How to enforce boundaries when living together ???

[SuperDaddy]

Hi all !

I have read a lot about boundaries, but I got to the conclusion that they can't work in a marital setting, especially when you have kids and you work from home. Because you, your kids, and your personal stuff are always there, available for whatever type of abuse your partner wants to engage in. So the BPD partner, while still angry, may just take pleasure in walking all over you, and that may keep going for many days until their anger finally subsides.

Let's review a basic definition of how to enforce boundaries:

To enforce boundaries, you must clearly define your limits, communicate them directly and calmly using "I" statements, and then consistently follow through with actions (consequences) when they're crossed, showing you mean it through your behavior, not just words, by disengaging, changing the subject, or limiting contact if necessary, to teach others how to treat you respectfully.

You can see how the definition above won't work, right? I mean, you're in the same house, sharing resources, and coparenting the kids, so contact is unavoidable. You can completely disengage from the partner during the raging out, but that will most likely ensure that they will keep dysregulated for a long time. Because they want a resolution of something, even if it's unclear to you what they want.

So I think the literature is weak, as it focuses too much on the communication but not on the enforcement and ignores the consequences, which is the most important part. Because what makes the boundary work are the consequences, right?

So let me ask a practical question. Let's suppose my wife has severely violated my boundary. She has screamed badmouthing me while keeping our door open, making sure neighbors from all other apartments will hear her. But this is part of an abusive behavior that only happens when she is dysregulated, so it's pointless to talk it out at the moment. I need to wait for her to switch into a normal temper before even attempting to talk about it. More than that, I need to wait until she is clearly trying to reconnect with me.

Finally, I succeed in talking to her about it. Because of her very rigid thoughts, she remains silent while I talk, showing some contempt. I'm ok with her silence, because I know she will defend her behavior if she talks. So she is just avoiding a peacebreaker. But then, I have to communicate to her the consequence. What should it be?

The only thing that crosses my mind is to step back from the intimate relationship (not cuddle together). But if that has already been done, then the next consequence might be to not touch her. If that's also already implemented, then perhaps not even talk to her like friends. And if that is still not enough, then it's time for separation and probably moving out.

Is that how we are supposed to make the BPD partners respect our boundaries?

If yes, then once the boundary is in place, how long should it last? Should it have a predetermined duration, such as one month? Should it last forever if the boundary violation keeps happening?

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[Pook075]

Is that how we are supposed to make the BPD partners respect our boundaries?

If yes, then once the boundary is in place, how long should it last? Should it have a predetermined duration, such as one month? Should it last forever if the boundary violation keeps happening?

A boundary is for you, made by you, and has nothing to do with anyone else.

For instance, I hate anchovies.  You and I are at dinner and you say, "Try the anchovies."  I say no thanks.  You try to persuade me in a variety of ways, but the bottom line is that I have already chosen before the conversation even started.  I'm doing the thing that's best for me.

A boundary within your home could be to stop arguing completely.  If your spouse begins to yell, step one should always be to try calming her down.  She's dysregulated and her words don't necessarily match her feelings, so you show compassion and understanding instead of arguing back.

Let's say that doesn't work.  Step two would be to withdraw.  This is just like the anchovies...I'm not doing it no matter what...so if I can't de-escalate the situation with words, I'll do it with action.  Maybe I go for a walk around the neighborhood, maybe I say I'm going to visit family for a few days; I'll do whatever I have to do in order to avoid a direct confrontation.  Again though, just like in step one I'm doing it with compassion and patience.

Let's say that doesn't work either and the situation turns violent as I try to leave.  Now I'm looking for outside intervention, possibly even calling 9-1-1 if necessary to seek an involuntary hold for a psych evaluation.  Even if things go this far though, I'm still doing everything I can with love and empathy. 

In other words, this isn't a punishment, it's a compassionate response to help someone that's suffering from mental illness.

As you enforce boundaries over time, it becomes very clear and predictable that arguing, threats, and violence will lead to very predictable results.  One of two things will happen at that point; the relationship fails or the pattern of communication changes in positive ways. 

Again though, and I can't say this enough, BPD dysfunction stems from the fear of abandonment.  Showing love and compassion while strengthening the relationship builds trust and allows the person to calm down and refocus.  That should always be the goal, to actually help them through loving them.

[Rowdy]

This is a very difficult one. With a pwBPD all logic and reason goes out the window. To use your example of shouting, I had kind of forgotten the extent of it in my household, but looking back there was a lot of shouting on my ex’s behalf.

During the first decade of our relationship, where we lived our neighbours were very loud and always shouting, so to me it wasn’t so much of an issue if my wife raised her voice. I probably shouted back in response.

During the next half of our relationship we had moved to a quieter area, and our neighbours were much quieter.
This led to me having a boundary that I’d not had before, about the shouting. She had a habit that used to annoy me, where she would leave the room I was in, go upstairs even, and continue to try and have a conversation with me that would ultimately lead to her shouting around the house.

Now, many times this wasn’t her getting dysregulated and blowing up shouting and screaming, it was just her trying to continue a conversation. If I wasn’t able to follow her around the house, or just plain couldn’t be bothered to do so, when she came back in the room I was in I would calmly explain that I will not shout from downstairs to her while she is upstairs.

This went on for a decade or more, but no matter how calmly I would explain I am not shouting, do you think she ever took that on board? I never had or enforced many boundaries but that was one of them, but made no difference to her whatsoever.

[SuperDaddy]

Hi Pook075 ,

Do you have the experience that I described in my original post? It doesn't look like you do. I checked your very first message, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like your former wife was not trying to destroy your life, and instead she withdrew and ran away, right? I think your advice may fit well with your experience but not mine. And there are some things that I disagree with.

A boundary will never be about you only. Because it will always affect your partner in some way. And it must, because otherwise it won't be effective at all. Let me give an example. You want to leave the chat every time she offends you. If you leave, she will feel it. So you set an AI to keep talking to her after she has left so that she doesn't feel it. The problem there is that you have allowed her to create an unrealistic expectation about your attention, and next time it will be even harder to end the conversation.

But let's suppose you'll be honest with her, so instead of using AI, you try to communicate it nicely, with compassion, hoping that she will accept it (not get too angry). That may work with most BPD wives on most occasions, but in some cases, depending on her emotional state and motives, she will be so frantic about it that she won't be listening to you at all, and you won't be able to convince her, so she will get angry anyway, and that can escalate to self-harm or husband-harm. If you are both in the same house, then it will be too easy to just jump on your back and not allow you to sleep. Do you get it?

You did not say anything about enforcing boundaries, except in the end when you talked about calling 911. But that's like outsourcing the boundary enforcement to the government. That won't be an option unless she is putting someone's life at risk and you can prove it.

Stating that "BPD dysfunction stems from the fear of abandonment" may apply to your experience, but it certainly does not apply to all. The "frantic efforts to avoid abandonment" criterion from the DSM is not even mandatory; it is optional. The core symptom is actually the emotional instability. This is why in the UK and Europe, BPD is often called Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder (EUPD), which is an official term.

Anyway, my point is that the person with BPD may get triggered by any kind of "No" response that they get, depending on the interpretation that they do.

Let me give you a futile example. A couple of days ago, my wife heard the kids asking me for a coffee candy, and I gave one to each. So my wife asked me for a candy as well. I said "No", because she had been attacking me verbally for the entire day. I was not arguing back to her about anything, because I don't want the kids to hear any discussion. But still, she managed to get angry at me for saying "No". She got so angry, she got re-triggered and started it all over again.

The same happened today when she was preparing to go to therapy and asked me to put the power bank in the bag. I said "No, I have already given you the power bank just now, so you can put it in the bag", because it would be very easy for her to do it by herself, and again, she had been offending me badly since the day before. She then started lashing out again, had an anxiety crisis, and missed the therapy, which I had already paid for. All because she got a "No" to a trivial thing.

So should we just say "Yes" to everything? No, that would make us a slave and perhaps an enabler as well. What she needs is to set a boundary that she can't cross over. But I don't see how to do this when living together. Unless police and the judge are enforcing limits for her on your behalf.

Does that make sense?