I feel insane guilt

[stevemcduck]

I was with my pwbpd for 6 years with one major 6 month break up period at the 5 year mark so we had been back together 6 months. I said something that triggered jealously in her and she attacked me. I was cut and bleeding bad, I reacted badly and grabbed her and asked is she wanted to know what it felt like to be beaten. the fear in her face won't leave me. I didnt hurt her but I threw her aside hard onto the floor. I was injured and bleeding badly. I acted out of fear, adrenaline and previous mental traumas from there relationship. I left the house but we had both been drinking and I drove off and was arrested. she was also arrested and evicted from my home and released on bail with instruction to not contact me. that was the last time I saw her, prior to that incident we were having such a fun loving night. I reached out to say my part and apologise for me part but it was read but not replied to. she sent a text when I first left the house saying I was scary and a different man and that she is scared of me. bear in mind im soaked with blood and not a mark on her. I know I need to get out but I feel such guilt for scaring her and I cant even make it right with her. im feeling so so low.

I still love her and want to talk to her.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[ForeverDad]

As much as you are inclined, even impelled, to want to reach out and contact her, wisdom says... Stop, pause and give yourself time to recover, not just from your injuries but from the impact of years of living with a dysfunctional and unhealthy relationship.

Note what the objective authorities did... They told her - possibly even ordered her - not to contact you.  It only makes sense that you reciprocate and not contact her.  Distance apart is a protection for both of you.

Now is a time for you to listen to your brain (and the counsel of objective others).  In time your heart will catch up and accept this is/was a dysfunctional and unhealthy relationship.  Might there be a future?  Unless and until you both work on your own issues, it would be best to respect the orders in place to limit or avoid more "incidents".

[Pook075]

I'm so sorry that you're going through this and it sounds like an incredibly scary night. 

I had a similar incident in my marriage after being hit and attacked too many times to count.  I'd say, "If you keep hitting me, eventually I'm going to hit you back."  It was never my intention but when it happens over and over again in fits of hysteria, eventually something's going to give.  One evening she attacked me and was punching and clawing at my face in a frenzy.  Without even thinking, I slapped her back and it knocked her down.  It ate at me for a very long time.  She never hit me again though and I was thankful that the violence was over.  Not too many years after that, she'd start getting into fights with our teenage BPD daughter...they'd explode and attack each other.

With my BPD ex and I, the police were never called.  This was almost 20 years ago and I'm still ashamed of slapping her to this day.  It never should have happened and I hate that I had that moment of weakness, but through time I also see it in a different lens today.  What was supposed to happen?  That she attacked me every time we disagreed, my face gets scratched up, the house gets wrecked from her tantrums and we just did that for the rest of our lives? 

I couldn't see then what I see now; I was in an abusive, unhealthy relationship.  Nobody is meant to take abuse like that and there's a decent chance that it would have continued to escalate.  Just earlier that week, she had thrown a coffee cup and a fork at my head in rapid succession...she just barely missed as I dodged them.  Why?  Because I was washing the dishes and it angered her because she said earlier that she'd wash the dishes.

I hate talking about any of this.  I hate violence and I hate even having these memories.  I hate that I finally slapped her back.  But at the same time, if it helps someone else see that this sort of things is real and it's completely toxic, then I'd rather talk it out. 

Looking back, what I did wrong wasn't slapping someone that was attacking me for the 20th time (or however many times, it happened multiple times weekly).  It was being in that relationship in the first place and allowing the violence to be a daily possibility.  I deserved better than that, our kids deserved better than that, and you can't just keep abusing someone indefinitely without something else happening.  Eventually, it is going to escalate past the point of no return.

I also wonder with my BPD daughter, did she learn to attack others whenever she became upset because she saw mom do it at an early age?  I don't know.  That stuff just doesn't belong in a home in any way, shape, or form though.  It's a cancer and it spreads everywhere.  Violence of any kind is not okay and it is a clear sign that everyone involved needs to take time away from the relationship to recenter and reset.

[ForeverDad]

It might be a good time to review what we call the FOG of BPD... Fear, Obligation, Guilt.

Guilt is hitting you hard right now.  What I shoulda, coulda...  What's done is done.  It's in the past, can't be changed, the key is what you are determined you will do - or not do - going forward.

Do you owe her an apology?  Is one deserved, considering how you yourself were attacked first?  Since you are to have no contact with her and the relationship appears ended, contacting her to offer an apology or remorse doesn't seem possible or even unwise.  After all, the court instructed her not to contact you and in order for her not to violate the court's instructions then you likewise mustn't contact her... even if you feel you need to "clear the air" or seek closure.  (When dealing with BPD relationships, closure is generally not possible.  Likely you will have to Gift yourself the Closure you seek.)

Ponder this:  This is more about how you view yourself.  You now know what it takes to drive you to react and defend yourself.  Just avoid any future scenarios where that can be allowed to occur again.

Now a legal aspect.  My lawyer told me his first task when hired after a domestic dispute was to SIT on his client.  Why?  (1) You have no obligation to confess anything, that's your 5th Amendment right not to incriminate yourself.  (2) Anything you say might make your lawyer's efforts to help you be much harder to accomplish - and trigger even bigger lawyer bills.

So if you feel that you must apologize, what can you say?  How about limiting any apologies to how you hurt her feelings.  Last I heard, courts in most countries won't find you guilty of hurting feelings.

[stevemcduck]

Thanks so much for the support guys. we are in the uk. from a legal standpoint there is no ongoing court case I dropped the charges. the police said it was clearly me that was the victim, I was worried about that with me being male and a lot older than her.

I sent a closure message and wished her well but made it clear it was over 2 days after the incident. It was not replied to but she was ordered not to contact me and I in hindsight maybe shouldn't have sent that message.

my issue now is that I cant seem to stop worrying about her. I do love and care about her and I know it was because of her condition, I know I shouldn't think this way but I feel addicted and so so sad. I care for her a great deal.

[Pook075]

Thanks so much for the support guys. we are in the uk. from a legal standpoint there is no ongoing court case I dropped the charges. the police said it was clearly me that was the victim, I was worried about that with me being male and a lot older than her.

I sent a closure message and wished her well but made it clear it was over 2 days after the incident. It was not replied to but she was ordered not to contact me and I in hindsight maybe shouldn't have sent that message.

my issue now is that I cant seem to stop worrying about her. I do love and care about her and I know it was because of her condition, I know I shouldn't think this way but I feel addicted and so so sad. I care for her a great deal.

If it makes you feel any better, she might reach out eventually and you can have a final conversation (or try to reconnect).  The time apart is almost certainly good though because it's an abrupt change in her life and she has to now face her decisions.  Maybe she does feel like a victim, that's common with BPD, but the police saw it differently and a part of her will know deep down that she crossed a line that should never be crossed.

Like you said, there's no long-term charges so there's nothing stopping her from reaching out.  She could be scared to right now for fear that she'd get arrested again.  That's probably a good thing too.

My question is- what are you doing with this time to recenter and take care of you?  Whether you rekindle the relationship or not, you must get a better handle on what happened so you're more prepared for the future.  What could you have done differently (walk away, change the topic, try to calm her down, etc)?  Use this time to reflect and learn from what happened.  If it's meant to be down the road, then you'll get there and be better equipped for it.

[stevemcduck]

Hi Pook

this is the second time we have broken up, I was on here a lot about a year ago. im not sure if I you can remember but she left out of nowhere and ran to London and kept me on the hook for 3 months and then we were in no contact for 3 months after that and then I reached out and we got back together.

this is when I learned about bpd and I have tried a great deal to implement what I learned.

what I have come to realise is that to make it work I cant ever share anything that brings her shame. and basically would need to shrink myself to keep the relationship.

I have no idea what I want. I know I cant really go back to her as this is now physically dangerous for me and went al emotionally. but I do want things to somehow work. I really do admire the angel inside of her. but that demon os also there and its scary

[Pook075]

Hi Pook

this is the second time we have broken up, I was on here a lot about a year ago. im not sure if I you can remember but she left out of nowhere and ran to London and kept me on the hook for 3 months and then we were in no contact for 3 months after that and then I reached out and we got back together.

this is when I learned about bpd and I have tried a great deal to implement what I learned.

what I have come to realise is that to make it work I cant ever share anything that brings her shame. and basically would need to shrink myself to keep the relationship.

I have no idea what I want. I know I cant really go back to her as this is now physically dangerous for me and went al emotionally. but I do want things to somehow work. I really do admire the angel inside of her. but that demon os also there and its scary

Yeah, it's so incredibly tough and this is all still so fresh for you.  I definitely remember your story from last year and I hoped that your absence meant things were working out.  I'm so sorry things took a turn.

Just give this time.  In a few weeks, you'll have a different outlook entirely.  In a few months, you'll see things different once again.  Right now, you need to heal emotionally and that's always the #1 thing in these types of situations.  The relationship part will work itself out in time (one way or the other).

[wantmorepeace]

this is when I learned about bpd and I have tried a great deal to implement what I learned.

This may just be me, but sometimes I feel like my continuous efforts to implement the DBT skills I learned made me feel more responsible than I was for things that happened (as in, "if only I'd done better with my DBT"). At the end of the day, we're all doing our best and we can't cure or control.

[stevemcduck]

Il give a full context of the relationship so far.

I was in a 5-year on/off relationship with a woman who I believe quiet BPD.. The relationship was extremely intense. both emotionally and physically. When it was good, it was the best I’ve ever experienced. When it was bad, it was genuinely damaging.

We broke up once before earlier last year. That breakup was messy but not violent. She moved away, we went long distance, and for about 3 months she was very cold, avoidant, and I now know she was talking to other men and not being honest with me. Eventually she ghosted me completely.

I reached back out after a 6 week long period of no contact, and slowly we re-established communication. It was very light at first, practical messages, then a bit of warmth. I didn’t push too hard. Eventually I sent her something quite meaningful (a book I wrote about us, and that triggered a full emotional reconnection. She came back strongly, said she loved me, and we got back together.

When we got back together, things felt amazing again at first. Very loving, very connected, very intense. But the underlying issues never really went away.

There were a few major problems:

I always had a gut feeling something wasn’t right, especially around her interactions with other men (including her boss).

She was very good at explaining things in a way that made me doubt myself

There were periods of intense love, followed by distance, coldness, or strange behaviour

My anxiety got worse over time, especially at night. I started getting mini panic attacks just as I was falling asleep

The biggest rupture before the end was when I saw her phone. It confirmed a lot of my suspicions, she had been talking to other men, saying things about me that weren’t true, and generally not being honest. That completely broke my trust.

Despite that, I stayed. The next 5 months were honestly torture. I loved her deeply, but I didn’t know what was real anymore. She could be incredibly loving and sweet, but I had this constant confusion in my head.

Then everything escalated recently.

We had an argument after I had been drinking and I brought up something that made her jealous. It spiralled quickly. She became physical first (hit me), and I reacted badly. I grabbed her by the throat (not choking, but enough to scare her), called her names, and threw her to the ground. I left the house straight after because I didn’t like what was happening and I didn’t trust myself in that moment.

She texted me saying she wanted to love in my house for 2 moths without me interfering and because of how badly I treat her I should allow that. she also said I strangled her first which was a lie and thats why she hit me but im 100% certain that was not the case, I was sitting on the sofa and she was standing up when the attack began. she said also in the text she was scared of me. which is insane ive never ever dont anything intimidating to her. also this was the first time she has ever played hands on me.

I made the stupid decision to drive drunk and got arrested. While I was in custody, I found out she had also been arrested. The police asked if I wanted to press charges and I refused. They did however remove her from my home (where she had lived the 5 month we were back together. and 4 years in the previous relationship.

After that, I sent her a long message taking accountability for my part, explaining what happened from my side, and essentially saying goodbye. I didn’t blame her, but I did acknowledge both of our issues. She read it and didn’t reply.

Since then, there’s been no contact (I’m currently about a week into no contact).

She’s back in London now and posting on social media like nothing happened. Mostly aesthetic stuff, some sad/void-type reposts, but nothing directly about me.

What I’m struggling with is:

I know the relationship was unhealthy and even dangerous at the end

I know there was lying, manipulation, and physical escalation

But I still feel a very strong pull toward her

I keep thinking about getting her back, even though logically I know it might not be right

Last time we got back together after about 3–4 (1.5 total no contact) months of space and a careful re-entry from me. This time feels more severe.

I’m currently doing therapy and working on myself, my codependence and anxious attachment style.

Id like to open up contact again. and explain my healing journey and say I would be open to a slow controlled reconnection if she was willing to get therapy.

Am I being delusional thinking this could be repaired again? Or is there a realistic path if handled correctly?

Im wondering how long to wait until I make contact. im ghosted but not blocked. im thinking 3 months but that might be too long. however this was way more severe and I think she has bale conditions not to contact me but I have no idea how long for. this time I dont have the advantage of the book or anything like that. does anyone have any idea how I could reconnect?

[stevemcduck]

I realise how crazy this all sounds, but we really do have a real connection, she has my name tattooed on her and I wore her an entire book. when its good its very very good

[Pook075]

I realise how crazy this all sounds, but we really do have a real connection, she has my name tattooed on her and I wore her an entire book. when its good its very very good

Hey Steve.  I guess I'd ask what the story's like between the stories.  You were together for awhile, it got ugly and ended.  Six months later, you were back.  You also had trust issues and they were somewhat validated.

How big of a deal is the trust issues?  And how often did things turn into an argument that had a chance of turning violent?

Could you get her back?  Absolutely...at least in time.  But how do you avoid repeating the past?  How do you learn to trust her when it sounds like for most of the 2nd relationship, you weren't sure if you even wanted to be there?

I'm playing devil's advocate here, of course, but these are important things to really think through.  Thankfully, you'll have some time before speaking with her again.  Really dig deep and find the answer- what we say about your love life doesn't matter.  You know it's a harmful relationship and you know you love her anyway.  Figure out how that fits together.

[ForeverDad]

Have you researched "Stockholm Syndrome" or similar relationship dilemmas?  You may not have been a literal prisoner or hostage and brainwashed, but emotionally you became deeply invested in the relationship.  Your ex may have been able to turn her feelings and loyalties on and off, but a reasonably normal person like you can't do that.

Also, ponder the various aspects of how you're "grieving a loss".  A handful of stages are involved, you can bounce back and forth among them but eventually you need to end up at Acceptance of What Is.

Over on our Tools & Skills Workshops board we have a topic Grieving our Losses which discusses that it is a winding path back and forth before we Accept and fully deal with the loss, in this case, of a doomed relationship.

[stevemcduck]

Hey Steve.  I guess I'd ask what the story's like between the stories.  You were together for awhile, it got ugly and ended.  Six months later, you were back.  You also had trust issues and they were somewhat validated.

How big of a deal is the trust issues?  And how often did things turn into an argument that had a chance of turning violent?

Could you get her back?  Absolutely...at least in time.  But how do you avoid repeating the past?  How do you learn to trust her when it sounds like for most of the 2nd relationship, you weren't sure if you even wanted to be there?

I'm playing devil's advocate here, of course, but these are important things to really think through.  Thankfully, you'll have some time before speaking with her again.  Really dig deep and find the answer- what we say about your love life doesn't matter.  You know it's a harmful relationship and you know you love her anyway.  Figure out how that fits together.

That’s fair and probably the biggest question. The trust issues were a huge deal because they weren’t imagined, they were based on things I later found out were true. So it wasn’t just insecurity, it was injury. And that’s part of what made the second round so hard, I loved her, but I never really felt safe in it. Arguments didn’t often turn physically violent until the end, but there was a lot of emotional instability and confusion underneath.

Going forward I have switched to a therapist that specialises in trauma recovery. also. am working with a therapist on my codependence and anxious attachment style weekly. I really am doing all I can right now to work on and improve myself. hopefully this is how I avoid repeating the bast. by becoming stronger and more mentally resilient. and I would think if she wanted to come back she would be willing to start healing journey of her own. my biggest question is, how long do I leave it before making contact? my gut tells me 3 - 3 and a half months, but I do worry she forms a new attachment in that time so its a big risk.

[stevemcduck]

Have you researched "Stockholm Syndrome" or similar relationship dilemmas?  You may not have been a literal prisoner or hostage and brainwashed, but emotionally you became deeply invested in the relationship.  Your ex may have been able to turn her feelings and loyalties on and off, but a reasonably normal person like you can't do that.

Also, ponder the various aspects of how you're "grieving a loss".  A handful of stages are involved, you can bounce back and forth among them but eventually you need to end up at Acceptance of What Is.

Over on our Tools & Skills Workshops board we have a topic Grieving our Losses which discusses that it is a winding path back and forth before we Accept and fully deal with the loss, in this case, of a doomed relationship.

Yes I have researched Stockholm syndrome and trauma bonding. il take e a look at the post you recommended too. I know a lot of this im just in a world of pain right now.

[Pook075]

That’s fair and probably the biggest question. The trust issues were a huge deal because they weren’t imagined, they were based on things I later found out were true. So it wasn’t just insecurity, it was injury. And that’s part of what made the second round so hard, I loved her, but I never really felt safe in it. Arguments didn’t often turn physically violent until the end, but there was a lot of emotional instability and confusion underneath.

Going forward I have switched to a therapist that specialises in trauma recovery. also. am working with a therapist on my codependence and anxious attachment style weekly. I really am doing all I can right now to work on and improve myself. hopefully this is how I avoid repeating the bast. by becoming stronger and more mentally resilient. and I would think if she wanted to come back she would be willing to start healing journey of her own. my biggest question is, how long do I leave it before making contact? my gut tells me 3 - 3 and a half months, but I do worry she forms a new attachment in that time so its a big risk.

Well, if she did end up with someone else, then you know that it wasn't meant to be.  You did find out that she was flirting with others even when you were together...which brings us right back to the trust factor.  Trust has to be there to avoid doing this all over again.

I wish you luck but like I said, time is on your side right now.  I know it doesn't feel like it, but your thoughts on this will change in a month or three months from now.  You'll gain clarity and see more of the bigger picture, good and bad.  Just give it time to get to that place.

[ForeverDad]

You'll gain clarity and see more of the bigger picture, good and bad.  Just give it time to get to that place.

We need time for recovery.  Your ex, as disordered as she is, is able to flit to other relationships with little effort.  Unfortunately, they're likely to be unhealthy rebound relationships.

That's why we are not encouraging you to go out and quickly seek your own rebound relationship.  It wouldn't be healthy for you.  You need to Mourn and allow Time to recover your equilibrium.

We here suffered much from our failed and dysfunctional relationships.  Time heals, even though scars remain.  They too will fade in time.  Since we didn't get Closure from the other, we had to accept that we'd therefore have to Gift ourselves Closure.