with it.

purekalm- I have often thought along the same lines as you said about your son/husband. I'm a special ed teacher and appreciate every bit of effort my kids make, and understand why they behave the way they do sometimes (just as with ex) but I would never accept behaviour from my kids that I let ex get away with over and over.

Beacher- I'm quite pleased with myself because I never ever look on her social media. It drove me mad when we were together seeing all the nonsense she put, portraying herself as the most positive motivational person out there, and seeing her receive adoration from her followers becasue she's just so spiritual and inspirational. Yeugh!

Anyway, on with day 3... I will do this. And then tomorrow will be day 4. It's the only way.

Thank you!

[Penelope35]

I find the hardest time is just now when I wake up and am desperate for our usual morning texts... .This is usually when I give in and contact her so it really helps to have something from you to remind me why I'm not going to. Im about to start day 3 NC, mixed feelings really- horrified this is what my life has come to, but completely determined to stick with it.

Hey FIT. Mornings were the worst for me too. He still is the first thing on my mind when I wake up but nothing like it used to be. I used to wake up with a very heavy feeling and kind of had to remind my self of our current situation. It got better though. Much better I would say. You just have to overcome and beat this first very difficult phase. But you can do it!

[once removed]

I find the hardest time is just now when I wake up and am desperate for our usual morning texts... .This is usually when I give in and contact her

important to keep in mind, incredibly difficult to see: these are very stressful, highly charged, and volatile relationships, and they usually involve nearly constant communication if not routine. as you grieve, your psyche is processing, but your body is also physically adjusting. give that time. after my breakup i had daily anxiety attacks within half an hour to an hour of waking up. the fact that while i was with her, id wake up with dread and fear, the expectation that i was supposed to let her know i was awake/what i was doing and what might happen if i didnt probably had something to do with that. the anxiety attacks lasted for a couple of months. i dont say that to scare you, just to point out the impact that the stress of these relationships has on our bodies. i recommend building some kind of routine, of pretty much any kind, around these triggering times as a means of reprogramming. you might even try a quick blast of cold water.

[La Carotte]

Thank you for your comments about first thing in the morning, Penelope and once removed, I find it reassuring.

So it's a week since I decided this time it was definitely over and I'm feeling quite positive with myself. I didn't hear anything from her all week and didn't feel even tempted to contact her, although I wrote several messages not intending to send them, and was on high alert for her getting in touch.

Yesterday evening she did with a general "I'm sad, sorry for my part... .wish you well" text. Standard stuff, which I returned out of a sense of good manners.

But of course this opened the flood gates... .

The short version is: she was clearly looking for what normally happens- we talk, act like nothing happened and be fine. I couldn't do that and explained why (emotional affair, out in snow in pyjamas, then calling me a slag, not one moments acceptance of responsibility from her) Asked her to not contact me and said I'd do the same, is the only way.

This then caused a barrage of calls and texts over night,  all ignored by me, managed to avoid reading most if them, although there was a mention of having me arrested - so I guessed she wasn't accepting responsibility.

This morning she start d asking to meet- for closure and so we could both finally  tell truth. I refused as I've told the truth all along and shed refused to believe it so why would now be any different. The things she started accusing me of then reminded me exactly of why I couldn't be in this relationship any more. I said that I'm sorry but im not meeting and am now not replying again.

Another dozen texts and calls, avoided reading most but I gather it's about me having no respect for her the whole time, which is why she's now gone.

I had a couple of wobbles. I feel guilty about not meeting her. I know she wants to make things ok and doesn't know how. I know she loves me and has been able to rely on me making everything ok and now I'm not. Of course she now feels disrespected because I haven't done what she wants. But that doesn't mean I'm being disrespectful (does it?)  And of course it would be lovely to have a friendly honest closure chat, but we've had a dozen of these chats, they mean nothing, and besides - just because she wants it, doesn't mean I have to do it! And this is why I'm feeling positive with myself. Because of course I want us to meet for our chat, fall into each other's arms and reconnect- as we have done a dozen times before. But I'm not going to, for both our sakes. I'm going to keep away for as long as I need until I'm sure I can protect myself. That's my priority now. For the first time in three years. And just because she accuses me of something it doesn't mean it's true. It never has and it still doesn't now.

[once removed]

Yesterday evening she did with a general "I'm sad, sorry for my part... .wish you well" text. Standard stuff, which I returned out of a sense of good manners.

But of course this opened the flood gates... .

The short version is: she was clearly looking for what normally happens- we talk, act like nothing happened and be fine. I couldn't do that and explained why (emotional affair, out in snow in pyjamas, then calling me a slag, not one moments acceptance of responsibility from her) Asked her to not contact me and said I'd do the same, is the only way.

This then caused a barrage of calls and texts over night,  all ignored by me,

it sounds like she was experiencing an "extinction burst". this can be the tricky thing about using NC. its not that you did anything wrong here, but that your goals (limited contact or no contact) could use clarity. NC is the more extreme option - its a detaching tool but it can create a lot of anxiety for one or both parties. if she is one of those parties, she will test and act out against it. if you respond, it communicates that all she has to do is up the ante next time until you respond.

responding or LC are less extreme tools, they can lessen some tension, but still tricky to navigate. ideally, you want to avoid rehashing, or JADEing (justify, argue, defend, explain) when it comes to the relationship. she isnt going to accept responsibility, only deflect it, so explaining "you left me in the snow in my pajamas etc" is not going to get through and will be deflected. an approach of "its not you, its me" may work better. and in general, being really boring can go a long way.

Because of course I want us to meet for our chat, fall into each other's arms and reconnect- as we have done a dozen times before. But I'm not going to, for both our sakes. I'm going to keep away for as long as I need until I'm sure I can protect myself. That's my priority now. For the first time in three years. And just because she accuses me of something it doesn't mean it's true. It never has and it still doesn't now.

thats a good boundary. if you choose to meet eventually, how might you communicate "not right now"?

[Alexi]

You need to understand and come to terms that it's not their fault that they behave that way.

[Penelope35]

Yesterday evening she did with a general "I'm sad, sorry for my part... .wish you well" text. Standard stuff, which I returned out of a sense of good manners.

I

But of course this opened the flood gates... .

The short version is: she was clearly looking for what normally happens- we talk, act like nothing happened and be fine. I couldn't do that and explained why (emotional affair, out in snow in pyjamas, then calling me a slag, not one moments acceptance of responsibility from her) Asked her to not contact me and said I'd do the same, is the only way.

This then caused a barrage of calls and texts over night,  all ignored by me,

it sounds like she was experiencing an "extinction burst". this can be the tricky thing about using NC. its not that you did anything wrong here, but that your goals (limited contact or no contact) could use clarity. NC is the more extreme option - its a detaching tool but it can create a lot of anxiety for one or both parties. if she is one of those parties, she will test and act out against it. if you respond, it communicates that all she has to do is up the ante next time until you respond.

responding or LC are less extreme tools, they can lessen some tension, but still tricky to navigate. ideally, you want to avoid rehashing, or JADEing (justify, argue, defend, explain) when it comes to the relationship. she isnt going to accept responsibility, only deflect it, so explaining "you left me in the snow in my pajamas etc" is not going to get through and will be deflected. an approach of "its not you, its me" may work better. and in general, being really boring can go a long way.

Because of course I want us to meet for our chat, fall into each other's arms and reconnect- as we have done a dozen times before. But I'm not going to, for both our sakes. I'm going to keep away for as long as I need until I'm sure I can protect myself. That's my priority now. For the first time in three years. And just because she accuses me of something it doesn't mean it's true. It never has and it still doesn't now.

thats a good boundary. if you choose to meet eventually, how might you communicate "not right now"?

Once removed if someone prefers to go no contact why should we suggest she does otherwise. You are probably not suggesting but rather educating about the different options but by reading FIT's story my opinion is that she should stay no contact too. At least for some time. I think througout our relationships everything is about them. We think before we talk "to not upset them", we think of ways to respond "to not trigger them" and the list could go on forever. Why should we put them first even during this phase where WE are trying to pick up our pieces? Why should we care if this approach would cause them anxiety? This is about us. For once maybe we should at least try to put ourselves first. Any contact illicits FOG and sucks us back in the drama. If FIT decided that she needs to stay away to help her detach it's probably because her experience with her ex until now has showed her that this may be the only way. For now at least. I think we should support her to do that.

[Penelope35]

Just a few more thoughts.  No contact is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT and that's understandable by everyone. Probabilities are that the person who initiates will at some point break it. But in my experience even that has helped me detach even if it's just a little. I have been preparing my self to go no contact for a long time as there have been many break ups and ups and downs throughout the relationship. After I had tried every possible way (explain, argue, validate, be sweet, be mad etc etc etc), at some point I realised that NOTHING I would do would ever get me anywhere. So I decided to go no contact and told him so.

Since then I blocked and unblocked him many times, I checked social media after I promised my self I will never do that again and I even responded a few times (which always left me more broken). I did all these because i missed him and still do. BUT nonetheless,  this process has helped me slowly and steadily distance my self. I have in mind that if I want to let go of hope and accept that it's over, I can only do it if I dont expose my self to the triggers. Breaking of no contact by me included checking social media and responding to some of his manipulative messages.  But again, I responded the first time and got more hurt, I responded the second and got more broken so now I know. As long as i have my goal set to no contact, i am trying hard to move towards that direction and i don't beat my self up if sometimes i wasn't strong enough and slipped. I haven't reached my goal yet. I am now at the point where all messages from him go to a spam folder and I get to see them when I choose to do so. And I manage to not respond. Maybe I will slip again in the future but I will get up and move towards my goal again. Every time my "fall" feels less painful. I refuse to pretend I am boring to bore him so that he would quit and I would never consider the "it's not you, it's me" approach. Our dignities were hurt so many times in these relationships. I refuse to pretend "it's me" so that I will help him detach. Even if i know that i will benefit from that. The focus should be on us at this point.

I understand that different things work for different people and I can only speak for my self. But after following FIT's story, my personal feeling is that she needs distance at this point... .

[once removed]

Just a few more thoughts.  No contact is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT and that's understandable by everyone. Probabilities are that the person who initiates will at some point break it.

thats my point. theres a lot of potential drama involved for both sides when it comes to NC. that doesnt mean NC is the wrong choice. there are options.

if someone prefers to go no contact why should we suggest she does otherwise. You are probably not suggesting but rather educating about the different options but by reading FIT's story my opinion is that she should stay no contact too.

clarifying whats best for us is best for us. if the OP prefers no contact then responding is going to send a mixed message. if the OP wants to respond, thats fine, but boundaries need to be in place. NC and LC are two different tools for detachment unique to each of our situations, neither right or wrong.

only we can allow ourselves to be sucked into drama. if we need NC to avoid that temptation, its a perfectly valid tool. the relationship is over at this point, so neither LC or NC are about our ex, but about us and our detachment. LC isnt about not hurting someones feelings, but it can be about limiting the potential drama on both sides, which can assist in our detachment. think about it. if your goal is not to hear from your ex, how do you best go about that? read the stories here. no one responds well to being cut off. our exes may experience an extinction burst and go to extremes to contact us - the opposite of what those of us in NC are shooting for. the OP has clarified her intentions, which helps. her ex ignored them and contacted. the OP responded. the ex upped the ante, the OP responded. the ex interprets that as "if i up the ante, finallyitstime will respond". thats not finallyitstimes fault, none of this is easy and we are all in unique situations. its about what we want going forward. there are options. they both involve firm boundaries.

I refuse to pretend I am boring to bore him so that he would quit and I would never consider the "it's not you, it's me" approach. Our dignities were hurt so many times in these relationships. I refuse to pretend "it's me" so that I will help him detach. Even if i know that i will benefit from that. The focus should be on us at this point.

it should not be about his consideration or helping him. how do you get a chatty person to go away? would you talk to a boring person? what if, in your case (it may not be) that was the quickest path toward not hearing from him? those arent considerations if youre choosing NC. if youre choosing to respond, stating your reasons for the breakup and then ending contact is likely to result in a dramatic response. thats what happened in this case.

finallyitstime, i dont offer this advice to scold you. its very natural when someone reaches out to us to respond... .its very natural when someone reaches out to us for an explanation ,that we offer it. it was not wrong of you to do that, i hope i make that clear. i also hope that i make clear that if you would prefer not to be in contact with this person for the time being, that you do not owe her an explanation, and that giving her one will not satisfy her or you. keep in mind that you dont have to make everything better

[Penelope35]

Once removed I believe I bave benefited from going no contact and even breaking it. I do believe that our minds should be set on going no contact even if we sometimes slip. Low contact will stay low if the other person doesn't bombard you with calls and messages. If they do (which is the case most of the times) then it is you that have to find ways to limit it and when in this phase we are not in a psychological state to control it. We are easily drown into circular arguments which lead to drama anyway. Plus we know how overwhelming this can become for us and if we choose to answer selectivity it will also send mixed signals. And this will end up resembling the way they behave -answer when you need it, ignore when you don't.  

I guess my point is that the chances of low contact staying low and not have an effect on your mental being are around the same as choosing to go no contact and sticking to it. FOG starts to lift and you can see things more clearly when you distance yourself of any situation though. I believe our minds should be set on no contact and learn from it each time we break it. I also believe it would be best if you inform the other person about your choice. I told my ex that I will stop responding because I need to concentrate on my self.

This is my T's  opinion too. My T also said that I didn't even need to inform him about it because history has showed me that my choices to protect my self were never aknowledged or respected anyway. But I chose to tell him I would stop responding  as a way to avoid the extinction burst that you talked about but mainly because I am not the kind of person who would ghost someone. Some of the times i broke no contact was to remind him that i have already told him i would. I didn't have to but we all know how manipulative and guilt illiciting their messages can get.

Anyway I hope everybody finds what's best for them. But we have to be honest with ourselves the whole time because I feel in this first very difficult phase we can easily find excuses and reasons to respond or reach out to them. We have to know why we are doing it. I know I did it because I couldn't let go. And I still struggle. But it got much better with time and distance

[Beacher]

 I also miss morning calls. Then he would always call,back and say" I just wanted to tell you one more time that I love you". All very romantic and what every girl dreams of. Until at a later date I was called a f--King b---h and I was stupid and anything else he could throw at me.

Now that we are separated it's much easier to simply say " I'm not going to tolerate this, goodbye" and simply hang up. The second he starts saying something nasty, not engaging in defending myself or getting,upset.

It takes time but if you remember you are a human being of dignity and do not deserve this, you will get there

[Lucky Jim]

Hey F-I-T, I think you doing great in an extremely stressful situation.  Beware of the F-O-G that a pwBPD will use to manipulate you.  Having you arrested --  Fear.  You owe it to her to meet -- Obligation.  Accusing you -- Guilt.  These are all powerful levers, I know, to which I was quite susceptible.  By pausing and thinking about it before reacting, you are giving yourself the opportunity to see things clearly, free from FOG, which is a skill that takes practice, yet you're doing it.  Keep up the good work!

LuckyJim