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Author Topic: Crossing streams between church and P I need to be careful  (Read 575 times)
formflier
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« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2017, 03:07:27 PM »



If this plan further destabilizes your family by painting you permanently black, have you thought through what to do?

Live the best life that I can. 

You would think... .but you never can tell... .that after surviving the CPS report and stopping my wife from using corporal punishment... .that "stopping" my wife from extreme religious stuff (lecturing kids that I am not a Christian... .etc etc) wouldn't be near as bad.

Listen... .I'm sure that she will feel completely controlled and there will be a consequence for that.  Occasionally there is still fallout from calling CPS.  But that is not the point

No child in my house has had corporal punishment for a couple years.  That's a win in my book.  Looking back, I should have done something sooner.

Anyway... .the religious thing has been brewing for a bit.  Now it's popped.  If I can that behavior stopped... .another win for the family.

I'm under no illusions that the dysfunction will go away.  Likely just pop up somewhere else.  However... .with more practice with boundaries and self care... .I should be able to adjust fairly quickly.

FF
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« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2017, 05:12:43 PM »

I don't know the full extent or context of your situation but a lot of what you've written in this thread seems to suggest you are doing everything in your power to change your wife.  Others have called this out as controlling and I'd tend to agree with that; although, I don't doubt your motivations are good. 

Some positives:
1. Sounds like your wife is willing to be in counselling and has acknowledged she has issues that need to be worked on
2. You have a good support network that is able to communicate with each other to work most effectively
3. You love your family and want to lead them according to the Bible

I guess my real concern in all of this is the effort you're putting into it won't be rewarded with the wife you want and namely how that will impact you and your family.  Leadership can be a lonely place when nobody is following you, especially when you know you're doing the right thing.  Ultimately your wife is an adult and makes her own decisions.  She will answer to God for the choices she makes just as you will answer to God for how you led your family (ie. you aren't responsible for your wife not following your leadership).  Her submission to your headship is a reflection of her submission to Christ.  Bottom line is you might be able to force your wife to go through the motions but you should be most concerned with her heart and her relationship with Christ.
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« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2017, 05:17:43 PM »

I'd suggest you pray about and then love you wife according to 1 Corinthians 13:4-8a.  Make a point of living that out in every interaction you have with your wife every day.  If you don't already, get a spiritually mature man in your life to keep you accountable to that.
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formflier
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« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2017, 05:33:20 PM »


My brutally hones answer is I am more worried about my kids hearts... than my wife's.  Perhaps someday she will do something more than go through the motions or surface compliance on an issue.

Understand my definition of "victory" is "surface compliance"... .stop sabotaging family devotions with her outbursts.

FF
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« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2017, 05:35:05 PM »

Idk, seems like the "function" of your dynamics with each other.
It repeats.
She pushes and pushes
Then some type of intervention occurs to "set her back in her place" (i hate how that sounds but had not nicer phrase)
Then she "behaves" for a bit
Then it builds again

Seems like part of what keeps you two functioning is that she pushes the boundaries, sees how far they go, then you do a good job being pretty clear in certain boundaries, she gets told/shown, etc.  and things go on.

Makes me think of the board game Trouble where you can return an opponents piece to home, they gotta advance from that position again.

(Just saying, I think your current approach has RA in it)
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« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2017, 06:07:53 PM »

To my husband's credit, he has not gone out and bought a new car after his broke and he can't fix it right now. The debt was something that the church told him was bad, and they made him take a course on financial responsibility. He doesn't like it, but he complies because they have something he wants. I wasn't part of their decision about that, though, so I'm not at fault in his mind.

That was a win for us, too. He complains about it and thinks they are completely unrealistic, still.


It seems to me that concrete and well-defined limits are the easiest for them to understand and comply with. Areas that are subject to interpretation are more confusing (gray-zone). So, what are the concrete limits that you want?
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« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2017, 07:42:50 AM »

  So, what are the concrete limits that you want?

Good question... I've been kicking this around... .likely need help organizing this into a "final answer"

People in my family may speak about their religious experiences and beliefs, they may not speak about the experiences and beliefs of others... .for that... they listen.

Note... .the above thing can be extended to feelings and thoughts... .although I think this could quickly get lost on the church.

If you don't want to talk about your emotions... .that is fine... .others in our house are free to talk about their feelings, ESPECIALLY with regard to Biblical matters. 

It's ok to disagree with your spouse.  It's not OK to discuss that with your kids.

I'll hush for now... .I need to think more about this.

FF

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« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2017, 09:01:44 AM »

I guess I would put it as it is not ok to denigrate your spouse to your kids or undermine their authority.  Issues between parents are not discussed in front of kids.  The point of saying you are not saved was not some concern for your soul, but to tell your kids that they didn't have to listen to you.
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« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2017, 04:58:29 PM »

My brutally hones answer is I am more worried about my kids hearts... than my wife's.  Perhaps someday she will do something more than go through the motions or surface compliance on an issue.

Understand my definition of "victory" is "surface compliance"... .stop sabotaging family devotions with her outbursts.

 Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) Good answer. As an adult parent, you are responsible for your children in a way you are not responsible for your wife. So it should take priority.

From my (secular) perspective, I don't fully get "headship", but I'm pretty sure that the responsibility placed onto you for your wife's spiritual development is still less than that placed on you for your children's, and that in situations where you have to choose, giving your children priority is right, isn't it?

Surface compliance from your wife seems to be enough. Especially if the alternative is a circular theological argument with her, which I don't see as any more beneficial than any other kind of circular argument!
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« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2017, 08:12:26 PM »

Especially if the alternative is a circular theological argument with her, which I don't see as any more beneficial than any other kind of circular argument!

Or a public contradictory argument.  Such as my wife teaching kids about respect to those placed above you, and then publicly disrespecting those put above her.

I get it that we are all flawed people... .but as y'all know all to well... .the BPDish part of it puts things on steroids... .with seemingly no ability to see "their" part in it.

Headship:   I serve my wife as Christ served the church.  If there is a disagreement, I am the tiebreaker... .as long as it is not a sinful command or request. 

So if there is a disagreement about what our kids should be taught about the Bible today... or this month... .I'm the decider.

Just for clarity... .in "normal" Christian marriages this authority is rarely asserted.  More often than not a husband will "serve" his wife by deferring to her and putting her needs first (just as Christ did for the church). 

I'm sure that you can see how "always" putting the needs of a BPDish person first is a recipe for disaster.

FF

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« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2017, 10:26:49 PM »

With all due respect, maybe the problem here is how you are going about getting her to ‘comply’ with your wishes. It sounds disrespectful to recruit others to help you do this ‘without her knowledge’ and possibly will fuel the fire of this power struggle. In turn your children may well suffer the consequences. Assuming you are successful and get her to comply this time. What about next time? What are the likely long term effects for your children? Can I ask how much experience your P has had with pwBPD?
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« Reply #41 on: January 19, 2017, 07:55:50 AM »

  Can I ask how much experience your P has had with pwBPD?

Quite a bit.  I don't have numbers... .she is PhD type... .in he 60s (I don't know her exact age.)

This P and prior Ps have all agreed that my wife is likely more in the PPD spectrum... .than BPD.  Perhaps another way of saying it is paranoia is central.  Fundamental distrust of men is central due to FOO background.  I struggle to find one "good" example of a man in her family.

Ummm... .how I am going about it.  Likely I've not been clear enough... .or focused on that enough.

I'm asking her to take these issues directly to her mentor... .vice me "going around her" to her mentor. 

Compliance... .we've talked several times, exchanged several emails... .several texts.  I believe looking at the record, any "reasonable" person would see clear instructions for how things were to go, while a bigger picture discussion was going on. 

Granted... .my wife may or may not see it that way.

This is about choices.  I have a choice to continue the power struggle... .or not.  As does my wife.  I've chosen to continue the power struggle... and win... on this particular issue.  Biblical teaching of our children, in our home.

Big picture BPD strategy:  Try to not "pick" fights.  Make sure the ones you pick really matter... .and make sure you win.  Very similar to boundary enforcement, consistency is key... .if I am a flip flopper... .that will be exploited.

FF
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« Reply #42 on: January 19, 2017, 05:11:43 PM »

Excerpt
I'm asking her to take these issues directly to her mentor... .vice me "going around her" to her mentor. 

I'm a bit concerned about you relying on her to accurately portray the issues to her mentor and back to you. I'll admit that comes from my own experience of my husband twisting the things that I have said and telling others about what he thinks I want/mean/believe. He has a difficult time even reflecting back what I have said in my conversations with him.

Does your wife have a decent track record of being able to accurately relay information?


The issues about speaking about feelings and disagreeing seem a bit gray to me.
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« Reply #43 on: January 19, 2017, 07:03:18 PM »

 
I wrote her an email... .that she forwarded to her mentor.  At some point she is going to do some writing in response and we'll have a conversation or two about it.

Big points.

1.  She is making judgments about my and others Christianity.  Judgments about my Christianity are made to my kids.

2.  She has not been showing up to family devotions.

Likely outcomes.

I was clear about what I was looking for... .paraphrase "hush and show up", which is likely all I will get.  I'll count that as good enough.

I did put in the email that I hope she and her mentor could talk through "heart issues" that would lead her to do and say such things.  I'm doubtful that will go anywhere.

Not sure if other peoples pwBPD are like this, but I rarely get all of what I ask for.  But... .I rarely get nothing either, especially after some big event or wrongdoing. 

I expect to get the easy stuff... .what I call "surface compliance".

We'll see.

More later... hopefully later tonight.

FF
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« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2017, 07:12:30 AM »


Guess who was perfectly pleasant this morning... .and showed up to family devotions... .on time?


FF
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« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2017, 02:32:15 PM »

FF, can she continue her own Bible studies with the kids?
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« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2017, 08:24:12 PM »

FF, can she continue her own Bible studies with the kids?

At this time... .no.  Family devotions as a family unit... .no splits or "camps".

We're going out to lunch tomorrow and my hope is to talk through how to coordinate individual Bible study.

History:  She started demanding that kids "had to" do individual Bible study and that turned into her leading it (at least it sounded that way).

More later.

FF

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« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2017, 04:21:39 PM »

So was the meeting held?  Did you see any results from the meeting?
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« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2017, 01:44:32 PM »

So was the meeting held?  Did you see any results from the meeting?

The meeting between P and BC has not happened yet.  They have exchanged some email about it.  Perhaps this coming week, I'll find out more on Tuesday.

My wife has discussed the "teaching her kids that her hubby is not a Christian issue"... .my wife seemed rattled when she came home... then went into the uber nice mode for a couple of days. 

Today at lunch was the first "nasty moment" we have had in several days.  I succinctly stated my issue and disengaged.  She huffed and puffed for a minute or two and seems to be "seething" since then.

I'm doing my own thing.

She has showed up at most family devotions and seems to be going for "surface compliance".

FF

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