Mother living independently in a tailspin

[zachira]

My heart breaks knowing that you have been let down once again, and the chaos is likely going to get worse with your mother before there is any really meaningful relief for you.

So many families are no contact with close relatives after years of enduring impossible behaviors from their disordered relatives. Would you or your husband ever consider going no contact with your mother? It is a painful sad process to go through. I feel very sad I cannot have a relationship with my sister with NPD, and I am her main target, will always be so. You are your mother's main target for how badly she feels inside, and really all alone in this regard. Is there a boundary that your mother could cross that would make you go no contact with her? Would it ever be possible for you and your husband to tell your mother you will be going no contact with her if she cancels the home health care for the eye drops? If you genuinely mean what you are saying and can convey this to your mother, perhaps she is a skilled enough manipulator to understand that what you are saying is for real.

Who supervises the agency that has let you down so many times? I have found that going higher up with well documented genuine complaints can really get results sometimes.

Thinking of possible solutions for your heartbreaking challenges with your mother, none which may be relevant or helpful. It is all about what is right for you which may not be what is right for someone else.

[Notwendy]

If it were my mother, an ultimatum like that would not work with her. Hearing her interpretation of situations, she sees herself in victim mode. If someone asks her to do something, she feels as if the person is attacking her or criticising her. Due to her need for control, she may react by refusing or doing something hurftul to them or herself even.

I do wonder what is the motivation to not take medicine (like the eye drops for Methuen's mother, or cut off bandages). I know that my mother does not truly want to harm herself. If she has any discomfort or concern- she seeks medical care- but may not comply with it.

Methuen- about refusing or cancelling the home health. I didn't understand BPD dynamics well when my father got ill and discussed my concerns with his doctor and some sort of home health, physical therapy was arranged. My parents either refused a visit, or somehow became critical of whowever showed up, and found a reason to not have them come.

My BPD mother will accept help but only from people she can control. If anyone tries to get her to do something- for her own good- or holds their grounds with boundaries- she becomes critical of them and finds some reason to not have them come.

I think the underlying reason my parents were so critical of the home health is to avoid "discovery". BPD mother's issues are a family secret- and my father was also invested in presenting my mother as a competent person. They rarely had people over and when they did- it was a stressful and controlled situation. However, if someone spends time in their home- especially someone with professional training- it would be hard to maintain that impression. I wonder if some of the people who my parents were critical of may have been those who were concerned.

Methuen- you mentioned you live in a small area where everyone knows each other - so there's the risk of running into someone you and your mother know socially when seeking help. Your mother insisting she can do the drops herself- this is "saving face" even if it isn't in her best interest to do so. My mother does things like this too- insisting she can do something herself when she isn't able to.

[Notwendy]

I also recall that at the time, my parents refused any suggestion for senior living. I looked at some places and thought they would be suitable. These were places where my parents would still be able to have independent living- with the option for assisted living if help was needed. Dad would get his care needs met, and BPD mother would also have hers met. They'd have meals, transportation. I understand these places are not ideal and most elderly people want to be in their own homes,  but it was better than the two of them alone in their home.

Dad angrily refused my suggestions. BPD mother found something to be critical of with each of them. It didn't make sense to me until I realized that their priority was to avoid someone becoming concerned. I also think this is why my mother refused for so long- until she really didn't have a choice. She could not be in as much control as she had in her own house.

I think the feelings of losing autonomy are difficult for elderly people. I saw my in laws do the same thing- struggle over not being able to do things for themselves. They did get snippy at their kids sometimes. But this was also qualitatively different. If we keep in mind that pwBPD have difficulty managing their uncomfortable feelings- their feelings about becoming dependent may be similar- the "normal". It's how they cope with them that is different and unfortunately impacts relationships.

[Methuen]

I do wonder what is the motivation to not take medicine (like the eye drops for Methuen's mother, or cut off bandages).

My BPD mother will accept help but only from people she can control. If anyone tries to get her to do something- for her own good- or holds their grounds with boundaries- she becomes critical of them and finds some reason to not have them come.

I think the underlying reason my parents were so critical of the home health is to avoid "discovery".

Your mother insisting she can do the drops herself- this is "saving face" even if it isn't in her best interest to do so. My mother does things like this too- insisting she can do something herself when she isn't able to.

This fits.

But, for the past three years she has chosen advancing blindness over accepting help from home health to give her the drops.  She’s still in denial about the drops not getting into her eyes when she does it.  She doesn’t make the connection between putting in the drops herself and her advancing blindness. 

Her friends have even told her the drops don’t get in, and accepting help would be a good thing. They all see the same things we see with the exception of one flying monkey who is 90, and like mom, insists she will kill herself before she goes into a home.

So with the exception of 1 friend, mom has the Dr, nurse, H and I, and 5 friends all witnessing and telling her the drops aren’t getting in the eye, and for 3 years she can’t accept the truth?

What is that?  Not mental illness?

Yet every day she would text about being terrified of going blind.

I don’t get it!  Who wouldn’t accept help to keep their vision?

Is it self sabotage? 

Now that so much vision has been lost (20/400 in bad eye and 20/100 in good eye), and the health authority is onto her, she agreed to home health coming in to do her drops 4x/day Reluctantly (still insisting she can do them herself). 

For Hand I, it’s not a question of if she cancels the service but when.

We were there yesterday for a little visit, and she was running into her furniture with her walker.  This was the first time either of us saw that. It’s truly pathetic. She’s a wisp of a thing. But with a giant personality that is disordered.

[Methuen]

My heart breaks knowing that you have been let down once again, and the chaos is likely going to get worse with your mother before there is any really meaningful relief for you.

So many families are no contact with close relatives after years of enduring impossible behaviors from their disordered relatives. Would you or your husband ever consider going no contact with your mother? Would it ever be possible for you and your husband to tell your mother you will be going no contact with her if she cancels the home health care for the eye drops? If you genuinely mean what you are saying and can convey this to your mother, perhaps she is a skilled enough manipulator to understand that what you are saying is for real.

Who supervises the agency that has let you down so many times? I have found that going higher up with well documented genuine complaints can really get results sometimes.

Thank you Zachira. Yes the chaos will get worse. I have visions of what that could look like. When my mind goes there, I really have to work hard to bring myself back to the present.

My H has said that the next time she cancels home health he will withdraw his service to her.  I believe he will follow through.  That is his red line in the sand.

Eventually she will have a fall or a stroke and end up in hospital.  When they deem her dischargeable, we have agreed with each other that we will not drive her home.  Many hospital beds are taken up in our hospital for this reason.  It’s pretty sad and bad that families are driven to this. It’s a lack of resources.

[Notwendy]

It's difficult to understand this kind of behavior. I found another interesting article written by a sociopath. I've wondered about my BPD mother. She has NPD traits as well and she's even admitted to feeling good about herself when she lies to people and fools them. I've seen her smirk when I "fall for it" at times. She also does hurtful things- and while she feins empathy- anyone who actually felt empathy - I don't think they could do these things.

https://cupofjo.com/2024/04/04/what-it-feels-like-to-be-a-sociopath/

The author describes her behavior as similar to an OCD compulsion or even an addiction. I don't excuse my mother's behavior- but it seems like she can't help herself.


What about hurting people?
I wrote down the rule that I couldn’t hurt anyone. Then I thought, so, what can I do? Sneaking into a neighbor’s house, it’s like, look, there’s no one in this house, who cares if I’m here? But because I knew I wasn’t ‘supposed’ to do it, it felt good. It gave me a release. It can’t explain it more than that. If you’re a kid, and you throw a bottle, it feels good – this is similar. I didn’t really want to be doing that stuff, but I felt a compulsion.



Methuen, your mother is hurting herself physically. Mine has done this and also caused significant financial damage to her savings.  She is not eligible for Medicaid assistance due to her income and how she has spent her money.

And I do think  she's done this on purpose. I think she wants to make sure there is no inheritance and I have told her I wouldn't accept one if there was. But it's more than this- she's not just doing that. She's compromising herself.

Why would someone hurt themselves like this? What does this accomplish? I have learned that addicts engage in behavior that is harmful to themselves and their families but the payoff for this behavior- to them, the drug effect, is greater and this drives the addiction.

I wonder if the payoff- the creating stress and upset for their family members is a greater need for them.

As to their threats of self harm. When I was a teen, during one of her rages, BPD mother ran into my room with a plastic bag on her head. She didn't want to do herself harm, if she did, she'd have done it in her own room. No she wanted me to see this, and was screaming things at me like "you made me do this" (as best as I can recall), She was in my face with the bag over her head yelling at me. Of course I tore it off her right away.

Like you, we have our boundaries too. We have tried all we know to do, we've tried talking to her, but she continues to lie to me about her spending. If she needs something, it will have to be within her income- and fortunately, Dad did leave her a sufficient one- so she can choose to be cautious with it or not.

[zachira]

What are your red lines in the sand? It sounds like you have many already yet will have to draw some new ones if  your husband cancels his services to her. Not driving her home from the hospital and letting her stay there while the hospital staff figure out alternatives for her are one of many likely outcomes.

[Methuen]

Why would someone hurt themselves like this? What does this accomplish? I have learned that addicts engage in behavior that is harmful to themselves and their families but the payoff for this behavior- to them, the drug effect, is greater and this drives the addiction.

I wonder if the payoff- the creating stress and upset for their family members is a greater need for them.

As to their threats of self harm. When I was a teen, during one of her rages, BPD mother ran into my room with a plastic bag on her head. She didn't want to do herself harm, if she did, she'd have done it in her own room. No she wanted me to see this, and was screaming things at me like "you made me do this" (as best as I can recall), She was in my face with the bag over her head yelling at me. Of course I tore it off her right away.

NW I am sorry your mother ran into your bedroom with a plastic bag over her head when you were a teen and said "you made me do this".  You are right that she wanted you to see that. That is so messed.  My mom did different things, but the goal was the same: to manipulate our feelings (make us feel bad and guilty) so that they could control us. 

As for the payoff - creating stress and upset for family members - yes.  I would add: for the goal of getting any kind of attention, but especially the kind that comes out of chaos.  Last weekend I got stern with mom when she insisted she could put her own drops in.  Not challenging her would mean I agree with her thinking.  So I straight up told her I was tired of her "fighting" everything. She brags about having a fighting spirit.  I told her that "fighting spirit" and putting her own drops in was the cause of her going blind.  I also told her I was sick of it and hearing about it.  I also told her that her and I were nothing alike because while she was a "fighter", I am not, and don't want anything to do with it.  I was irritated.  She had a little smirk on her face that she got me irritated.  I think for her it's an accomplishment.  It gives her a rush.  She thrives on chaos and conflict.  And I think that's the payoff you are referring to. Causing "chaos" is within her "box".  If things are going along too smoothly outside of the box, she has to contrive another crisis, to get back into her "comfort zone" which is "inside her box".

She's always been like that, but the circumstances she is living in now at her age, with her chronic and acute health problems and her frailty and blindness, is nothing short of crazy.

No normal person would choose that IMHO.

[Notwendy]

I agree- the self destructive behavior is crazy. And yes, chaos and crises- even in assisted living. If she were to have settled and been happy- there's less chaos.

There are times when I have gotten upset with her and realized the "gotcha" moment. She has a sort of grin when this happens. I feel like a fool when I fall for it. But lately it's exasperation.

She called me up the other day and the first thing she said was a lie and I knew it was a lie. I avoid speaking with her as I don't want to be angry -and the lying- it's like she can't not do it. Conversations don't work as if I say more than one sentence to her, she claims she can't hear me. She's complained about hearing but refuses to let the audiologist- who comes to her assisted living to check people regularly- check hers. Then she claims "nobody told her".

Rather than to try to explain something to her, I told her helper- who went over it with her. The lie was that the helper didn't tell her and she asked me about it and claimed "nobody told me" and I just said. "this is BS" Then, I tried to explain it to her and she said she couldn't hear well and I just out of exasperation said "I try to communicate these things to you but nothing effing works".

I won't resort to calling her names or cursing at her directly but the inability to communicate something and then her claiming she can't hear me and didn't know feels crazy. She calls me with financial questions but there's no way to inform her because she says she can't hear me, and so she then says she didn't have any idea and so avoids any responsiblity. Her room/board bills charges are electronic payments. She knows what these charges are. She's the one with the checkbook and credit card making the non essential purchases. She knows exactly what she's doing.

So, like you, we have to have boundaries. I understand your decision to let your mother stay in hospital and let social services decide. I have a friend whose father (NPD) was in that situation. He was living with his girlfriend who wouldn't take him back home and had no where to go. He's now in a nursing home with limited finances. My friend has not abandoned him though, she visits, brings him his favorite snacks and things he needs. She has a full time job. With his main needs met, she can more easily visit and do these things for him. He is still difficult to deal with personally but she can manage visits.

You know we'd both do something like this too if this was a similar situation. What is aggravating is that my BPD mother is creating "need" on purpose. She will spend money and then say she needs a blanket or a sweater. Of course I'd get her a sweater or blanket if there was genuine need- but she can afford her own blanket and I don't want to enable this behavior. So it's a hard "no".

Similarly to your mother, Methuen, it's somehow a deliberate dependency. Maybe it's their fear of abandonment too? If your mother accepted home health- you wouldn't be doing as much as you do? I think what is frustrating is the trying to help someone who won't help themselves and attempts to help don't work with them. What they can't seem to grasp is that- if they were able to accept help and work with us- we'd be involved by choice.

[Methuen]

She's complained about hearing but refuses to let the audiologist- who comes to her assisted living to check people regularly- check hers. Then she claims "nobody told her".

This is just classic. It’s like my mom who tells her Dr she needs more antidepressant- which involves my H because he takes her to the appointment - and then when it’s prescribed and sent to the pharmacy- she refuses to have the prescription filled and actually take the drug that SHE asked for.

My working theory for your mom refusing to see the audiologist is that she gets more attention when people have to repeat themselves.  People get naturally frustrated, which gives her a rush. Lastly it works

better for her to say “ Nobody told her” - as this lets her blame others and never take accountability.  In her world, those benefits outweigh the benefits of actually being able to hear. Just my take.

Rather than to try to explain something to her, I told her helper- who went over it with her. The lie was that the helper didn't tell her and she asked me about it and claimed "nobody told me" and I just said. "this is BS" Then, I tried to explain it to her and she said she couldn't hear well and I just out of exasperation said "I try to communicate these things to you but nothing effing works".

We’re human.  I forgive myself for these moments and I trust you do too. She’s got you in a loop that feeds her need for attention and chaos.  Is it possible to do less explaining, and just let her figure it out herself through negative consequences - especially when you know the helper told her?  I mean she’s chosen not to see the audiologist right?  She could fix this problem but she doesn’t want to. 

I won't resort to calling her names or cursing at her directly but the inability to communicate something and then her claiming she can't hear me and didn't know feels crazy. She calls me with financial questions but there's no way to inform her because she says she can't hear me, and so she then says she didn't have any idea and so avoids any responsiblity. Her room/board bills charges are electronic payments. She knows what these charges are. She's the one with the checkbook and credit card making the non essential purchases. She knows exactly what she's doing.

yes she does. Allowing natural consequences to take their course may be the only way to step away from the cycle.

I had to come to terms with this 3 years ago when my mom cancelled home care service for getting her eye drops. She was the one in control.  I knew it would lead to blindness because the ophthalmologist said so. 

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.

I don’t know that you can prevent your mom from spending her way into the poorhouse any more than I could prevent my mom from going blind.

These are their choices for how to live their life, until the system decides to give us authority to protect them from themselves.

“Similarly to your mother, Methuen, it's somehow a deliberate dependency. Maybe it's their fear of abandonment too? If your mother accepted home health- you wouldn't be doing as much as you do? I think what is frustrating is the trying to help someone who won't help themselves and attempts to help don't work with them. What they can't seem to grasp is that- if they were able to accept help and work with us- we'd be involved by choice. “. This

[Notwendy]

You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.

I don’t know that you can prevent your mom from spending her way into the poorhouse any more than I could prevent my mom from going blind.

These are their choices for how to live their life, until the system decides to give us authority to protect them from themselves.

Exactly

[Notwendy]

BPD mother said something odd to me the other day. When I speak to her, a common story is how someone did something "terrible" to her. The "terrible" thing is questionable- but not unbelievable. Something like someone took something (which was found later) or ruined something of hers or was mean to her.

The other day I called her and I may have woken her up from a nap as she sounded a bit groggy- as if she just woke up. Then she said something terrible happened to her. I said what and she said "that nurse came in and bandaged my leg!!" And then went on about how it was painful it was but it felt better now.

It sounded odd because what the nurse was doing was- providing medical care for her- the nurse was doing something good, not terrible. I didn't say anything back, that's not useful to try to convince her that it wasn't terrible.

My hunch is that this is her "story" and being a bit groggy from just waking up- she started with the "something terrible" and then coudn't think of what would fit the story as well and so came up with the one about the nurse.

It's sometimes difficult to know if what she says is her own perspective or something she made up but this time, it seemed too odd.

[Methuen]

Yesterday was the first day of mom’s home care eye drops ( 4x per day).

She called around 6pm “with proof” this wasn’t going to work, because the last person to come didn’t give her all the drops she was supposed to have. H and I were on the call together.

Me: “Did you tell her you needed one more drop?”

Mom: she just left!  And she didn’t even put the book (charting notes) away!

Me: “Did you tell her you needed another drop?

Later, mom in an accusing and authoritative voice: “You never tell me what I’m good at”

We were at a loss for words.  The truth is that she can’t do anything anymore- she doesn’t even get dressed but stays in her PJ’s.

She just couldn’t wait to call us to complain about home care on the first day.  Of course she was mean about it.

[Notwendy]

So frustrating.

When BPD mother was in the hospital several months ago and determined to be eligible for Hospice, not on the basis of any one condition but by her age and some chronic ones, I thought it was a good idea- as she wasn't being compliant with care (which is how she got to the hospital) and she was also refusing care at the hospital. Being sent home with Hospice had a lot of benefits for he.  It was good for her- so good - that her health improved and she no longer qualified.

So once off Hospice- it was now necessary to find providers for the medical care she needs. While on Hospice, BPD mother was telling people how much she regretted the decision ( she could have discontinued it herself at any time) and that is was the "worst decision she made".

On the first visit with her new nurse provider- she said the same thing but added that she can not believe her daughter, NW (me), suggested it. I didn't suggest it- the hospital staff did and the Hospice coordinator at the time assured me that she had explained it to my mother and my mother agreed to it. After that, the staff also asked me about it and I agreed at the time. I do recall telling my mother that I thought it was a good option for her-(since she didn't have any other ones as she had refused care).

But also at the time, I did worry- is this the right decision as it does limit care- but what was limited was the kind of  care that my mother had refused. There was no other choice and I  was told she agreed to it. I felt a sense of relief that she did well with it.

So when I heard that she had told the nurse that -it was demoralizing. It also wasn't true. This wasn't the first time she had made comments like this. So- like your Mother, Methuen, if she's not pleased with her care and you have been involved in suggesting it, or setting it up- then her upset involves you too.

I haven't spoken to my mother's new nurse providers and they haven't called me. If they did call me, of course I would speak to them but I am not initiating it. I just don't want to have any involvment in something my mother isn't going to be satisfied with.

I think what is frustrating is- your mother needs the eye drops and she needs home care to help with that- for her own good, and then to have your good intentions disregarded is demoralizing.  You've done what you can. Your mother is in control of this. I think you have done all you can to convince her and now- she needs to decide to accept it.

[Methuen]

Yesterday we celebrated our Canadian Thanksgiving.  We have out of town family staying with us and both our adult children.  We had invited upd mom with the offer we would pick her up , drive her here, and bring her home when she was ready.  At the last minute, she declined on the phone, saying “you don’t know how hard my life is”.  Then she said “someone can drive a plate” to my house.  To which my husband replied “sure! we’ll bring it over sometime tomorrow.” To which she replied “not today ?” To which he replied “we want to have a drink with our meal but we don’t drink and drive”.  She replied “I don’t give a damn anymore!  I just want to die!”

Meanwhile she had known we were going to watch videos from when our kids were little and she was also in them. She was interested in that and kindbof excited.  So why did she decline?

We are all fatigued by her drama.  We enjoyed a nice Thanksgiving without her.

[Methuen]

She also sent a text t to H yesterday saying “just to let you know two or 3 is enough for me.  We can chat.  I’m already exhausted“ ( from home care coming 4x per day to put her eye drops in).  Yesterday was the third day since they started coming to do this service so her blindness doesn’t advance as quickly.

[Methuen]

The interesting thing is that the eye drop service wasn’t initiated by us.  It was initiated by home care after her home assessment was recently done.

So this has the potential to get interesting.  This is between her and home care.

[zachira]

Yes, this is between her and home health care. Is there any relief in knowing that you are not directly responsible for how this turns out?

[Methuen]

yes and no.  It's complicated.

no because she is still my mother and I can't imagine feeling relief until her physical and emotional pain and suffering is finally over and my responsibilities as her daughter are over as well.  And since her father (who was just like her and worse) lingered to be 97 (and her siblings are lingering in their 90's) , I have to expect this could go on a very long time still, despite her physical and emotional fragility.  What is not fragile, is her "fighting" spirit. That burns fast and strong inside her.  Unless she decides impulsively one day to swallow a whole blister pack of pills.

yes because cognitively I know she's the one driving the bus who has made all the decisions that have led her to where she is now, which is truly pathetic.

Still, we must "deal with her".  Living 5 minutes from her means the drama continues to surround us daily.  She is already inching her way to cancelling the eye drop service and this is only the 4th day.  What will be interesting is how home care responds, since this time they are the ones that initiated the service.  We are bracing ourselves that they will let her cancel and just walk away, since she still has "capacity", and there is "no room at the inn" (assisted living) with a long wait list, many of whose needs are reportedly higher than hers.

So I wouldn't call it relief to know we are not responsible for how this turns out.  We still have to observe it.  It's like waiting for the derailment you know is coming, you just don't know when.  While we know we aren't "responsible" for her situation (including her blindness in one eye and other physical and emotional conditions), it doesn't help us as we are ultimately the ones who are "effectively responsible" for her daily living and must continue to deal with her.

That's the clincher: having to deal with her.  As long as we have to deal with her, any relief we feel feels small by comparison, and temporary.

And ultimately, being an observer to all this feels like torture.

Like NW, we aren't comfortable with going all out no contact.

Although I've gone, LC, and H only sees her once a week except when she has appointments, it's just way too much with all her texts and emails which blame, attack, but more often are designed to manipulate us in ways to perpetuate the caregiving, or alternately make us into mean and horrible people if we don't.

It's the emotional incest piece that is the kicker.  And even though we recognize it, and don't accept what she says at face value, the constant exposure has worn us out completely.

There is relief in knowing that her friends have open eyes, and feel bad for us.  That has been hugely relieving, and helpful to know.

[zachira]

You are dealing with your mother with your eyes wide open. It is like your body and mind are telling you, you can't do this anymore. Sometimes when there is ongoing abuse, the hardest part can be when we realize that we are the target and that the abuse is intentional. There is no more making excuses for the abuse, like some clueless person thoughtlessly saying something like: "Oh, it is not personal, she is just not feeling well". You know your mother deliberately treats you badly, blames you for how she feels. I remember there was a time when it seemed like none of your mothers' friends could see the abuse, so good it is helping that now they do. How do you deal with the constant anxiety and recover more quickly from the latest rounds of abuse?

It seems your biggest worry is that the abuse is never going to end, that your mother will live for many more years.

I am hoping that you and your husband will not drive your mother any place anymore. She could easily refuse to go home and demand to go to your house. There seems to be no new level to which she will stoop, which has got to be causing a lot of emotional turmoil for you.

The emotional incest is so painful and the ongoing repercussions are so many,  often so difficult to put into words. I have just realized that I am way too nice to people who are narcissists like many of my family members, and they get angry with me when I don't say and do what they expect. My new boundary is not to explain anything to these people as the conversations are all one sided, all about their needs with no regard for mine. We are all a work in progress. You have come a long ways.

[Notwendy]

At the last minute, she declined on the phone, saying “you don’t know how hard my life is”.  Then she said “someone can drive a plate” to my house. 

My BPD mother does this too! I posted before how I organized a family get together, for her- and at the last minute she said she "didn't feel well" and I felt so demoralized. I was the host and did the planning. So I said people will be disappointed to not see you, implying that I would be going.

The rest of the conversation went this way- she said maybe if she feels better, she will call a cab and come over. I said OK if that's what you want to do--
and the next thing she said was "but I can't get into the cab, so maybe I will ask a neighbor to help me get into the cab- if the neighbor is available".

So, she would miss her own party--- and I think she wanted me to stay back with her too with that additional comment. Your situation- you invited your mother to a family get together- at the last minute- she decides she isn't going to attend, and then also has this expectation that you and your H won't either because you are going to bring her her meal.

I wonder if - when people go through more difficutly to do things for them- this somehow translates into feeling a higher value for themselves? Like if you missed your family get together for your mother- that makes her feel more valued?

[Methuen]

Yesterday H brought mom her groceries.  While there she started in on her complaining and saying the typical “I want to die “ drama.

Meanwhile, she cancelled several home care visits for her eye drops this week.

H staight up told her that if she cancels her eye drops, he is cancelling his services to help her, including grocery shopping and appointment transports.

Today she texted him that she will keep her drops 4 x a day and stop saying she wants to die. 

Haha

A betting person would play for how long this will last.

I have no idea if she’s been texting me because I blocked her a few days ago after a text where she was wining about going blind.  Really??!!


I’m beyond “done”.

[zachira]

Sometimes when a person is truly done with all the drama from a disordered person, the mind and body take over, the decisions are final and there are no more attempts to placate the disordered person.

[Notwendy]

I've done the kind of thing your H did. I needed to get something done for my mother and I wanted to do it alone- so I could focus on just that.

She mentioned she'd like to "visit" when I did it (which would make it difficult to get the job done in time). I told her if she didn't let me have some time without distractions, I'd get in the car and leave. She wanted the task done so she didn't interfere. I could visit afterwards.

This was a one time task. With groceries and the drops - that is an ongoing need. I don't know how long your mother will comply but for your H, if he keeps that boundary- and doesn't bring groceries if she cancels her visits, she will learn he means it.

BPD mother also starts out with something drastic. The recent one was "I guess I will just have to go to a nursing home". There's no way. She doesn't want to be in one.  She has qualified before for nursing home care and refused to go.

[Methuen]

What are your red lines in the sand? It sounds like you have many already yet will have to draw some new ones if  your husband cancels his services to her. Not driving her home from the hospital and letting her stay there while the hospital staff figure out alternatives for her are one of many likely outcomes.

Yes.  Our T who also happens to be a registered nurse counsels us on this very thing.  Yesterday I asked her for advice on what to tell the emerg doctor when they inform us they will discharge her.  I scrambled to write it down.

My H stated his boundary to mom this week.  Two things: He told her that for him to continue helping her with groceries and taking her to appointments:
1) She must accept the help from home care 4x per day
2) not say things like “I want to die” or “I’m going to kill myself in front of the family “

He recorded the conversation.  It took an hour.  She deflected the entire time.  It’s remarkable to listen to.  I think a psychiatrist would be fascinated.  He did an amazing job. When he asked her the question “who do you blame?” She deflected. He was a broken record.  He must have repeated the question a dozen times.  She never answered it. 

The truth is she’s backed herself into a corner because she can’t survive living in her home without us.  Home health even acknowledged that and said if it wasn’t for our support, she would likely be in hospital within 2 weeks.

The day after H’s big talk with her, she texted him to tell him she would keep getting the drops. 

She can’t live in her home without us. She NEEDS us.

Last weekend she declined joining us for Thanksgiving dinner while her GC grandson was home, and then flipped out when H told her we would deliver her plate “tomorrow”. She wanted it to be delivered when it was hot and fresh which would mean the rest of us could wait and eat it cold after spending all day cooking it.

She was on speakerphone so our adult kis heard her flip out and say she wanted to die.

Last night was our sons last night with us, so we had another family dinner.  We did not invite mom.  Coincidentally, she facetimed H while we were eating.  She was all sweet and making conversation.  The phone got passed around to everyone in he room, so she got to see we were gathered without her.  The sweetness felt fake and disengenuous.  I spoke to H about it later when we were alone and he said absolutely fake.  It felt icky.

I don’t know where all this leaves me.  There was a time I would have driven the plate over to her.  So I guess I’ve detached.  It was my suggestion to NOT invite her for dinner last night. Twenty years ago I could not have imagined needing boundaries like this with my MOTHER.

Toxic people are just a very unfortunate thing.  They bring so much misery to everyone.  It is a very difficult thing to move on and “let go of the rope” (from “the man on the bridge”) with anyone, but a family member…

Now it’s the weekend again, and I feel this obligation to go do a visit.  I really don’t want to…

[zachira]

It sounds like you and your husband have the ball in your court: your mother cannot stay in her home without the help you provide her.
It does not sound safe for you to go visit your mother, as for sure she will be pushing you boundaries and guilt tripping you. Does it really make any sense to visit her? It seems she will be just as unhappy whether you come or not.

[Notwendy]

I know the feeling of that obligatory pull. If I am a bit ahead of you in the process of detaching, it's been due to the experiences during the time of my father's passing. Prior to that, the plan was to have my parents move closer to me- before I saw what that was involved.

I hope you can give yourself permission to let go of the rope, because your mother landing in the hospital system is exactly where she will get the level of care she needs. You and your H are more than helpful but she needs nursing level care. It won't be as she wants it but it is what she needs. She won't be happy but she won't be happy even if you and your H do her care.

You may feel you are letting go and she is falling off a bridge but it's a soft landing for her into hospital and her needs being met.

[Methuen]

Does it really make any sense to visit her? It seems she will be just as unhappy whether you come or not.

Thanks for asking the question. You are correct that it makes no logical "sense" to visit her.  Yes, she will be miserable whether I visit or not.  I know she has psychologically trained me to feel bad and believe I am bad, if I'm not looking after her.  Unlearning that... is like unlearning emotions, which is a hard thing to do after 60 + years.

Today I am staying home.  One day at a time.

I hope you can give yourself permission to let go of the rope, because your mother landing in the hospital system is exactly where she will get the level of care she needs. You and your H are more than helpful but she needs nursing level care. It won't be as she wants it but it is what she needs. She won't be happy but she won't be happy even if you and your H do her care. You may feel you are letting go and she is falling off a bridge but it's a soft landing for her into hospital and her needs being met.

Thank you for this.

[Notwendy]

It's hard, Methuen. We are raised to feel obligated to them and in a way, we want to be, because this would be a "normal" relationship- and I think that is something we wish for. The difficult reality is that our mother's don't recognize boundaries and their emotional needs are extensive.

If your mother's needs are being taken care of- you can still visit and spend time with her to the extent you feel you are willing to do that.

[Methuen]

Late yesterday my H received a flurry of text messages from mom.  The series was demanding, desperate and guilt ridden, all from waify victim perspective. 

Last night one of her friends called to tell us that mom is distressed about us going away in two weeks.  We’ll be leaving the country.  Her GC grandson is traveling with us, as are two more family members (mom’s niece).  The friend is having her eyes opened with mom’s behavior, and has said a number of times how sad she feels for us in this situation.

She had an idea she wanted to share.  She was wondering if my mom could go into respite while we were out of the country. My H promptly told her that had been offered to her by the nurse who did the RAI assessment in her home ( a few weeks ago). Mom angrily replied “I’m not going there “ so the nurse just objectively went on to the next part of the assessment.

Mom’s friend couldn’t believe it.  I pointed out that by refusing, mom keeps her helping friends ( in their 70’s 80’s and 90’s) coming to her. 

She replied “well that’s right “!

This particular helper friend has driven her to eye appointments in the past.  Mom has another set of macular degeneration shots while we are away.  Despite what we just told her about mom refusing respite, she instantly said she would change her own appointment so she could take mom for her eye shots.  We repeatedly told her she shouldn’t do that, but she felt the obligation too strongly.

Mom has cultivated a team of rescuers.

Meanwhile, before our last trip, mom secretly stopped taking her heart medication, and ended up in emergency with symptoms.  I have a strong feeling of “knowing “ that in the next two weeks leading up to our departure, she is going to try to sabotage our trip.  It’s a pattern over 20 years since my dad died.  I’m actually not catastrophising here.

I haven’t seen her in 2 weeks since before she said she was too tired to come for Thanksgiving dinner.  I think we are going to go visit today because I feel ghosting her will do more harm than good. 

My strategy is to bring her a meal and pretend nothing is going on.  And stay grey rock.

Any thoughts or suggestions?  I’m all ears as I consider going into the lions den.  She is used to short visits on the weekend so just ghosting her won’t help her anxiety or sense of abandonment before we go away.

It’s always a dilemma with her. I value any ideas or thoughts you could share.