Who also is missing their Ex BPD?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I'm in this boat. Big big big time.

She is gourgeous, my ex.

And I realize now how bad I'm addicted. Like I can't imagine a more beautiful woman in the world. Nobody. Not even close.

Such a trauma bond. So addicting.

And then I look inside my car, filled to the brim with trash and I see my mental health, and the healthy part of me is like - "you were dying being in this relationship".

Because I was. I had no voice. I had to be on-call for emotional tantrums at all times - the middle of the night, middle of the work day, middle of talking to patients, middle of my custody case, middle of being sick, middle of having 1000 things to do as a dad. None of it mattered. "You don't love me I hate you" was always the response. And I kept trying. Kept saying "this time I won't mess up". But "I did". But not really. I'm just a human being. And I deserve and need peace, even if I lose what I believe to be the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Even if I have to imagine her having sex with another guy. All of those things men thing about during a breakup.

My kids need peace. And I have to give it to them. Or one day I'll never forgive myself.

Mod note: split into new topic from decade old thread

[needsupport33]

I'm in this boat. Big big big time.

She is gourgeous, my ex.

And I realize now how bad I'm addicted. Like I can't imagine a more beautiful woman in the world. Nobody. Not even close.

Such a trauma bond. So addicting.

And then I look inside my car, filled to the brim with trash and I see my mental health, and the healthy part of me is like - "you were dying being in this relationship".

Because I was. I had no voice. I had to be on-call for emotional tantrums at all times - the middle of the night, middle of the work day, middle of talking to patients, middle of my custody case, middle of being sick, middle of having 1000 things to do as a dad. None of it mattered. "You don't love me I hate you" was always the response. And I kept trying. Kept saying "this time I won't mess up". But "I did". But not really. I'm just a human being. And I deserve and need peace, even if I lose what I believe to be the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Even if I have to imagine her having sex with another guy. All of those things men thing about during a breakup.

My kids need peace. And I have to give it to them. Or one day I'll never forgive myself.

Mod note: split into new topic from decade old thread

[SnailShell]

Also yes, I'm in this boat too.

But y'know... would I really want her back?

A girl telling you she'd beat the sh** out of you isn't normal.

If I treated her like she treated me, I'd be a real piece of dirt, yknow?

The fact that my ex is incredibly pretty and sometimes are me feel loved is... yknow... it's not enough

I want more for myself.

But if I could wave a wand, make her 'normal' and have her here with me to cuddle... I'd take it in an instant right now.

It drained me, it tired me out... no.

It's not for me.

But I still miss her, yes.

[Notwendy]

I'm in this boat. Big big big time.

 "you were dying being in this relationship".

Because I was. I had no voice. I had to be on-call for emotional tantrums at all times - the middle of the night, middle of the work day, middle of talking to patients, middle of my custody case, middle of being sick, middle of having 1000 things to do as a dad. None of it mattered. "You don't love me I hate you" was always the response. And I kept trying. Kept saying "this time I won't mess up". But "I did". But not really. I'm just a human being. And I deserve and need peace, even if I lose what I believe to be the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Even if I have to imagine her having sex with another guy. All of those things men thing about during a breakup.

My kids need peace. And I have to give it to them. Or one day I'll never forgive myself.

My BPD mother was strikingly beautiful in her younger years and even now, at her advanced age. I think my father was addicted to her and trauma bonded. I watched this relationship consume his time, his financial resources.

I commend you for believing in what you need and what your kids need. Yes, you need peace and so do they and also- they need a father and for you to be that best father for them, you need to also be emotionally and physically healthy.

I commend you for standing up for yourself and for them.

[HoratioX]

I'm in this boat. Big big big time.

She is gourgeous, my ex.

And I realize now how bad I'm addicted. Like I can't imagine a more beautiful woman in the world. Nobody. Not even close.

Such a trauma bond. So addicting.

And then I look inside my car, filled to the brim with trash and I see my mental health, and the healthy part of me is like - "you were dying being in this relationship".

Because I was. I had no voice. I had to be on-call for emotional tantrums at all times - the middle of the night, middle of the work day, middle of talking to patients, middle of my custody case, middle of being sick, middle of having 1000 things to do as a dad. None of it mattered. "You don't love me I hate you" was always the response. And I kept trying. Kept saying "this time I won't mess up". But "I did". But not really. I'm just a human being. And I deserve and need peace, even if I lose what I believe to be the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. Even if I have to imagine her having sex with another guy. All of those things men thing about during a breakup.

My kids need peace. And I have to give it to them. Or one day I'll never forgive myself.

Mod note: split into new topic from decade old thread

Physical attraction is about reproduction, one of the strongest biological drives. Emotions are irrational, and when we're strongly physically attracted to someone, our emotions make us do irrational things.

Like pine away for someone who is toxic to us.

Someone with BPD is toxic. They know how to put on an act that triggers the very emotions that make us pliable to them. They invest enormously in their physical appearance not just because it's something they can control but because they know on an intuitive level it is power over others.

You need to make  your rational brain -- the part that can see plainly how toxic your ex is -- stronger than your irrational brain -- the part that is responding to physical needs.

You might want to remember that half or more of what makes a woman physically attractive is phony. Make up,  hair dye, hair styles, clothing to flatter the body, shoes to make them taller and therefore look thinner, and so on. That means any woman can improve her appearance by the same amount if she wants to. The ones who start with a more attractive baseline can do more, yes, but it's not hard for a plain woman to make herself attractive if she wants to.

I'm saying all that so you take a good, hard look at your ex. Was she all that? Or was it mostly a facade propped up by her throwing herself at you? Are you really saying you can't find the same or better in another woman, but this one mentally healthy?

Start looking for another woman. They're out there. Underneath all the make up and so on, they're not much different. I live in a part of the country where 80% are overweight, so that narrows down the pool of attractive women to me, but they're still out there. There's just more competition for them. So, improve yourself so you can compete, too.

Whatever you do, work on the part that keeps overriding common sense, preferably with a therapist. If someone is destructive to you, you shouldn't be yearning for them.

Good luck.
 

[Notwendy]

Start looking for another woman. They're out there. Underneath all the make up and so on, they're not much different

Eventually but not yet. It's known that if a person ends a dysfunctional relationship without doing their part to examine what led them into it and why they stayed- without doing the recovery work- they risk repeating the same disordered pattern with the next relationship. Better to do some recovery work first.

Whatever you do, work on the part that keeps overriding common sense, preferably with a therapist. If someone is destructive to you, you shouldn't be yearning for them.

This part first- because whatever led you to be involved with someone who is destructive to you- is something worth looking into and changing.

Underneath all the make up and so on, they're not much different.

I think what you are trying to say is that, while chemistry is a factor, what is on the inside is going to be more important than on the outside. That goes for men too and so it's worth working on your own emotional recovery. A woman who values the "inside" is going to also be looking for that.

[HoratioX]

I think what you are trying to say is that, while chemistry is a factor, what is on the inside is going to be more important than on the outside. That goes for men too and so it's worth working on your own emotional recovery. A woman who values the "inside" is going to also be looking for that.

No, what I'm actually saying is it sounds like you're drawn to what your ex looks like more than what is on the inside because what is on the inside has been shown to be toxic and damaging. She may well have a profound mental illness and should be treated compassionately for that. But if you're ignoring at the problems that come with that because you're so attracted to her physically, then it really isn't the person inside you're missing. It's not about chemistry either. It's just simple outward biology.

And when it comes down to it, a woman has a lot of control over what she looks like on the outside, as well as the host of means I described earlier to affect that. You can certainly find another woman who has those qualities but, I'd  hope, is also a good and healthy person on the inside.

[Notwendy]

That makes sense. It almost appeared as if my BPD mother had people "spellbound" to her. She has a certain "external" persona that is different from who she is in private with immediate family. I think there is a physical aspect to this, but also there's a charming persona as well, that is attractive. I have seen her turn it on with one person and then turn it off when that person isn't there. I agree, a part of this persona is looks- but there's more.

Most people act differently in public than in private. We may wear office casual at work and act in a professional role but old jeans at home, and act more casual with people. We may dress up for a date and be more formal,  but the formal aspect is still authentic and not much different than who we are at home.

My BPD mother's outward persona is a stark difference from how she acts at home. It's eerie to watch her do it. There's something magnetic about it. Men are attracted to her. But it also feels false. It's a very attractive persona but in reality, she's a mentally ill and emotionally unstable person.

I agree that what needsupport is "missing" is his ex's persona but that persona has come with an emotionally and verbally abusive person who is also cruel to his children.

[SnailShell]

That makes sense. It almost appeared as if my BPD mother had people "spellbound" to her. She has a certain "external" persona that is different from who she is in private with immediate family. I think there is a physical aspect to this, but also there's a charming persona as well, that is attractive. I have seen her turn it on with one person and then turn it off when that person isn't there. I agree, a part of this persona is looks- but there's more.

Most people act differently in public than in private. We may wear office casual at work and act in a professional role but old jeans at home, and act more casual with people. We may dress up for a date and be more formal,  but the formal aspect is still authentic and not much different than who we are at home.

My BPD mother's outward persona is a stark difference from how she acts at home. It's eerie to watch her do it. There's something magnetic about it. Men are attracted to her. But it also feels false. It's a very attractive persona but in reality, she's a mentally ill and emotionally unstable person.

I agree that what needsupport is "missing" is his ex's persona but that persona has come with an emotionally and verbally abusive person who is also cruel to his children.

I also spotted this - my ex had twinkly, smiley (or sometimes sad) eyes; which she could turn on and off seemingly.

I thought she didn't know, so I once complemented her on her shiny eyes, and she almost completed my sentence for me:

"... shiny eyes - I know, yeah

[SnailShell]

^ looks like half my post went missing, but I was just saying - her persona could also fail in clumsy ways - she lacked social slickness, even though she wanted to convey a sense of that (I think)

[findinggratitude]

I find it helpful when I start missing her (which is far less frequent and less intense than the chronic ache of it the first few months; something shifted dramatically as I entered this third month without her...time really does help) to try to really focus on what I miss specifically. It's almost entirely physical at this point. And that's just biology, or the space that she used to fill being, well, space. But then I think about the unbelievable stress and confusion I lived with constantly, so constantly that I kind of adapted to it as normal, and that the physical stuff was, much of the time, just a reprieve from that stress. She caused it and then took it away through affection. I don't think I could have had one without the other with her. And it's hard to recognize that we're actually feeling better NOW because we aren't used to a baseline of feeling fine. We only know the struggle and then the relief from that struggle (often through sex of affection) and that relief feels more intense or better somehow than just feeling reasonably good pretty much all the time. But it's not. It's all this construct in a sense.

[HoratioX]

That makes sense. It almost appeared as if my BPD mother had people "spellbound" to her. She has a certain "external" persona that is different from who she is in private with immediate family. I think there is a physical aspect to this, but also there's a charming persona as well, that is attractive. I have seen her turn it on with one person and then turn it off when that person isn't there. I agree, a part of this persona is looks- but there's more.

Most people act differently in public than in private. We may wear office casual at work and act in a professional role but old jeans at home, and act more casual with people. We may dress up for a date and be more formal,  but the formal aspect is still authentic and not much different than who we are at home.

My BPD mother's outward persona is a stark difference from how she acts at home. It's eerie to watch her do it. There's something magnetic about it. Men are attracted to her. But it also feels false. It's a very attractive persona but in reality, she's a mentally ill and emotionally unstable person.

I agree that what needsupport is "missing" is his ex's persona but that persona has come with an emotionally and verbally abusive person who is also cruel to his children.

I think the easiest way to test this is to ask yourself if she behaved exactly the same way but was not physically attractive, would you still be as drawn to her? Would you still be pining away from her?

Or are you merely looking for things to try to rationalize what is mostly or completely a physical attraction?

It may sound like I'm being shallow, but I'm actually trying to be the opposite. If you are truly drawn to her spirit and personality, then it doesn't matter what vessel that comes in. What she looks like is immaterial. And, her mental illness might not be a deal breaker, either, as that is part of internal makeup, too.

But if instead you are looking for ways to justify being drawn to someone who is so toxic for any other reason than her looks, you're not doing yourself any favors -- in fact, you're just setting yourself up for more problems later. You're likely codependent, too.  These are serious issues to think about and, I would recommend, speak to a therapist about.

Now, all that said, I don't have anything else to add. If you're not ready to consider those issues seriously -- if you're still looking for ways to justify or rationalize her behaviors and your attraction to her -- then you're probably not ready to heal and move on, either. And until you are, you're likely to just keep repeating the same errors that will keep you in a cycle of what some might call abuse from a mentally ill person.

[Notwendy]

It may sound like I'm being shallow, but I'm actually trying to be the opposite. If you are truly drawn to her spirit and personality, then it doesn't matter what vessel that comes in.

But if instead you are looking for ways to justify being drawn to someone who is so toxic for any other reason than her looks, you're not doing yourself any favors -- in fact, you're just setting yourself up for more problems later. You're likely codependent, too.  These are serious issues to think about and, I would recommend, speak to a therapist about.

Now, all that said, I don't have anything else to add. If you're not ready to consider those issues seriously -- if you're still looking for ways to justify or rationalize her behaviors and your attraction to her -- then you're probably not ready to heal and move on, either. And until you are, you're likely to just keep repeating the same errors that will keep you in a cycle of what some might call abuse from a mentally ill person.

That is why I commented on seeking another woman and cautioned to not go looking for another woman too soon- get counseling first. It has been documented that without doing this- there's a risk of getting into another relationship with similar patterns. You don't just want to end this relationship- you want to stop the dynamics, and to do this- it takes looking at your part in this and also recovering from the emotional aspects of this relationship before seeking another.

For the sake of your children- they've already experienced a step mother with BPD. They need to have some time to emotionally recover too.

Looks and persona may be attractive but they aren't going to carry through in a long term stable relationship if the inside isn't emotionally capable of one.

[HoratioX]

That is why I commented on seeking another woman and cautioned to not go looking for another woman too soon- get counseling first. It has been documented that without doing this- there's a risk of getting into another relationship with similar patterns. You don't just want to end this relationship- you want to stop the dynamics, and to do this- it takes looking at your part in this and also recovering from the emotional aspects of this relationship before seeking another.

For the sake of your children- they've already experienced a step mother with BPD. They need to have some time to emotionally recover too.

Looks and persona may be attractive but they aren't going to carry through in a long term stable relationship if the inside isn't emotionally capable of one.

I think it's wise for a person to wait until they're ready to move on. But here's the problem -- if someone is pining away from their ex with BPD (etc.), that's worse. That means they either haven't learned anything from their previous experiences or are codependent, or both. The way out of that situation is to first look within and strengthen their dignity and sense of self worth and to find a better, healthier person to focus their attention and affection on.

There's no timeline for doing this. But if it's a question between having some need and entertaining going back to the toxic ex versus focusing instead on self improvement and finding someone better and healthier, the answer seems pretty clear.

[Notwendy]

. But here's the problem -- if someone is pining away from their ex with BPD (etc.), that's worse. That means they either haven't learned anything from their previous experiences or are codependent, or both. The way out of that situation is to first look within and strengthen their dignity and sense of self worth and to find a better, healthier person to focus their attention and affection on.

Yes, well said.