Feeling Trapped

[Depression = 72% of members]

Lately my gut is telling me that I don't want to be in this marriage anymore. My HwBPD ignores or is mean to my extremely loving and giving family (to which I am very close), he supports and follows bigoted media figures and posts their thoughts to his Facebook page, and he never follows through on anything he says he will do. He only does what he wants to do, when he feels like it. For example, he drives Uber in MY car (because his car is too old), but that contributes very little after gas and maintenance on the car. Furthermore, when he decides to stay up all night reading on his computer, he makes an excuse that he is going to look for other work, and he ends up lying in bed all day, hanging out on car forums, and reading.

I don't feel like I'm married to a partner. He's often needy and clingy, and whiny and depressed. When he's not those things, he's snarky and angry. On the rare days when he is motivated to do something, I feel a faint glimmer of attraction to him return, but it's quickly extinguished when he reverts to one of these other two personas the next day. When he feels that he's really losing me, he reverts to his needy persona, which is supposed to make me feel sorry for him, I suppose. I do, to a point, in that it makes me feel terrible that I wish he would just go away. He is completely dependent on me, including for his resident visa, so if I threw him out, he'd have really no where to go but back to his mother's house in another country. He's mentioned killing himself or going to live "under a bridge" instead of going back there, which, I know, is manipulative, but he also often starves himself for days as some kind of subversive self-punishment, so I don't know that I would put it past him. I don't know what to do, but I feel trapped. I love him, but I'm not IN love with him because this is not what love is supposed to be. We've only been married for a year. I don't think that I can keep going much longer like this.

[WitzEndWife]

Lately my gut is telling me that I don't want to be in this marriage anymore. My HwBPD ignores or is mean to my extremely loving and giving family (to which I am very close), he supports and follows bigoted media figures and posts their thoughts to his Facebook page, and he never follows through on anything he says he will do. He only does what he wants to do, when he feels like it. For example, he drives Uber in MY car (because his car is too old), but that contributes very little after gas and maintenance on the car. Furthermore, when he decides to stay up all night reading on his computer, he makes an excuse that he is going to look for other work, and he ends up lying in bed all day, hanging out on car forums, and reading.

I don't feel like I'm married to a partner. He's often needy and clingy, and whiny and depressed. When he's not those things, he's snarky and angry. On the rare days when he is motivated to do something, I feel a faint glimmer of attraction to him return, but it's quickly extinguished when he reverts to one of these other two personas the next day. When he feels that he's really losing me, he reverts to his needy persona, which is supposed to make me feel sorry for him, I suppose. I do, to a point, in that it makes me feel terrible that I wish he would just go away. He is completely dependent on me, including for his resident visa, so if I threw him out, he'd have really no where to go but back to his mother's house in another country. He's mentioned killing himself or going to live "under a bridge" instead of going back there, which, I know, is manipulative, but he also often starves himself for days as some kind of subversive self-punishment, so I don't know that I would put it past him. I don't know what to do, but I feel trapped. I love him, but I'm not IN love with him because this is not what love is supposed to be. We've only been married for a year. I don't think that I can keep going much longer like this.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi WitzEndWife: 

Lately my gut is telling me that I don't want to be in this marriage anymore. . .

I love him, but I'm not IN love with him because this is not what love is supposed to be. We've only been married for a year. I don't think that I can keep going much longer like this.   

I'm sorry about your situation with your husband.  You say you have been married for 1 year and that your gut is telling you to leave the marriage.  Sometime, our gut knows best and you need to get out of the FOG   (Fear, Obligation and Guild) and do what our gut tells us is best for us.

I read in a previous post, that your therapist suggested you give your husband an ultimatum in regard to him going to therapy.  Are you still thinking about the suggestion, or have you tried delivering that ultimatum?

I understand that you have compassion for your partner and do love him (although you currently believe that your aren't "in love" with him).  Other than having love for him, can you make a list of reasons to stay with him?

I don't know what country you live in, but some Countries like the US have laws that can make the female spouse pay alimony, retirement, etc. to a divorced spouse, after a certain number of years. 

You indicate you are in your late 30's.  Do you want children?  If so, could you imagine how a child would fair with your husband as a father?  If your husband's BPD has a genetic component, you could have a child who has BPD and/or perhaps depression or an anxiety disorder.

Can you imagine growing old with your husband?  Would he be there to help nurture you in any way, should you become ill or injured? 

Even if your husband goes to therapy, sticks with therapy and/or some meds, the likelihood is that he will never get rid of his mental health issues.  He might be lucky enough to have remissions, but those don't happen without some dedicated effort on his part. 

You have no power to change him.  All you can do is change the way you interact with him and react to him.  The question to ask yourself, is that enough?  If you become proficient with all the communication skills and ways to manage your own emotions, will you be happy living that way for the rest of your marriage (however long it lasts)?

You might want to discuss the pro's and con's of your marriage with your therapist, and then perhaps a lawyer.  Know what it will cost you monetarily and emotionally, for each additional year you stay.

If you decide to divorce him, that will likely be painful for you, and certainly for him.  But if you stay in the marriage, might it be more painful for you in the long run? 

 

[WitzEndWife]

Thanks. Yes, I think carefully weighing the pros and cons is valuable. He is unwilling to go to therapy, and he's immature and angry. I definitely don't think he'd be a good father to children, and I think he might be the reason for my current desire not to have children. Perhaps if I was with a more responsible partner, I would want to?

So, is reality that therapy will be pretty much ineffective? I keep hoping that perhaps he'll be able to become more responsible and mature, and less angry. Even a little bit of relief would make a world of difference.

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hi WitzEndWife:   
It's okay to not want children.  Perhaps that is something you might want to discuss with your therapist, so you won't have regrets later.   If your partner continues to refuse treatment, his behavior will likely get worse, as time marches on and as stressful events happen. 

He is completely dependent on me, including for his resident visa

  Is he eligible to apply for US Citizenship? 

[Meili]

So, is reality that therapy will be pretty much ineffective?

Whether or not therapy is effective really depends on the individual. If the individual does the hard work necessary and puts in the time, it can be effective. If not, well... .

[WitzEndWife]

He cannot yet apply for Citizenship. He hasn't even received his resident visa because of some paperwork botched by the medical testing facility. It's been kind of a nightmare, and has dragged out a lot longer than it should have.

Once he gets his visa, he plans to visit his mother in Canada and help her out. I would like to suggest he take some extra time to help her, and maybe that will give us both some perspective. I am just not sure if I can deal with this if he doesn't get help.

When I first was made aware that he might have BPD from our counselor (who has worked with both of us together), I made a plan to try to learn all I could. For the past three weeks, I have been on this forum, reading, and learning online whenever I can. I made a goal to try to work on myself and avoid conflict, and enact the whole LEAP approach, which he does respond to well. I just can't seem to get over my own anger sometimes to be a good listener and validator. Like, this morning. We drive in to the city together, and he takes my car and drives Uber while I work my high-stress job. It's good for him because at least he contributes to things like gas money and food, and he feels a bit more productive. Anyway, he often does a lot of subversive time wasting, and often drags his feet to get out of the door when it comes to things that are important to me when he is secretly angry at me for something. This morning, I apparently didn't wake him up gently enough because I was in a rush, so he dragged his feet and didn't get us out of the door until a full 10-15 minutes later than we normally leave. He was puttering around in the car and taking his time, and I said, "We have to hurry up and get on the road. I have a meeting this morning." He said, "Can we just have ONE morning where you don't complain?" Obviously this was a loaded question. I said, "I wasn't complaining, I just need to get to work. I know it might not be as important to you as it is to me, but it stresses me out when we're running behind." From there, his rage started. He revved up the car and accelerated forward with force. I said, ":)on't use this car as a weapon, or I'm getting out." He started yelling at me about being unpleasant and starting fights with him. I asked him where his rage was coming from and he said, "You!" And then he kept nattering and blaming me for everything. I finally lost it and screamed, ":)rop it! I'm done. I'm not engaging with you on this any more!" He complained that I hurt his ears screaming, but I did not engage and kept silent on the whole ride. Toward the end of the ride, he was, of course, trying to hold my hand and apologize, and I was still angry (which is usual). He explained that he'd been "set off" by the fact that I didn't "Welcome him gently into the day" by the way I woke him up. I don't know why, but this kind of request seems unreasonable and it makes me angry. Does he want me to throw him a party every morning? I'm rushing in, dripping sweat from having worked out at an intense class, he's lying in the middle of the enormous bed. I usually gently place a hand on some part of his body, and say, "It's time to wake up," in a calm voice, before rushing off to take a shower. Am I being invalidating by not wanting to take extra time to climb onto the bed, kiss him gently, rub his back, and sing-song him into the day? I certainly don't get that luxury.

I want to be validating, I want to listen, but how do you mitigate that when a person is also simultaneously being emotionally abusive? I have been trying to earn his trust, so that eventually I could coax him into treatment, but this doesn't seem to be working. I know that ultimatums might work, but not for the long term.

[Meili]

I think that we all know how frustrating it is to be the target of their rage. Sometimes it helps to remember that the rage is really just the outward expression for their own feelings of inadequacy.

None of us can ever know, but it is possible that he was mad at himself for how long it took him to get up, but he can't deal with his intense emotions, so he emotes and yells at you. It's hard, but in these situations, it can help to not take it personally. This may allow you to LISTEN WITH EMPATHY.

Also, validating can be hard. It's really hard in the situation that you described about waking him this morning. At times like that, there may be nothing real for you to validate. Since we do not want to validate the invalid, we just try not to be invalidating.

I think that it's great that you drew your boundary line and stopped engaging! We are adults and do not deserve to be yelled at and treated poorly. When attempts to be empathetic and/or validating, disengaging is really the only choice. Good for you!

[WitzEndWife]

Well, at least it's good to know that my instincts are good! I guess it means that I'm learning. At the very least, I'm helping myself with all of this.

[Meili]

What's interesting is that helping yourself is the very thing that you must do to have a decent chance at saving the relationship.

It really is counter-intuitive, but by defining and maintaining boundaries, being strong in your person, and not allowing yourself to be a doormat are the very things that are required to make a BPD relationship work.

Many people seem to believe that by coddling their partner, they are doing the best thing that they can do. A non can get caught up in worrying that the pwBPD will feel abandonment when the non stands up for his/herself. But, the pwBPD need someone strong as a partner.

[LightnessOfBeing]

He explained that he'd been "set off" by the fact that I didn't "Welcome him gently into the day" by the way I woke him up. I don't know why, but this kind of request seems unreasonable and it makes me angry. Does he want me to throw him a party every morning?

Yes, essentially he does. PwBPD tend to have a pretty exaggerated sense of entitlement-- one more similar to that of an infant than of an adult. One of the most resonant things I've seen written about BPD was premised on the nature of the disorder as fundamentally one of arrested development. I've seen this very clearly in my own husband, he acts like a toddler, and at his core, there's a creepy urge for infantic symbiosis: "There's a desperate need in every Borderline to find and experience the symbiotic attachment that he or she missed out on or had and then lost, during their earliest phase of development." It's not wrong for an infant to be 'demanding', to want to be coddled by their caregivers, to expect that their every need and want be immediately addressed; it's completely appropriate. But it's unreasonable for an adult to expect to be indulged like an infant, so in my view, your anger is warranted. It's okay to be affronted or skeeved out by the implicit demand that you play the role of 'perfect mother' to a grown man.

My 41 year old husband wants to live wrapped in a veritable womb of approbation - he wants to be lavished 24/7 with love and schmoop like an infant, have constant tantrums tolerated with a smile, be able to scream whenever he wants and be 'petted' five minutes later, and never - ever - hear anything from anyone that remotely suggests he isn't the most perfect human ever born. Sad. Honestly, if I had a nickel for every time the word "pathetic" has popped into my head since we got married, I'd have enough $ to divorce him today.

Am I being invalidating by not wanting to take extra time to climb onto the bed, kiss him gently, rub his back, and sing-song him into the day? I certainly don't get that luxury.

That's right, you don't; what you're identifying there is the fundamental nature of a relationship with a pwBPD: Inequity. There's a profound unfairness to a Non/pwBPD dyad - the paradigm is essentially 'You provide me with an endless stream of affection, abnormal amounts of pampering, tolerate all my misbehavior, validate me constantly but don't expect the same- ever, and in return you can expect some affection occasionally.' If yours is anything like mine, he _will_ accuse you of being invalidating/cold/mean/etc when you fail to meet unreasonable demands. You aren't.

tl;dr:  It's valid and 100% okay to find ridiculous requests off-putting. PwBPD make a lot of unreasonable demands, both explicit and implicit, and if a Non doesn't comply, it doesn't mean we're being 'insufficiently validating', and it doesn't mean we aren't loving, caring people.


You're living my life, WitzEndWife. I could have written this part of your post myself, verbatim:

I don't feel like I'm married to a partner. He's often needy and clingy, and whiny and depressed. When he's not those things, he's snarky and angry. On the rare days when he is motivated to do something, I feel a faint glimmer of attraction to him return, but it's quickly extinguished when he reverts to one of these other two personas the next day. When he feels that he's really losing me, he reverts to his needy persona, which is supposed to make me feel sorry for him, I suppose.

Also like you, my gut is telling me to go. Feeling trapped is something many of us here can relate to - some of us feel we can't leave because of children, or mortgages, or because of the pwBPD's threats to self-harm if we 'abandon them', or because we yearn for the return of the idealization phase and how it made us feel. But we aren't _literally_ trapped, and I think that's important to remember - there is no actual cage, no concrete walls. Freedom is possible, I've seen many here who've attained it.

We each have our own journey to make in deciding whether or not to stay in a relationship with a pwBPD, and it wouldn't be my place to try to steer you one way or another. What I will say is that you're not alone. And also that I'm sorry you're going through this.